Maybe I'm just weird but the ending was nice (imho) and left universe/franchise extremely open to new stories/titles. With passing of time and evolving technology as a factor, also as fondness of space based titles viewed from the perspective of first steps into the unknown or new beginnings I am partial to both ends of the scale.
Reason why I liked it (Pre-EC)
I liked it (although the format of final choice has been done many times before and there is always ways to make things better as with pretty much everything in life, room for improvement).
- I loved from Anderson and Shepard sitting together near the end. It was a touching moment.
- The scenery walking down towards your fate as the battle rages outside showing every second walking is taking it's toll on life of others.
- The crew leaving the ship in lush green forest looking up at the sky (especially Ash which was my LI), smiling and looking happy to be alive (I like to think fondly remembering my Shepard and their love for each other). On a land so far away and an adventure about to begin to trying to reach home.
- Seeing Joker and EDI together where they can be together, a bond present since ME2.
- The music and soundtrack to the game even the end music.
- Shepard giving everything he has to save everyone after being hit by the Reaper near the end, the feeling that he gave it his all and saved the ones he loved while bleeding to death and barely hanging on to life and regardless of the outcome.
- The final scene on the planet with nice scenery looking at the moon with grandfather and child talking about what once was and the story inspiring the child to reach for the stars (maybe lead character in ME4) and knowing life goes on plus more including imagining how they (my companions) lived out the remainder of their lives, were they happy or sad, did they remember him decades on and will peace remain all sparks imagination.
- I felt all the choices had an impact in the game during the game, the repercussions occur in time but I am gone and not present so naturally I do not or would not know how things turn out for everyone.
- I liked how TiM reacted and what he says as he looks at the Earth after my actions too when I shot him.
- You were told the game would provide closure to elements brought up in the first two. This was done in the game rather than the ending and I felt they accomlished it very well. You will never get 100% closure on everything because the outcomes are infinite over time. You make choice x save it saves y (closure), he goes on and lives happy life or sad one (closure), he had a child and that child went on and lived his life (closure) again and goes on forever.
- It feels like a title/game that shows more than most others implies the journey matters most rather than the destination and last five or ten minutes of the game and I am happy with that.
- The choices I had hard time choosing which to do and that is good, I RP as my character in those situations and that world. I do not play as a god controlling his every actions and knows every consequence. Played it through his eyes and it was good for that reason and why I had a back and forth between choices/platforms at end as I struggled to pick one.
My ending of choice (Control) and why still like it (Post-EC).
The galaxy has never lived anymore freely prior to my ending chosen than after control ending picked. If not the Reapers, then the council, if not the council then your own governments and authorities. Hell even your mother or father if want to go that far. Your always following someones rules or someones laws. There is always someone to keep you inline or out to punish you when break those rules and laws. In my ending I did not 'control' the galaxy anymore than the council always has meaning while I might be a leader of large military force (one that more often than not is used primarily to help rebuild what was destroyed), so is every world government and council itself controls such forces. Just in this case mine is stronger but as said it was only ever used to protect those who could not protect themselves.
Mine never interfered in general galaxy politics he just let them get on with whatever they wanted from the council to the worlds all the way down to the individuals on each planet were all just 'as free' as were before I took control of the Reapers. Everyone goes about their lives as normal as free as ever was only if they try to start a war I stop it and this does not mean wiping out planets or races. It is threat of conflict with my forces used and if does not work I merely take out the leader or go after the individual leaders behind the war. Just like council would do and just like my Shepard would do even if did not have an army to back him up. The only time ever interviene in my ending is when a war is about to break out I put a stop to it even if that just means the threat of conflict with my forces rather than actual resorting to ever firing a single weapon.
People keep using the term Shreaper but I could be a tellitubbie in my new form for lack of what it matters. What I do is more important and what I did I explained. Regardless of who I am, everything remains the same as I described in my endgame. Every race is alive, everyone is as free as ever was. I (whoever I may be) is protecting all races and the only freedom I took away was the right to wipe out another species or mass murder each other on whims. Everyone carries on their lives, the galaxy is still run by the races in it, I only step in to prevent war and use mere threat of conflict first which if fails only individuals are brought to justice not wiping out races or planets.
Trust can be built upon over centuries, millenia or however long around for. Once helped rebuild they will not be hanging around street corners chatting with people, they will only come out to prevent wars and mass murder as a last resort. First like said by way of threat of conflict with them if do not stop in attempting to commit genocide on another species or groups trying to start wars. Out of sight out of mind when not doing such. Their only purpose once I became the whatever wish to call me is to protect species, prevent war and prevent genocide. Self preservation of all races and all species includes protection of themselves.
