498 réponses à ce sujet

[fafnir magnus]

Thanks for the good read OP, thinking back the destroy option is actually pretty pretty complex from a moral-choice stand point, especially for those who did a pure paragon that brokered peace between quarian and geth. I think that ending would have been more tolerable for me if it hadn't necessitated the destruction of the mass relays. I still don't understand why the destruction of the relays is inevitable, although I suppose them being the vector of transmitting and executing your decisions makes sense. Still, once again I find myself left with a lack of in-game non-codex info to give a little more hope about how things will pan out. The destruction caused by the relay transmission are pretty nasty, and at some point I'm going to look back to see what major planets actually would survive that mass extinction event.

I think my absolute deal breaker that is all I have left is why shepard is still alive for some after the destruction ending. The mass relays very clearly cause some damage when they're used to destroy the reapers, as the pulse sends the Normandy into a crash landing. The scale of this explosion is left to speculation, but evidence dictates it would probably destroy anything in the same solar-system as the relay itself. This means that earth would be destroyed in all likelihood, along with most of the Sol System. How, then, does shepard come back to life in this wreckage? I enjoyed the soft-science resurrection in ME 2, but this just felt like they're struggling to leave room for an ME 4 and expansion DLC, which is a major contradiction with the tone of finality that punctuates the ending to a series.

[Dragoonlordz]

VoodooDrackus wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

In my playthrough they still exist. I merely made them retreat. Up until that point they really were force of terror. But like always the terror is always in how the weapon is used rather than the existance of the weapon itself, it is probably more terrifying that such a force was being controlled by a single AI, though I personally believe within the chain they are capable of independant thought and actions as long as carry out the overriding goal.

Personally I am more inclined to believe the relays imploded as opposed to exploded pushing the majority of the force inwards not outwards, or that the energy which is relating to the codex entry about when they explode is converted for the purpose of the pulse wave, that altered energy wave does not carry the same consequences as the original and it's purpose could be to relay whatever choice you make to the Reapers in the other parts of the galaxy. I consider these mere possiblities but I have no problems doing so because for me the ending sparked my imagination which I consider a blessing not a curse as far to often these days when everything holds your hand and explains it all away after such is done the game becomes worthless as there is not as much left to think about. Those titles get turned off and not played again for me.

I had no problem overall but did notice the fact it did feel like copy paste of DE:HR relating to how was handled which is not the end of the world to me as I liked DE:HR. I think it was a bit cliché to use what has already been used before especially so recently but it is for me not the be all and end all. 

Yes. Since the cores contain Element Zero which is used in biotics, that energy is being used to send out biotic waves that can have the effect you chose on organic/synthetic/reaper technology.
You have been using biotic power, seeing it used, throughout all 3 games. Biotic powers can rip apart the mass of something, hold things in stasis, lift things up, etc. Biotics use Element Zero and the crucible is essentially able to do the same thing.

If you look at the arrival supernova explosion, the Element Zero is not focused and creates a devastating explosion.
The Mass Relays at the end of 3 are being used to send out the change to the galaxy and have to be sacrificed in the process to unleash the wave needed. You see the relays speeding up before the Element Zero is unleashed.

I like that it sparks my imagination as well. Kind of reminds me of when I saw Powder and discussed that movie with my friends after. Not sure why I brought that up.

The film with the child who attracts lightning? If so I loved that film. Very heart warming and thoughtful I personally feel.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 25 mars 2012 - 08:07 .

[Eliantariel]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

How long was he or she unconcious at the start of the game? When the Reapers first attacked and was knocked out. Funny how was not a problem then but it is now...What do you mean how did he (Anderson) make it to the beam they never implied noone could make it or that noone did. He arrived before you, he had already probably moved on, this is not a giant leap in assumption. There was a vast amount of times he (Illusive Man) could of got on the Citadel, he was never near you or around you in the first place he was clearly somewhere else as shown be VI link on Cerberus base and he could of been there on the Citadel all along or just snuck on board before the arms closed ot landed prior to you and went into the beam there are multiple ways could of got there or already been there.

