151 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

gxkrizard wrote...
That's also possible. Maybe he ordered everyone to do whatever they can to get out of this alive just when the Citadel's arms were opening.

Absolutely not. Firstly, he has no reason to. Secondly, Hackett has always conducted orderly retreats.
Even when the Reapers were absolutely reaming the Alliance at the beginning of the game, Hackett organised a retreat, sacrificing two fleets to get the rest to safety.
Hacket would *never* sound an "every ship for itself" command. That's not how you run a fleet.

But even if we accept that Joker just fled, it's still a plot hole! 
Why? Everyone knows the Crucible is going to affect the relay network. So why in god's name would Joker escape the Crucible pulse flee to the Charon relay, which is the target of the Crucible pulse?
Why not FTL jump into the local cluster?

Modifié par The Angry One, 13 mars 2012 - 10:43 .

[Zhijn]

Dosnt the Mass Relay take you from A to B pretty much instantly? So there couldnt have been a chase scene if joker took the normandy through it.

Either way it make little to no sens.

[detroitmechworks]

Because Kai Leng was a character assassin, and we all fell into his cunning trap.

[ninjaNumber1]

gxkrizard wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

gxkrizard wrote...
What if he was ordered to rescue the ground team? Then explosion happens, and he decided to get away because he actually cares about his crew. And again: when the explosion happened, war was already over. Their job was only to protect Crucible, nothing more.

Even if we accept all of that, which we don't... what part of "It's not Joker's decision to make" do you not understand?
Hackett is the one who tells him to stay or go. If Hackett has not given an order and is still alive, then Joker cannot under any circumstances take it upon himself to flee the scene, especially as a pulse from the Crucible is EXACTLY what they expected.

That's also possible. Maybe he ordered everyone to do whatever they can to get out of this alive just when the Citadel's arms were opening.

There's an awful lot of 'maybe', 'possibly' etc

But as the other poster said, all these possibilities seem improbable. When the fight is on, and you are suppossed to rush to the beam, while ground units are under heavy fire by reapers, you are not suppossed to high tail it out of there. That was the last stand, you either FIGHT or you DIE.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

gxkrizard wrote...
What if he was ordered to rescue the ground team?

Just using your question as an example, it's not something personal.

There can be many "What if". We want an answer and the only ones who can give it are the BW writers.

We can all say different things, etc, but until they tell us what happened, we just don't know what happened. There's a gap.

[FarynUEA]

gxkrizard wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

gxkrizard wrote...
What if he was ordered to rescue the ground team? Then explosion happens, and he decided to get away because he actually cares about his crew. And again: when the explosion happened, war was already over. Their job was only to protect Crucible, nothing more.

Even if we accept all of that, which we don't... what part of "It's not Joker's decision to make" do you not understand?
Hackett is the one who tells him to stay or go. If Hackett has not given an order and is still alive, then Joker cannot under any circumstances take it upon himself to flee the scene, especially as a pulse from the Crucible is EXACTLY what they expected.

That's also possible. Maybe he ordered everyone to do whatever they can to get out of this alive just when the Citadel's arms were opening.

So Hackett orders Jokers to break thru the reaper ranks (again!). Joker complies, lands on earth (where exactly ... pls remember, the Normandy II itself is to big to land conventionally ... And I doubt the Spaceport in London is still up), the teams ofc ALL abandoned their posts and went straight for whereever the normandy landed.

I'm sorry to say it, but this are way to many ifs and maybes ...

[gxkrizard]

The Angry One wrote...

gxkrizard wrote...
That's also possible. Maybe he ordered everyone to do whatever they can to get out of this alive just when the Citadel's arms were opening.

Absolutely not. Firstly, he has no reason to. Secondly, Hackett has always conducted orderly retreats.
Even when the Reapers were absolutely reaming the Alliance at the beginning of the game, Hackett organised a retreat, sacrificing two fleets to get the rest to safety.
Hacket would *never* sound an "every ship for itself" command. That's not how you run a fleet.

But even if we accept that Joker just fled, it's still a plot hole! 
Why? Everyone knows the Crucible is going to affect the relay network. So why in god's name would Joker escape the Crucible pulse flee to the Charon relay, which is the target of the Crucible pulse?
Why not FTL jump into the local cluster?

No, they don't know. Noone knows what will happen.

Also, for example, you don't continue to fight when an explosion from nuclear bomb is going to kill you. Especially, when other lifes depends on your decisions.

