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Probably the only one here but... What I liked about the endings.


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#351
Dragoonlordz

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StarcloudSWG wrote...

The endings are still garbage. Everything from the scene with Anderson and Shepard looking out at the final battle on just plain *does not fit* the rest of the game. Resorting to going back to the b-plot resolved on Rannoch as the justification for genocide makes no sense.

It is poor writing, terrible plotting, and just plain does not fit the themes and narrative structure of *the entire rest of the trilogy*.

Yes, it accomplishes all the things mentioned in the original post. That does not make it a good ending.


It does for me.

I do not require others agreement for validation, but felt was worth stating why I liked it. I am not forcing anyone to like it, just mentioning why I did. Am am also eager to see what they do with these additional cutscenes since they said are not removing what is already there, it won't detract from what I enjoyed but merely expand upon it.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 avril 2012 - 02:37 .


#352
Geneaux486

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I thought it was a good ending to, you're not alone OP.

#353
Dragoonlordz

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Geneaux486 wrote...

I thought it was a good ending to, you're not alone OP.


Thanks, appreciated.

I was surprised just how many in this thread also stated they liked it. Initially felt might be the one one who did (hence the title) but as time progressed more and more people feel the same or express as such in this thread.

#354
yukon fire

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I liked Dues Ex as well.

#355
Geneaux486

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Dragoonlordz wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

I thought it was a good ending to, you're not alone OP.


Thanks, appreciated.

I was surprised just how many in this thread also stated they liked it. Initially felt might be the one one who did (hence the title) but as time progressed more and more people feel the same or express as such in this thread.


Yeah, a lot of people who like the ending simply get frustrated with all the hate around here and leave, but the number is higher than most people seem to think.  This is a straight up good thread.

#356
Dragoonlordz

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yukon fire wrote...

I liked Dues Ex as well.


I get the issue some people have with the fact they used same format. But the format is not a bad one per se merely a very often used one. Other than the boss battles in the HR title, I thought it was a great game. In fact good enough to be in my top 3 of 2011 alongside Skyrim and Witcher 2.

#357
MAXinsanity409

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Quit eating those paint chips, bro

#358
sangy

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I apologize, I didn't even read your post. You obviously have a bit to say. I didn't so much like the ending but you're not alone. There are, I'm sure, a good number of people who liked it as is. There's nothing wrong with that.

I don't think they should scrap the endings they have, just add alternatives. Something for everyone to conclude the great trilogy.

#359
QuintSWE

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I liked it to. Sure, it has some issues, like the endings of a a lot of games, tv-series, books etc, but nothing I consider so bad it ruins it.

#360
ForgeDark

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I also liked the ending - I think this may be in part because I didn't have enough EMS for any of my crew to walk out of the Normandy at the end, which meant I wasn't left in a confusing place wondering how they had escaped from Earth.

The only criticism I have is that I would have liked to have seen Garrus/EDI dead before I walked into the Citadel - I know that it is possible for this to happen, but for some reason on my game it didn't even though no one left the Normandy at the end. I think I would have found the whole ending sequence much more poignant if I had known my LI was already dead. Minor gripe though.

The reason I liked it was because I did feel I had a hard choice to make - I wanted to destroy the Reapers, I didn't want to destroy the Geth. I'd rather destroy something than control it (hence why I killed the heretic Geth in ME2).

I also felt choices in the earlier games were reflected in the story telling of ME3 - e.g. I had no way to broker peace between Geth/Quarians because both Tali & Legion were dead. Yes, that didn't affect the 'final' decision, but I felt that a lot of the storylines were being wrapped up - Genophage, Geth etc. and it would have been far too 'neat' for the ending to change on those types of decisions. Those decisions will outlast Shephard and outlast the Reaper war. I think it would have been nice to have a more epilogue nature at the end, similar to DA:O but that doesn't make the ending itself bad.

#361
Dragoonlordz

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eyeofhorus87 wrote...

I also liked the ending - I think this may be in part because I didn't have enough EMS for any of my crew to walk out of the Normandy at the end, which meant I wasn't left in a confusing place wondering how they had escaped from Earth.

The only criticism I have is that I would have liked to have seen Garrus/EDI dead before I walked into the Citadel - I know that it is possible for this to happen, but for some reason on my game it didn't even though no one left the Normandy at the end. I think I would have found the whole ending sequence much more poignant if I had known my LI was already dead. Minor gripe though.

