185 réponses à ce sujet

[Lemnisc8]

UK Wildcat wrote...

Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd wrote...

Is the Salarian Engineer really that good? I don't like Decoy so I've never tried him..

For efficiency's sake, yes.  Decoy occupies enemies while you get free shots on them, or changes how rapidly an enemy is able to get to you.  I can't do it justice through words.  Just try a build with decoy and experiment with placement.  The utility should quickly become apparent.

Further to my previous post on the Human Engineer, I did spend all morning on the salarian engineer. That decoy is a really powerful ability, and I didn't expect it to be better than the combat drone - but it is. It's MILES better. The amount of aggro that thing pulls on Gold saved our collective asses on a number of occasions, and while it doesn't last long on Gold (one rocket trooper will take it out) it is easily capable of occupying 2-3 hunters and a prime.

It really is a mint class. My mind has been swayed.

[Sabresandiego]

Here is a short video I made of drell vanguard, which is one of the best classes in the game.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 16 mars 2012 - 02:06 .

[Ediblestarfish]

Lemnisc8 wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...

Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd wrote...

Is the Salarian Engineer really that good? I don't like Decoy so I've never tried him..

For efficiency's sake, yes.  Decoy occupies enemies while you get free shots on them, or changes how rapidly an enemy is able to get to you.  I can't do it justice through words.  Just try a build with decoy and experiment with placement.  The utility should quickly become apparent.

Further to my previous post on the Human Engineer, I did spend all morning on the salarian engineer. That decoy is a really powerful ability, and I didn't expect it to be better than the combat drone - but it is. It's MILES better. The amount of aggro that thing pulls on Gold saved our collective asses on a number of occasions, and while it doesn't last long on Gold (one rocket trooper will take it out) it is easily capable of occupying 2-3 hunters and a prime.

It really is a mint class. My mind has been swayed.

The decoy works much faster at getting attention since it does't require it firing off an attack--you just have to pop it and hide for a second so the enemies stop targeting you.

Energy drain too, is much more potent at getting shields/barriers to drop.  Plus you get more time to spam Incinerate since you don't need to keep using Overload non-stop with the decoy out.

[HaesoME3]

mysticforce42 wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...

mysticforce42 wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...

mysticforce42 wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

The DPS figures listed on that spreadsheet are wrong.

Regardless of how accurate or inaccurate the listed DPS is - the ROF and raw damage is accurate - the Saber is a terrible weapon.

DPS on that spreadsheet is inaccurate and rounds per clip is inaccurate for some weapons as well. 

I wasn't terribly impressed with the Sabre when I first got it, but wait until it levels a bit and use it with Marksman - 8 shots means you don't waste time reloading, which improves overall RoF over each reload.  Use it with AR and take down a shielded mob on Gold with 4 shots to the Black Widow's 3...and you still have another 4 shots before you have to reload.  In general, higher clip gives you more flexibility and advantage over shield mechanics on Gold.

It's easier to think of it as a sniper rifle with high clip and high RoF (for sniper rifles), or a Canifax with higher clip, higher damage but slower RoF.

The only inaccuracies stem from it being datamined and not updated since demo.

Except it's significantly worse than the carnifex and paladin. It fires slower, is only marginally more accurate, and has comparable damage. All for weighing about 100% recharge more.

Though it's becoming outdated with mp adjustments, it's still overall a good representation - I can go ahead and datamine the RoF and damage/hit if you like and show you quite plainly it's a terrible weapon.

If you're using the black widow with AR and taking three shots to kill something you're doing something horribly wrong. Not to mention with a soldier you can reload using AR and reload-cancel with grenades... Reload times are almost entirely inconsequential.  Not to mention even further the Falcon weighs the same as a saber, has marginally less damage, fires much faster, has only two less rounds to a clip - but is AoE and only a silver or gold weapon, not an N7 weapon.

The saber is a terrible weapon compared to alternatives, the paladin/carnifex both make better snipers for less weight, especially with soldiers or any class that can grenade reload. The falcon makes a better basically everything but headshot sniper.

I agree that the spreadsheet is generally a good guide, but I think you are missing the forrest for the trees.

Damage and RoF are good indicators when comparing weapons when looking purely at DPS, which is an accurate measure if we ignore shield mechanics in Gold.  The fact that a single point of shield/barrier will absorb all damage from one shot makes weapons with higher clips more efficient.  If you can manage to kill, say, a Phantom with 2 shots on a Black Widow with AR then please share your secret, because I don't see how you can get past the shields with less than 2 shots.  Remember, we are talking Soldiers here, not Infiltrators so there's no ED to fall back on.

I don't think anyone's going to argue that the Falcon is by far the best assult rifle - and probably one of the best weapons in general right now.  My original post was addressed to a poster who believed Soldiers would be useless when the Falcon gets nerfed, so I was presenting the Sabre as another example of a weapon that synergizes with Soldiers very well.

