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About cheating in Multiplayer


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#1401
Krantzstone

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InfamousResult wrote...

I really doubt they're going to alter the way they ban people just because a few of them might actually be so ignorant that they can't figure out that shooting insta-kill rockets over and over in every match is exploiting. And we wouldn't be able to tell who the ignorant parties are, because everybody can just claim ignorance.

The exact same thing can be said of your suggestion to add a "compiled list" of things that will get you banned to the actual game. People can just claim that they skipped it, or didn't read it, and that they were still ignorant. "Buhhh, but who really READ that? I just wanted to play a game, I didn't want to READ." It'd be a lot of work just to get a message out that wouldn't actually change anything.

The system is as good as it's going to get. My apologies to any players who just plain don't have common sense, but like I said: Ignorance is not innocence. No matter how ignorant you are.


That's unfortunate, because banning innocent people = creating more people who will hate on BioWare and EA.  It also means fewer people playing multiplayer, which means less fun for people who want to play with other people.

The goal shouldn't be to ban as many people as possible, it should be to fix the bugs so that they can't be abused in the first place, even by accident.  Banning people in lieu of fixing the issue simply isn't an option.  Okay, it is an option, but I don't think it's a very good one, especially if the goal is to get more people playing multiplayer, and to get them to continue playing it long after they're finished with the single player.

I don't think it's too difficult for them to create a MOTD for multiplayer that you can't easily skip through (like many EULA dialog boxes) to ensure that at the very least, people have _skimmed_ through the latest news, and if people skip reading it, even after seeing a 'Important Message for Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer Players Regarding Bannable Offenses', then it's at least the player's fault for skipping reading something that important and their own fault if they get ban-hammered.  What's not okay is liberally applying the bans without warning to people who may not have read the forums, or for whatever reason may not even have access to the forums (remember how wonky the BioWare/EA/Origin account system became after consolidation?).  This is especially important for Xbox 360 players because Microsoft doesn't allow internet browsing via Live Gold, so that means no reading of forums for 360 players unless they also have access to a laptop or some other internet-connected device from which to read them.  I wouldn't even bring this up if one of the terms for playing ME3 multiplayer was that you agreed to read the forums on a regular basis, but I'm pretty sure that's not one of the requirements for playing multiplayer that I remember reading when I installed the game.

As well, I'd sooner they temporarily disabled glitchy weapons, classes, etc. so that people can't even accidentally abuse a glitch, than see people get banned for accidentally setting off a glitch.

I've been an admin on online multiplayer games before, and I know quite well the satisfaction to be gained in catching cheaters and punishing them, but I also remember it being an annoying, frustrating and time-consuming thing to constantly have to be suspicious of players, to spend considerable time trying to distinguish between a cheater who is deliberately abusing a bug and a clueless newbie who simply didn't know any better, and often the rules I was expected to enforce were ones that could just as simply have been hard-coded into the game to be impossible to do, rather than having admin dedicated solely to prevent people from doing something the game mechanics are allowing people to do.  While it's more work for coders, ultimately it's a better solution than having to pay people solely to police the game.

Leaving bugs in a game, particularly ones that give cheaters a massive advantage/incentive to abuse, and then hoping people will stop abusing them just by threatening people with the ban-hammer, is not exactly a tenable position for a software company to be in.  And if blanket bannination is inadvertently penalizing perfectly innocent players, well guess what?  That's one less paying customer who won't be buying future BioWare/EA products.  That's not a sound business model any way you look at it, and it has a considerable negative impact on the good name of the company.  And all it takes is for one popular gaming blogger to get caught up in a blanket ban to start a huge crapstorm about it on the internet to see the entire thing get blown totally out of proportion.

And really, I would happily do without my precious Falcon VI for a while if it meant not having to worry that I'll accidentally glitch and get banned for 'cheating' that I wasn't even trying to do anyway.  And what has this current wave of the ban hammer accomplished, except to get people start accusing other players of cheating _solely_ for having a Falcon as their weapon in the game lobby?  I'm sure there's a whole bunch of people who started playing multiplayer who just got their shiny new rare Falcon and were itching to try it out, but every time they enter a lobby they get kicked (and aren't even told why), or accused of cheating, etc.  That sort of suspicion harms the ME3 multiplayer gaming community, and that does impact how people perceive the game, especially if they don't even understand _why_ people are acting this way.

I only know now because I finally started reading the forums, and for all I know the times I've been kicked before were entirely to do with my using my Falcon, and not, as I assumed, because people were just being jerks. ;P

#1402
Blkpanthr67

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again, no one is getting banned for accidental glitching, or joining modded lobbies.

its ONLY habitual cheaters...