The reason I liked it was because I did feel I had a hard choice to make - I wanted to destroy the Reapers, I didn't want to destroy the Geth. I'd rather destroy something than control it (hence why I killed the heretic Geth in ME2).

I also felt choices in the earlier games were reflected in the story telling of ME3 - e.g. I had no way to broker peace between Geth/Quarians because both Tali & Legion were dead. Yes, that didn't affect the 'final' decision, but I felt that a lot of the storylines were being wrapped up - Genophage, Geth etc. and it would have been far too 'neat' for the ending to change on those types of decisions. Those decisions will outlast Shephard and outlast the Reaper war. I think it would have been nice to have a more epilogue nature at the end, similar to DA:O but that doesn't make the ending itself bad.


With regard to the bolded part, in life they often say that not knowing what happened to your loved ones is the hardest part and finding out gives them closure (same aspect is coming with extended DLC I believe in essence the closure element). So maybe it is more touching or greater emotional response not knowing? Just a point of view.

It is something I noticed in discussion through out this thread that those more okay with the ending came at it with different perceptions and on top of this for myself different expectations. Quite often I have seen them say (of which I agree) that the entire game is the ending, the ending of the trilogy and not just pinning it all on the last ten minutes. The last ten minutes maybe the climax of that ending (which I considered to start moment came back to Earth with the fleet not just last ten minutes) but it is still but a small part to play overall in the grand scheme of ending of a trilogy. The closure of choices made in previous games shown through out the game not reliance on showing you at the end via a cutscene. The ending itself meaning last ten minutes is left open I feel for interpretation and sparked imagination of how things turn out after your actions have taken place. I do not see this as a bad thing while others apparently do.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 avril 2012 - 03:02 .


#362
Murvel88

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DeathScepter wrote...

Well Paragons gotten special treatment.


I know what you mean but I don't agree. The way I see it, paragons have played the good guys for 100+ hours spanning across three games only to find that their hard work came down to mean squat, zero, nuffin'. They still had to commit murder on millions upon millions of people, or do that AND commit genocide on an entire race.

On topic; I envy those of you who liked the ending, because I only felt violated and betrayed:(

#363
Ultra Prism

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I didn't like the endings after finishing ... but giving signficant thought ... I came up with this and which made sense and gave a sense of relief ... yes the story is over ... and galaxy was saved from Reaper Threat .... here is it ...

http://social.biowar.../index/11491510

I just hoped to see what happens to galaxy after the war and wanted to see Hackett giving a victory speech regard Shepard's sacrifice ... but as you said from shepard point of view .. yes then the story has ended.

#364
ForgeDark

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Dragoonlordz wrote...

With regard to the bolded part, in life they often say that not knowing what happened to your loved ones is the hardest part and finding out gives them closure (same aspect is coming with extended DLC I believe in essence the closure element). So maybe it is more touching or greater emotional response not knowing? Just a point of view.

It is something I noticed in discussion through out this thread that those more okay with the ending came at it with different perceptions and on top of this for myself different expectations. Quite often I have seen them say (of which I agree) that the entire game is the ending, the ending of the trilogy and not just pinning it all on the last ten minutes. The last ten minutes maybe the climax of that ending (which I considered to start moment came back to Earth with the fleet not just last ten minutes) but it is still but a small part to play overall in the grand scheme of ending of a trilogy. The closure of choices made in previous games shown through out the game not reliance on showing you at the end via a cutscene. The ending itself meaning last ten minutes is left open I feel for interpretation and sparked imagination of how things turn out after your actions have taken place. I do not see this as a bad thing while others apparently do.


I agree - I would have *preferred* to have known, but the fact that I didn't know wasn't a huge problem - although, I have to say that without knowing other people had crew members walk out of the Normandy, I still wouldn't know they were dead ;) 

Agree, the entire game was the ending, and I loved most of it. And in fact, the fact my Shepard had to sacrifice the Geth AFTER having killed the whole Quarian species to save the Geth - well played Bioware.

#365
ForgeDark

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Murvel88 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Well Paragons gotten special treatment.