At the begin of the game you are knocked out but it was a Reaper attack from outside and no ground forces yet in the room and Anderson on the feet before you. So you weren't exactly surrounded by enemies at this time. At the end around the beam there are enemies and Shepard has to take down Husks and Marauder to get to the beam. And here I always wonder why it is so easy to defeat them considering Shepards condition. But this is maybe just for the dramatic effect.

No, Anderson arrived after you, that is what he told Shepard. These are minor plotholes that you can explain somehow but still the question why they couldn't show it clearer with some extra cutscenes. Why not adding a second hallway or at least a door in the central chamber so we can see where Anderson came from?

So the problem is that all these minor things sum up and leave a strange feeling. At least it was what I got. I couldn't take the ending to serious because I had the strong feeling that it was a kind of hallucination of a dead-near Shepard. And this fits to the breathing Shepard we see at the destroy end if your EMS is high enough. We can argue about if this is stone/rubble from London or Citadel material, but it looks more like the London stone for me than Citadel material that I would expect to be mainly from metal.

And with seeing it as a hallucination there is no real end. And with not seeing it as a hallucination it leaves an end that feels strange because the player has to interpret too many scenes and situations and it feels like opening more questions than answering them. Until the end ME3 was perfect and than the last 10 minutes it feels rushed and if those plotholes are due to laziness.

An other main problem for me is how is TIM even able to control Shepard and Anderson? The reaper could not control Shepard and now TIM can? We don't even know for sure that Shepard has reaper tech inside (I never saw a in game information about that) but Anderson surely hasn't.

And that your squadmates are on the Normandy is strange too - we can assume that the Normandy picked them up but it is not shown. And even then I would wonder about how it is suddenly possible for the Normandy or a shuttle to pick them up near the beam? I don't expect all the Reapers to have suddenly left the beam completely alone and without making sure that no one tries to get through. Even with the ground Reaper dead - we are told in London is the strongest battle and the Reapers are trying to protect the beam (Harbinger himself is coming for that). It is not impossible but unlikely and I wonder why they did not try to get to the beam with a shuttle after destroying the ground Reaper if it is possible to do so.

And concerning the star child: for me he is an enemy, he says himself the Reapers are his solution. How can Shepard even believe anything what he is saying? It could be a trick to let Shepard kill her-/himself. I would have prefered a more epic battle, so like after getting to the crucible activating a kind of weapon that weakens the Reapers and than your fleet has the chance to destroy them. But I think that is just a question of opinion.

And finally: just my opinion but I expected and hoped for an ME style ending where you can decide yourself with your actions and previous decisions how the end plays out, who is alive and who dead and the possibility to have Shepard and friends/LI survive. Well it seems with the breath end that Shepard is alive but separated from the LI and friends that hurts. If the Normandy had at least crushed on earth would have made things better. And no: this is no disney sunshine bunny ending - I don't need a wedding scene or so, but just to know that Shepard maybe alive and in reach of the LI/friends would be great. Doesn't mean that this would be fitting for all Shepards, but for some.

And concerning this is a dark game: ME1 had an happy end, ME2 had an happy end, ME3 without a happy end is unexpected. Both ME1 and ME2 final missions were suicid missions, Shepard against all odds and still it was possible to survive and have a happy end. For those who like dark ends it was possible to have them too. Mass Effect is Shepards story as we were always told, and as a player I am attached to my Shepard and other characters.

So my general problems with the ending summarized:
- a lot of missing scenes that could explain what we currently have to interpret. The ending was for me not satisfying because it felt (taking everything together) more than a hallucination with Shepard alive at the end and all this missing scenes that takes a lot of interpretation. 
- didn't fullfill my expectations: not as epic as I expected with more space battle and more decisions like in ME2 were it was important to have the right squadmates doing specific tasks.
- no "happy" end with the possibility of having both Shepard and LI alive (that is possible in ME3) but together and not separated on different star systems. And I don't think it would be a Disney/sunshine ending to have both together with everything else happening like Citadel exploding and mass relays destroyed.