Not by means of mass harvesting or butchering species. It goes for all races and governments, if war is their intention it is no different to a terrorist group. No war will be allowed, not governments and not Reapers. The ones behind the plot will be stopped but only the ones behind it. Just like if they tried to create weapons to attack another race the ones behind that as individuals would be stopped by minimum force possible. The Reapers are a race now in my ending no different to Geth or Humans. All are protected including the Reapers from war which includes no mass culling of Reapers based on individal peoples personal beliefs trying to dicate which race should live or die in mine they all live including Reapers. No government leaders or scientists will be allowed to create weapons for the sole purpose of killing another species including the Reapers. Individuals are responsable not entire races and not worlds. Only the ones wanting to start a war will be held accountable.
You can distrust someone or something without trying to kill it. As for investigations into who is trying to start wars that is quite simple really. A recruitment drive for those who wish to help, civilians of all races willing to assist in keeping the peace in the galaxy and there are many such people. Volunteering by free will to aid the strongest force in the galaxy to help keep peace, knowing all the facts about what that means (proximity to Reaper tech) then helping search out such things. Can have people all over the place passing back information. I am sure I can convince Liara (my one as opposed to your one) to help too using her network. Helping rebuild will be first step in gaining a little trust if required and stopping the genocides, wars and mass murders by council races against other council species will build favor with those races extremely fast which will happen over time. Plus the supplying of aid in form of resources will too.
Trust is not required. Lack of action is far worse. For every second you faff around making no choice, taking no action; more people are dying. Sitting back and doing nothing just because you do not trust someone is putting your own personal feelings above the lives of every single other living entity in the galaxy. You are free to sit there and do nothing, bicker with an AI as that in itself is a choice but a bad one, placing your own feelings and morality above that of every other living being.
Lets say 50 billion people in the galaxy would rather be alive and make some form of sacrifice rather than dead but due to your unwillingness to compromise your personal principles, your condeming them all because you as (a single person in an entire galaxy of living entities) think earning your trust is more important than their lives. Thats how I see it personally. As shown even on here among a very tiny sample amount of people compared to the trillions who would exist in that galaxy, vast amounts of people on here would make one of the other choices so their principles and their feelings are not the same as yours. You would be condeming all those people to death because you think your feelings or principles are more important than theirs.
My Shepard was a man of action, a soldier. He will always pick the best choice available or offered and take the best action he can in any given situation. He made the best out of the situation he found himself in to save as many lives as he could just like has been doing from the moment I took control of him in ME1, throughout ME2 and just like in ME3 the same. What happens after is out of his control, only the choices presented with could he take action on. So while I don't have to agree with the reasoning and logic behind the choices, those were the only choices remaining to take action on in order to try to save lives so I picked the one that I believe will save as many lives as possible regardless of if I am right or wrong. My Shepard does not know the future, he is not the player who knows the outcomes before making choices, he is just a person within that universe, that situation at that time. He made the best choice he could given the situation found himself in.
Too many people here forget it is a roleplaying game with a limited framework of how the story is told just like every single game ever made. I roleplayed as Shepard making choices through his existance in that universe within that limited framework of choices available and he picked the best he could to save as many as he could just like everyone does both in games and reality they make the best choices they can from the choices available. I might like to fly like superman but that choice is not available in real life, in the case of Shepard in his situation such a choice is also not available, in life if I knew the outcome of future events I might make different choices, but neither in life or in game roleplaying Shepards perspective do I know what the future holds so I make best choice I can with what choice there is.
Additional exposition of my stance (based on aspects/things other people asked me)...
Like I have said in the past I do not treat any game not even ME franchise as a dictionary or thesaurus, a biography or documentary or require everything to be answered. I treat it as a form of entertainment. In that it succedded and hence the enjoyment. I also have stated you will never get 100% closure on everything. How much is enough is subjective. If you require facts to enjoy your games as opposed to emotional response to enjoy a game then so be it but as a form of entertainment it did just fine by me and I have been a long time member of Biowares community and purchaser of their titles like many others.
The choices mattered to me where it counted which was part of the 45 hours I spent playing the game prior to the end, the final choice was mere icing on a cake and not the be all and end all of everything that I did prior. As long as whatever option or choice or lack of gave an emotional conclusion to the end of the trilogy then I was content and happy with that, as said the choices for me were covered in everything leading up to that point the ending required emotional impact. Since what matters to me the choices having an impact in the game prior to reaching the end, my own personal desire was for the end to just cover the emotional element to finish off. It did that for me, I did not feel the need to know everything that happens to everyone after or need every missing link attached. ME3 did an amazing job of clearing up choices from the past two games and even some amazing choices through the rest of ME3.
