185 réponses à ce sujet

[T1l]

Krogan Soldiers are really, really good. You're underestimating the usefulness of Inferno Grenade and Carnage. Equipping a light weapon and abusing Carnage is really effective.

[Kordullin]

Reload canceling (*) puts human snipers into the top tier, to be honest. Easily doubles the damage of widow/javelin. This does prevent you from using your nades and requires one power to stay at 5 - fitness preferably.

*) Whenever you chamber in a new bolt in a single-shot rifle, and hit the grenade button when you have ZERO grenades; you skip the bolt cocking animation, shaving roughly the half of the reload time. You can also roll, cloak or use any other skill but they too have animations - throwing the nades actually makes the animation a bit slower. With cryo blast's damage buffs, the class excels in dealing with heavies as well as small stuff.

[Xaijin]

E_rik wrote...

Whats wrong with Krogan Soldiers?

Everything.

I will be expanding upon this shortly, but as someone playing extensively with Krogan on gold, both Krogans are garbage ->in comparison<- to the other classes, which considering what a/the Krogan represent/s in both game terms and in lore is hee haw ridiculous. By far the best tank in the game on Gold is a Salarian Engineer with a Scorpion and maxed drain and decoy. I hope I don't have to elaborate on how ridiculous that is, or ever even using "tank" as verb or noun and 'Salarian" in the same sentence.

Modifié par Xaijin, 14 mars 2012 - 03:44 .

[Xaijin]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Soldiers are only a good class with the falcon, with any other weapon they are not nearly as effective as other classes. Rating them at the top due to a single weapon is foolish.

-scratches head- my N7 level is over 140 yet I have never seen this gun ..... What is the falcon?

A micro grenade launcher with good base damage against everything.

[Currylaksa]

Xaijin wrote...
Everything.

I will be expanding upon this shortly, but as someone playing extensively with Krogan on gold, both Krogans are garbage ->in comparison<- to the other classes, which considering what a/the Krogan represent/s in both game terms and in lore is hee haw ridiculous. By far the best tank in the game on Gold is a Salarian Engineer with a Scorpion and maxed drain and decoy. I hope I don't have to elaborate on how ridiculous that is, or ever even using "tank" as verb or noun and 'Salarian" in the same sentence.

I'm pretty unhappy with Krogan classes in general myself, but how do you get decoy to work more than half the time?

[Kordullin]

Currylaksa wrote...
I'm pretty unhappy with Krogan classes in general myself, but how do you get decoy to work more than half the time?

Use it from cover. If the enemy can see you put up a decoy, they'll shoot you instead. You can get behind cover and wait for a bit for them to drop 'aggro', but on gold that takes too long. Just stay behind cover and drop the decoy first.

It's a great way to trivialize banshees and primes.

[royard]

Cyonan wrote...

Barfwak wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Neural Shock is for Cerberus forces and the non armored Reapers since it is organic only. It basically just gives you the stun that you get on synthetics for organics as well.

I don't understand that, though.  Using overload on an unprotected organic still makes them do the standing-up-straight you just tazed me bro stun animation.  Am I missing something?

I don't think I've ever used Overload without Neural Shock to be honest so I'm not sure. If it's stunning them without it, then the spec is actually completely pointless to have, as it literally does nothing.

It's different.  If you don't have neural shock, it's the "standing-up-straight" or "crouching" animation.  With neural shock, they actually fall down and take a few seconds to stand back up. 

[royard]

Malanek999 wrote...

Diablerist666 wrote...

Every Adept is good on Gold. Especially if u got someone to detonate. Detonating yourself is a little less efficient. And only the Drell Adept can't detonate protected enemies by himself. Well he can with Grenades, but running for Grenades is a little tedious.

Reave detonates pull doesn't it?

See bolded words. 

[UK Wildcat]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Soldiers are only a good class with the falcon, with any other weapon they are not nearly as effective as other classes. Rating them at the top due to a single weapon is foolish.

-scratches head- my N7 level is over 140 yet I have never seen this gun ..... What is the falcon?

Assault rifle that launches grenades that do nice damage, stagger enemies, and apply the ammo effect to every target hit.  Add ammo capacity and damage and welcome to winning the entire game.