I know what you mean but I don't agree. The way I see it, paragons have played the good guys for 100+ hours spanning across three games only to find that their hard work came down to mean squat, zero, nuffin'. They still had to commit murder on millions upon millions of people, or do that AND commit genocide on an entire race.

On topic; I envy those of you who liked the ending, because I only felt violated and betrayed:(


So you would only be satisfied by a 'happy' ending?

#366
Dragoonlordz

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Murvel88 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Well Paragons gotten special treatment.


I know what you mean but I don't agree. The way I see it, paragons have played the good guys for 100+ hours spanning across three games only to find that their hard work came down to mean squat, zero, nuffin'. They still had to commit murder on millions upon millions of people, or do that AND commit genocide on an entire race.

On topic; I envy those of you who liked the ending, because I only felt violated and betrayed:(


The way I see it and always expected it to go down is the principle of war equals loss.

I never believed would be a good ending, I knew would be vast amounts of lives lost and especially members of my crew even myself I expected would have to pay the highest price. I got this in the current endings. In essence the way the game played out, the way the dialogue was worded and expressed it all matched my feelings in RP format to my Shepard. He was tired of fighting wars and tired of losing people he just wanted it to end and this was his last stand.

He never expected to come back and never expected for his friends to all escape unharmed or many of them even alive. This goes back to the whole expectations issue. No amount of being the good guy would ever change this fact of life that not everything would work out the way you hoped or liked just because you was a nice guy. Especially in this universe and this situation he found himself in, the most effective way to win was always going to be a mix of moral good and bad choices. If anything I expected to lose more people, more friends and more loss than got.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 avril 2012 - 03:23 .


#367
Shawn Pickett

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I think the endings are utter garbage, they ignore quite a lot about what has been established about the ME universe before this, as well as the character. It also breaks a lot of conventions about writing by introducing new plot elements and a character in the last 10 minutes. That being said, I'm glad to see people posting in support of the ending, as it gives us a reasonable opposing viewpoint without resorting to name calling. It also gives everybody a handle on the like vs dislike ratio.

#368
GLR-0053

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I just realized the main character was Joker all along it makes perfect sense and none you could refute it. :P

Plus I'm glad that the Normandy and squad ditched Shepturd, boy who the hell needs him/her around anyway. XD

#369
GerojSvK

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One question: How much were you paid for this wall of text?

IF it is really your opinion (doubtful) then yeah, no problem.

#370
Dragoonlordz

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GerojSvK wrote...

One question: How much were you paid for this wall of text?

IF it is really your opinion (doubtful) then yeah, no problem.


Grow up. Everything I said is my opinion. Implying that I am paid by them to say why I like what you do not is ignorant.

I liked it, I explained why. If want a more negative approach to what Bioware have created that I did not like then read the second link in my signature. Just because I like somethings does not mean I like everything they do. The fact you resorted to trying to dismiss my enjoyment of what you did not by way of such childish tactic of "must be a shill" just damages perception of yourself. Personally I would love to be paid by them (more money for me is always nice on top of my actual real life job in another industry), I post both positive and negative feedback all the time just because this time is positive does not mean I have not done or used negative in past.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 avril 2012 - 03:54 .


#371
ForgeDark

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Shawn Pickett wrote...

I think the endings are utter garbage, they ignore quite a lot about what has been established about the ME universe before this, as well as the character. It also breaks a lot of conventions about writing by introducing new plot elements and a character in the last 10 minutes. That being said, I'm glad to see people posting in support of the ending, as it gives us a reasonable opposing viewpoint without resorting to name calling. It also gives everybody a handle on the like vs dislike ratio.


I disagree, if anything the new plot element (the Crucible/Catalyst) was introduced right at the start of ME3. I was more annoyed about that than the space boy. The random new plot element happened at the start of the game on Mars - I thought it was a bit of a plot hole, but enjoyed the rest of the game nonetheless. It certainly wasn't the last 10 minutes of the game that is the problem if you take issue with introducing new plot elements.

#372
Darkzabre

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This is my second post on the forums, the first being to give input to a research paper on this whole fiasco. That alone should give you an indication that I find this thread interesting; I also find you to be a decent person and I am glad that you enjoy the ending.

