498 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

Darkzabre wrote...

-snipped to make response easier to read-

Quite reasonable and insightful reply. While I may agree with some elements and not others I will give it more time later and try to respond in greater detail if wish. For now dinner is cooking and I have to go do other things but I will come back read it again and respond later in more detail. There are aspects of which I have covered earlier in the thread but I have to say some of what you brought up I agree with. For instance I believe they gave people too much information during development of what they wanted or hoped to do with the product.

I personally prefer the approach DA3 is going through right now and the principle of not telling until have something to show of which backs up what they are telling you. With regard to whether or not the AI or crucible was explained and given more detail prior to the end is a bit to subjective for my liking, in one sense I figured I would be the catalyst, a sacrifice in some form to make the crucible do whatever it was designed to do. While I ended up not being the catalyst, I did end up pretty much in the ball park of what I expected to happen.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 avril 2012 - 04:21 .

[Murvel88]

eyeofhorus87 wrote...

Murvel88 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Well Paragons gotten special treatment.

I know what you mean but I don't agree. The way I see it, paragons have played the good guys for 100+ hours spanning across three games only to find that their hard work came down to mean squat, zero, nuffin'. They still had to commit murder on millions upon millions of people, or do that AND commit genocide on an entire race.

On topic; I envy those of you who liked the ending, because I only felt violated and betrayed:(

So you would only be satisfied by a 'happy' ending?

Yes, I want there to be a "happy" option as well. I played through ME3 fully aware that people would die, it's war. I was aware of the possibility of squaddies dying (I would have been okay with that). I would like an ending were the Citadel is not blown to pieces and where the Relays are not destroyed. Earth is already a smoking pile of rubble, Thessia lies in ruins etc etc. I can't see how that's a "happy" outcome. It's still "bad" but it leaves a feeling of hope. None of the default endings does that. I play games partly because I can't stand the world we already live in. If I want to see death and misery I only need to watch the news on tv.
All I'm saying is that a happy ending doesn't have to be all rainbows and unicorns, it's just that right now all three endings feels equally evil and I find that incredibly insulting. None of our choices up to that point makes any difference. Again, just my opinion.

Modifié par Murvel88, 21 avril 2012 - 04:22 .

[ForgeDark]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


I personally prefer the approach DA3 is going through right now and the principle of not telling until have something to show of which backs up what they are telling you. With regard to whether or not the AI or crucible was explained and given more detail prior to the end is a bit to subjective for my liking, in one sense I figured I would be the catalyst, a sacrifice in some form to make the crucible do whatever it was designed to do. While I ended up not being the cataylst I did end up pretty much in the ball park of what I expected to happen.

Same - and I was so incredibly glad that Shepard wasn't the Catalyst. Sacrifice, but without Shepard being inherently 'special'.

[ForgeDark]

Murvel88 wrote...

Yes, I want there to be a "happy" option as well. I played through ME3 fully aware that people would die, it's war. I aware of the possibility of squaddies dying (I would have been okay with that). I would like an ending were the Citadel is not blown to pieces and where the Relays are not destroyed. Earth is already a smoking pile of rubble, Thessia lies in ruins etc etc. I can't see how that's a "happy" outcome. It's still "bad" but it leaves a feeling of hope. None of the default endings does that. I play games partly because I can't stand the world we already live in. If I want to see death and misery I only need to watch the news on tv.
All I'm saying is that a happy ending doesn't have to be all rainbows and unicorns, it's just that right now all three endings feels equally evil and I find that incredibly insulting. None of our choices up to that point makes any difference. Again, just my opinion.

I can understand, I guess just in my opinion I wouldn't have wanted a happy outcome - it justwouldn't sit right with me, but I like bittersweet endings in general but if I know there is an option for a happy ending the bittersweet one feels like a failure. And my Shepard would have got a bad outcome, simply because although I knew from a bar chart that collecting random space debri would help the war effort - but from a roleplaying point of view I couldn't understand the motivation for my Shepard wasting time on that. Saying that however, the endings did mean wasting time on space debri just meant the crew didn't die which I can see would be annoying if you'd invested time doing it. I think there perhaps should have been more of a reward for getting good EMS, because I don't expect that because I didn't do side quests that nothing bad should happen (which is why in ME2 I wasn't annoyed that Tali & Legion died for me, and why I'm not annoyed my whole crew died in ME3 & only got 2 options and not 3).