This means that it is understandable for me that you are happy with the ending we got. If it matches your expectations, if you don't mind to find an explanation for the missing scenes/plotholes or simply don't mind that there are plotholes and if you don't mind to have Shepard and LI separated than congratulations, I really envy you.

[Iwillbeback]

>OP ignores all the plot holes

Sadly I try to find answers, I can only find plot holes.
Bioware are lazy and they rushed to get Mass effect 3 out, so much content missing from previous games.

[Egonne]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

What do you mean how did he (Anderson) make it to the beam they never implied noone could make it or that noone did. He arrived before you, he had already probably moved on, this is not a giant leap in assumption. 

Ummm...okay....well....maybe you should watch the ending again.

Just saying.

They clearly state no one made it to the beam.

KNOWING the ending would be an important part of DEFENDING the ending.

Modifié par Egonne, 25 mars 2012 - 01:18 .

[Forsythia]

I'm quite baffled someone can actually enjoy - or even love - these endings, but hey, at least there's something positive on these forums for once.

[Dragoonlordz]

Forsythia wrote...

I'm quite baffled someone can actually enjoy - or even love - these endings, but hey, at least there's something positive on these forums for once.

Dammit give me some of your icons below your avatar! 

I always wondered what happens when reached end of the row unfortunately owning multiple copies doesnt give me more icons.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 25 mars 2012 - 01:40 .

[EmEr77]

 
"I also happen to like DE:HR and is also in my list for best of past year titles. There is nothing wrong with using a DE format ending, the exposition argument is subjective and infinite in how much exposition each person sets as their own personal requirement for enjoyment too."

This isn't DE. This is Mass Effect. 

I appreciate your opinion, but you do not seem to justify from a critical standpoint why the ending is valid. Unfortunately it does not matter how much you "like" the ending or how "powerful" you thought it was, from a critical standpoint it was flawed, and absolutely not justifiable by any means. I thought the idea of the ending given was absolutely powerful--however, that does not mean I actually agree with the choice to use this ending with regards to THIS story line. 

The idea that "we'll never know anything, it's all hopeless anyway" is an idea that so far only T.S. Eliot has been able to successfully convey through his poem "The Wasteland" and even still, he presented a viable resolution for how Western culture can redeem itself. In Mass Effect we are presented no such option, though we are given the illusion we will through all of the marketing and advertising ("Take Earth Back) and I'm not entirely sure this story line ranks with the test-of-time caliber of a T.S. Eliot work. I believe however in the caliber of writers from BioWare itself, which is why I'm boggled an ending such as this made it past the guantlet of double-checkers, triple-checkers, and so on. 

To name a few discrepancies with the ending:

An armada of aliens is stranded in our solar system, unable to gather the resources to support themselves, which essentially means that everyone who came to fight with us is going to simply starve and die.

Our crew abandoned us, including your love interest at the end of the game. At some point when you are bloody and near death on the way up the Citadel, Joker and your crew decide they are going to abandon the fight, and you, and run--even though the Normandy is leading the charge in the fight against the Reapers around earth. 

The "solution" presented to us by the Star Child is a Diabolus Ex Machina, the counter-part to a Deus Ex Machina, which is frowned upon by literary academics as being a cheap way out for a writer who does not understand the internal logic of their own story. A Deus Ex Machina can effectively be used, but rarely has--and does not work in this instance at all, considering this is a game that is built around actions and repercussions and consequences as a direct result of OUR choices--which is what was advertised to us in the first place. Suddenly we have thrown in this plot device of the Diabolus Ex Machina, that should technically not exist in the structure of this game. The reason being, is that both the Diabolus, and the Deus require a massive suspension of disbelief in order to make it work--when on a foundation of plot-holes and inconsistencies, where we are already unwilling to be persuaded that what is happening before us is true, this plot-device falls apart entirely, and then becomes a cheap way to look at things. 