Reload times can be cut with the reload trick - but it is still a break in damage, and potentially leaving a priority enemy alive and letting those pesky close-combat variants get closer to you.  How many times have you had to reload when your target would be dead with another shot when running around witha  Carni or Paladin? I know it certainly happens to me quite a bit.  This is when 8 rounds work better than 6 (or fewer).

Yeah, it's heavy.  Yeah, it'll take forever to level.  Arguing about Sabre vs Carni vs Paladin is like arguing about Mantix vs Widow vs Black Widow - they all can work and each has their strengths and weaknesses based on situation.

I'd take a X Carn/paladin over X Saber any day of the week, the speed at which you rank it up is not the reason - the reason is it's worse, it just also happens to be N7 and rank up slowly to put salt in the wound.

You talk about the magazine size, lets talk reload time. 1.5 vs 2.9. Both can be cut in around half with the various reload tricks, saber benefits slightly more than the carnifex and double the paladin from AR reload but almost half for grenade reload. You'll be reloading manually more often than AR reloading if constantly firing. Plus a faster RoF. I can put out more rounds with a paladin than you can with a saber in the same period, each dealing more damage. Or a carnifex for slightly less damage and even higher effective RoF.

The paladin between reload speed and fire rate will put out around as many bullets - All while weighing 90% less and dealing the same damage. 


I don't recall if a headshot with a BW removes all of a phantom's barrier, I know a regular widow does, I also don't have BW X to tell if it does then. It doesn't really matter - play with a team and let someone stasis for you or overload for you, or simply pick a target that's better suited to your weapon. You don't pick off random assault troopers in the back when there's an atlas on top of the group, do you? Priorities. I'd still rather three shot the phantom with a BW and reload, then put over double the DPS of a saber into say an atlas, or get an assault trooper multi-kill, or put down a brute with a few shots -> adrenaline rush -> a few shots without reloading. The saber might get more rounds from the AR reload, but it's effective DPS is utterly terrible, it tries to fill a niche in it's damage/speed that the Carnifex and Paladin both surpass it in, and it's total DPS against large enemies is awful.


In all but the longest range situations I'd rather have a claymore wielding soldier than a saber even. Or a turian with a hornet. The saber is simply an ineffective weapon,

It's certainly your perogative to use whatever weapon you feel best suite your needs. 

You are still quoting the DPS numbers from that spreadsheet which is clearly wrong in the case of the Sabre unless I am missing something (which is quite possible).

Take a look at the Average Damage per shot on the Sabre, Carnifax, and Paladin on the spreadsheet.  Then, take a look at the Rate of Fire...and then finally take a look at the listed DPS.  Notice something very, very odd?

Sabre: Avg. Dmg. per shot = 393.85.  Rate of fire = 80.  DPS as listed on the spreadsheet = 235
Carnifax: Avg. Dmg. per shot = 310.6.  Rate of fire = 100.  DPS as listed on the spreadsheet = 406
Paladin: Avg. Dmg per shot = 394.8.  Rate of fire= 100.  DPS as listed on the spreadsheet = 450

Would you care to explain how the Carnifax compared with the Sabre, with it's 79% dmage per shot at 125% RoF, manages to have 173% the DPS?  While I don't know what the RoF figure stands for (it would make sense to be the number of shots per minute), but that DPS figure is obviously completely wrong.

If the RoF is indeed the number of shots per minute, then we get 525.1 DPS for the Sabre, 517.7 DPS for the Carnifax, and 658 for the Paladin.  At that point it becomes a matter of choice in terms of weight and clip size.

I'm not using the listed DPS for my comparisons. Clearly you didn't actually read my post and you're stuck on the spreadsheet. Carnifex does the same effective DPS - and is only worse in situations where it requires an extra shot to achieve the same kill - but it shoots faster so that's irrelevant unless the extra shot is 7 - but overall it's about the same. However by this point the paladin still surpasses the saber in overall ROF and DPS because it fires faster and reloads faster you'll kill pretty much everything faster. And once you have X on both, paladin's ammo problem is a thing of the past, especially since if you've got an X paladin you've got 10 ammo pack consumables by that point..

I use both experience and my own derived DPS to compare weapons. The saber is at best sub optimal, your listed stats show it the same - do you want +60% recharge speed and less DPS, or 200% recharge speed and more DPS? There's no logical reasoning for using a saber over the paladin.

Modifié par HaesoME3, 16 mars 2012 - 02:16 .

[Darkfoxz87]

I agree with some of what you said. Any class is usefull on Gold. Hell I was with a Drell VG that was zipping around taking little to no damage, killing everything in sight. The only thing that slowed him down was turrets which I took care of.

It is how welll you use the class not necessarily how effective each class is.