[DxWill103]

All that text and still no reason explaining why you enjoyed the plot hole filled catalyst coversation.
My 9 year old cousin could come up with a scene that brings more closure, relevance, and emotional impact to replace the Normandy scene. I can't even grasp the idea of defending it.

Also, I take it OP didn't read any quote or promise about the closure of the trilogy from any ME dev prior to ME3's release? That's the only way I can think of being okay with every dev quote about the ending being false.  Especially if you don't go into the ending expecting the 16 endings you were told. 

Modifié par DxWill103, 21 avril 2012 - 04:39 .

[Dragoonlordz]

I think one of the only elements or aspects relating to the ending where I am not it would seem be in the minority is the aspect of EMS/GAW element. Not in that whether has enough effect but instead I personally would of preferred that GAW had no effect and at same time EMS should of been used alone in SP with no tie in to MP. I like the multiplayer, I find it entertaining and fairly enjoyable way to spend 20 minutes here and there between other games and such. I just would of kept it separate from SP altogether.

One of the things I seen people mention is their dislike of how they feel it is needed to play in order to affect the outcome of the SP regardless of what that outcome is. I could understand how it would be an interesting approach to take having the two elements tied together I just think the MP was good enough (entertaining) on it's own to not require such linkage. I play in RP mode, meaning from the perspective of my character not an all knowing overlord who knows what decisions do what.

From a RP perspective EMS is not known what effect will have in the grand scheme of things relating to outcome of the battle therefore it was never an issue of how much you see because even if you do not see it my character can believe it had an effect. As such the way EMS was handled from overlord perspective may not be good, but as a RP perspective of character it was fine. The only issue was having GAW tied in, I just didn't feel it was needed to promote MP in first place with MP being fun enough as it is.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 avril 2012 - 05:04 .

[Dragoonlordz]

DxWill103 wrote...

All that text and still no reason explaining why you enjoyed the plot hole filled catalyst coversation.
My 9 year old cousin could come up with a scene that brings more closure, relevance, and emotional impact to replace the Normandy scene. I can't even grasp the idea of defending it.

Also, I take it OP didn't read any quote or promise about the closure of the trilogy from any ME dev prior to ME3's release? That's the only way I can think of being okay with every dev quote about the ending being false.  Especially if you don't go into the ending expecting the 16 endings you were told. 

The fact you are asking shows to me you never even bothered reading my thread first post which is what everything in the thread is based on. As such if you cannot be bothered to take the time to read it, you leave me very little if any incentive to debate with you much...

[LucasShark]

If you liked this ending: I have a lovely DVD rewinder you might like.

This ending is broken on so many levels: forgiving lapses of in-universe continuity, the worst writing techniques on earth, and an outright betrayal of the central theme and design choice of the entire series: th ending as it stands doesn't even fulfill it's role as an ending to a narrative story.

[Dragoonlordz]

LucasShark wrote...

If you liked this ending: I have a lovely DVD rewinder you might like.

This ending is broken on so many levels: forgiving lapses of in-universe continuity, the worst writing techniques on earth, and an outright betrayal of the central theme and design choice of the entire series: th ending as it stands doesn't even fulfill it's role as an ending to a narrative story.

I know what it is and what it is not thanks. I devoted myself to 16 pages of discussion on the topic.

My opinion and my stance on my enjoyment remains, but thanks for stopping by.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 avril 2012 - 04:54 .

[Geneaux486]

GerojSvK wrote...

One question: How much were you paid for this wall of text?

IF it is really your opinion (doubtful) then yeah, no problem.

These kinds of posts always fascinate me because they're sort of coping mechanisms when one can't handle the idea that people honestly disagree with their viewpoints.

[Fail_Inc]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

I liked Dues Ex as well.

I get the issue some people have with the fact they used same format. But the format is not a bad one per se merely a very often used one. Other than the boss battles in the HR title, I thought it was a great game. In fact good enough to be in my top 3 of 2011 alongside Skyrim and Witcher 2.

Here is the funny part, when people say Deus Ex they mean the first game where you can Control Illuminati, Destroy ALL technology or Merge with the super computer looks familiar?  

I'm glad you enjoyed the ending OP and I would love the ending if it ended with Anderson & Shep sitting together, watching Earth if Shepard MUST die for Bioware.
But still I believe Bioware should answer to all fans I mean some of us wants blue babies, some of us wants Reapers winning and since this is the LAST Shepard game we should have gotten those options too...