The climax for me meaning the ending just needed an emotional farewell send off to my Shepard via the end of a trilogy and it did well in that regard for myself. I have no problems with people who disliked the ending I just wished they showed those who did some respect and acknowledgment instead of snide remarks and retaliation for liking what they did not. I created a thread expressing my love of the ending and a thanks to Bioware for giving me something I greatly enjoyed and I saw but it is a shame I got attacked so often after I created it out of what I assume was fear my love of something others did not would somehow diminish there "everyone" hates it stance. I felt I had to keep stressing the emotional requirement in what stated here because far too often people assume I am wrong for enjoying it when I clearly had different expectations and desires for this part fo the game instead.
The majority of what some of us wished to clear up from the past two titles was done so during the game prior to the ending and we did get to make some major choices and see their immediate impact during the game. Why is it so wrong to desire less a need for yet more clarification right at the end when at the end the most important element is an emotional farewell to the character we loved first and foremost. If we felt such emotion at the end then it fulfilled what we desired and if the game was entertaining it fulfilled it's reason for existing in the first place.
I have zero issue with DLC (optional) as solution for those who do not like or had not enjoyed it but I ask they show some respect and reason in what they ask for and how they ask for it and do not force patch over what it is I loved since optional method does not ruin something for someone else out of spite when both can gain enjoyment if keep optional. I also happen to like DE:HR and is also in my list for best of past year titles. There is nothing wrong with using a DE format ending, the exposition argument is subjective and infinite in how much exposition each person sets as their own personal requirement for enjoyment too.
None of this changes the fact all games have a framework which allows a story to be told but the story is always theirs (developers) to tell within that framework of choices they allow and some allow for no choices while other offer more (that is a creators prerogative and not something they owe you or me). It also does not change that it is far more healthy to view games as they are meant to be, a form of entertainment not an oxygen supply or requirement for eternal happiness and there will always be elements in almost all games one likes or dislikes. Take it as it is and gain what enjoyment you can but keep it realistic in that no game will fulfill your every desire.
The ending to TW2 was not perfect or amazing to myself either but the choices affecting the impact during the game was, just as is the case for the period during 95% of ME3 was the case. TW2 did also not tie up all loose ends and exposition given was not perfect but overall the game was epic despite this as is (imho) ME3. Skyrim another great game again where the ending tied up almost nothing (referring to the civil war aspect instead of dragons) as the game continues as thought it had no impact but this does not destroy the quality of the game itself overall. I will also state that all games including ME1 and ME2 left elements to the imagination and as a way to tell stories this has always been the case even though it appears some do not acknowledge the fact they had to use their imagination in previous titles because they are controlled by emotions right now, even most of the debating going on here since the dawn of ME has been reliant on imagination of what x, y or z means or could of been.
It didn't go wrong for me, it did what I wanted it to do. Emotional component to finale of the game not spreadsheet of facts and general knowledge about everything or database, wall charts or epilogue cards to sum up what have seen prior. The only things I wanted from this game was choices that showed clear impact during the game (it did this even if you do not like the outcome of some of those choices), provide many dialogue choices through the game (they pulled that off okay with me), good overall story plus combat entertaining (succeeded imho) and make the final farewell to the character in an emotional way for the end (which did).
A simple difference in expectations and desires for the product even though I have played Bioware's games as long as most people here. 95% of the game I loved and 5% I liked or was okay with. Overall it makes it in the list of top four of games I liked in past year. I did not buy the game because was advertised as closure to everything. I bought a game to continue the story of the previous two I bought (in fact I bought multiple copies of both previous two titles as I do with all Bioware games including DAO and DA2 as well on different formats). I also did not buy it for these so called 16 endings, I bought it knowing would have an ending of which it did just some people do not like that ending. Every Bioware title has required some use of imagination, all titles produced have plot holes, I did not fool myself into thinking this one would be immune to such.
With regard to the endings impact of each choice, I did not play as an all seeing god like overlord who had all the answers and knew all the outcomes prior to making choices but instead I role played through the eyes of my Shepard, regardless of each outcome they were seen as specific to the end of that characters story. That character did not know what would of happened if picked a or b if he actually picked c. Each to him was individual and the impact unique through his eyes so when I play it, I role play it as in see it through the eyes of my character not an overlord god approach who knows it all. In that sense so knowing everything is not important to my character for example each choice at the end is unique to each Shepard because he does not know the outcome of the other choices as he never picked them himself.
I find those who use the space magic term to attack another's view quite silly.
Stand in front of a cave man with planted C4 a mile away using a detonator to activate it, to the cave man it appears to be magic. The same principle with even the smallest of things such as a lighter starting fires. It is constantly reminding the player through out the game that even though they have the plans they do not know what it does, lack of understanding of something that's more advanced. Every race that found a relay did not understand how they worked to begin with and they were vastly more advanced than the own species technology, same with Prothean beacons jumping a civilizations knowledge in leaps and bounds. The Reapers also more advanced and people do not know everything about how they work down to each and every square centimetre of the ship.