Also Pull + Reave is the fastest combo in the game.

[mysticforce42]

HaesoME3 wrote...

mysticforce42 wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...

mysticforce42 wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...

mysticforce42 wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

The DPS figures listed on that spreadsheet are wrong.

Regardless of how accurate or inaccurate the listed DPS is - the ROF and raw damage is accurate - the Saber is a terrible weapon.

DPS on that spreadsheet is inaccurate and rounds per clip is inaccurate for some weapons as well. 

I wasn't terribly impressed with the Sabre when I first got it, but wait until it levels a bit and use it with Marksman - 8 shots means you don't waste time reloading, which improves overall RoF over each reload.  Use it with AR and take down a shielded mob on Gold with 4 shots to the Black Widow's 3...and you still have another 4 shots before you have to reload.  In general, higher clip gives you more flexibility and advantage over shield mechanics on Gold.

It's easier to think of it as a sniper rifle with high clip and high RoF (for sniper rifles), or a Canifax with higher clip, higher damage but slower RoF.

The only inaccuracies stem from it being datamined and not updated since demo.

Except it's significantly worse than the carnifex and paladin. It fires slower, is only marginally more accurate, and has comparable damage. All for weighing about 100% recharge more.

Though it's becoming outdated with mp adjustments, it's still overall a good representation - I can go ahead and datamine the RoF and damage/hit if you like and show you quite plainly it's a terrible weapon.

If you're using the black widow with AR and taking three shots to kill something you're doing something horribly wrong. Not to mention with a soldier you can reload using AR and reload-cancel with grenades... Reload times are almost entirely inconsequential.  Not to mention even further the Falcon weighs the same as a saber, has marginally less damage, fires much faster, has only two less rounds to a clip - but is AoE and only a silver or gold weapon, not an N7 weapon.

The saber is a terrible weapon compared to alternatives, the paladin/carnifex both make better snipers for less weight, especially with soldiers or any class that can grenade reload. The falcon makes a better basically everything but headshot sniper.

I agree that the spreadsheet is generally a good guide, but I think you are missing the forrest for the trees.

Damage and RoF are good indicators when comparing weapons when looking purely at DPS, which is an accurate measure if we ignore shield mechanics in Gold.  The fact that a single point of shield/barrier will absorb all damage from one shot makes weapons with higher clips more efficient.  If you can manage to kill, say, a Phantom with 2 shots on a Black Widow with AR then please share your secret, because I don't see how you can get past the shields with less than 2 shots.  Remember, we are talking Soldiers here, not Infiltrators so there's no ED to fall back on.

I don't think anyone's going to argue that the Falcon is by far the best assult rifle - and probably one of the best weapons in general right now.  My original post was addressed to a poster who believed Soldiers would be useless when the Falcon gets nerfed, so I was presenting the Sabre as another example of a weapon that synergizes with Soldiers very well.

Reload times can be cut with the reload trick - but it is still a break in damage, and potentially leaving a priority enemy alive and letting those pesky close-combat variants get closer to you.  How many times have you had to reload when your target would be dead with another shot when running around witha  Carni or Paladin? I know it certainly happens to me quite a bit.  This is when 8 rounds work better than 6 (or fewer).

Yeah, it's heavy.  Yeah, it'll take forever to level.  Arguing about Sabre vs Carni vs Paladin is like arguing about Mantix vs Widow vs Black Widow - they all can work and each has their strengths and weaknesses based on situation.

I'd take a X Carn/paladin over X Saber any day of the week, the speed at which you rank it up is not the reason - the reason is it's worse, it just also happens to be N7 and rank up slowly to put salt in the wound.

You talk about the magazine size, lets talk reload time. 1.5 vs 2.9. Both can be cut in around half with the various reload tricks, saber benefits slightly more than the carnifex and double the paladin from AR reload but almost half for grenade reload. You'll be reloading manually more often than AR reloading if constantly firing. Plus a faster RoF. I can put out more rounds with a paladin than you can with a saber in the same period, each dealing more damage. Or a carnifex for slightly less damage and even higher effective RoF.

The paladin between reload speed and fire rate will put out around as many bullets - All while weighing 90% less and dealing the same damage. 


I don't recall if a headshot with a BW removes all of a phantom's barrier, I know a regular widow does, I also don't have BW X to tell if it does then. It doesn't really matter - play with a team and let someone stasis for you or overload for you, or simply pick a target that's better suited to your weapon. You don't pick off random assault troopers in the back when there's an atlas on top of the group, do you? Priorities. I'd still rather three shot the phantom with a BW and reload, then put over double the DPS of a saber into say an atlas, or get an assault trooper multi-kill, or put down a brute with a few shots -> adrenaline rush -> a few shots without reloading. The saber might get more rounds from the AR reload, but it's effective DPS is utterly terrible, it tries to fill a niche in it's damage/speed that the Carnifex and Paladin both surpass it in, and it's total DPS against large enemies is awful.