[Sir Fluffykins]

I don't want to disagree with you, I didn't like the endings but I'm glad for those that do. However I'm at a loss to how you felt everything was summed up perfectly when the final seconds bring questions on whether Shepards previous deeds remained intact and weren't undone by the relay explosions and also when there is no epilogue showing you Shepards Legacy (regardless if he died or not). Remeber people have be playing Paragon, Renegade or inbetween for 3 games and their "unique end" is exactly the same as everyone elses?

Hope Extended Ends Epilogue will address this, even if it's text, because then I'll be happy.

If you came in at ME3 I can understand how all the missions seem done and sorted at the conclusion, but if you've played from ME1-3 the endings feels like game went and said, "You've made choices across 3 games and collected all your War assets, for your unique REWARD you get to GUESS WHAT HAPPENED JUST LIKE EVERYONE" credits roll.

Also I don't know why myself, but that part after the credits was supposed to indicate life continued thanks to Shepard, but for some reason I felt insulted by that scene. I felt empty and bewildered and as if someone had punched me in the gut.

Also, no FAIL ENDING, if I screwed up I should have seen Reapers killing everyone.

Modifié par Sir Fluffykins, 21 avril 2012 - 06:10 .

[ForgeDark]

Sir Fluffykins wrote...

I don't want to disagree with you, I didn't like the endings but I'm glad for those that do. However I'm at a loss to how you felt everything was summed up perfectly when the final seconds bring questions on whether Shepards previous deeds remained intact and weren't undone by the relay explosions and also when there is no epilogue showing you Shepards Legacy (regardless if he died or not). Remeber people have be playing Paragon, Renegade or inbetween for 3 games and their "unique end" is exactly the same as everyone elses?

Hope Extended Ends Epilogue will address this, even if it's text, because then I'll be happy.

If you came in at ME3 I can understand how all the missions seem done and sorted at the conclusion, but if you've played from ME1-3 the endings feels like game went and said, "You've made choices across 3 games and collected all your War assets, for your unique REWARD you get to GUESS WHAT HAPPENED JUST LIKE EVERYONE" credits roll.

Also I don't know why myself, but that part after the credits was supposed to indicate life continued thanks to Shepard, but for some reason I felt insulted by that scene. I felt empty and bewildered and as if someone had punched me in the gut.

Also, no FAIL ENDING, if I screwed up I should have seen Reapers killing everyone.

I admit my initial reaction was - 'was that it?' and I didn't like it too much. I do think the extended cut will solve my 'was that it?' problem - I don't want the ending to change, just more than the Normandy opening with no one getting out, and some guy having a conversation with a kid I don't care about. Honestly though, the scene with Anderson at the end was perfect for me - if that had actually been the final scene (you make the choice, then sit down) that I think I would have been a mixture of happy and sad at the ending, rather than 'oh right, that's it?'.

Fail ending would be interesting to me, and I wouldn't mind it - but I'm sure after 25 hrs + of gameplay, some people would b e pretty annoyed you could fail  A lot of people are annoyed enough that Shepard died even without failing

[SylvaeDragon]

@Dragoonlordz :
Though I did not finish reading of your original post (sorry, it was really looots of reading for me (; ) I feel almost exactly the same way as you do about the ending (only my TIM killed himself (; ).

For me ME3 and the whole ME trilogy is a way of entertaining and fun and even though it had a deep emotional impact on me (as I said in one of my posts) it is still that - entertaining.

I was thinking what it would be like if there was a mythago wood right around every corner or psychohistory was a real deal or Rama would appear on the news.. Would it not be exciting? For me - yeah, I think it would.. (I know that all that excitement about the endings is (probably) not about what I am implying here, I am just expressing my thoughts..)

Modifié par SylvaeDragon, 24 avril 2012 - 11:11 .

[Silpheed58]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I actually enjoyed the endings, they were kind of cliché but I still liked it. 

Maybe I'm just weird but the ending was nice (imho) and left universe/franchise extremely open to new stories/titles. With passing of time and evolving technology as a factor, also as fondness of space based titles viewed from the perspective of first steps into the unknown or new beginnings I am partial to both ends of the scale. 

Edit: Reason why I loved it.

