151 réponses à ce sujet

[Troubleshooter11]

If they want to protect organic life from runaway synthetic life, why dont they just come in and warn us about the dangers and tell us not to make AI's. And if we do, they destroy our creations and anyone stupid enough to make AI's.

This is like shooting a teenager as soon as he turns 16 because teenagers are bound to do stupid stuff that gets them or others killed.

[ninjaNumber1]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

You realize the other ships survived, right?

He crashed because he was in the relay at the time.

At least he got what he deserved

[wright1978]

Crewmates transporting themselves to Normandy is a stupid plothole.
Joker deserting in the middle of a battle is stupid and out of character.

[Kyrick]

gxkrizard wrote...

Imagine that you see big explosion going in your direction. I mean the one that can destroy Earth, before Crucible even shoots. If it is harmless, then Shepard probably is alive (at least that's what Joker may think) and can be saved later. But if it can destroy the ship, then it's Joker's responsibility to make sure his crew survive. It's not like he need to stay there and wait for death, because Shepard isn't on board. So he escapes through mass relay, and then we know what's happening.

Prove me wrong.

A logical fallacy.  YOU are the one that is making the claim, thus YOU are the one that needs to demonstrate your case.  You cannot simply say something with flimsy reasoning and then say, "Prove me wrong".  Logic and reasoning don't work that way.

Furthermore, Joker apparently had time to swoop down and collect various crew members that were on the mission with me, right under Harbinger's nose, then flee the battle scene.  All without getting a scratch on the ship.  Then he also managed to get to the Mass Relay, plot a jump, power up the drive, then escape and be in the middle of a jump when the blast hits him.

This is a gigantic plot hole and one that cannot simply be ignored, IF this is the ending.

[Merengues 1945]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

gxkrizard wrote...

Imagine that you see big explosion going in your direction. I mean the one that can destroy Earth, before Crucible even shoots. If it is harmless, then Shepard probably is alive (at least that's what Joker may think) and can be saved later. But if it can destroy the ship, then it's Joker's responsibility to make sure his crew survive. It's not like he need to stay there and wait for death, because Shepard isn't on board. So he escapes through mass relay, and then we know what's happening.

Prove me wrong.

So instead of landing it on the same planet where everyone else is and can meet up with them later, he flys however many hundreds of thousands of k's away to charon relay. To go to another system. Also, not only does he get to the relay so fast, but how are the people I ran into the beam with, with him?

It's actually 7.529.000.000 kms... several minutes even on FTL flight... and also when they hit the relay, they became unreachable to the wave, there's no real way for the wave to be a lot faster than the Normandy with the Reaper IFF.

From Earth's orbit to Earth's surface is less than 500 kms... if they landed to pick up the crew members in Hammer, it's not logic to stay there or going to find Shepard?

[ninjaNumber1]

Troubleshooter11 wrote...

If they want to protect organic life from runaway synthetic life, why dont they just come in and warn us about the dangers and tell us not to make AI's. And if we do, they destroy our creations and anyone stupid enough to make AI's.

This is like shooting a teenager as soon as he turns 16 because teenagers are bound to do stupid stuff that gets them or others killed.

Yep, I asked this very question on a thread even before the game came out. ME3 is the dumbest ending ever. But there are no laws against stupid endings. So... we just have to wait till someone who can do something about this realizes themselves what madness was implied in the plot haha.

[ninjaNumber1]

wright1978 wrote...

Crewmates transporting themselves to Normandy is a stupid plothole.
Joker deserting in the middle of a battle is stupid and out of character.

Maybe they will make some DLC to justify the ending haha. Joker gets possessed...  or some other bizzare plot that leads to more holes

Modifié par ninjaNumber1, 13 mars 2012 - 09:27 .

[Ricvenart]

He shouldn't have been fleeing from the pulse to a relay, if anything he should have gone to ground in case the Crucible knocks out all tech (like he should be expecting it to for Reapers, even more so because the Normandy and Edi have reaper Tech in them). Instead he pushes the ship so hard it's sheered in half presumably killing alot of the crew you claim he has responsiblitity to keep alive.

[AtreiyaN7]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

Based on what we learned in Mass Effect 1 and 2, Joker isn't a coward. He'll fight to the death, he would never run away.

You're proven wrong.

The destruction of an entire star system by the Alpha Relay shows that it's really NOT a good idea to stick around when it looks like the mass relay is about to undergo a catastrophic failure. My operating hypothesis is that the energy readings made it appear to Joker (and anyone else in the area) that there would be an explosion similar to that of the Alpha Relay. Only it didn't turn out that way because the massive amounts of energy channeled through the relays are largely dispersed by either destroying the synthetics or reshaping all life in the destroy/synthesis endings. This probably sucked out enough energy from the equation that although the relays exploded, they did not result in catastrophic failures like that of the Alpha Relay.