A couple examples of effective Deus Ex Machinas: 

• At the end of War of the Worlds the invading aliens seem unstoppable, yet they are destroyed by our very own bacteria, because their immune systems do not have the immunity to fight it.
• The Sword of Godric Gryffindor, from Harry Potter.
  

A couple examples of well-used Diabolus Ex Machinas:

• Oedipus - He comes to town and saves it from the sphinx, yes, but in the overall scheme of the story he ends up fulfilling the tragic prophecy laid out to his father, by killing his father (without knowing who he truly is) and marrying his mother (also without knowing who he truly is).
• Donnie Darko 
  

These are just a few things which ultimately sour the ending, and believe it or not there is objectivity with regards to the analysis of literary works even "art," which stems from critically flawed issues on a fundamental level--the rules by which EVERYTHING is created by. Without a firm grasp of the fundamentals everything falls apart, and we get an ending much like this that is jarring, out of place, inconsistent, filled with plot-holes, and leaves the audience with questions that cannot actually be answered by going back and taking a deeper look into the story itself, thus negating the replayability factor entirely.

Modifié par EmEr77, 25 mars 2012 - 04:11 .

[Egonne]

EmEr77 wrote...

 
"I also happen to like DE:HR and is also in my list for best of past year titles. There is nothing wrong with using a DE format ending, the exposition argument is subjective and infinite in how much exposition each person sets as their own personal requirement for enjoyment too."

This isn't DE. This is Mass Effect. 

I appreciate your opinion, but you do not seem to justify from a critical standpoint why the ending is valid. Unfortunately it does not matter how much you "like" the ending or how "powerful" you thought it was, from a critical standpoint it was flawed, and absolutely not justifiable by any means. I thought the idea of the ending given was absolutely powerful--however, that does not mean I actually agree with the choice to use this ending with regards to THIS story line. 

The idea that "we'll never know anything, it's all hopeless anyway" is an idea that so far only T.S. Eliot has been able to successfully convey through his poem "The Wasteland" and even still, he presented a viable resolution for how Western culture can redeem itself. In Mass Effect we are presented no such option, though we are given the illusion we will through all of the marketing and advertising ("Take Earth Back) and I'm not entirely sure this story line ranks with the test-of-time caliber of a T.S. Eliot work. I believe however in the caliber of writers from BioWare itself, which is why I'm boggled an ending such as this made it past the guantlet of double-checkers, triple-checkers, and so on. 

To name a few discrepancies with the ending:

An armada of aliens is stranded in our solar system, unable to gather the resources to support themselves, which essentially means that everyone who came to fight with us is going to simply starve and die.

Our crew abandoned us, including your love interest at the end of the game. At some point when you are bloody and near death on the way up the Citadel, Joker and your crew decide they are going to abandon the fight, and you, and run--even though the Normandy is leading the charge in the fight against the Reapers around earth. 

The "solution" presented to us by the Star Child is a Diabolus Ex Machina, the counter-part to a Deus Ex Machina, which is frowned upon by literary academics as being a cheap way out for a writer who does not understand the internal logic of their own story. A Deus Ex Machina can effectively be used, but rarely has--and does not work in this instance at all, considering this is a game that is built around actions and repercussions and consequences as a direct result of OUR choices--which is what was advertised to us in the first place. Suddenly we have thrown in this plot device of the Diabolus Ex Machina, that should technically not exist in the structure of this game. The reason being, is that both the Diabolus, and the Deus require a massive suspension of disbelief in order to make it work--when on a foundation of plot-holes and inconsistencies, where we are already unwilling to be persuaded that what is happening before us is true, this plot-device falls apart entirely, and then becomes a cheap way to look at things. 

A couple examples of effective Deus Ex Machinas: 

• At the end of War of the Worlds the invading aliens seem unstoppable, yet they are destroyed by our very own bacteria, because their immune systems do not have the immunity to fight it.
• The Sword of Godric Gryffindor, from Harry Potter.
  