I liked it (although the format of final choice has been done many times before and there is always ways to make things better as with pretty much everything in life, room for improvement).

• I loved from Anderson and Shepard sitting together near the end. It was a touching moment.
• The scenery walking down towards your fate as the battle rages outside showing every second walking is taking it's toll on life of others.
• The crew leaving the ship in lush green forest looking up at the sky (especially Ash which was my LI), smiling and looking happy to be alive (I like to think fondly remembering my Shepard and their love for each other). On a land so far away and an adventure about to begin to trying to reach home.
• Seeing Joker and EDI together where they can be together, a bond present since ME2.
• The music and soundtrack to the game even the end music.
• Shepard giving everything he has to save everyone after being hit by the Reaper near the end, the feeling that he gave it his all and saved the ones he loved while bleeding to death and barely hanging on to life and regardless of the outcome.
• The final scene on the planet with nice scenery looking at the moon with grandfather and child talking about what once was and the story inspiring the child to reach for the stars (maybe lead character in ME4) and knowing life goes on plus more including imagining how they (my companions) lived out the remainder of their lives, were they happy or sad, did they remember him decades on and will peace remain all sparks imagination.
• I felt all the choices had an impact in the game during the game, the repercussions occur in time but I am gone and not present so naturally I do not or would not know how things turn out for everyone.
• I liked how TiM reacted and what he says as he looks at the Earth after my actions too when I shot him.
• You were told the game would provide closure to elements brought up in the first two. This was done in the game rather than the ending and I felt they accomlished it very well. You will never get 100% closure on everything because the outcomes are infinite over time. You make choice x save it saves y (closure), he goes on and lives happy life or sad one (closure), he had a child and that child went on and lived his life (closure) again and goes on forever.
• It feels like a title/game that shows more than most others implies the journey matters most rather than the destination and last five or ten minutes of the game and I am happy with that.
• The choices I had hard time choosing which to do and that is good, I RP as my character in those situations and that world. I do not play as a god controlling his every actions and knows every consequence. Played it through his eyes and it was good for that reason and why I had a back and forth between choices/platforms at end as I struggled to pick one.

[/list]
Additional exposition of my stance...

Like I have said in the past I do not treat any game not even ME franchise as a dictionary or thesaurus, a biography or documentary or require everything to be answered. I treat it as a form of entertainment. In that it succedded and hence the enjoyment. I also have stated you will never get 100% closure on everything. How much is enough is subjective. If you require facts to enjoy your games as opposed to emotional response to enjoy a game then so be it but as a form of entertainment it did just fine by me and I have been a long time member of Biowares community and purchaser of their titles like many others.

The choices mattered to me where it counted which was part of the 45 hours I spent playing the game prior to the end, the final choice was mere icing on a cake and not the be all and end all of everything that I did prior. As long as whatever option or choice or lack of gave an emotional conclusion to the end of the trilogy then I was content and happy with that, as said the choices for me were covered in everything leading up to that point the ending required emotional impact. Since what matters to me the choices having an impact in the game prior to reaching the end, my own personal desire was for the end to just cover the emotional element to finish off. It did that for me, I did not feel the need to know everything that happens to everyone after or need every missing link attached. ME3 did an amazing job of clearing up choices from the past two games and even some amazing choices through the rest of ME3. 

The climax for me meaning the ending just needed an emotional farewell send off to my Shepard via the end of a trilogy and it did well in that regard for myself. I have no problems with people who disliked the ending I just wished they showed those who did some respect and acknowledgment instead of snide remarks and retaliation for liking what they did not. I created a thread expressing my love of the ending and a thanks to Bioware for giving me something I greatly enjoyed and I saw but it is a shame I got attacked so often after I created it out of what I assume was fear my love of something others did not would somehow diminish there "everyone" hates it stance. I felt I had to keep stressing the emotional requirement in what stated here because far too often people assume I am wrong for enjoying it when I clearly had different expectations and desires for this part fo the game instead.

The majority of what some of us wished to clear up from the past two titles was done so during the game prior to the ending and we did get to make some major choices and see their immediate impact during the game. Why is it so wrong to desire less a need for yet more clarification right at the end when at the end the most important element is an emotional farewell to the character we loved first and foremost. If we felt such emotion at the end then it fulfilled what we desired and if the game was entertaining it fulfilled it's reason for existing in the first place. 

