498 réponses à ce sujet

[ghost9191]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

yeah but you chose control right? so your shepard isn't really dead , well is but controls the reapers so i am guessing shep is the new catalyst , so you would know how things turn out. and that is another question that wouldve been nice to have the answer to . is shepard still alive in some form . if he is dead how does he control the reapers, or she

In my mind he only lived long enough to give the instructions to make them retreat and never return (which they may or may not do so but he did what he could). He is not part of the AI in my mind. He is dead hence why I have more closure than some. Death is pretty closing on a persons life story, all that comes after is another story which is part of another persons life.

which i agree with the personal conclusions, but bioware built the game around other characters to, and i wouldve liked a good conclusion to their stories as well.  also how do you know your shep has the ability to have them leave for good, if he doesnt continue to control them what is stopping them from coming back. only way to gurantee they leave forever is to control them forever. these are just questions i have about control. which is why i feel it is safer to destroy. end the threat for good

[Dragoonlordz]

ghost9191 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

yeah but you chose control right? so your shepard isn't really dead , well is but controls the reapers so i am guessing shep is the new catalyst , so you would know how things turn out. and that is another question that wouldve been nice to have the answer to . is shepard still alive in some form . if he is dead how does he control the reapers, or she

In my mind he only lived long enough to give the instructions to make them retreat and never return (which they may or may not do so but he did what he could). He is not part of the AI in my mind. He is dead hence why I have more closure than some. Death is pretty closing on a persons life story, all that comes after is another story which is part of another persons life.

which i agree with the personal conclusions, but bioware built the game around other characters to, and i wouldve liked a good conclusion to their stories as well.  also how do you know your shep has the ability to have them leave for good, if he doesnt continue to control them what is stopping them from coming back. only way to gurantee they leave forever is to control them forever. these are just questions i have about control. which is why i feel it is safer to destroy. end the threat for good

Those other character were my companions but they were not my characters, they had their own lives and they just happened to come with me on the journey. While my Shepard hopes they live and have happy lives and his choices saves them he is not in control of their fate (imho). That is theirs to decide and the only thing he controlled as far as RP goes is himself and his actions. While combat allows control over them he was never them. At the end my character made his choice and what comes after in their lives is their fate to decide based upon their actions as I chose mine. If nothing else he bought them time in making his choice. Not everything in life is under ones control and I viewed the game in same way. He did what he could no more and no less. The rest is upto the others.

Edit: Anyhows it is coming up to 5am so I'm off to hit the sack get some sleep.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 19 juin 2012 - 03:43 .

[D24O]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

There is I feel an element of for me I only required to ability to play through the eyes of my Shepard, his persona I created within the boundries of what is allowed over the trilogy. Role playing not overseer. I did not view the world as a god as I played but merely a person within that world or universe Bioware created. Maybe that is why I do not require as much information or detail as some other who did not like it.

I see what you're saying, but as a player I was expecting a Fallout/Origins style wrap up. While I RP as Shepard, I still view the game as a player. While I understand maybe BW wanted to put us in that roleplaying positoin, I dislike it. Like I said, the uncertanty about the charachters I care about is distressing. 

[ghost9191]

fair enough, but stick by my answer that people liked the ending less due to the lack of details and closure. because when it comes down to it control and destroy don't offer much closure to shepards story either, with him being able to survive in destroy and not know if s/he dies in control or not. so yeah lol i get your argument though but for me i think they could've had more details , which is what the EC will do so whatever lol

[LateNightSalami]

In all reality I do not feel that I can accurately make a choice as there is not nearly enough information given to give the choice any meaning. What are the consequences of these choices? Why are they laid out the way they are? Is there any practical way in which the choices and the subsequent outcomes actually differ from one another? Why are none of the choices that I made in the past coming to fruition in regards to the final conflict and thus the final "choice" in the end? Why are we restricted to these three choices to begin with? Are there no other solutions that shepard could come up with the catalyst? Why is the catalyst the dictator of the choices when it was his first solution that didn't work to begin with? Why would activating the crucible in any way directly result in the death of the activator? Why would the catalyst believe there is a metaphysical tension between synthetics and organics when shepard himself solved such tensions earlier? If the catalyst (who supposedly controlled the reapers) was on the citadel the whole time why would sovereign still need to get to the citadel to open the relay to allow the reapers in? If the catalyst says that the destruction ending will kill all synthetics then strongly implies that you will die also as you are partly synthetic does that mean that he is a liar if you have enough EMS? Why would even having EMS impact the number of choices that you have when confronting the catalyst as EMS has no bearing on the activation of the crucible? Why would EMS affect the different outcomes of activating the crucible in any way?...the list goes on but I think I made my point. It literally took me about 5 min to come up with these questions to the ending "choice". From my perspective there is little participation the player undergoes in making this choice as there is no context accurately allow the player any agency in making the choice.

edit: added thought: And this is all assuming that you are willing to fully engage the final catalyst scene. I belive it to be rather absurd, the catalyst was the citadel and that was all I really needed to know about it. The star child doesn't mean anything to me and thus is an agent in making the ending incoherent.