I have taken the time to understand both sides and actually appreciate what they were trying to do with the ending. In fact, I saw the destruction of the relays as necessary as part of the destruction of the cycle and did like that, even in the end, the species of the galaxy were in something so far over their head that their best efforts were only secondary to a greater war that had occured over generation. The crucible, while somewhat of a "reaper off button" was at least a good way of showing how each species had contributed over the cycles to solve the problem. Nice.

I think the ending was executed poorly because they did not follow some simple rules of writing.
1) Do not introduce new characters or themes at the end. It breaks immersion, not because they do not have a purpose but because they do not follow the flow of what has come before. As you may have guessed, I am referring to the catalyst. Reading up on both sides, I have determined that it was a mistake to introduce him both in that form (the child rustled many jimmies with the overdrawn attempt to manipulate emotion) and at that time. To be used, he needed to be introduced beforehand. The added kicker that he bottlenecked the choices, which I even see as somewhat necessary given the implications for thousands of endings and the desire to set up future stories, was also unforseen. To be effective, it needed to be implicated earlier in the story to a higher degree. We had been conventionally defeating reapers, albeit at great cost, up until this point and that is naturally what will be expected. Finally, the reapers were always the major theme. To change it to synthetics vs. organics (which was at best a secondary theme) was a neat idea. Made things bigger than the war at hand...potentially to make it even more significant and impactful. But to do so without much indication and with 14 lines of dialogue is poor execution and leaves things feeling flat. Good endings can be predicted, not because they are cliche, but because they are already written into the rest of the text.

2) If a character acts against their usual motivations, you must explain the reason. Two people who get looked at here. Shepard and his blind acceptance of the catalyst logic and Joker retreating the battle. Both probably had a good reason, reasons that can be inferred if you think about it. That is certainly not the point. The point is that character reversals break immersion if not explained. That is simply conditioned in us from all the literature that we have read beforehand. It needs to be accounted for, and they have admitted so for the Extended Cut.

3) Closure is required not for everything, but for things that characters have become invested in (to a reasonable degree). The player became incredibly invested in the fleet that they were building, it needs closure. The player became incredibly invested in the Krogans, that required (full) closure. The player became invested in the LI, that requires closure. The player became invested in space-batman, that requires full closure. People became invested in the squadmates from ME2 and ME3, they all need closure. While a wall of epilogue text would not satisfy many, the Dragon Age epilogue was classy and is a great template for what kinds of things need closure vs. what does not. People will assume the worst about what is not explained. That need not be mocked, for most that is simply their nature. It does need to be accounted for.

4) What else did the ending do right?
Anderson's speech. The pained journey of Shepard during his (arguably last) adventure on behalf of humanity. The conversations with the squadmates before the final push.

5) What did it do wrong, flat out?
Rushed, very. War Assets were ambiguous (yes, they could represent the building of the crucible but that is not reasonable to expect an normal person to notice on first playthrough), they needed to be shown...again, the ones people were invested in. Do what you promise. I'm not going nuts on the writers. In fact, if they hadn't made promises then this most of this will be moot. Things like saying "the Rachni Queen will play a huge role in the final battle" does leave you in a jam if she does not show up. Did she need to? Not fundamentally. But if you promise she will, now there is an issue that will upset people.

6) Did I like it?
I guess I don't know. The literary issue are fairly large and I cannot get drawn into the ending like I can with others. I do appreciate the things it is trying to do. I guess I will have to wait to the Extended Cut. Glad you liked it as is.

Cheers

#373
ForgeDark

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Darkzabre wrote...

I think the ending was executed poorly because they did not follow some simple rules of writing.
1) Do not introduce new characters or themes at the end. It breaks immersion, not because they do not have a purpose but because they do not follow the flow of what has come before. As you may have guessed, I am referring to the catalyst. Reading up on both sides, I have determined that it was a mistake to introduce him both in that form (the child rustled many jimmies with the overdrawn attempt to manipulate emotion) and at that time. To be used, he needed to be introduced beforehand. The added kicker that he bottlenecked the choices, which I even see as somewhat necessary given the implications for thousands of endings and the desire to set up future stories, was also unforseen. To be effective, it needed to be implicated earlier in the story to a higher degree. We had been conventionally defeating reapers, albeit at great cost, up until this point and that is naturally what will be expected. Finally, the reapers were always the major theme. To change it to synthetics vs. organics (which was at best a secondary theme) was a neat idea. Made things bigger than the war at hand...potentially to make it even more significant and impactful. But to do so without much indication and with 14 lines of dialogue is poor execution and leaves things feeling flat. Good endings can be predicted, not because they are cliche, but because they are already written into the rest of the text.

