68 réponses à ce sujet

[mmu1]

No, really - an honest question. I'm not saying it's a bad game (though it's definitely not my favorite Bioware game ever), but I see a lot of people praising the size and scope of it, and I just don't see it.

Orzammar, the biggest area in the game (and the only one that even feels comparable to previous Bioware efforts) consists of one exterior section (sizeable, but there's virtually no content there - a couple fo combats, a merchant, an NPC for a message board quest), 3 interior city maps (with maybe 10 total buildings of varying sizes you can enter, and about as many NPCs you can interact with), and a Deep Roads section which takes ages to complete but has (IIRC) 4 NPCs for you to interact with.

Every other area is smaller - most of them, dramatically so. As a result, to me the game actually feels rather small and claustrophobic... especially in comparison to all the interesting and varied stuff you read about in the Codex. There's apparently such a huge world out there, but you never get to see any of it.

[maggitPL]

Yeah, I noticed it lacks some big, living cities like in Baldur's Gate. Actually, if you come to think of it. There was no such thing since Baldur's Gate. Neither NWN, NWN2, nor Mass Effect (which tried to be an RPG but wasn't, well it still was a great game though) had big open locations. Unfortunately, Bethesda has won the "open world" palm. Not that it makes their games better than Bioware's or Obsidian's... Personally I would love to see a game with an open world as big as in Bethesda's games but with the story driven by Bioware. That simply couldn't fail. And maybe would keep us satisfied.

[Scar9533]

I want a big huge oversized nearly too big world to explore with so much optional "junk" that if you DO manage to find everything IN the game, when you finish the main story a screen pops up and says "Congratulations! you have no life! Or took a year to 'beat' this game!"



This does NOT mean I want to be allowed to kill every NPC I bump into either good, evil or indifferent farmer trying to dig a potato out of the ground. I just want so much to explore that I feel like I am making a story...not following along like a toddler holding onto mom's skirts.

[marshalleck]

maggitPL wrote...

Yeah, I noticed it lacks some big, living cities like in Baldur's Gate. Actually, if you come to think of it. There was no such thing since Baldur's Gate. Neither NWN, NWN2, nor Mass Effect (which tried to be an RPG but wasn't, well it still was a great game though) had big open locations. Unfortunately, Bethesda has won the "open world" palm. Not that it makes their games better than Bioware's or Obsidian's... Personally I would love to see a game with an open world as big as in Bethesda's games but with the story driven by Bioware. That simply couldn't fail. And maybe would keep us satisfied.

Such a game would also take 8 years to develop and its tech would be horribly dated at release

There's a reason developers do it one way or the other, and not both

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 novembre 2009 - 02:24 .

[Ghandorian]

It is not sprawling but it is big. The consequences for how you choose in each part of the campaign have ramifications on the story. The plot adapts in a way I have never experienced before. The story is quite dynamic and with the multiple origins offers a great deal of replayabillity.

That is huge in of itself.

edit: I wanted to add that if the levels where any bigger nobody wold be able to run them. Its all in 3d this time around.

Modifié par Ghandorian, 28 novembre 2009 - 02:30 .

[ShiroGomi]

I can see where you guys are coming from, but after playing through Dragon Age once, I just decided that if I wanted to play Oblivion, I would play Oblivion. This game is meant to be story-driven, and I can't imagine myself faulting BioWare for that when the story is so damn GOOD.

And as far as making it more like Baldur's Gate, well... There're always add-ons and expansions, right?

[marshalleck]

Comparing the size of the game to BG is futile as well, since BG was a sprite-based 2d game. Come on people, you're smarter than that. <_<

[Sensorie]

Athkatla in 3D... that would be big.

[mmu1]

marshalleck wrote...

maggitPL wrote...

Yeah, I noticed it lacks some big, living cities like in Baldur's Gate. Actually, if you come to think of it. There was no such thing since Baldur's Gate. Neither NWN, NWN2, nor Mass Effect (which tried to be an RPG but wasn't, well it still was a great game though) had big open locations. Unfortunately, Bethesda has won the "open world" palm. Not that it makes their games better than Bioware's or Obsidian's... Personally I would love to see a game with an open world as big as in Bethesda's games but with the story driven by Bioware. That simply couldn't fail. And maybe would keep us satisfied.