Modifié par LateNightSalami, 19 juin 2012 - 04:00 .

[Dragoonlordz]

D24O wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

There is I feel an element of for me I only required to ability to play through the eyes of my Shepard, his persona I created within the boundries of what is allowed over the trilogy. Role playing not overseer. I did not view the world as a god as I played but merely a person within that world or universe Bioware created. Maybe that is why I do not require as much information or detail as some other who did not like it.

I see what you're saying, but as a player I was expecting a Fallout/Origins style wrap up. While I RP as Shepard, I still view the game as a player. While I understand maybe BW wanted to put us in that roleplaying positoin, I dislike it. Like I said, the uncertanty about the charachters I care about is distressing. 

Before I hit the sack I will say one thing and that is I enjoyed DA:Origin epilogue information and can gain enjoyement from that form of ending quite easily too. The difference is quite simple in that I prefer neither one over the other as styles or ways to handle the ending. Whether the developer ends a game targeted at a player meaning post death or post game information and cinematics or treats them as a character in the RP sense I am happy with both. In DA:Origins we had Bioware treat the ending out of character and directed at the player and I liked it, in ME3 they ended it more so catered towards a character perspective (imho) of which I can quite happily also enjoy that.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 19 juin 2012 - 03:57 .

[Bill Casey]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

See in my mind my character was not telling TiM it is wrong to control them, he was fighting TiM for two reasons. First TiM kept trying to kill me which hardly a way to make friends with my character and secondly it was not that controlling them is the problem as the issue I had was TiM specifically him with his agenda controlling them I did not want. I did not trust TiM but I did trust myself aka my character.

ALL TIMs: "That's what separates us, Shepard. Where you see a means to destroy, I see a way to control."
___________________________________________________________________

TIM: "You've helped me uncover the key to subjugating the reapers."
All Shepards: "Or destroying them"
TIM: "Dammit, Shepard! Destroying the reapers gains us nothing!"
___________________________________________________________________

Paragon Shepard: "With the crucible, we can end this"
TIM: "It's not that simple"
Paragon Shepard: "It is! It is that simple! We're fighting eachother while the reapers occupy earth! It's time to stop"
TIM: "Your idealism is admirable, Shepard. But in the end our goals are simply too disparate. I believe destroying the reapers would be the worst mistake we could ever make. And nothing you can say will ever convince me otherwise"
Paragon Shepard: "Even with Cerberus in ruins, you still think you can do this your way."

OR

Renegade Shepard: "Together we would already have the Crucible and the Catalyst."
TIM: "You wouldn't listen! You're still not listening!  Destroying the Reapers would be the single biggest mistake of our brief existence. And nothing you can say will ever convince me otherwise."
Renegade Shepard: "I've given you every chance to listen to reason."
______________________________________________________

Renegade Shepard: "With that data, I'll rid the galaxy of those machines once and for all."
______________________________________________________

TIM: "I'm saying they've got it right. Why kill when you can control?"
Paragon Shepard: "You've been spending too much time with the enemy. They're dragging you over to their side--their way of thinking."
TIM: "No, I just... see things differently."

OR

TIM: "I'm saying they've got it right. Why kill when you can control?"
Renegade Shepard: "The Reapers have it right? You're indoctrinated! You're doing just what they want!"
TIM: "I could say the same of you. Wasting time on a war that can't be won."
Renegade Shepard: "At least I'm fighting."
______________________________________________________

Paragon Shepard: With the Prothean data in this beacon, I can end this conflict once and for all. You're either with me or against me. There's nothing gray about that.
______________________________________________________

Renegade Shepard: I'm finishing the Crucible and I'm sending the reapers back to hell.
______________________________________________________

Illusive Man: "It's not that simple."
Renegade Shepard: "Isn't it? You're willing to give up anything for control."

Catalyst: "You will lose everything you have"
______________________________________________________

Illusive Man: "You think power like this comes easy? There are sacrifices."
All Shepards: "You've sacrificed too much"

Catalyst: "You will lose everything you have"
______________________________________________________

Illusive Man: "If we can Control it, why shouldn't it be ours?"
Paragon Shepard: "Because we're not ready."
______________________________________________________

Paragon Shepard: "If we destroy the reapers, this ends today. But if you can't control them."
TIM: "But I can!"
Paragon Shepard: "Are you willing to bet humanity's existence on it?"
