I have zero issue with DLC (optional) as solution for those who do not like or had not enjoyed it but I ask they show some respect and reason in what they ask for and how they ask for it and do not force patch over what it is I loved since optional method does not ruin something for someone else out of spite when both can gain enjoyment if keep optional. 

I also happen to like DE:HR and is also in my list for best of past year titles. There is nothing wrong with using a DE format ending, the exposition argument is subjective and infinite in how much exposition each person sets as their own personal requirement for enjoyment too. 

None of this changes the fact all games have a framework which allows a story to be told but the story is always theirs (developers) to tell within that framework of choices they allow and some allow for no choices while other offer more (that is a creators prerogative and not something they owe you or me). It also does not change that it is far more healthy to view games as they are meant to be, a form of entertainment not an oxygen supply or requirement for eternal happiness and there will always be elements in almost all games one likes or dislikes. Take it as it is and gain what enjoyment you can but keep it realistic in that no game will fulfill your every desire.

The ending to TW2 was not perfect or amazing to myself either but the choices affecting the impact during the game was, just as is the case for the period during 95% of ME3 was the case. TW2 did also not tie up all loose ends and exposition given was not perfect but overall the game was epic despite this as is (imho) ME3. Skyrim another great game again where the ending tied up almost nothing (referring to the civil war aspect instead of dragons) as the game continues as thought it had no impact but this does not destroy the quality of the game itself overall. I will also state that all games including ME1 and ME2 left elements to the imagination and as a way to tell stories this has always been the case even though it appears some do not acknowledge the fact they had to use their imagination in previous titles because they are controlled by emotions right now, even most of the debating going on here since the dawn of ME has been reliant on imagination of what x, y or z means or could of been.

It didn't go wrong for me, it did what I wanted it to do. Emotional component to finale of the game not spreadsheet of facts and general knowledge about everything or database, wall charts or epilogue cards to sum up what have seen prior. The only things I wanted from this game was choices that showed clear impact during the game (it did this even if you do not like the outcome of some of those choices), provide many dialogue choices through the game (they pulled that off okay with me), good overall story plus combat entertaining (succeeded imho) and make the final farewell to the character in an emotional way for the end (which did). 

A simple difference in expectations and desires for the product even though I have played Bioware's games as long as most people here. 95% of the game I loved and 5% I liked or was okay with. Overall it makes it in the list of top four of games I liked in past year. I did not buy the game because was advertised as closure to everything. I bought a game to continue the story of the previous two I bought (in fact I bought multiple copies of both previous two titles as I do with all Bioware games including DAO and DA2 as well on different formats). I also did not buy it for these so called 16 endings, I bought it knowing would have an ending of which it did just some people do not like that ending. Every Bioware title has required some use of imagination, all titles produced have plot holes, I did not fool myself into thinking this one would be immune to such. 

With regard to the endings impact of each choice, I did not play as an all seeing god like overlord who had all the answers and knew all the outcomes prior to making choices but instead I role played through the eyes of my Shepard, regardless of each outcome they were seen as specific to the end of that characters story. That character did not know what would of happened if picked a or b if he actually picked c. Each to him was individual and the impact unique through his eyes so when I play it, I role play it as in see it through the eyes of my character not an overlord god approach who knows it all. In that sense so knowing everything is not important to my character for example each choice at the end is unique to each Shepard because he does not know the outcome of the other choices as he never picked them himself.

I find those who use the space magic term to attack another's view quite silly.

Stand in front of a cave man with planted C4 a mile away using a detonator to activate it, to the cave man it appears to be magic. The same principle with even the smallest of things such as a lighter starting fires. It is constantly reminding the player through out the game that even though they have the plans they do not know what it does, lack of understanding of something that's more advanced. Every race that found a relay did not understand how they worked to begin with and they were vastly more advanced than the own species technology, same with Prothean beacons jumping a civilizations knowledge in leaps and bounds. The Reapers also more advanced and people do not know everything about how they work down to each and every square centimetre of the ship.

What I mean is just because you do not understand something does not mean it's not possible or that it's actually magic and I personally did not need to know how to take apart and rebuild a relay or the normandy to be satisfied with believing they are possible to exist in that universe. As said I am not interested in the game becoming a documentary encyclopedia or biography even dictionary or thesaurus. Not all technology has to be explained to me to enjoy the game of which stated in first post but people are choosing to ignore that statement in order to further their own agendas.