Such a game would also take 8 years to develop and its tech would be horribly dated at release

There's a reason developers do it one way or the other, and not both

Eh... I suppose, but even Bioware has done better in the past. Mass Effect was a shorter game, because of the FPS mechanic, but the world - not counting the awful side planets, of course - actually felt bigger than the one in DAO. Same thing in KotOR - the combats didn't take nearly as long, but it felt like a longer game. 

[Jonnybear84]

I will admit, the areas aren't particularly big, although I would say that just randomly increasing their size and spacing things out more might appeal to a few people but there are also alot of people on the flip side that would probably get annoyed with the extra time needed to be taken in order to travel around these areas, and that while you might find the areas to be too small you are only one person and your view does not reflect that of everyone elses, I'm not saying your complaint is wrong, as I'm sure there would be plenty of other people out there who would agree with you, but there is also plenty of people who would say the smaller tighter areas is the better option as it reduces the amount of time spent needlessly traveling around the area among other things, neither group of people are wrong in this. (Sorry I just wanted to get that in there before people start wading in here trying to tell each other that their OPINIONS are right or wrong lol)

So you (OP) seem to be saying that
a. the areas are too small and claustrophobic and
b. there isn't enough content in those areas

So what would your solution be? increase area size? as I mentioned above you would not be able to please everyone with this, also consider that you think the areas don't seem to have enough content, well if the areas suddenly became bigger then this would become even more apparent as things become more spaced out, so another solution might be to simply add more content to the areas to make up for the increase in size but also consider that the game on average takes around 60-70 hours on a first time through to complete...this would suggest that there is already plenty of content and things to do/see in the game as it is and while I agree that more content cannot be a bad thing, you do have to draw the line somewhere I'm sure Bioware would have loved to just keep on adding and adding to the game until it was just bursting at the seams with 100's of hours of content in one playthrough but there is such as thing as time constraints and that little thing called a budget....all of a sudden a simple complaint about small areas and a seeming lack of content in them becomes anything but simple.

Heh I would actually be one of those people like you that would prefer larger areas to explore filled with loads of stuff to see and do but I feel that the game as it is right now is pretty damn good and that the amount of vendors and buildings etc feels about right for the size of the areas that they are placed in, and to answer the original question I would guess that the reason people are convinced the game is big and sprawling comes down to the amount of time it takes to complete the game in a thorough way including reading the codex, exploring the areas and doing the main quests and sidequests.

P.S. omg talk about rambling on....sorry for the essay lol

Edit: Aaaaaand in the time it took me to write this mammoth post several people beat me to the punchline lol oh well.

Modifié par Jonnybear84, 28 novembre 2009 - 02:34 .

[Unbroken Lineage]

It feels big. To me. And in no small part due to the Codex.

[Shinji Ex]

Because it is duh!

[marshalleck]

Are you really saying that for example the caves leading to the mountain temple aren't sprawling and huge? What game in the last few years has had dungeons so large? Oblivion and Fallout 3 certainly didn't. The areas in this game are by current standards, quite large.

[emontyj]

they told me 100 hours of gameplay but it took me 69 hours to be very thorough.



I thought there would be a west map to orlais and a north map to quanri but got very surprized when i finished recruiting all the armies and was sent back to denerim.

[mmu1]

Ghandorian wrote...
edit: I wanted to add that if the levels where any bigger nobody wold be able to run them. Its all in 3d this time around.

Some areas in The WItcher, which is 2 years old and based on a much older engine, are much bigger than anything in DAO. (and look better)

Hell, plenty of the areas in freakin' Drakensang were much bigger than those in DAO.

It is possible to make a Bioware-style game that has a bigger playable world than DAO without making a Bethesda-style sandbox. Then there are the in-between titles like Gothic 2 or Risen...