Shepard: So... the Illusive Man was right after all.
________________________________________________

TIM: "I'm saying they've got it right. Why kill when you can control?"
Paragon Shepard: "You've been spending too much time with the enemy. They're dragging you over to their side--their way of thinking."
TIM: "No, I just... see things differently."

OR

TIM: "I'm saying they've got it right. Why kill when you can control?"
Renegade Shepard: "The Reapers have it right? You're indoctrinated! You're doing just what they want!"














TIM: "I could say the same of you."

[G1MEE50K]

While I respect your views, the only reasons I despise the ending are that A) Your choices inevitably have no impact on the games conclusion what so ever, and the developers prior to release made it pretty clear that they would, which is blatant and straight up lying to the community. And How the catalyst itself and the views of galactic peace it expresses aren't just weird, they're contradictory and make absolutely no sense.
(also, can anyone explain how the catalyst is manifested as a human child?)

[Storin]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

The backwards nonsensical reaper motivation, the lack of an investigate option, the pick-your-color-to-choose-your-ending system. No, there was not a single redeemable aspect of the ending after the Anderson conversation. Everything with the Starchild is terribly written trash.

You think so? Good for you. I am actually glad I bought the game and I liked it. Different strokes, different folks. I had the same concerns but the difference is I think they pulled it off with only one exception of being slightly cliché but thats okay.

How thogh? How do you think they pulled it off? The ending is almost objectively poorly written. The reaper motivation makes no sense "We'll stop SYnthetics from whiping you out by whiping you out with synthetics every 50,000 years". Shepard jst accepts everything the Starchild says at face value without even a single doubt. The 'three' endings are all nearly identical. None of your decisions throughout the game affect your ending what so ever.

Tell me a single thing about the ending that was done in a satisfactory manner, please!

I enjoyed all of it (though taking into account the cliché manner of how you make those choices at the end as not perfect). I can't explain all the single elements in non spoiler section. I just thought I would let Bioware know that this title I thought was very good, epic in fact, even the ending I loved. The last title they created I loved as much was Dragon Age: Origins. This title as as great to me as Origins was. I did not really enjoy Mass Effect 2 much but it was okay. Mass Effect 1 I liked a lot but there is an element of due to being the first title which opened up a new series I could enjoy and style of game. Dragon Age 2 I disliked greatly.

Interesting how people react to things differently. I thought ME2 was great and that the ending was nearly perfect. ME3 struck me as rushed and unpolished by comparison. I'm not going to get into the ending, except to say it left me feeling literally sick. Think we agree more or less on DA:O, though. I'd put it in my list of top five favorite games of all time. And I actually ended up liking DA2, despite hating it at first. (It grew on me, while I find ME3 seems worse to me as time goes on.)

[Ithurael]

The Necro Thread Rises!

DESHI DESHI BASARA BASARA!!!

[Grubas]

No more ending talk. How can we talk about the ending when Kobi didnt finish it, yet.

[The_XBL_Nihilus]

Chose control? LoL

Did not read Great Wall of Nonsense.

There are only 2 endings that you can choose in this game that agree with the mass effect story. Destroy or Refusal. Control makes you no better than TIM, and Synthesis is the path that Saren took.

[Liamv2]

The_XBL_Nihilus wrote...

Chose control? LoL

Did not read Great Wall of Nonsense.

There are only 2 endings that you can choose in this game that agree with the mass effect story. Destroy or Refusal. Control makes you no better than TIM, and Synthesis is the path that Saren took.

Lol nope

[Ithurael]

Grubas wrote...

No more ending talk. How can we talk about the ending when Kobi didnt finish it, yet.

^This

[The_XBL_Nihilus]

Liamv2 wrote...

The_XBL_Nihilus wrote...

Chose control? LoL

Did not read Great Wall of Nonsense.

There are only 2 endings that you can choose in this game that agree with the mass effect story. Destroy or Refusal. Control makes you no better than TIM, and Synthesis is the path that Saren took.

Lol nope

Another person who has only ME3 under their name and disputes my argument with no explanation.

[Gtox69]

I like to think of a Shephard-controlled Reaper descending from the skies upon a bunch of Vorcha pirates or Batarian terrorists and blasting the crap out of them with a giant frikken laser.

