142 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghoulishtie]

I REALLY hope this is what is happening, and that the DLC WILL be free.

[Skypezee]

ticklefist wrote...

I think it's very likely we'll see a new ending now based off indoctrination theories. I just don't know if I'll ever believe it was teh plan all along or just an easy way back in that shifts the blame from themselves to "faithless" fans.

Some of the bitter tweets that came out shortly after release certainly didn't seem like there was more than meets the eye. They just seemed angry and scornful. Mac Walters in particular.

From what I heard on certain rumors is that because the ending was leaked in the original script they didn't have time to make a new one. So they came up with a new plan and will be working on a DLC/expansion that will give us the true ending... And based on certain tweets, it may be affected by the choice we made prior to the credits.

Again, those are just the rumors that have been floating around.

Most BioWare peeps are weaving around the issue while others, such as Jessica Merizan, give me the impression that there really is something going on and that any strange events throughout the game plus the endings aren't what they seem. And with threads like this, I'm starting to notice how things just don't add up.

[Spyre2001]

classic Denial. Your knocked out by the beam why bother indoctrinating you? They just want your body you don't have to be alive if the "Shepard is special" argument even held much weight.

The ending is just really bad writing and graphical clues are just artist over sights or people seeing things that aren't really intended to be there. Like seeing shapes in the clouds. It's typical of fans to point out continuity errors in movies and tv shows. Except they understand them to be simple over sights. Here fans want a different ending so badly they are seeing things that aren't there in hopes BW will claim them as fact and give them a new ending.

Also I don't know about you but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced I'd be pissed to find out that it was a dream and BW already had DLC planned. It would mean they intentionally hurt us just to be able to comfort us for their own amusement. That's what abusive spouses do. Oh and they tell you it's your fault.

They already charged us for a key story line character on day 1. Somehow I doubt they will give us "True Ending" DLC in which it was all a dream for free. You guys have too much faith in BW. The old BW that gave use such epics as KOTOR, DA:O, and ME1 is dead and gone. Now there is only EA-BW which has been indoctrinated. The old BW that you have so much faith in would of never let this ending out the door which shows how far they have fallen.

I've lost all faith in BW. After DA2 I was pleased to hear that EA let them extend the release date for ME3, meaning it wouldn't be rush the way DA2 was. DA franchise is dead to me no clue if they have DA3 in works and don't care. Got very little interest in ME3 DLC unless it's FREE Fixed ending then I'll considering buying the other DLC.

ME4 assuming they make it at some point down the road I won't even bother to look at if they leave ME3 ending the way it is. No one wants to go on another emotional roller coaster ride like we just did with this trilogy knowing there is a very good chance you'll get shafted at the end. I see ME4 and the franchise as a whole turning more into a Gears/Halo thing that they will try and milk for money, it's obvious they are already marketing to that crowd.

ME3 combined with DA2 is such an insult I don't even wanna support any of their products. Some friends and I were looking for a new MMO and were considering TOR but I've told them now I'm not getting it. And I was a fan of C&C:Generals which for some reason BW is working on C&C:G2 (An RTS!?!?) so given a studio that's gone down hill on what their were good at trying a new genre I have serious doubts. I was simply skeptical before, now I'm cynical and not even gonna bother following it.

I guess for the time being I'll continue to "Hold the line" as people keep saying. But at some point Denial turns to Acceptance. And at that point if BW hasn't "FIXED THIS" me and many others will out the door with no plans to ever return. Bioware has gone from being a Blizzard type company to an Atari type. For those that don't know Atari tends to screw up everything.

[Arokel]

Liedral wrote...

This picture really blew me away .  A picture of the beams alone would have been pretty compelling but adding the tank has me depserately wanting to believe.

[SirKillsalot]

It just makes no sense that the game would be so perfectly constructed right up untill the last 10 minutes, and then it just goes insane.

[clutzo the hopless]

With thinly veiled pessimism: given the rocky writing in other portions of the game, I worry about the validity of the "Indoctrination Theory." Don't get me wrong, it seems feasible, and I hope it's what the creative team intended. But there were moments throughout the ME3 story that made me feel the existence of plot holes in the endings are not enough to discount their "face value" implications. CAUTION: more spoilers!!!!!

Cerberus dumps loads of resources into a needlessly sophisticated humanoid synthetic for a simple espionage mission to retrieve Crucible plans from Mars. But now EDI gets a body! Yay!

Mordin claims the continuous dispersal of the Genophage Cure via the Shroud is the only means of administering treatment to the entire Krogan population. It promptly explodes. Something of an obstacle when it comes to continuous dispersal. But Mordin has a heroic scene! Yay!