A couple examples of well-used Diabolus Ex Machinas:

• Oedipus - He comes to town and saves it from the sphinx, yes, but in the overall scheme of the story he ends up fulfilling the tragic prophecy laid out to his father, by killing his father (without knowing who he truly is) and marrying his mother (also without knowing who he truly is).
• Donnie Darko 
  

These are just a few things which ultimately sour the ending, and believe it or not there is objectivity with regards to the analysis of literary works even "art," which stems from critically flawed issues on a fundamental level--the rules by which EVERYTHING is created by. Without a firm grasp of the fundamentals everything falls apart, and we get an ending much like this that is jarring, out of place, inconsistent, filled with plot-holes, and leaves the audience with questions that cannot actually be answered by going back and taking a deeper look into the story itself, thus negating the replayability factor entirely.

[*]Wow, this is extraordinarily insightful.

[Dragoonlordz]

I see alot recently of people relying on comparing to literary masterpeices and flaws.

Where they see a literary failure, I see an enjoyable game and emotional success.Where they bought it for conclusion and end of the trilogy, I bought it game to merely continue the story of the previous two. Where they bought it for these so called 16 endings, I bought it knowing would have an ending of which it did just some people do not like that ending. Whether someone thinks I am being critical enough does not matter to me, I paid around £30 for a game that lasted 45 hours and of which I gained enjoyment from during that time.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 26 mars 2012 - 09:43 .

[Dragoonlordz]

alleyd wrote...

Agree whole heartedly with you Dragoonlordz. No problems at all with the ending. If that is what it is

Bioware always maintained that Mass Effect was Shepards journey. And Shepard's journey is incomplete. To be continued? I'm hooked for the next installment.

t was great value for money entertainment IMO. I have been with Bioware since the very beginning and can think of few occasions where they have failed to deliver. They have only succeeded in increasing my respect for their product with this release. There was more comedy and pathos in my emotional journey through all three games than in virtually any other medium I can think of.

And I have the added consolation that so many others have been moved to share their passion for the game.

Well your not alone, quite a few people who feel the same have responded in this thread and while not in the same quanity of those who hate the ending you and me are not alone.  Reason I created this thread was to show that while many do apparently hate it there are some specifically myself originally who liked it, I feel many simply do not voice such on here due to the sheer hostility shown on these forums to anyone of a different opinion or stance but at least some have made themselves known in here of feeling the same. Also nice is although some of those rather annoying ones who hate it have appeared in this thread to bicker, many of the ones who dislike the ending and entered have actually been rather reasonable even if a little hot under the collar sometimes.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 mars 2012 - 01:42 .

[cutegigi]

How many liked and how many hate the ending should be easily shown from the poll. dont you think ?

[Chuvvy]

Christ on a stick, I am not reading that entire thing.


That wasn't a crucifixion joke.

Modifié par Slidell505, 29 mars 2012 - 03:21 .

[piemanz]

cutegigi wrote...

How many liked and how many hate the ending should be easily shown from the poll. dont you think ?

Not really, because it's obvious that people who dislike the ending have more reason to come to the forum and vote in polls, especially when they're trying to get something from Bioware.

[panamakira]

I didn't like the ending I got but it's cool to see that other people in BSN enjoy it.

I know the moment you say you like the endings people jump on the chance to tell you how wrong you are. Well that's BS. If you liked the ending good for you!

I just wished I could be part of that group~ :/

[Lavits75]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

VolusvsReaper wrote...

I didn't mind the ending, I wish it had ended slightly different but I knew it wasn't going to end like Star Wars with people dancing and drinking and Ewoks.

To me, if put aside the cliché element was pretty epic. A way to end the trilogy, leave open extra DLC for those who need more but allowing focus on Shepards companions for such (possible if think outside the box and could work well and they did say to expect surprise with DLC for the title). But also the perfect way to leave the franchise and series open to new people, new beginnings and new stories within the same universe.