With regard to plot holes I also addressed this as there are ways to get your head around elements, using imagination and interpretation. It is just the case some people either do not want to think about it and want to see or do it and others who refuse to change from the stance of "if they do not agree with me then they are wrong". That stubborn and arrogant reaction is detrimental to the social element of this site being if you refuse to believe or be open to another's opinion then your just saying the same thing over and over again with an element of "trolololo, I can't hear you. <fingers in ears>" which is not a good thing for discussions or debate about the games most of us love. 

In all previous games people have had to think about and imagine why somethings happen or what something means, each and every ME title had this so I find it surprising how bitter some are over having to continue doing such in this title. Most of the threads created on the site have been theoretic in nature from the offset and has been a bonus to debating and discussion because of that, not an offense to require such in the games. 

I will also point out every single title in ME has also had plot holes, this is not something new yet some people are treating as such. Lastly I will state again if what some people are looking for is an encyclopedia of instead of a video game then that's up to them but for myself I was looking for something both entertaining and that had some emotional impact (ME3 ticked these boxes for me). I spent the same amount of money as most people who dislike it and been a fan of Bioware as long as most people here so implying those who do like the ending are in any way, shape or form less fans compared to themselves they would be gravely mistaken and so much so that they don't realise most of us have spent and invested more time and money into Bioware and their products than some of those making such claims. 

I have to admit now that I find the 'holding the line' movement is redundant because as mentioned elsewhere they have won nothing that they would not of got anyways. They would of got this mentioned additional content regardless just from constructive feedback which Bioware always asks for. The boycotts, the threats, the review bombing, the filing complaints with the FTC, emotional and financial blackmail, the aggression and arrogance of many (not all) was pointless. All feedback is asked for and upon which they would of created DLC to address such things as they always do even when remove all the nonsense people did in this case. It is essentially a gimmick to make them feel better not affect change, change they would of got from feedback alone in first place like all titles Bioware makes do the same. Wait for feedback and apply it to DLC.  

I also should add that I am offended by the actions of many regarding the ending due to there is a hypocritical element to many of the stances in that many of those same people who pushed for changes in this case (ending) which have severe and I do mean severe issues with meta-gaming and there has been truly large disdain when such topics as adding multiplayer to single player RPG's, anime series and influenced figurines or allowing the fans to choose the appearance of FemShep they hissed and they moaned how just because it's popular to other potential customers en masse (more so than current fanbase in number) like such features or did not match their own preferences... The moment it is something they want they praise and use the same thing they hated in order to get what they want. In fact many of them kept saying how during the FemShep aspect that it should be left to Bioware and not the fans and now they changed their tune because their feelings were hurt. Where I am offended in respect of many of their actions and responses and not the mere principle of leaving polite, constructive feedback which would of led to the same additional content without all the disdain, bile and vicious methods some of them used.

Those who dislike the endings who are part of retake have to remember something which is as a group of people they cannot decide a set solution to the problem and it should always remain in the hands of the developer and based on feedback... Because it is a group made up of many people with different goals from some who want a complete rewrite to the endings, some who want some rewriting but not other elements, some who want expansion to what exists already and other who want expansion prior to the end relating to assets, some who want epilogue style content mere exposition on what currently exists, some who want indoctrination and others who do not plus others who want 16 endings or some that want just one additional ending (the happy kind). The only thing keeping the group even together is your dislike of what currently exists and nothing more. You have no unique and specific goal that ties in with what others within the group want. This is why Bioware should not have for example the retake movement decide what to do but instead should do what they want while just listen to various concerns which is something they have always done in the form of feedback.  

They should not make decisions based on majority or consensus, focus groups or polls else there would not have been a ME franchise and they would not be making RPGs'. They would make more money by appealing to a different audience, a larger one. They do these titles because they love these sorts of games not because you demand it. I do realise if they did as many of you are asking then you would not even be here in the first place. You make a poll then use that poll as basis to demand change based on popular opinion. If you wish to go down that route and rely on Bioware making decisions based on popular opinion then they would not be making RPG's right now, they would not have probably made ME franchise and if they did it certainly would not have been an RPG.