[The Angry One]

gxkrizard wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

gxkrizard wrote...
That's also possible. Maybe he ordered everyone to do whatever they can to get out of this alive just when the Citadel's arms were opening.

Absolutely not. Firstly, he has no reason to. Secondly, Hackett has always conducted orderly retreats.
Even when the Reapers were absolutely reaming the Alliance at the beginning of the game, Hackett organised a retreat, sacrificing two fleets to get the rest to safety.
Hacket would *never* sound an "every ship for itself" command. That's not how you run a fleet.

But even if we accept that Joker just fled, it's still a plot hole! 
Why? Everyone knows the Crucible is going to affect the relay network. So why in god's name would Joker escape the Crucible pulse flee to the Charon relay, which is the target of the Crucible pulse?
Why not FTL jump into the local cluster?

No, they don't know. Noone knows what will happen.

Also, for example, you don't continue to fight when an explosion from nuclear bomb is going to kill you. Especially, when other lifes depends on your decisions.

Read the reports. They know it will affect the relays. Therefore, Joker booked it to the target of the very thing you say he wants to escape.
Despite the fact that it's not his decision.

This event does not work on any level, at all. Unless we assume that Joker is a coward, a mutineer and an imbecile.

Modifié par The Angry One, 13 mars 2012 - 10:54 .

[Bladewinger]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9872108&lf=8

Have you seen this? 

[Shepard needs a Vacation]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

Based on what we learned in Mass Effect 1 and 2, Joker isn't a coward. He'll fight to the death, he would never run away.

You're proven wrong.

^ this you are wrong and he'd never be ale to get to charon intime if he was over earth, so yeah think before you post

Modifié par Shepard needs a Vacation, 13 mars 2012 - 10:55 .

[The Angry One]

Here's another thought - in the ending, you see Joker look behind him in panic.
Why? There are no rear windows on the Normandy, there are no rear view panels, the only thing behind him is the CIC. So what the hell is he looking at?

Modifié par The Angry One, 13 mars 2012 - 10:57 .

[FarynUEA]

gxkrizard wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

gxkrizard wrote...
That's also possible. Maybe he ordered everyone to do whatever they can to get out of this alive just when the Citadel's arms were opening.

Absolutely not. Firstly, he has no reason to. Secondly, Hackett has always conducted orderly retreats.
Even when the Reapers were absolutely reaming the Alliance at the beginning of the game, Hackett organised a retreat, sacrificing two fleets to get the rest to safety.
Hacket would *never* sound an "every ship for itself" command. That's not how you run a fleet.

But even if we accept that Joker just fled, it's still a plot hole! 
Why? Everyone knows the Crucible is going to affect the relay network. So why in god's name would Joker escape the Crucible pulse flee to the Charon relay, which is the target of the Crucible pulse?
Why not FTL jump into the local cluster?

No, they don't know. Noone knows what will happen.

Also, for example, you don't continue to fight when an explosion from nuclear bomb is going to kill you. Especially, when other lifes depends on your decisions.

Erm ... A. if you see the explosion from a nuclear bomb firsthand, chances are you are to close to do anything anymore

B. These are Soldiers. This is Joker. He did not run when it was 10 seconds to a catastrophic explosion on the Collector Base. Now he abandons Shepard and Earth because the spooky wave scares him?

No!

[gxkrizard]

And I agree there is a lot of assumptions in my theories, but I just want to show you that this can be explained. It requires a lot of luck for our crew, but hell, that's not the first time they have it.

[FarynUEA]

gxkrizard wrote...

And I agree there is a lot of assumptions in my theories, but I just want to show you that this can be explained. It requires a lot of luck for our crew, but hell, that's not the first time they have it.

And this is where you are wrong. The other things they accomplished, they usually planed out (And followed that plan). Was it maybe luck that these plans came together? Maybe! 

But I refuse to believe that Joker or EDI would abandon Shepard, without knowing for a fact he was dead

[fish of doom]

The Angry One wrote...

Here's another thought - in the ending, you see Joker look behind him in panic.
Why? There are no rear windows on the Normandy, there are no rear view panels, the only thing behind him is the CIC. So what the hell is he looking at?

the bioware employee holding a gun to EDI's head in order to get them to comply with such an idiotic part of the script

[ninjaNumber1]

The Angry One wrote...