What I mean is just because you do not understand something does not mean it's not possible or that it's actually magic and I personally did not need to know how to take apart and rebuild a relay or the normandy to be satisfied with believing they are possible to exist in that universe. As said I am not interested in the game becoming a documentary encyclopedia or biography even dictionary or thesaurus. Not all technology has to be explained to me to enjoy the game of which stated in first post but people are choosing to ignore that statement in order to further their own agendas.
With regard to plot holes I also addressed this as there are ways to get your head around elements, using imagination and interpretation. It is just the case some people either do not want to think about it and want to see or do it and others who refuse to change from the stance of "if they do not agree with me then they are wrong". That stubborn and arrogant reaction is detrimental to the social element of this site being if you refuse to believe or be open to another's opinion then your just saying the same thing over and over again with an element of "trolololo, I can't hear you. <fingers in ears>" which is not a good thing for discussions or debate about the games most of us love.
In all previous games people have had to think about and imagine why somethings happen or what something means, each and every ME title had this so I find it surprising how bitter some are over having to continue doing such in this title. Most of the threads created on the site have been theoretic in nature from the offset and has been a bonus to debating and discussion because of that, not an offense to require such in the games.
I will also point out every single title in ME has also had plot holes, this is not something new yet some people are treating as such. Lastly I will state again if what some people are looking for is an encyclopedia of instead of a video game then that's up to them but for myself I was looking for something both entertaining and that had some emotional impact (ME3 ticked these boxes for me). I spent the same amount of money as most people who dislike it and been a fan of Bioware as long as most people here so implying those who do like the ending are in any way, shape or form less fans compared to themselves they would be gravely mistaken and so much so that they don't realise most of us have spent and invested more time and money into Bioware and their products than some of those making such claims.
I have to admit now that I find the 'holding the line' movement is redundant because as mentioned elsewhere they have won nothing that they would not of got anyways. They would of got this mentioned additional content regardless just from constructive feedback which Bioware always asks for. The boycotts, the threats, the review bombing, the filing complaints with the FTC, emotional and financial blackmail, the aggression and arrogance of many (not all) was pointless. All feedback is asked for and upon which they would of created DLC to address such things as they always do even when remove all the nonsense people did in this case. It is essentially a gimmick to make them feel better not affect change, change they would of got from feedback alone in first place like all titles Bioware makes do the same. Wait for feedback and apply it to DLC.
I also should add that I am offended by the actions of many regarding the ending due to there is a hypocritical element to many of the stances in that many of those same people who pushed for changes in this case (ending) which have severe and I do mean severe issues with meta-gaming and there has been truly large disdain when such topics as adding multiplayer to single player RPG's, anime series and influenced figurines or allowing the fans to choose the appearance of FemShep they hissed and they moaned how just because it's popular to other potential customers en masse (more so than current fanbase in number) like such features or did not match their own preferences... The moment it is something they want they praise and use the same thing they hated in order to get what they want. In fact many of them kept saying how during the FemShep aspect that it should be left to Bioware and not the fans and now they changed their tune because their feelings were hurt. Where I am offended in respect of many of their actions and responses and not the mere principle of leaving polite, constructive feedback which would of led to the same additional content without all the disdain, bile and vicious methods some of them used.
Those who dislike the endings who are part of retake have to remember something which is as a group of people they cannot decide a set solution to the problem and it should always remain in the hands of the developer and based on feedback... Because it is a group made up of many people with different goals from some who want a complete rewrite to the endings, some who want some rewriting but not other elements, some who want expansion to what exists already and other who want expansion prior to the end relating to assets, some who want epilogue style content mere exposition on what currently exists, some who want indoctrination and others who do not plus others who want 16 endings or some that want just one additional ending (the happy kind). The only thing keeping the group even together is your dislike of what currently exists and nothing more. You have no unique and specific goal that ties in with what others within the group want. This is why Bioware should not have for example the retake movement decide what to do but instead should do what they want while just listen to various concerns which is something they have always done in the form of feedback.
They should not make decisions based on majority or consensus, focus groups or polls else there would not have been a ME franchise and they would not be making RPGs'. They would make more money by appealing to a different audience, a larger one. They do these titles because they love these sorts of games not because you demand it. I do realise if they did as many of you are asking then you would not even be here in the first place. You make a poll then use that poll as basis to demand change based on popular opinion. If you wish to go down that route and rely on Bioware making decisions based on popular opinion then they would not be making RPG's right now, they would not have probably made ME franchise and if they did it certainly would not have been an RPG.
Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 novembre 2012 - 10:44 .
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