But how would Joker know that? Based on the Alpha Relay incident in Arrival, I would guess that Joker made the call that he needed to save as many people as he could and at least try to get away as quickly as possible (EDIT: possibly scooping up the crew members who were with Shepard before leaving). Didn't you have the conversation with Joker where he blames himself for what happened to Shepard in ME2? He feels that because he refused to leave the Normandy, Shepard died because of him - all because Shepard had to go back and drag him out the Normandy's cockpit when Joker refused to recognize that the situation was hopeless. I think this had an impact on Joker and that in the end he realizes that sometimes you have to let go and do what's best for others, not what you necessarily want to do.

I'm sure that Joker wanted to stay behind and try to get Shepard and pull off some sort of piloting miracle, but that wasn't realistically going to happen. So is he going to pull a repeat of ME2 and do the equivalent of staying in the cockpit again, letting everyone else die this time, or does he do what's right for them? I do want more exposition about the whole Normandy thing, but I don't think Joker acted like a coward - I think he tried to make the best choice he could to save as many people as he could.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 13 mars 2012 - 09:51 .

[Johnny Zhou]

The fight is on Earth, and all squad members should be on the ground. How the hell did they get on Normandy in the middle of battle?

[gxkrizard]

After Harbinger blast, they were ordered to retreat. Then when Shepard was talking with IM and that AI, Normandy had a lot of time to pick the rest of the squad. Why? Well, maybe just because Reapers were about to kill them otherwise.
I assume your crew somehow survive the Harbringer attacks, but that's not impossible.
While on board, they already knew Shepard and Anderson made it to the beam.
And when Crucible explode, they just tried to run away as every one else would. Because if that explosion was destructive, giving their lifes away wasn't anything better than trying to survive.
And if it wasn't, then they might assume that Shepard is okay and decided to come for him when it's safe.

Modifié par gxkrizard, 13 mars 2012 - 09:56 .

[devSin]

Maike91 wrote...

After Thessia Joker says that Anderson told him to take care of Shep. He would never leave.  And it's not only Joker. Does anyone really think Garrus or Liara or any other squadmember would just leave Shep there?

Not only this, but they have nowhere to go. Nowhere.

These are the end times. If the Reapers are not stopped at Earth, there is nothing else to be done. You're not going to fall back and regroup. There are no reinforcements. There is no hope. The galaxy as it exists is over.

Every single person who went to Earth gave their life in advance to stop the Reapers. They are not backing away until they succeed or until they stop breathing.

Joker and your squad would not abandon Earth, and they would not abandon Shepard.

[FarynUEA]

gxkrizard wrote...

After Harbinger blast, they were ordered to retreat. Then when Shepard was talking with IM and that AI, Normandy had a lot of time to pick the rest of the squad. Why? Well, maybe just because Reapers were about to kill them otherwise.
I assume your crew somehow survive the Harbringer attacks, but that's not impossible.
While on board, they already knew Shepard and Anderson made it to the beam.
And when Crucible explode, they just tried to run away as every one else would. Because if that explosion was destructive, giving their lifes away wasn't anything better than trying to survive.
And if it wasn't, then they might assume that Shepard is okay and decided to come for him when it's safe.

First, Coats ordered that retreat groundside, NOT hackett!

Second, the Normandy was involved in a space battle at that time, as was everyone else. I doubt Joker would think "Hey, I better extract my team" (and IF there was an order to retreat Joker MAY indeed retreat, but not pick up crew first, THEN retreat ... that would make absolutely! no sense)

Then, we have the colored wave. By now its to late to run!

Joker would not run just because it COULD be dangerous

[gxkrizard]

As I said, after making Crucible work, fight was over. More importantly, he wasn't escaping the fight. He was escaping the explosion. And I mean Crucible explosion all the time, not the Crucible blast (which, ironically, destroy Normandy at last).

[TheRisenStar]

I keep hearing that ignoring and contradicting previous themes and established characterization is so totally edgy and artful.

It must have been that.

[Fawx9]

gxkrizard wrote...

As I said, after making Crucible work, fight was over. More importantly, he wasn't escaping the fight. He was escaping the explosion. And I mean Crucible explosion all the time, not the Crucible blast (which, ironically, destroy Normandy at last).

There is not enough time to get to pluto by the time he sees the explosion.

He is by Earth at the very least because he somehow managed to pick up your squad. There is no way be beats the energy beam to the relay.

[gxkrizard]

FarynUEA wrote...

gxkrizard wrote...