Geth programs exist independent of their hardware platforms, and Geth servers are capable of greater processing power than their combat frames. Yet the Reapers choose to utilize the Legion platform to "amplify their control signal" rather than a more direct route to the Geth like the nodes. But we get to save Legion! Yay!

Furthermore, the name "Legion" refers to the roughly 1100 Geth programs housed in a damaged platform Shepard discovered in ME2, and when that platform returned to the concensus, all data should have been disseminated and shared with all other progams. The direct transfer of all data was supposed to make all Geth personalities identical, barring slight coding errors like those of the Geth Heretics. Legion should not need to sacrifice anything. But, he has a heroic moment! Yay!

Shepard utilizes a targeting laser to guide both the Normandy and an orbital strike by the Quarian Fleet against a Reaper, and that's the last we see of it. But, we get to find new, more dangerous ways of defeating Destroyers! Yay!

There are quite a few other examples of strange inconsistencies within the story arc. I still LOVE THIS GAME!!!!! And I praise Bioware for giving us ONE OF THE MOST KICKASS SCI-FI FRANCHISES, EVER! But I'm still not entirely convinced about the bizarre endings being part of a greater scheme....

[Spyre2001]

SirKillsalot wrote...

It just makes no sense that the game would be so perfectly constructed right up untill the last 10 minutes, and then it just goes insane.

Yea it does

docs.google.com/document/d/1x--TZYVugoFsOd0v1gWqqfhhsvq-_Mgk7YfJrHiifMQ/edit

The literal translation is…

“A writer has created a franchise, but he doesn't own the legal rights
to what will happen to the franchise, the
publisher/network/studio/whatever does. Or maybe he/she shares the
rights with someone else and just doesn't have as much control as he/she
likes. They want to stop writing it and move on to something else. But
they don’t want anyone else being able to handle his property, even
though they don’t legally own it and even if they did own the franchise, what happens when their kids get their hands on the franchise after their inevitable Author Existence Failure?
The solution? Torch the Franchise and Run. Write one last story that
totally wrecks everything. They kill off everyone they possibly can.
They make the lives of all of the characters a living hell before
executing them. They make 100% sure that everyone is dead, and those
that aren't have no way of returning to the status quo or main premise
of the show. Essentially the authorial version of breaking your own toys so that nobody else can play with them.”

[Kiara]

Omg I don't care if it is a DLC coming out and it is paid one.. I just want to know this ending isn't the real one. I want to know what happened, to make sense of the ending... they just have to.

Bioware is still not addressing this clearly so it leads me to believe you could be right... there is something to the ending.. and they are not what they seem,

But still wasn't it said they this game was the end for Shepard? Shepard's story was over? or are they just kidding? man.. I hope so...

[RunAway ItzJack]

I believe this fits. Shepard's will(and possibly cybernetic upgrades) is probably strong enough to resist indoctrination in the traditional method. Harbinger's trying to get him to willingly serve the Reapers, control and synthesis are what the reapers want. Destroy is an act of defiance and is the final push in his mind to not be indoctrinated.

[essarr71]

I always wondered whatever happened to the "big reveal" about Shepard. I figured it'd come when watching vids about the Lazarus Project. The fact that it never happened certainly makes me wonder.. Certainly supports the conjecture here about the ending being an indoctrination experience.

[N7Raider]

squee365 wrote...

not to mention The control/synthesis ending has Shepard's eyes turn into TIM/Saren's eyes. AKA indoctrinated eyes.

plus if you pick control the camera pans over to the space brat and it really does look like he smirks, compared to the destroy ending where he just dissapears once you shoot the machine.  

[MzAdventure]

So the best I can hope for right now is I'm an idiot and Bioware is unspeakably cruel?

[Skypezee]

essarr71 wrote...

I always wondered whatever happened to the "big reveal" about Shepard. I figured it'd come when watching vids about the Lazarus Project. The fact that it never happened certainly makes me wonder.. Certainly supports the conjecture here about the ending being an indoctrination experience.

The vids about the Lazarus Project never struck me as the big reveal about Shepard since with ME2 we basically have an idea of what had happened and how they managed to reconstruct Shepard. We knew that it took a lot of money to do so. The fact that TIM made sure that there were more sympathetic faces along with familiar people on Shepard's crew doesn't really strike me as a "big reveal" either.

.... You know, since Cerberus used cybornetics to bring back Shepard, is it possible that the cybornetic parts are also reaper parts as well? I mean EDI is part reaper design too.... I may be grasping at straws here though.