[Cobra5]

Just wanted to make a little post, I mostly agree with the OP.

The only thing I'd like to say: For Salarian Infiltrator, proximity mine is totally worth taking (over fitness).

If you cloak, fire a shot, then fire the proximity mine before the cloak wears off, you launch the mine without triggering its cooldown. By using this method, you can launch a prox mine with every shot (assuming you are using a single-shot rifle).

Speccing it for maximum damage, as well as the evolution that debuffs the target to take increased damage, will increase your overall damage output greatly. This is especially useful against large targets like Atlases, Brutes, and Primes. Other targets can be difficult to hit with the prox mine, but you can just launch it into a crowd, as well. Don't bother trying to actually use it like a mine and laying traps, think of it more like a missile.

Edit: Obviously, fitness has its use as well. Overall though, I feel like cloaking and staying in the back is enough to stay alive.

Modifié par Cobra5, 14 mars 2012 - 05:08 .

[himegoto]

Xaijin wrote...

E_rik wrote...

Whats wrong with Krogan Soldiers?

Everything.

I will be expanding upon this shortly, but as someone playing extensively with Krogan on gold, both Krogans are garbage ->in comparison<- to the other classes, which considering what a/the Krogan represent/s in both game terms and in lore is hee haw ridiculous. By far the best tank in the game on Gold is a Salarian Engineer with a Scorpion and maxed drain and decoy. I hope I don't have to elaborate on how ridiculous that is, or ever even using "tank" as verb or noun and 'Salarian" in the same sentence.

shhhhhhhh. Dont tell them. Soon the kids will be crying for a nerf again.

And yes krogans are pretty useless on gold. I maxed shields instead of melee but still finding myself dying more often than using other classes. Reason being cqc is where they really shines and heaps of enemies just spawns out of nowhere and kills you in 2 seconds regardless of my 1600 health and 1200 shield with armor bonuses.
Still carnage and the nade are pretty sweet but it's not a krogan unless you give him a shotgun.

[himegoto]

Cobra5 wrote...

Just wanted to make a little post, I mostly agree with the OP.

The only thing I'd like to say: For Salarian Infiltrator, proximity mine is totally worth taking (over fitness).

If you cloak, fire a shot, then fire the proximity mine before the cloak wears off, you launch the mine without triggering its cooldown. By using this method, you can launch a prox mine with every shot (assuming you are using a single-shot rifle).

Speccing it for maximum damage, as well as the evolution that debuffs the target to take increased damage, will increase your overall damage output greatly. This is especially useful against large targets like Atlases, Brutes, and Primes. Other targets can be difficult to hit with the prox mine, but you can just launch it into a crowd, as well. Don't bother trying to actually use it like a mine and laying traps, think of it more like a missile.

Edit: Obviously, fitness has its use as well. Overall though, I feel like cloaking and staying in the back is enough to stay alive.

I do this too. Instead of mine I use energy drain.
So....

[UK Wildcat]

The problem with Krogan is that they are severely hampered by a lack of rolling ability. No amount of health/shields will save you from enemies that stagger you if you don't have mobility. Krogan have the worst mobility making an otherwise beefy unit into one that is in reality very easy to kill in most situations on Gold.

[Drake Clutch]

What's wrong with human engineer?

[UK Wildcat]

Drake Clutch wrote...

What's wrong with human engineer?

Which other class would you take it over not from the worst list?  Assuming you pick any other class, why would engineer make your gold run more efficient?

Modifié par UK Wildcat, 14 mars 2012 - 06:21 .

[A Wild Snorlax]

UK Wildcat wrote...

Drake Clutch wrote...

What's wrong with human engineer?

Which other class would you take it over not from the worst list?  Assuming you pick any other class, why would engineer make your gold run more efficient?

Surely human engineer is one of the best classes at least against geth? i've done quite a few gold runs on geth with only salarians and human engineers now and chain overload is so good for setting up tech bursts and staggering people. I guess turian does the same, tech armor is kinda useless though and personally I think dodge is just as good as extra shields and health.