Good for you, I stopped reading after the first paragraph though as you proclaim your opinion to be fact in a condescending and arrogant manner.  It could be that I'm misinterrepting what you are saying yes... but it doesn't matter.  What you need you got, I didn't so who are you to tell me how I should feel or what I should want.

For me, the game WAS great, it DID close up the story, until the end when it left everything that happened in those last few moments open and unconcluded.  If you chose control, how do you know the reapers leave organics alone permently?  Synthesis, WTF is that?  You attack space magic but lo there it is.  Destruction is the only end with a result I can live with because you win whether EDI and the Geth are alive or dead.

[Dragoonlordz]

Silpheed58 wrote...

Good for you, I stopped reading after the first paragraph though as you proclaim your opinion to be fact in a condescending and arrogant manner.  It could be that I'm misinterrepting what you are saying yes... but it doesn't matter.  What you need you got, I didn't so who are you to tell me how I should feel or what I should want.

For me, the game WAS great, it DID close up the story, until the end when it left everything that happened in those last few moments open and unconcluded.  If you chose control, how do you know the reapers leave organics alone permently?  Synthesis, WTF is that?  You attack space magic but lo there it is.  Destruction is the only end with a result I can live with because you win whether EDI and the Geth are alive or dead.

It was in fact my opinion on that element of the game about how I feel about it, not telling you what 'you' should feel.

Also I suggest you don't quote my entire initial thread first post content and instead just leave a comment via reply text box instead of the quote function. Save's people having to read what they should of read in first place before even replying. The whole content of my initial post is what the thread is about and if you cannot be bothered to read it all then please don't bother replying in the thread.

The fact you admit never even reading past the first paragraph does not give me any incentive to respond to you seriously outside of this one time response. You are welcome to actually read it all and reply and then I will maybe answer anything you ask but keep in mind just like my initial thread topic and post, any reply is also just my opinion or feeling on a subject. It is factually my opinion, but just my opinion and perspective all the same. If you are not interested in my opinion then I have to question why read or especially posted in the thread when could of quite easily not done so if do not care for my opinion...

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 25 avril 2012 - 12:21 .

[GLR-0053]

Keep Speculating everybody we need this ideas out there...To where?

I don't know...

[Dragoonlordz]

SylvaeDragon wrote...

@Dragoonlordz :
Though I did not finish reading of your original post (sorry, it was really looots of reading for me (; ) I feel almost exactly the same way as you do about the ending (only my TIM killed himself (; ).

For me ME3 and the whole ME trilogy is a way of entertaining and fun and even though it had a deep emotional impact on me (as I said in one of my posts) it is still that - entertaining.

I was thinking what it would be like if there was a mythago wood right around every corner or psychohistory was a real deal or Rama would appear on the news.. Would it not be exciting? For me - yeah, I think it would.. (I know that all that excitement about the endings is (probably) not about what I am implying here, I am just expressing my thoughts..)

I agree, I think I mentioned elsewhere in the thread, maybe even first post that for the price I paid for the product taking into account the 45 hours play time single run through and keeping me entertained for that period it served it's purpose as a form of entertainment aka video game.

I judge each ME title separately, for example I liked ME1 more than ME2, elements and features in ME1 I prefered to ME2 and likewise elements of ME3 are more/less enjoyable than the other two. When ME1 came out I judged it on "was I entertained?" and "did I enjoy that game for the price I paid?" and the answer was yes, same applied for ME2 and the same for ME3. Each time making that same judgement and each time yes being the answer.

As a trilogy it is more than most developers have ever done with regard to branching across three titles with importing story features between them and having any effect. As titles ME1 was great (for various reasons), ME2 was good (varying reasons) and ME3 was great. As a trilogy it was good. Each title was worth the money and each title was enjoyed.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 25 avril 2012 - 12:32 .

[christrek1982]

Kierkegaardianite wrote...

VolusvsReaper wrote...

I didn't mind the ending, I wish it had ended slightly different but I knew it wasn't going to end like Star Wars with people dancing and drinking and Ewoks.

But that's been the MO of the franchise since the beginning.

If you play as a Boy Scout Paragon, caring about everyone's feelings and doing the right (if sometimes naive) thing, you get an ending that reflects that how your heroism brought everyone together and saved the day. If you play as a Machiavellian Renegade, slapping utilitarian sense into everyone you meet, you get an ending that reflects how you were able to make the decisions nobody else was willing to make in order to save the day. That has been the single, uniting factor between all three games: you choose, through your plot decisions and willingness to prepare beforehand, whether you want to celebrate your victory with dancing Ewoks or live with the sacrifices you made because winning was the only thing that mattered.