After Harbinger blast, they were ordered to retreat. Then when Shepard was talking with IM and that AI, Normandy had a lot of time to pick the rest of the squad. Why? Well, maybe just because Reapers were about to kill them otherwise.
I assume your crew somehow survive the Harbringer attacks, but that's not impossible.
While on board, they already knew Shepard and Anderson made it to the beam.
And when Crucible explode, they just tried to run away as every one else would. Because if that explosion was destructive, giving their lifes away wasn't anything better than trying to survive.
And if it wasn't, then they might assume that Shepard is okay and decided to come for him when it's safe.

First, Coats ordered that retreat groundside, NOT hackett!

Second, the Normandy was involved in a space battle at that time, as was everyone else. I doubt Joker would think "Hey, I better extract my team" (and IF there was an order to retreat Joker MAY indeed retreat, but not pick up crew first, THEN retreat ... that would make absolutely! no sense)

Then, we have the colored wave. By now its to late to run!

Joker would not run just because it COULD be dangerous

What if he was ordered to rescue the ground team? Then explosion happens, and he decided to get away because he actually cares about his crew. And again: when the explosion happened, war was already over. Their job was only to protect Crucible, nothing more.

[gxkrizard]

Fawx9 wrote...

gxkrizard wrote...

As I said, after making Crucible work, fight was over. More importantly, he wasn't escaping the fight. He was escaping the explosion. And I mean Crucible explosion all the time, not the Crucible blast (which, ironically, destroy Normandy at last).

There is not enough time to get to pluto by the time he sees the explosion.

He is by Earth at the very least because he somehow managed to pick up your squad. There is no way be beats the energy beam to the relay.

We don't know how much time was Crucible preparing that blast.

[The Angry One]

gxkrizard wrote...
What if he was ordered to rescue the ground team? Then explosion happens, and he decided to get away because he actually cares about his crew. And again: when the explosion happened, war was already over. Their job was only to protect Crucible, nothing more.

Even if we accept all of that, which we don't... what part of "It's not Joker's decision to make" do you not understand?
Hackett is the one who tells him to stay or go. If Hackett has not given an order and is still alive, then Joker cannot under any circumstances take it upon himself to flee the scene, especially as a pulse from the Crucible is EXACTLY what they expected.

[bas_kon]

Yes, my dead LI going out of the Normandy isn't a plothole either!! Lol We all love magic!!

Edit: ^ Agreed with the post above, it's call deserting and it's a crime.

Modifié par bas_kon, 13 mars 2012 - 10:31 .

[gmboy902]

How did he get to the relay that fast? How were the squadmates that were just being blown up by Harbinger right beside me suddenly on board? And Joker wouldn't leave a fight for anything. I just think they added it in there to coordinate with the music or something.

[kewken]

You are right people it is not a plothole, it was his plan all along http://social.biowar...5/index/9841667

[SilencedScream]

The Angry One wrote...

gxkrizard wrote...
What if he was ordered to rescue the ground team? Then explosion happens, and he decided to get away because he actually cares about his crew. And again: when the explosion happened, war was already over. Their job was only to protect Crucible, nothing more.

Even if we accept all of that, which we don't... what part of "It's not Joker's decision to make" do you not understand?
Hackett is the one who tells him to stay or go. If Hackett has not given an order and is still alive, then Joker cannot under any circumstances take it upon himself to flee the scene, especially as a pulse from the Crucible is EXACTLY what they expected.

This.
Not to mention, why weren't the other two of Shepard's team on his heels? The ORDER/COMMAND given was to rush the beam in order to get AS MANY troops as possible through, because they assumed they were going to be put in the Citadel where more reaper units (husks, cannibals, etc.) would be. They thought they would be fighting their way through.

[Furluge]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

You realize the other ships survived, right?

He crashed because he was in the relay at the time.

Have you actually seen any ships in the cinematic. Because I went through and re-watched them when having a discussion with a friend and I couldn't find anything other than reaper ships in the cinematics... meaning I can't confirm it's harmless to ships.

For all I know every other ship in the flotilla got destroyed by the multi-colored space-wave magic. Why? Because apparently it does that an the Spacebaby forgot to mention it.

[gxkrizard]

The Angry One wrote...

gxkrizard wrote...
What if he was ordered to rescue the ground team? Then explosion happens, and he decided to get away because he actually cares about his crew. And again: when the explosion happened, war was already over. Their job was only to protect Crucible, nothing more.

Even if we accept all of that, which we don't... what part of "It's not Joker's decision to make" do you not understand?
Hackett is the one who tells him to stay or go. If Hackett has not given an order and is still alive, then Joker cannot under any circumstances take it upon himself to flee the scene, especially as a pulse from the Crucible is EXACTLY what they expected.

That's also possible. Maybe he ordered everyone to do whatever they can to get out of this alive just when the Citadel's arms were opening.