Here's another thought - in the ending, you see Joker look behind him in panic.
Why? There are no rear windows on the Normandy, there are no rear view panels, the only thing behind him is the CIC. So what the hell is he looking at?

lolz good one.

I am waiting to see someone say 'what if Joker installed a rear view opening' haha

People, its time to stop rationalizing. Occam's Razor in this case means BW screwed up!

[Davies993]

gxkrizard wrote...

Imagine that you see big explosion going in your direction. I mean the one that can destroy Earth, before Crucible even shoots. If it is harmless, then Shepard probably is alive (at least that's what Joker may think) and can be saved later. But if it can destroy the ship, then it's Joker's responsibility to make sure his crew survive. It's not like he need to stay there and wait for death, because Shepard isn't on board. So he escapes through mass relay, and then we know what's happening.

Prove me wrong.

Hey, you remember that one scene from Mass Effect 2.....

[ninjaNumber1]

gxkrizard wrote...

And I agree there is a lot of assumptions in my theories, but I just want to show you that this can be explained. It requires a lot of luck for our crew, but hell, that's not the first time they have it.

When you say 'it can be explained', you simply mean that you can give possibilities that reconcile the problematic plot points. But as you can see, most of the possibilities you give seem implausible as pointed out by others.

[gxkrizard]

Bladewinger wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9872108&lf=8

Have you seen this? 

Wait, what? He directed him to the thread that supports halucination theory? Is this really Bioware employee?

[balance5050]

 I like how someone is trying to prove the legitimacy  of Joker's escape amidst all the space magic .

[Davies993]

Also, couldn't resist...

http://2.bp.blogspot...at-his-best.jpg

Modifié par Davies993, 13 mars 2012 - 11:10 .

[balance5050]

gxkrizard wrote...

Bladewinger wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9872108&lf=8

Have you seen this? 

Wait, what? He directed him to the thread that supports halucination theory? Is this really Bioware employee?

Thats what happened right there, yep, I've been a believer for days now, but the evidence just keeps piling up.

[annoyingpoodle]

gxkrizard wrote...

Bladewinger wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9872108&lf=8

Have you seen this? 

Wait, what? He directed him to the thread that supports halucination theory? Is this really Bioware employee?

It's not a theory the hidden ending shows shepard after he was hit by harbingers laser everything between those two events was in shepards mind as harbinger was trying to indoctrinate him.

[Myrmedus]

Yes, the whole set of scenes from Shepard being zapped by Harbinger to when he goes up the elevator struck a chord in me. We have never seen Shepard like this. Even when he "dies" in ME2, which is a powerful scene in itself, we know he's coming back. In ME3, I felt my stomach sink. I actually remember saying "No....no no...." when playing the game.

BioWare did something similar to me before with Dragon Age. When I first played, I chose to sacrifice my Warden and that hit a chord too, though obviously nothing quite like this. Another scene that did this was MGS4's microwave hallway.

It was really good, just fix the **** at the very end xD.

[JrSlackin]

gxkrizard wrote...

FarynUEA wrote...

gxkrizard wrote...

After Harbinger blast, they were ordered to retreat. Then when Shepard was talking with IM and that AI, Normandy had a lot of time to pick the rest of the squad. Why? Well, maybe just because Reapers were about to kill them otherwise.
I assume your crew somehow survive the Harbringer attacks, but that's not impossible.
While on board, they already knew Shepard and Anderson made it to the beam.
And when Crucible explode, they just tried to run away as every one else would. Because if that explosion was destructive, giving their lifes away wasn't anything better than trying to survive.
And if it wasn't, then they might assume that Shepard is okay and decided to come for him when it's safe.

First, Coats ordered that retreat groundside, NOT hackett!

Second, the Normandy was involved in a space battle at that time, as was everyone else. I doubt Joker would think "Hey, I better extract my team" (and IF there was an order to retreat Joker MAY indeed retreat, but not pick up crew first, THEN retreat ... that would make absolutely! no sense)

Then, we have the colored wave. By now its to late to run!

Joker would not run just because it COULD be dangerous

What if he was ordered to rescue the ground team? Then explosion happens, and he decided to get away because he actually cares about his crew. And again: when the explosion happened, war was already over. Their job was only to protect Crucible, nothing more.

What if the Reapers were shooting rainbows instead of laswers.

When you start doing "what ifs" it's not different from anyone elses theory nor are you proving anyone wrong and or right. Sorry.