498 réponses à ce sujet

[Aurvant]

[WarBeagle01]

Great you enjoyed the ending. I did not. We have opinions. Unfortunately or fortunately, however you look at it, the majority here do not favor the ending.

[ed87]

What on Earth is this OP? You start off trying to tell us why you liked the ending, and you end with trying to lecture everybody with a wall of text.

At least the people who dont like the ending make threads that do no confront people just to oppose them.

You start off by saying that maybe youre weird. I leave this thread knowing my answer to that.

[Orumon]

I didn't like the ending at all, but I do respect that you did.

I just think the reasons you provided here aren't correct, that's all.

[Dimensio]

The synthesis option in particular is mind-bogglingly fantastical. Synthetics don't have DNA, so how can the building blocks of life incorporate both organic and synthetic? How could something already synthetic become part organic? These are questions that are given no answers, and without any sort of explanation it remains magic!

The "Synthesis" ending fails thematically not only because the mechanics of the synthesis are not explained (within a game universe which provides, at least in backstory, some explanation of the mechanics of currently infeasible technology) but also because it is presented without adequate foreshadowing.  Prior to the Catalyst nonsensically claiming synthesis to be the "final evolution of life" (which itself implies that the writer lacks any understanding of biology or of evolution), no meaningful foreshadowing of such a concept was presented.  Prior to the Catalyst's claim, only Saren claimed such synthesis to be an ideal solution, however Saren was indoctrinated and any player could reasonably assume (and correctly so) that his "synthesis" served only to make him more easily controlled by the Reapers.  Other discussions of merging organic and synthetic elements were aside conversations and never implied a universal synthesis to be a solution to any hypothetical problem.  The presentation of synthesis as a viable solution is thus a non-sequitur in the context of the game narrative.  As a means of resolving the central conflict of the series, it is without established basis.

I have identified certain story elements -- the Overlord mission in Mass Effect 2, the Geth Consciousness mission of Mass Effect 3 (I am assuming that Shepard was able to enter the Geth consciousness through interfacing with his or her cybernetic implants; ideally, such an element should be stated in-game rather than left to player assumption as I acknowledge that I may be in error and, if I am, no logical explanation exists for that mechanic at all) and learning that Geth programs are assisting, through symbiotic interfacing, the Quarians in re-acclimating to life outside of environment suits -- that could, with further development, have been used to actually foreshadow the concept of synthesis as a meaningful ultimate solution.  Unfortunately, these elements were never explored to the extent that they could constitute meaningful foreshadowing.

This failure of adequate setup, combined with a lack of any meaningful explanation of the mechanism by which synthesis is accomplished -- adding Shepard's "energy" to that of the Crucible and sending the merged "energy" (which, as any physics student is aware, is merely the potential for matter to do work) does not constitute a meaningful mechanism when compared to "apply an electric current to element zero to create a pocket of reduced or increased mass within" as an explanation for faster-than-light travel -- results in "Synthesis" being an incoherent and poorly justified concept within the game ending.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

You aren't alone OP. I am ok with the Ending I have (Destroy, with ALL Organic Life Spared, including My Own Life), and I cannot wait for the Extended Cut.

[OMEGAlomaniac]

Great for you Unfortunantly most people, including myself, do not agree. But I'm not going to straight up say someone is wrong for liking it, just show them why I don't.

[Spectre Impersonator]

Aurvant wrote...

QFT

[Ezekiel_Frost]

"As Mass Effect 3 is the end of a planned trilogy, the developers are not constrained by the necessity of allowing the story to diverge, yet also continue the story into the next chapter. This will result in a story that diverges into wildy different conclusions based on the player's actions in the first two chapters." - Casey Hudson



'nuff said

Modifié par Ezekiel_Frost, 25 avril 2012 - 05:48 .

[Dimensio]

Ezekiel_Frost wrote...

"As Mass Effect 3 is the end of a planned trilogy, the developers are not constrained by the necessity of allowing the story to diverge, yet also continue the story into the next chapter. This will result in a story that diverges into wildy different conclusions based on the player's actions in the first two chapters." - Casey Hudson



'nuff said

Mr. Hudson did promise that players would not be presented with options "A", "B", and "C".  As your link demonstrates, players are also offered options "D", "E" and "F".