I thought it was good, I liked it a lot.

Your point doesn't make sense. The crew is STUCK on that planet. The mass relays have been destroyed which means, most likely, no ship is going to find and save them. Space travel between star systems is impossible because traveling conventionally would take years and the crew would die out along the way. With this ending, there is no new adventure. Everyone is stuck where they are because the mass relays are gone. Most of the galaxy is trapped within the Sol system and we wouldn't have enough to rebuild, let alone keep that many people alive. The crew won't have a chance to get home, as seen in the very last part with the old man talking about the Shepard where it's implied that they were stuck there for all of these years.

Therefore, there are no new people, everyone is stuck. There are no new beginnings, everyone is stuck where they were at the end. There are no new stories within the universe because the universe is CUT OFF completely from one another.

[Twisted and Mean]

I'll say the only thing I have to say to the people who "love" and find some profound meaning in the ending.

Riddle me this:

Modifié par Twisted and Mean, 29 mars 2012 - 03:49 .

[Dragoonlordz]

piemanz wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

How many liked and how many hate the ending should be easily shown from the poll. dont you think ?

Not really, because it's obvious that people who dislike the ending have more reason to come to the forum and vote in polls, especially when they're trying to get something from Bioware.

Agreed, and how many did or did not like it is irrelevant to my own personal enjoyment of something regardless.

[Dragoonlordz]

Slidell505 wrote...

Christ on a stick, I am not reading that entire thing.


That wasn't a crucifixion joke.

Your choice, fair enough. Though I question why you replied then if had not read it just to say you have not read it.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 mars 2012 - 04:28 .

[Valo_Soren]

You are not alone, I am also a staunch defender of the endings and am very happy they are not being changed but I also welcome the added clarity and closure Bioware talked about adding.

[Dragoonlordz]

Valo_Soren wrote...

You are not alone, I am also a staunch defender of the endings and am very happy they are not being changed but I also welcome the added clarity and closure Bioware talked about adding.

Agreed, I have nothing against providing people with clarification if that helps them understand all they saw and experienced. I just (and I know it's selfish) do not want them to remove what it is I enjoyed to do it. The problem as mentioned in another thread is any DLC I figure will contain more than just resolution to the ending so it is not just a case of 'do not want so do not download'. I might want the non ending elements without wiping out what I currently enjoyed.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 mars 2012 - 04:34 .

[Dragoonlordz]

panamakira wrote...

I didn't like the ending I got but it's cool to see that other people in BSN enjoy it.

I know the moment you say you like the endings people jump on the chance to tell you how wrong you are. Well that's BS. If you liked the ending good for you!

I just wished I could be part of that group~ :/

Thanks, I hope at some point you will maybe feel the same. Have to wait till April and maybe you will like what they are planning.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Lavits75 wrote...

Your point doesn't make sense. The crew is STUCK on that planet. The mass relays have been destroyed which means, most likely, no ship is going to find and save them. Space travel between star systems is impossible because traveling conventionally would take years and the crew would die out along the way. With this ending, there is no new adventure. Everyone is stuck where they are because the mass relays are gone. Most of the galaxy is trapped within the Sol system and we wouldn't have enough to rebuild, let alone keep that many people alive. The crew won't have a chance to get home, as seen in the very last part with the old man talking about the Shepard where it's implied that they were stuck there for all of these years.

Therefore, there are no new people, everyone is stuck. There are no new beginnings, everyone is stuck where they were at the end. There are no new stories within the universe because the universe is CUT OFF completely from one another.

I answered this very element few pages back. At which time I felt I was adequate enough in my position, you may not agree with my position but it is mine all the same.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 mars 2012 - 04:54 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Twisted and Mean wrote...

I'll say the only thing I have to say to the people who "love" and find some profound meaning in the ending.

Riddle me this:
-snip-

Thanks for the meme, not very clever way to add to a discussion.