[UK Wildcat]

Why bring a human engineer versus Geth? I'm yet to see any reason on time-completion. Energy drain is more useful than overload. Others can overload. There's no reason to bring an engineer and plenty of reasons not to. Any class is potentially more useful from amongst the classes that serve in the same role.

[Makatak]

This list is decent, for people who've spent $200 on spectre packs.

As it stands right now, soldiers in my game are useless simply because I don't have enough weapons at high enough levels to make them viable, just as an example.

There's really too many factors to consider when it comes to human error to really have an adequate list of "these are the best, these are the worst," especially for gold where team synergy becomes a very important point to consider. Four individuals on their best classes may still fall, whereas a weaker team of four working together, with classes and abilities that compliment one another, may succeed.

Getting more specific: Personally, I love Carnage. But I tend to roll my Krogan Soldier with a Melee Rage build and only a Claymore, so Carnage gets those things I can't reach. However, Inferno grenades are trash, and I have yet to ever put any points in them once I promoted and was able to respec the class.

For Drell Adepts, I find Cluster Grenades too erratic to really be a consistent damage dealer. And this is somewhat true of all grenades, but especially Cluster Grenades due to their unpredictable flight paths. However, I'd absolutely recommend taking Pull to strike off Guardian shields and set up Biotic Explosions with Reave (Reave's travel time is instant. All you wait for is pull's cooldown. On gold, this can give you enough time for an unshielded target to get the Combo off). Still, their reliance on their flips for damage resistance and their reduced capabilities against geth make them not something I'd want in a party. Especially when I could have an asari Adept in its place.

I don't get your dismissal of Throw on the asari Adept. The bread and butter of their damage is going to be Biotic Explosions. When hitting an Atlas, I kill Phantoms accidentally because of Biotic Explosions. I cannot stress their magnificence enough!

The fact that four krogan Soldiers can run Gold should be an indication that they do have utility. One simply has to understand the playstyle and how it varies from Bronze to Gold: i.e. you can't rush out into packs of mobs, but guard your group from within. They're great defending against Hunters/Pyros/similar mobs who get too close, when you run a tight-knit group. Essentially, they're a moving shotgun -- tons of close-range damage.

The Human Engineer's Drone is one of his primary abilities, if not actually his primary ability. Don't fall for the rocket trap, spec it on the entire other path (explosive, chain shock, and damage/durability, I believe). Geth Primes stop what they're doing, turn around, and focus on this thing, kill it, and it blows up in their face. Not only do you CC the danger mob, you damage everything around it. This is particularly useful when you spec Overload into chain combos for tech burst setups, because its single-target DPS drops significantly.

Using Krogan Sentinel's Lift Grenades against the weaker mobs is a waste of the grenade; they can do up to 1k damage by themselves, that's not even figuring someone put a warp or a reave on the target. In Gold, when mobs don't take any damage until their primary defense (shield/barrier) is gone, this is mostly going to be overkill on non-elite mobs, and you're going to have a lot of wasted overdamage. Lift Grenades should be used primarily on the elite mobs, and the krogan's heavy melee or weapon should be used to deal with the little guys.

I'd comment more, but it's way late. Decent guide at best, but it doesn't take every spec in to account. In fact, it writes off some classes judged on poor path evolutions. Moreover, it assumes the player has upgraded Rare/N7 gear, which for many people who need guides won't be the case. Still, thanks for writing this up though; all criticism aside, I hope it helps people.

[Makatak]

UK Wildcat wrote...

Why bring a human engineer versus Geth? I'm yet to see any reason on time-completion. Energy drain is more useful than overload. Others can overload. There's no reason to bring an engineer and plenty of reasons not to. Any class is potentially more useful from amongst the classes that serve in the same role.

Human Engineer's Overload will probably have a shorter cooldown time than, say, the Turian Sentinel (especially if he has Tech Armor up...which, being a Sentinel...he should). This will set up Tech Bursts for improved damage. Chain Overload in particular will be even more useful for this, as it sets up three targets instead of one for the extra damage from Tech Bursting.

[Cobra5]

himegoto wrote...
I do this too. Instead of mine I use energy drain.
So....

Prox mine does more damage, and applies a 20% debuff to enemies defense.