They have logs, they know who's habitually cheating...believe me...

All it takes is someone to file a report, and they can compile a profile quickly and determine if its just a butthurt player reporting someone, or a legit cheater.....

ive accidentially joined MANY zombie mod, credit glitch, and weapon mod games, and ive not been banned...

some people are too stupid to keep their cheating ways to private lobbies...

unfortunately, by the time you figure it out, you havent any idea who the host is to report them...They really need to add a host indicator the the kill feed progress screen...

Modifié par Blkpanthr67, 26 juin 2012 - 04:29 .


#1403
loupert

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I think these people are playing with Game Genies. I tried jamming my old NES one in my XBOX. It didn't work so well...

#1404
Anzakness

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Well, I hope that Vanguard bugs aren't counted as cheats.
(When you die while charging an enemy and then the character starts jumping or just flying or going underground D_D...)

I wonder if that's why some of the people on the ranking list of my country went missing D:!

Anyways, I don't know what kind of cheats are, how I can recognize someone cheating?
Besides of the obvious thing of launching rockets with a heavy pistol.

#1405
Siran

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Krantzstone wrote...


As well, I'd sooner they temporarily disabled glitchy weapons, classes, etc. so that people can't even accidentally abuse a glitch, than see people get banned for accidentally setting off a glitch.


Yeah, just disable the frackin' missile launcher, one of the most important tools in ME3 Multiplayer. That'll be fun. These 1% cheaters would now ruin it for the 99% who don't. Same with any other weapon out there.

If you're a multiplayer admin as you claim, you'd know, that patches don't come over night, they have to be tested and checked, so they don't create even worse glitches or bugs. Plus, the devs already said, that there are two different teams that fix bugs and ban cheaters, so the one does not exclude the other.

And a pop-up screen informing everyone of bannable offences might just tick people off to search for them and just annoy the 99% who play the game without cheating, creating just as much anger towards EA / Bioware.

#1406
V_-U_-L_-C_-A_-N

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my friend got banned for 2 days then they let him play

#1407
Geth Platforms

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so today after i download the EC DLC i match-make to this room this host name Anna-Franceska the whole take no dps we one hit everything, i try to get syn kill but it dont work. and then i notice i cant get ammo from box and i dont feel like geting ban from MP because some people want to hack or glitch at the end of the 11 wave it freeze and it didnt even show the score

#1408
Siran

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btw - looks like there was another ban-wave. Jumped several leaderboard-places today without playing all that much. Seems like the rocket-glitchers get what they deserve.

#1409
A Sinister Lamb

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Centaur Lou wrote...

Haven't really ever noticed anyone cheating until recently. I could be wrong, you tell me.

player: strongsquirrel1
1. used 20 something rockets
2. would start reviving others and stop immediately (griefing?)
3. had level X weapons (low N7 rating)

Also, I'm not entirely sure, but his mic was on and it sounded like he was beating up children and laundering money in the background. Don't know, just what it sounded like...


How low? I know a few people who started second profiles, got all their classes to level 20 and didn't promote them, then maxed everything from the recruit packs, then veteran, then premium spectre packs. One guy I know got everything to level X in about two weeks and his N7 level is only 120. He didn't have X level ultra rares, though.
Also, nothing stops people from paying for packs with actual money. 

#1410
Anzakness

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Siran wrote...

btw - looks like there was another ban-wave. Jumped several leaderboard-places today without playing all that much. Seems like the rocket-glitchers get what they deserve.


Happened the same to me.

#1411
Blkpanthr67

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deleted

Modifié par Blkpanthr67, 26 juin 2012 - 09:05 .


#1412
Blkpanthr67

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Geth Platforms wrote...

so today after i download the EC DLC i match-make to this room this host name Anna-Franceska the whole take no dps we one hit everything, i try to get syn kill but it dont work. and then i notice i cant get ammo from box and i dont feel like geting ban from MP because some people want to hack or glitch at the end of the 11 wave it freeze and it didnt even show the score



same thing happens with invincibility glitch...i wasnt aware you could force that....interesting..

you can kill yourself by standing in front of a turret or a ravanger while its firing on someone else..

#1413
InfamousResult

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Krantzstone wrote...

That's unfortunate, because banning innocent people = creating more people who will hate on BioWare and EA.  It also means fewer people playing multiplayer, which means less fun for people who want to play with other people.