I think if anything, the worst part was the introducing of the Crucible at the start of the game. That was the random plot element. I really can't understand why people think the issue is the space boy. I liked the ending, given that the ending HAD to be about the Crucible, but I much would have preferred a game without it. The idea that the Protheans managed to build the Crucible even though the Reapers attacked through the Citadel is the ludicrious thing to me. To me, the ending was good DESPITE the problem of the plot ;) Synthetics vs Organics was a theme through out the whole game - even in ME1, when you first see the Geth worshipping the Reapers I got the impression that this wasn't as simple as it seemed. I loved that the ending meant I had to make a massively difficult decision regarding the fate of synthetics - and thematically it was just really rehash of the heretic geth problem - to save them, do you control them?

2) If a character acts against their usual motivations, you must explain the reason. Two people who get looked at here. Shepard and his blind acceptance of the catalyst logic and Joker retreating the battle. Both probably had a good reason, reasons that can be inferred if you think about it. That is certainly not the point. The point is that character reversals break immersion if not explained. That is simply conditioned in us from all the literature that we have read beforehand. It needs to be accounted for, and they have admitted so for the Extended Cut.


I didn't have so much of an issue with Joker retreating, mainly because none of my characters survived so to me it didn't feel like Joker was abandoning the fight with the crew - rather that he was trying to escape the blast. I probably would have this issue if my ending had turned out differently (so I guess I was rewarded for not doing the random planet scanning quests ;) ) I also don't see how Shepard could do anything BUT blind acceptance of the logic at that point (plus, if you don't accept the logic, the only thing to do at that point is destroy the reapers and you are given that option)

3) Closure is required not for everything, but for things that characters have become invested in (to a reasonable degree). The player became incredibly invested in the fleet that they were building, it needs closure. The player became incredibly invested in the Krogans, that required (full) closure. The player became invested in the LI, that requires closure. The player became invested in space-batman, that requires full closure. People became invested in the squadmates from ME2 and ME3, they all need closure. While a wall of epilogue text would not satisfy many, the Dragon Age epilogue was classy and is a great template for what kinds of things need closure vs. what does not. People will assume the worst about what is not explained. That need not be mocked, for most that is simply their nature. It does need to be accounted for.


Krogan closure: Genophage cure release or not. Not sure how Bioware could have done anything more with this? LI: well, both me and my LI died - that's definitely closure... However, a DAO epilogue text would be welcome, which is what I hope Bioware's extended cut ending is going to be like, rather than a fundamental change in the ending (because honestly, the only way the ending could be better for me is if the whole game is rewritten without the Crucible in it. That isn't going to happen, and I enjoyed the game despite my issues with the concept itself)

#374
SirBob1613

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The game went like this. HEY look your choices matter. The end didnt matter off are choices we got 3 different colors.
There are 16 different ending all very different. What we got was 3 different colors.
Sprinkle a plot hole there a little big there alot in thes corner and some on the side and You get a bad ending

#375
SirBob1613

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Nelatherion wrote...

The ending felt out of place, it wasn't horrible, nor was it fantastic.

I guess most people assumed the endings would be somewhat like Mass Effect 1/2. Your War Assets/Readyness would determine what and who survived and what state they were in at the end. When all we got was an ending that felt like it belonged in the Matrix.

Twas a good twist, the whole "the best two options are subtly just Shepared being indoctrinated" (if you interpret it that way, which I have.) it does lend a bit more sense to the ending, and makes it fit in better. But the fact it is so out there (surpassing the average person's suspension of disbelief) really freaked people out.

Hell it freaked me out, still does. But in my case it is because I realize I have come to the end of something that took up 5 years of my life. The characters, the people and the places. I will sorely miss my Shep as well as the characters. I know for a fact I will miss the living daylights out of Ash, Garrus and Tali. Maybe thats what is making people freak out.


I bet if we got the whole "You destroyed the Repears! Congrats! Here is a cutscene of you snogging Liara on a beach" half the people who hate this one would say it sucked and was "poorly written".

the best two options are subtly shepard being indoctrinated. See more fan speculations