[UK Wildcat]

Makatak wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...

Why bring a human engineer versus Geth? I'm yet to see any reason on time-completion. Energy drain is more useful than overload. Others can overload. There's no reason to bring an engineer and plenty of reasons not to. Any class is potentially more useful from amongst the classes that serve in the same role.

Human Engineer's Overload will probably have a shorter cooldown time than, say, the Turian Sentinel (especially if he has Tech Armor up...which, being a Sentinel...he should). This will set up Tech Bursts for improved damage. Chain Overload in particular will be even more useful for this, as it sets up three targets instead of one for the extra damage from Tech Bursting.

If you are bringing a human engineer for damage, why not bring a class that does more damage more rapidly?  The entire point of my rating system is efficiency, not 'can this class be effective in my mind or can I beat gold with this class'

Modifié par UK Wildcat, 14 mars 2012 - 04:07 .

[-Jaren-]

I'll eventually read the rest of this thread but I have to add now that their is no way a Human Sentinel is in the worst class bracket. Spec biotic explosions on Throw and Warp and you have yourself an insanely powerful character.

And I'm sure a lot of people have already stated it, but class builds should only be rated by class and not guns. Silly to do it any other way.

[Makatak]

UK Wildcat wrote...

Makatak wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...

Why bring a human engineer versus Geth? I'm yet to see any reason on time-completion. Energy drain is more useful than overload. Others can overload. There's no reason to bring an engineer and plenty of reasons not to. Any class is potentially more useful from amongst the classes that serve in the same role.

Human Engineer's Overload will probably have a shorter cooldown time than, say, the Turian Sentinel (especially if he has Tech Armor up...which, being a Sentinel...he should). This will set up Tech Bursts for improved damage. Chain Overload in particular will be even more useful for this, as it sets up three targets instead of one for the extra damage from Tech Bursting.

If you are bringing a human engineer for damage, why not bring a class that does more damage more rapidly?  The entire point of my rating system is efficiency, not 'can this class be effective in my mind or can I beat gold with this class'

Because not all damage is modified the same. Facing Geth and Cerberus, you're going to fight waves of several grouped opponents who are protected by shields. Chain Overloads will wipe those away much faster than...well, pretty much anything else out there, allowing soldiers, adepts, or other classes to bring out their abilities on the health bar. Or, conveniently, Engineers' Combat Drone when exploding has a great AoE component to it.

Also, you did this in the demo as well, from what I recall of your writings; you don't account for combo damage nearly as much as people in Gold should be; I don't know what your times look like, but pulling 22 minute gold runs regularly is a result of people comboing abilities: tech bursts, biotic, cryo, and fire explosions. Especially now after the Quarian Infiltrator nerf, a lot of the efficiency of gold runs vs. geth and cerberus is going to come from chain overload and biotic explosions.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Makatak wrote...

This list is decent, for people who've spent $200 on spectre packs.

The fact that four krogan Soldiers can run Gold should be an indication that they do have utility. One simply has to understand the playstyle and how it varies from Bronze to Gold: i.e. you can't rush out into packs of mobs, but guard your group from within. They're great defending against Hunters/Pyros/similar mobs who get too close, when you run a tight-knit group. Essentially, they're a moving shotgun -- tons of close-range damage.

My team tends to do better with a krogan on board in Gold. Krogan obliterate weaker enemies and become a prime shootout unit. They can pop out of cover to make critical shots and not get wiped out. The problem with Salarian Engineer as "tank" is how power-reliant they are and how useless they are in close quarters.  Decoy is not a get out of jail free card if you get flanked; I have seen many infiltrators and Salarian engineers get killed because they get complacent to their life sustaining abilities. If you watch your back as krogan, there is NO reason why you can't pull away from powerful enemies like phantoms and banshees.

That is to say, if both watch out, they're both good, but if neither watch out, they get crushed. I'd rather take the krogan, as it means I have a much better chance of living if I'm surrounded or fighting enemies where there's no hiding.

[Makatak]

-Jaren- wrote...

And I'm sure a lot of people have already stated it, but class builds should only be rated by class and not guns. Silly to do it any other way.

This.