[edisnooM]

Glad you enjoyed it OP, I have no problem with people enjoying the ending, so long as they don't mind me not enjoying it.

One thing I have been thinking about synthesis is that as far as we are told and shown it seems to work simply at a physical level. I wonder what this means for Geth programs that were not currently in platforms.

Are they affected at all? Are the Geth hubs synthesized as well? 

And I'm not sure how it guarentees peace, as the only way to do that would be to alter peoples minds or ways of thinking. If that is the case the implications of brainwashing or indoctrinating the entire galaxy are quite horryifing.

And if mental faculties are not affected than nothing really changes, people are still the same and will still think the same. The Geth will have to create new platforms in order to reproduce (unless they were given reproductive capability which is weird to think about) or face extinction.

And even if they used some sort of cloning to create new platforms how does synthesis guarentee that no one will ever again create a synthetic AI.

[Drogonion]

LOL. I honestly have nothing but disdain for anyone who can rationalize those endings away. Granted there are a small class of folks who would never be able to identify a broken narrative ending, or for that matter, a perfect one. And maybe the OP falls into this category.

But LOL, those endings were objectively broken and repulsive, narratively and thematically. Yet there will always be some who can get themselves to believe the crazy and preposterous, usually to help them deal with their anger, pain and frustration. So human, all too human.

[Spectre Impersonator]

Ezekiel_Frost wrote...

"As Mass Effect 3 is the end of a planned trilogy, the developers are not constrained by the necessity of allowing the story to diverge, yet also continue the story into the next chapter. This will result in a story that diverges into wildy different conclusions based on the player's actions in the first two chapters." - Casey Hudson



'nuff said

Where did we go so wrong, Casey?  Since this has always been a story about characters, "wildly different" could have just had to do with Shepard and his pals and not sabotaged the entire ME universe. 

[Dragoonlordz]

ed87 wrote...

What on Earth is this OP? You start off trying to tell us why you liked the ending, and you end with trying to lecture everybody with a wall of text.

At least the people who dont like the ending make threads that do no confront people just to oppose them.

You start off by saying that maybe youre weird. I leave this thread knowing my answer to that.

With regard to this element, the exposition and elucidation after the bullet points relates to things others have constantly thrown at me or asked so I figured I would answer them in the start post by adding an explanation to things people keep asking or pushing my way. In theory I thought it would stop them asking the same questions that have already answered (or at least that was the idea behind it). Hence why the post itself has been modified a lot, to cover all these additional aspects that people keep bringing up and asking me about. So I just put the answers in the first post.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 25 avril 2012 - 11:03 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Drogonion wrote...

LOL. I honestly have nothing but disdain for anyone who can rationalize those endings away. Granted there are a small class of folks who would never be able to identify a broken narrative ending, or for that matter, a perfect one. And maybe the OP falls into this category.

But LOL, those endings were objectively broken and repulsive, narratively and thematically. Yet there will always be some who can get themselves to believe the crazy and preposterous, usually to help them deal with their anger, pain and frustration. So human, all too human.

I never had any anger, pain, frustration or disappointment thanks. I never had to convince myself of anything. My opinion of which stated in the first post is how I felt then and feel now, I was fine with it then and I am fine with it now. So you are mistaken. I also posted a response that answers your very aggressive first paragraph a few pages back and also first post I believe answered there too. Your welcome to go read it, but as you have nothing but disdain for me for liking what you do not I have no intention of putting in extra effort and my time going and finding the post or paragraph which relates to it a while back here for you.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 25 avril 2012 - 11:06 .

[Dragoonlordz]

OMEGAlomaniac wrote...

Great for you Unfortunantly most people, including myself, do not agree. But I'm not going to straight up say someone is wrong for liking it, just show them why I don't.

Reasonable and fair comment to make. However just like no one will be able to convince me to hate it and I am sure I cannot convince anyone to like it; others simply cannot stop themselves trying to do so. I believe more people dislike it than liked it, but the fact I like it will not change. As I have said before it does not matter to me if a million people or more hate something, my enjoyment of this aspect in the game is not dependent on others agreeing with me or arguing with me. In the end this thread is an expression of my opinion on why I liked it.