The goal shouldn't be to ban as many people as possible, it should be to fix the bugs so that they can't be abused in the first place, even by accident.  Banning people in lieu of fixing the issue simply isn't an option.  Okay, it is an option, but I don't think it's a very good one, especially if the goal is to get more people playing multiplayer, and to get them to continue playing it long after they're finished with the single player.


You'll have to excuse me if I don't reply to the rest of your post. I'm not ignoring it, it's just that it's speculation and suggestions that either don't apply to me or aren't really my business. As is, if you have actual suggestions for Bioware, you should probably make a thread compiled of them or send them off to a Staff Member in a Private Message.

But, once again, I will reiterate: Those people are not innocent.

Ignorance is still not innocence. Bioware is not banning anybody who is innocent of cheating. They still cheated. They still broke a rule. Just because someone doesn't have the common knowledge to know when something is wrong does not suddenly make it okay- they still must be held accountable for their actions, not just for the sake of the person they wronged ( ie. the company ), but also in fairness to those around who did not cheat.

And while I agree that fixing the bugs is important, the departments that fix the bugs and those who ban players are completely seperate. There is no "priority" involved- they both continue to do their jobs ( or, at least, attempt to do their jobs ) in turn. And I am of the opinion that they should not restrict certain weapons / classes / maps / features for all players, including those who never had any intention of abusing bugs / glitches or cheating, just because a few bad apples spoil it.

#1414
MindAssassin

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Not everyone who was banned did something to exploit the game.

#1415
InfamousResult

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As I only have your word to go on that, I will respectfully disagree.

#1416
loupert

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Cheaters shouldn't get banned. Their punishment should be that they can only play as Elcor or Volus and the music in the game becomes nothing but Nickelback music

#1417
Adverb

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Blkpanthr67 wrote...



unfortunately, by the time you figure it out, you havent any idea who the host is to report them...They really need to add a host indicator the the kill feed progress screen...


I have the same problem too.  Pretty much if its a thing that effects everyone in the game, I'll just write down all the names then leave and report it to EA/Bioware stating I couldn't remember who the host was and list all the players in the game.  I at least assume when they dig through the log and find that game that they'll be able to see who the host was.

#1418
Krantzstone

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InfamousResult wrote...

Krantzstone wrote...

That's unfortunate, because banning innocent people = creating more people who will hate on BioWare and EA.  It also means fewer people playing multiplayer, which means less fun for people who want to play with other people.

The goal shouldn't be to ban as many people as possible, it should be to fix the bugs so that they can't be abused in the first place, even by accident.  Banning people in lieu of fixing the issue simply isn't an option.  Okay, it is an option, but I don't think it's a very good one, especially if the goal is to get more people playing multiplayer, and to get them to continue playing it long after they're finished with the single player.


You'll have to excuse me if I don't reply to the rest of your post. I'm not ignoring it, it's just that it's speculation and suggestions that either don't apply to me or aren't really my business. As is, if you have actual suggestions for Bioware, you should probably make a thread compiled of them or send them off to a Staff Member in a Private Message.

But, once again, I will reiterate: Those people are not innocent.

Ignorance is still not innocence. Bioware is not banning anybody who is innocent of cheating. They still cheated. They still broke a rule. Just because someone doesn't have the common knowledge to know when something is wrong does not suddenly make it okay- they still must be held accountable for their actions, not just for the sake of the person they wronged ( ie. the company ), but also in fairness to those around who did not cheat.

And while I agree that fixing the bugs is important, the departments that fix the bugs and those who ban players are completely seperate. There is no "priority" involved- they both continue to do their jobs ( or, at least, attempt to do their jobs ) in turn. And I am of the opinion that they should not restrict certain weapons / classes / maps / features for all players, including those who never had any intention of abusing bugs / glitches or cheating, just because a few bad apples spoil it.


Yeah, but if it's a weapon (or power, or class, or whatever) that can easily cause an abusable glitch without some particularly complicated and arcane actions involved, that means it's possible to do it by accident, which means some people will accidentally glitch without meaning to.  Disabling something like that until they fix it isn't going to severely detract from the playing experience of a majority of players: if anything, it'll force players who might not otherwise bother to play and learn another class, or use another weapon, or what-have-you, to do something a little different.  Meanwhile, it will eliminate entirely the possibility of anyone accidentally glitching, as well as preventing deliberate cheaters from continuing to cheat.  Furthermore, if cheaters are always going to cheat and they just lost one way to cheat, they're going to go and find something new to cheat with, and thus will reveal new cheating methods quicker.