In all but the longest range situations I'd rather have a claymore wielding soldier than a saber even. Or a turian with a hornet. The saber is simply an ineffective weapon,

It's certainly your perogative to use whatever weapon you feel best suite your needs. 

You are still quoting the DPS numbers from that spreadsheet which is clearly wrong in the case of the Sabre unless I am missing something (which is quite possible).

Take a look at the Average Damage per shot on the Sabre, Carnifax, and Paladin on the spreadsheet.  Then, take a look at the Rate of Fire...and then finally take a look at the listed DPS.  Notice something very, very odd?

Sabre: Avg. Dmg. per shot = 393.85.  Rate of fire = 80.  DPS as listed on the spreadsheet = 235
Carnifax: Avg. Dmg. per shot = 310.6.  Rate of fire = 100.  DPS as listed on the spreadsheet = 406
Paladin: Avg. Dmg per shot = 394.8.  Rate of fire= 100.  DPS as listed on the spreadsheet = 450

Would you care to explain how the Carnifax compared with the Sabre, with it's 79% dmage per shot at 125% RoF, manages to have 173% the DPS?  While I don't know what the RoF figure stands for (it would make sense to be the number of shots per minute), but that DPS figure is obviously completely wrong.

If the RoF is indeed the number of shots per minute, then we get 525.1 DPS for the Sabre, 517.7 DPS for the Carnifax, and 658 for the Paladin.  At that point it becomes a matter of choice in terms of weight and clip size.

I'm not using the listed DPS for my comparisons. Clearly you didn't actually read my post and you're stuck on the spreadsheet. Carnifex does the same effective DPS - and is only worse in situations where it requires an extra shot to achieve the same kill - but it shoots faster so that's irrelevant unless the extra shot is 7 - but overall it's about the same. However by this point the paladin still surpasses the saber in overall ROF and DPS because it fires faster and reloads faster you'll kill pretty much everything faster. And once you have X on both, paladin's ammo problem is a thing of the past, especially since if you've got an X paladin you've got 10 ammo pack consumables by that point..

I use both experience and my own derived DPS to compare weapons. The saber is at best sub optimal, your listed stats show it the same - do you want +60% recharge speed and less DPS, or 200% recharge speed and more DPS? There's no logical reasoning for using a saber over the paladin.

I did read your post - I was just trying to figure out how you'd justify "The saber might get more rounds from the AR reload, but it's effective DPS is utterly terrible, it tries to fill a niche in it's damage/speed that the Carnifex and Paladin both surpass it in, and it's total DPS against large enemies is awful."

While the Paladin's DPS is indeed superior, I think we both agree that the Carnifex's DPS is actually inferior.  It's got double the clip of the Paladin, thus invoking the DPS/clip size judgement call for the player, which is similar to the choice you have to make between Black Widow and Widow.

None of the facts and statistics brought forth by both of us so far support your claim that the Sabre is a "terrible" weapon - everything we've discussed so far suggest it is on par with Paladin / Carnifex... both of which are very good weapons.  It's a judgement call on what any particular player values more in a given situation:  Higher accuracy + higher clip + more weight vs higher DPS + lower clip + less weight vs lower DPS + lower clip + less weight. 

Which weapon you want to use is up to you - but I think we proved that calling the Sabre terrible is a quite a bit of an overstatement.

[Shampoohorn]

This was a good post a month ago. People have got higher level weapons and a better feel for the classes now, and it would be interesting to see how views have changed.

My input: Human adept will still suck.

[UK Wildcat]

Obviously the Original post is outdated.

[-Severian-]

I think you're very, very wrong reccomending that players skip over pull on the Drell Adept - I play with it maxed out with the explosion evolution, as a Pull > Reave combo can be executed in 2 seconds for minimal exposure, and will instantly destroy ANY of the full-health minions on Gold difficulty.

Carrying a powerful (but light) one-shot weapon such as the Mantis to rip down shields in one shot opens up things like Hunters, Nemesis and Centurions (all of these lose their shields to single Mantis shot, and will die immeidately upon detonation on Gold) to similar lightning fast biotic detonations, while Reave gives you great utility against the larger targets, such as Banshees and Phantoms. The simple fact is that the Drell is made of paper, so minimal exposure is neccesary. Pull > Reave offers a massive damage potential with a tiny window of exposure. It's also worth noting that a double Reave will remove a Phantoms Barrier entirely, and a Pull (usually two Pulls, they dodge the first) to Reave combo will insta-kill them as well.

Modifié par -Severian-, 17 avril 2012 - 05:49 .

[PluralAces]

This is all one person's opinion *shrugs*

[Blennus]

I would really like to see the original post updated with the new classes