That's the essence of Mass Effect, and that was what was taken away for whatever reason in the final moments of the game.

I agree the ending singlar is so ditatched from the rest of ME that it is almost like somone spliced a totaly diffrent game in at the last moment. wheres the happy ending? wheres the middle ending? wheres the ending where you get your butt kicked? what was the point of making any good or bad choices collecting war assets or playing any of the side quest if the shepherds and the galaxys fate is always the same? where is the motavasion to try at all?

Modifié par christrek1982, 25 avril 2012 - 02:10 .

[lordofdogtown19]

tl;dr

Hey look dude if you thought the ending made sense, then more power to you. I'm jealous. Seriously

[Mr. Gogeta34]

One thing to praise ME3 about is that it marked the end of the Paragon Favoritism era of the previous 2 games.

Going all Blue does not result in the "best" outcome. Some choices had trade-offs (like the Collector Base.. some scrutiny but a higher EMS if you kept the base). My congratulations to Bioware on that.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 25 avril 2012 - 02:11 .

[Pelle6666]

The fact that you have to write an essay to prove why the ending doesn't suck should be proof enough of the contrary. Of the things you listed I can only agree with three things; The Shepard/Anderson scene is great, the music is fantastic and TIM's final moment is pretty nice too. Sorry but the rest of your list is garbage.

[Dracorequiem]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

One thing to praise ME3 about is that it marked the end of the Paragon Favoritism era of the previous 2 games.

Going all Blue does not result in the "best" outcome. Some choices had trade-offs (like the Collector Base.. some scrutiny but a higher EMS if you kept the base). My congratulations to Bioware on that.

(Fix supposed favoritism by denying anybody a personalized ending) yeah grats on that.

Although seriously I get what you're saying, there were moments I felt like the renegade could build a pretty decent ems because they made tough decisions that could build more war strength at the expense of justice and diplomacy, similar to Fable 3. But then you realize that it doesn't really matter what you did, the outcome is the same for every Shepard.

[nwj94]

Its nice that you enjoyed the ending, I'm not going to try to take that away. Unfortunately most people were not happy for the many reasons we have going around.

I am glad that you enjoyed it, I wish I could do the same.

Modifié par nwj94, 25 avril 2012 - 04:44 .

[Dracorequiem]

To respond to Dragoon, it's probably pretty tough to get attacked by everyone, as you say you have. But you've got to be expecting that if you're defending something that they hate on a very personal level!

To put you in their perspective just a little: let's say you hate trolls with a blind rage. Someone comes along and says that trolls promote intellectual debate and strengthen arguments, and has an essay that explains why.

You read the entire essay and find that you disagree with literally every single point he makes, and he seems a little condescending while making these points, implying/saying anyone that is baited by trolls is gullible and unintelligent.

You HATE trolls! And this guy is implying that you are dumb for hating it! But you are a sensible person. Do you A) respond to him with reasoned arguments
or respond to him with reasoned arguments while ALSO asking him how he could ever think the way he does

The choice seems pretty clear to me, really. (B, just so there's no confusion.) And in that vein, I think that the argument you make against space magic being magic is a good one! Sufficiently advanced aliens would seem like gods, and technology like magic.

But you're missing the point of why they're calling it space magic at all. It's because it breaks the tone of the series. Mass Effect's technology is meticulously detailed in the codex, and everything that seems in any part magical is explained with at least pseudo-science.

The Reapers are advanced in a way that they claim no one can comprehend, but since it is made excruciatingly clear that they are not Gods/ immortal at all by Sovereign's destruction, I would say that Mass Effect dedicated itself to removing all elements of magic from the universe.

And then here comes the Deus Ex Machina in the form of the catalyst and his options. He speaks as if he's omniscient, and has powers that are not AT ALL explained.

The synthesis option in particular is mind-bogglingly fantastical. Synthetics don't have DNA, so how can the building blocks of life incorporate both organic and synthetic? How could something already synthetic become part organic? These are questions that are given no answers, and without any sort of explanation it remains magic!

I think it betrays the spirit of the series to introduce this in the eleventh hour with no detail, and constitutes a poor ending to a series with such a rich back story and analytical detail