I just don't see the good that can come from leaving a bug in a game while trying to fix it, unless its simply too difficult to disable/remove whatever is causing the bug without substantial and time-consuming recoding (which seems unlikely considering they would probably have had to do that a lot during beta-testing, but who knows, I'm no coder ;P).  I don't want to have to worry about people thinking I'm cheating just because I use a Falcon, and I don't want to have to worry about other players and constantly checking what weapons people have equipped in a lobby just to avoid the possibility of playing with cheaters, and I definitely don't want to have to constantly be watching what other players are doing just to make sure they're not cheating, because I often have enough trouble keeping track of my own actions in a game without having to worry about what my teammates are doing (especially in Silver/Gold).

Obviously, if I see missile spam, now that I know about it I'm gonna quit the game and report it (if I can even remember the cheater's name: some people don't have very memorable player names and as far as I know, the PC version doesn't save who you played with last or anything like that so unless you're particularly deft with the Page Up+S on Raptr (or you run Fraps or something) or you have a pen and paper on hand...)

Leaving a known bug in the game without fixing it, and waving the ban hammer without telling people about it, seems like a situation ripe for misunderstandings and unnecessary bannination.  It also will tie up a lot of admin time checking out every report of bug abuse, just to see if said person was doing it repeatedly on purpose, or just by accident, and while it's ultimately easier and faster to simply blanket ban _everyone_ who glitched, regardless of intent, that _is_ going to have an impact not only on the number of people who play or continue to play multiplayer, but on how people view not only ME3, but Bioware and EA.

I for one don't want to be one of those players who get caught in a blanket ban, and it's only sheer luck that I even started reading the ME3 forums again lately (I'd been avoiding any news of ME3 on the internet because I didn't want to get spoilered about the ending in single player ;P), or I wouldn't have even known about the bug, much less that it was suddenly suspect for people to be using a Falcon right now.  I'm not even going to touch my Falcon on any of my characters now, now that I know, but what about other weapons?  Someone also mentioned the Striker (I think?) as another glitchy weapon, but how many forum threads am I going to have to go through until I've compiiled a list of all the weapons I shouldn't be using until they fix this thing?  And then, how is it fair to expect the vast majority of casual players who probably have not even once looked at the forums to automatically know all this information, when it's not shown anywhere in-game as some mandatory message to be read?  Wouldn't it be easier and safer to simply disable any and all known glitchy code until it's fixed?  And wouldn't that also, by process of elimination, also ensure that if there are any other glitchy weapons/skills/what-have-you left that cause the same glitch, it's more likely to be found quicker because the cheaters will start using those instead?

I'm just saying, at the _very least_, _inform all players, regardless of whether they read the forums or not_.  Make them click a box agreeing that they read the warning and agree to abide by the new rules imposed, and I'd be just as happy, because then at least all players equally will either now know, or ought to know, about things that might get them banned, and if they choose to skim the warning or otherwise not read it and understand it fully before continuing to play multiplayer, then it's now the player's responsibility.  Just don't suddenly start swinging the ban hammer, expecting everyone to have read the forums, because unless reading the forums suddenly became a condition of being allowed to play multiplayer, that's not fair to anyone who hasn't been following the forums thus far.

#1419
Adverb

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Centaur Lou wrote...

Cheaters shouldn't get banned. Their punishment should be that they can only play as Elcor or Volus and the music in the game becomes nothing but Nickelback music

The music would suck but if I could play as an Elcor by cheating, I'd start cheating immediately!

#1420
loupert

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Adverb wrote...

Centaur Lou wrote...

Cheaters shouldn't get banned. Their punishment should be that they can only play as Elcor or Volus and the music in the game becomes nothing but Nickelback music

The music would suck but if I could play as an Elcor by cheating, I'd start cheating immediately!


Yeah but they move really slow and the only weapon you have are those sticks with ribbons that gymnasts use.

That and devil sticks.

#1421
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I'd still do it for the lawls of being an elcor.

#1422
loupert

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Adverb wrote...

I'd still do it for the lawls of being an elcor.


Also, the only enemies are Banshees and Phantoms in Firebase Wal-Mart.

And every time you die, you're forced to watch a half hour cutscene of how hot dogs are made.

#1423
Adverb

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OMG I LOVE THAT VIDEO!