[Drogonion]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Drogonion wrote...

LOL. I honestly have nothing but disdain for anyone who can rationalize those endings away. Granted there are a small class of folks who would never be able to identify a broken narrative ending, or for that matter, a perfect one. And maybe the OP falls into this category.

But LOL, those endings were objectively broken and repulsive, narratively and thematically. Yet there will always be some who can get themselves to believe the crazy and preposterous, usually to help them deal with their anger, pain and frustration. So human, all too human.

I never had any anger, pain, frustration or disappointment thanks. I never had to convince myself of anything. My opinion of which stated in the first post is how I felt then and feel now, I was fine with it then and I am fine with it now. So you are mistaken. I also posted a response that answers your very aggressive first paragraph a few pages back and also first post I believe answered there too. Your welcome to go read it, but as you have nothing but disdain for me for liking what you do not I have no intention of putting in extra effort and my time going and finding the post or paragraph which relates to it a while back here for you.

I apologize: "disdain" was too harsh and melodramatic.  You seem to fall into the category that are unable to "get it" and therefore can genuinely find the endings satisfying.  This is not an insult.  Some of the very best people simply cannot dance.  

[Sir Hecubus]

Swords and Lasers wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

Swords and Lasers wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

I like science fiction because it's fiction based around scientific speculation. What the writers did was the equivalent of having wizards show up at the end of an otherwise semi realistic western series, or a demon invasion at the end of Gladiator.

I would like people who loved the ending to explain the space magic please...

I would like people who hated the ending to quit being ***holes to those who do.

How am I being an ***hole? Do you have something to add besides an ad hominem attack? If my analogy is a false one, then can you please explain why it is? 

"Cowboys and Aliens?" 

Yeah, wasn't a big fan of that movie... 

"Obviously it's set in the future so you have to make some leaps of faith but we didn't want it to be just magic in space.” —. Mac Walters, lead writer of Mass Effect

 
It's your attitude that makes you an ***hole. You're aggresive stance of people's OPINIONS of a video game. You attack them, demanding explanations to things you don't understand. They don't owe you jack****. They had fun and who are you to tell them otherwise, wanting scientific explanations of a VIDEO GAME. It's just a VIDEO GAME. Move on with your life.
... Peace out.

So when someone doesn't understand something and would like an explanation, and you refuse to help them out, who is being the ass hole?

I hated the ending but why can't anyone actually explain why it makes sense and is good?  Feeling good about an ending doesn't explain why it makes sense?  This deus ex crap comes out of nowhere so yes with all the plot holes people are going to question it.

but maybe us "haters' are just too stupid to understand the epicness of this ending.  And require some forsight and explanation as to why it makes sense, and is considered good by others.  Because for the life of me, i just don't get it.

[Cobretti ftw]

[Clumsy Astronaut]

Maybe if we got anything more than what amounts to a pick-your-favorite-color ending and a default Liara flashback if I romanced anyone in Mass Effect 2. I could have taken a weird motivation for the reapers, and a pretty lackluster end mission compared to Mass Effect 2, but the lack of variety was unexcusible.

[Evil Minion]

Drogonion wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Drogonion wrote...

LOL. I honestly have nothing but disdain for anyone who can rationalize those endings away. Granted there are a small class of folks who would never be able to identify a broken narrative ending, or for that matter, a perfect one. And maybe the OP falls into this category.

But LOL, those endings were objectively broken and repulsive, narratively and thematically. Yet there will always be some who can get themselves to believe the crazy and preposterous, usually to help them deal with their anger, pain and frustration. So human, all too human.

I never had any anger, pain, frustration or disappointment thanks. I never had to convince myself of anything. My opinion of which stated in the first post is how I felt then and feel now, I was fine with it then and I am fine with it now. So you are mistaken. I also posted a response that answers your very aggressive first paragraph a few pages back and also first post I believe answered there too. Your welcome to go read it, but as you have nothing but disdain for me for liking what you do not I have no intention of putting in extra effort and my time going and finding the post or paragraph which relates to it a while back here for you.