[Frans-Laurens]

I completed the game in 49 hours, very dissapointing. Story mechanics were excellent but.

[Ghandorian]

I am pretty sure this is the first game to use this particular game engine. Is this the Eclipse engine? The technology for all the other games mentioned is suited for the particulars of those games. Things are done here that cant be done in the other games but it comes at a cost.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

In terms of real estate: sure it's not the biggest game. It has a ton of content though: NPCs, side quest, dialogue, codex entries etc.

[hexaligned]

Because it's so long, it's just that it's long because of dialogue, start another game up and esc through it all, you just shaved 20 hours off the game.

[mmu1]

marshalleck wrote...

Are you really saying that for example the caves leading to the mountain temple aren't sprawling and huge? What game in the last few years has had dungeons so large? Oblivion and Fallout 3 certainly didn't. The areas in this game are by current standards, quite large.

Yeah, they're big... and so what? There's nothing in there, except for loads of repetitive combats. They're cheap filler, put in there to extend game length, because it's a lot easier to do that than it is to create more real quests and record more dialogue.

As for comparisons to Oblivion... Are you serious? That game is all dungeon. The starting dungeon alone is longer - though broken up into several parts, but who cares? I certainly have nothing against loading screens, I want the world to feel large, and could care less about how the designers achieve it.

(though it is nice to have a large continous area to explore, and as I said, you can do better than  DAO in that respect without making a sandbox game)

Modifié par mmu1, 28 novembre 2009 - 02:48 .

[Eurypterid]

emontyj wrote...

they told me 100 hours of gameplay but it took me 69 hours to be very thorough.

They did? I never saw, in all the statements from the devs, a definitive count of the number of hours of content. What I did see were various estimates of how much time it may take based on your playstyle. I'm barely skimming the codex entries and have 70 hours into the game, while also trying to grab and complete every quest I can. I doubt there's any definitive answer to the question of how long it iwll take to complete the game.

And seriously, 69 hours for the game for the price you paid. Are you implying you were somehow ripped off? I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but your post seems to indicate you feel you were somehow misled or gypped.

I thought there would be a west map to orlais and a north map to quanri but got very surprized when i finished recruiting all the armies and was sent back to denerim.

What gave you this impression?

To address the OP: I find the game has a big feel to me due to the sheer amount of content, although it also has a restrictive feel to it as well, due to the linear nature of the various areas. I personally have no issue with that though, as I'd much rather have a confined, story-driven game like this than something open and sprawlling with little or no substance to it.

[roberttonkiss]

surely bioware are intending this to be the first part of an ongoing series much like neverwinter nights otherwise why call it dragon age origins with the emphasis on origins

[adam_nox]

I prefer open world stuff, but this game has easily surpassed the amount of content in the last several bioware games I have played.



Fallout 3 was the biggest rpg I've ever played, took me 200 hours to explore every one of it's points of interest and do the quests and everything, and that's not counting dlc. Most people don't understand what that game truly offers, I do.

[roberttonkiss]

also the game has been designed to be played from different start points giving varied experiences

[marshalleck]

mmu1 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Are you really saying that for example the caves leading to the mountain temple aren't sprawling and huge? What game in the last few years has had dungeons so large? Oblivion and Fallout 3 certainly didn't. The areas in this game are by current standards, quite large.

Yeah, they're big... and so what? There's nothing in there, except for loads of repetitive combats. They're cheap filler, put in there to extend game length, because it's a lot easier to do that than it is to create more real quests and record more dialogue.

As for comparisons to Oblivion... Are you serious? That game is all dungeon. The starting dungeon alone is longer - though broken up into several parts, but who cares? I certainly have nothing against loading screens, I want the world to feel large, and could care less about how the designers achieve it.

(though it is nice to have a large continous area to explore, and as I said, you can do better than  DAO in that respect without making a sandbox game)

My point is that "big and sprawling" has no bearing on how much content may be contained therein.

The words "big" and "sprawling" have clear definitions which can apply to many areas and dungeons in the game.

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 novembre 2009 - 02:52 .