#1424
Sniper21987

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Player DEVILMANIACSLIP

using the missile cheat in game in conjunction with striker assault rifle

#1425
kingvenom41392

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Krantzstone wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

I really doubt they're going to alter the way they ban people just because a few of them might actually be so ignorant that they can't figure out that shooting insta-kill rockets over and over in every match is exploiting. And we wouldn't be able to tell who the ignorant parties are, because everybody can just claim ignorance.

The exact same thing can be said of your suggestion to add a "compiled list" of things that will get you banned to the actual game. People can just claim that they skipped it, or didn't read it, and that they were still ignorant. "Buhhh, but who really READ that? I just wanted to play a game, I didn't want to READ." It'd be a lot of work just to get a message out that wouldn't actually change anything.

The system is as good as it's going to get. My apologies to any players who just plain don't have common sense, but like I said: Ignorance is not innocence. No matter how ignorant you are.


That's unfortunate, because banning innocent people = creating more people who will hate on BioWare and EA.  It also means fewer people playing multiplayer, which means less fun for people who want to play with other people.

The goal shouldn't be to ban as many people as possible, it should be to fix the bugs so that they can't be abused in the first place, even by accident.  Banning people in lieu of fixing the issue simply isn't an option.  Okay, it is an option, but I don't think it's a very good one, especially if the goal is to get more people playing multiplayer, and to get them to continue playing it long after they're finished with the single player.

I don't think it's too difficult for them to create a MOTD for multiplayer that you can't easily skip through (like many EULA dialog boxes) to ensure that at the very least, people have _skimmed_ through the latest news, and if people skip reading it, even after seeing a 'Important Message for Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer Players Regarding Bannable Offenses', then it's at least the player's fault for skipping reading something that important and their own fault if they get ban-hammered.  What's not okay is liberally applying the bans without warning to people who may not have read the forums, or for whatever reason may not even have access to the forums (remember how wonky the BioWare/EA/Origin account system became after consolidation?).  This is especially important for Xbox 360 players because Microsoft doesn't allow internet browsing via Live Gold, so that means no reading of forums for 360 players unless they also have access to a laptop or some other internet-connected device from which to read them.  I wouldn't even bring this up if one of the terms for playing ME3 multiplayer was that you agreed to read the forums on a regular basis, but I'm pretty sure that's not one of the requirements for playing multiplayer that I remember reading when I installed the game.

As well, I'd sooner they temporarily disabled glitchy weapons, classes, etc. so that people can't even accidentally abuse a glitch, than see people get banned for accidentally setting off a glitch.

I've been an admin on online multiplayer games before, and I know quite well the satisfaction to be gained in catching cheaters and punishing them, but I also remember it being an annoying, frustrating and time-consuming thing to constantly have to be suspicious of players, to spend considerable time trying to distinguish between a cheater who is deliberately abusing a bug and a clueless newbie who simply didn't know any better, and often the rules I was expected to enforce were ones that could just as simply have been hard-coded into the game to be impossible to do, rather than having admin dedicated solely to prevent people from doing something the game mechanics are allowing people to do.  While it's more work for coders, ultimately it's a better solution than having to pay people solely to police the game.

Leaving bugs in a game, particularly ones that give cheaters a massive advantage/incentive to abuse, and then hoping people will stop abusing them just by threatening people with the ban-hammer, is not exactly a tenable position for a software company to be in.  And if blanket bannination is inadvertently penalizing perfectly innocent players, well guess what?  That's one less paying customer who won't be buying future BioWare/EA products.  That's not a sound business model any way you look at it, and it has a considerable negative impact on the good name of the company.  And all it takes is for one popular gaming blogger to get caught up in a blanket ban to start a huge crapstorm about it on the internet to see the entire thing get blown totally out of proportion.

And really, I would happily do without my precious Falcon VI for a while if it meant not having to worry that I'll accidentally glitch and get banned for 'cheating' that I wasn't even trying to do anyway.  And what has this current wave of the ban hammer accomplished, except to get people start accusing other players of cheating _solely_ for having a Falcon as their weapon in the game lobby?  I'm sure there's a whole bunch of people who started playing multiplayer who just got their shiny new rare Falcon and were itching to try it out, but every time they enter a lobby they get kicked (and aren't even told why), or accused of cheating, etc.  That sort of suspicion harms the ME3 multiplayer gaming community, and that does impact how people perceive the game, especially if they don't even understand _why_ people are acting this way.

I only know now because I finally started reading the forums, and for all I know the times I've been kicked before were entirely to do with my using my Falcon, and not, as I assumed, because people were just being jerks. ;P


thank you for being one of the few people with half a brain and some commen sense on these issues as bioware staff clearly havent a clue