I apologize: "disdain" was too harsh and melodramatic.  You seem to fall into the category that are unable to "get it" and therefore can genuinely find the endings satisfying.  This is not an insult.  Some of the very best people simply cannot dance.  

Sure, kid.

Whatever you say.

[Drogonion]

Modifié par Drogonion, 26 avril 2012 - 01:42 .

[Drogonion]

[/quote]

Sure, kid.

Whatever you say.



[/quote]

I see.  In your universe everyone can dance and hear rhythm and never gets sick and never experiences need and such.  In my universe talents are not so evenly spread, so differing opinions are not surprising. But I guess in your universe I'm not allowed to think this, much less say it out loud.  So I guess I feel the same:

Sure, kid.

Whatever you say.

Modifié par Drogonion, 26 avril 2012 - 01:54 .

[lx_theo]

Drogonion wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Drogonion wrote...

LOL. I honestly have nothing but disdain for anyone who can rationalize those endings away. Granted there are a small class of folks who would never be able to identify a broken narrative ending, or for that matter, a perfect one. And maybe the OP falls into this category.

But LOL, those endings were objectively broken and repulsive, narratively and thematically. Yet there will always be some who can get themselves to believe the crazy and preposterous, usually to help them deal with their anger, pain and frustration. So human, all too human.

I never had any anger, pain, frustration or disappointment thanks. I never had to convince myself of anything. My opinion of which stated in the first post is how I felt then and feel now, I was fine with it then and I am fine with it now. So you are mistaken. I also posted a response that answers your very aggressive first paragraph a few pages back and also first post I believe answered there too. Your welcome to go read it, but as you have nothing but disdain for me for liking what you do not I have no intention of putting in extra effort and my time going and finding the post or paragraph which relates to it a while back here for you.

I apologize: "disdain" was too harsh and melodramatic.  You seem to fall into the category that are unable to "get it" and therefore can genuinely find the endings satisfying.  This is not an insult.  Some of the very best people simply cannot dance.  

Being unable to "get it" = Liking it.? ... Wouldn't it logically be the other way around? There was an intention with the ending, and if you don't get it, you won't like it. If you get it, you'll be much more inclined to like it adn not experience the melodrama you seem to covet.

[Drogonion]

lx_theo wrote...

Drogonion wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Drogonion wrote...

LOL. I honestly have nothing but disdain for anyone who can rationalize those endings away. Granted there are a small class of folks who would never be able to identify a broken narrative ending, or for that matter, a perfect one. And maybe the OP falls into this category.

But LOL, those endings were objectively broken and repulsive, narratively and thematically. Yet there will always be some who can get themselves to believe the crazy and preposterous, usually to help them deal with their anger, pain and frustration. So human, all too human.

I never had any anger, pain, frustration or disappointment thanks. I never had to convince myself of anything. My opinion of which stated in the first post is how I felt then and feel now, I was fine with it then and I am fine with it now. So you are mistaken. I also posted a response that answers your very aggressive first paragraph a few pages back and also first post I believe answered there too. Your welcome to go read it, but as you have nothing but disdain for me for liking what you do not I have no intention of putting in extra effort and my time going and finding the post or paragraph which relates to it a while back here for you.

I apologize: "disdain" was too harsh and melodramatic.  You seem to fall into the category that are unable to "get it" and therefore can genuinely find the endings satisfying.  This is not an insult.  Some of the very best people simply cannot dance.  

Being unable to "get it" = Liking it.? ... Wouldn't it logically be the other way around? There was an intention with the ending, and if you don't get it, you won't like it. If you get it, you'll be much more inclined to like it adn not experience the melodrama you seem to covet.

There was definitely an intention for the endings: Bioware's artistic vision of tremendous cost to defeat the reapers.  A cost so high that most fans felt despair and hopelessness afterwards.  You can play with the term "getting it," but what I mean by "getting it" is having these nihilistic feelings hit you as the climax to a lengthy narrative defined by the exact opposite: by hope and achieving the impossible.  

Modifié par Drogonion, 26 avril 2012 - 01:56 .