There has to be something more to this because from the moment Shepard and his/her team got ambushed by Harbinger, things started to no longer make sense. I would keep saying that it's poor writing and things got rushed... maybe it's partly true... but after thinking about it how can you go from really good writing to all of a sudden really bad writing for the last 10 minutes of the game?

[shamE12]

MustacheManatee wrote...

I really feel the ending is what we want it to be. Bioware loves leaving certain story elements to our imagination, and really, I am totally fine with that. As long as you make the correct choice at the end, it's actually a very appropriate ending.
No need to "believe" in DLC, as it's bound to incorporate the feelings of the fans. Casey Hudson has already said that they have great multiplayer, and single player DLC coming, and that fan input WOULD be taken into account. I wouldn't hold out hope for new or alternate endings, but perhaps more hints and clues as to what the ending could mean.
Everyone at Bioware seems really happy with the buzz being created by the ending. If the fans really wanted it changed, a resounding "MEH" would have been more effective. All this news and publicity is keeping ME3 in the news. This is exactly what EA and Bioware want.
Use your imagination, and your logic, and accept the ending for what it is. An artistic choice.

If thats how it actually ends then the "artistic choice" will destroy the fan base that bioware spent 5 years making. Theres no way you end the trilogy like that doesn't make sense.....

[Spyre2001]

Skypezee wrote...

There has to be something more to this because from the moment Shepard and his/her team got ambushed by Harbinger, things started to no longer make sense. I would keep saying that it's poor writing and things got rushed... maybe it's partly true... but after thinking about it how can you go from really good writing to all of a sudden really bad writing for the last 10 minutes of the game?

It's quite simple really. Once you have well established characters who's goals and motives are outlined it's easy to run them along a path to their natural conclusion. Pretty much everything that happen in ME3 was foreshadowed in ME2 and was obvious to play out. I found the ending to be the only real surprise in terms of character development.

Few details like the Asari having that beacon, quarians starting the war with geth, and genophage cure double cross option were a surprise. But mostly they were just fleshing out details along a path that felt set in stone back in ME2.

Even geth and Quarians making up. You could easily find tons of people pre-ME3 saying they helped legion hoping in the future there would be a chance to make peace with the Geth. This and many other plot lines were already well under way so it was simply a matter of bringing them to their logical conclusion based on what the player chooses.

However the ultimate fate of Shepard and how the Reapers were defeated was left largely up in the air. This meant after the original writers left the new ones were free to make up whatever they wanted. And this is where they failed to jump the shark.

People keep acting like Bioware is a single person with a singular vision. But they are a company made up of a lot of people. When curtain key people who were steering that vision leave the company than new people come in change course to where they want to go.

This is why I cringe every time EA or any other large publisher buys up a development studio. The new bosses impose their vision on the staff which ultimately rubs a lot of people the wrong way. And you usually end up with major restructuring of the people there. So the name is the same but it's not really the same company because it's the people that make the company.

I'm not saying their bad people, they just don't have the same vision on where things should go as those who were present before the buy out. Thus it's bound to rub a lot of fans the wrong way when the direction of a franchise make a huge deviation.

[MustacheManatee]

^ This is an excellent point!

[MustacheManatee]

A fantastic video explaining the indoctrination theory.

[SirKillsalot]

Further proof imo.

[KorPhaeron]

nope

http://social.biowar...index/9999272/1

[Bacusan]

I don't know if anybody else noticed this two things:

-The gun you carry during the end is the gun that Andersn uses when telling everyone to run to the beam (besides the unlimited ammo)
-How on earth is your ear pice working when all of your gear was ****ed uo by the laser from harby

[hand-o_death547]

MustacheManatee wrote...

A fantastic video explaining the indoctrination theory.

That is a good vid, I just hope we get some good FREE endings soon.....

[MustacheManatee]

The evidence certainly continues to pile up.

[Malanek]

Good post, OP. I really think you should add in the codex entry on indoctrination. To me that is the single most obvious clue in the game.

Also it would be great if as many people as possible vote in the poll in my signature. Interesting to see how many people believe in this.

Modifié par Malanek999, 16 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[MustacheManatee]

I certainly considered adding the codex, as well as all the innuendo the dialogue uses. Like Joker saying you are "practically half machine now." At this point there is so much evidence that has been found, it's amazing. Seems like there is something new everyday.

[MustacheManatee]

Just voted in your poll, and it looks like the indoctrination theory is holding strong at 80% or so.