But seriously, I think that Shepard's prior views and claims about Reaper (or Illusive man) control are irrelevant because at no point has she (or he - I prefer Femshep myself) considered the possibility of controlling the Reapers herself. The fact that she thinks that the existing controller of the Reapers is doing a sh*t job, that the Illusive Man would do a sh*t job and that humans in general would do a sh*t job doesn't mean that she wouldn't fancy the job herself. How many people would be able to turn down the opportunity to have almost god-like power. I know I wouldn't, regardless of what I might think of the abilities of others (or even my own abilities) to handle such power. The desire to use that power to achieve your vision of what is right would be so powerful that it would overwhelm any prejudices that you may have had against controlling the Reapers.
Also, Shephard is a natural leader, and one thing all natural leaders have in common is that they love power. Whether they seek it for their own advantage or seek it in order to help others, they all love it. The idea that a natural leader would turn down the opportunity to control the reapers goes against human nature, and I believe that control is the only option that a real-life Shephard would take. She may have a small moral dilemma when she thinks of her past views and arguments with TiM, but the thought of using the reapers to achieve good, to rebuild what was destroyed, to regain the information about the many cultures and species destroyed by the reapers in past cycles, combined with the sheer overwhelming physical desire created by the prospect of becoming a demi-god, should sort out any ethical problems she has with control.
Also, having achieved peace between the Geth and the Quarians, and by assuming control of the reapers, Shephard ends the cycle of extinction, which was your ultimate goal (something the Destroy ending fails to achieve), the Geth live, EDI lives, and you have Shephard-god controlling the galaxy (and blasting Vorcha pirates), which neatly fits in with the theme of control that has been ever present throughout the trilogy.

[Linkenski]

 I never had a problem with the actual ending cutscenes post-starchild exept for the similarity and color-swap. I also have a couple of things i liked about the endings, that i'd like to share with you guys, so i'll make a list of likes and dislikes.

I liked:- The whole part and the atmosphere when you arrive at the citadel and everything is dark and eerie.
- TIM confrontation was a pleasant surprise in a weird way. I was think both "oh ****!" and "yeah, this is great!" when he walked towards Shepard and Anderson.
- Anderson's death scene was touching and it really moved me.
- The part where Shepard struggles to reach the panel but faints on the lift before he touches the panel.
- The music. All of it from the beginning of The Citadel part to the very end. I especially liked the music that plays during the Catalyst scene. I love the way shepard falls, and then right after Hackett yells out there is a sort of "boom" and it feels like time stops while the music comes in.
- Loved the scenario when you arrive at the underside of the citadel.

I did not like
- That the arguments between TIM and Shepard didn't always fit in right depending on the dialogue choice.
- Paragon/Renegade ending TIM, where you either persuade or intimidate him. It should be too obvious to TIM that Shepard is trying to win him over, but TIM falls for it too quickly.
- The Catalyst's explanation of the Reapers' motive. The rest died for me after that.
- The ending tries to change the meaning of what Mass Effect was about up to this point. I'm reffering to the statement of synthetics always rivaling organics.
- The ending tries to be very artistic, but it doesn't have a deeper meaning to it when you think about it. The Catalyst's appearance is not explained, and it's too vague to interpret for many, and if Shepard sacrifices himself, he sacrifices himself for no reason. The Reapers were wrong all along. They were stupid, and you end up sacrificing yourself because of their stupidity.
- Unmystification of the Reapers. This debacle wouldn't ever have happened if you didn't give us such a shallow explanation of the Reapers.

Modifié par Linkenski, 03 janvier 2013 - 05:15 .

[clarkusdarkus]

10 months in the future from this thread people will still be talking of the ending..... And not in a good way

[Dragoonlordz]

The_XBL_Nihilus wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

The_XBL_Nihilus wrote...

Chose control? LoL

Did not read Great Wall of Nonsense.

There are only 2 endings that you can choose in this game that agree with the mass effect story. Destroy or Refusal. Control makes you no better than TIM, and Synthesis is the path that Saren took.

Lol nope

Another person who has only ME3 under their name and disputes my argument with no explanation.

Do you understand hypocrisy? You made the stupid comment about my thread without even reading my initial post which this thread is about, then you have the nerve to whine that someone did not bother to put in much effort to dispute your position?

[Dragoonlordz]

@ Gto and Link

My desire in both ME2 and ME3 was to not let TiM control the Reapers because to me he was racist or a human supremacist more accurately. My Shepard was more open minded and wanted to protect all races equally, not place humanity above all the others unlike TiM. That was my motivation for not stopping him and was not against the principle of controlling the Reapers myself.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 03 janvier 2013 - 06:22 .

[Chiggy]

Gtox69 wrote...

I like to think of a Shephard-controlled Reaper descending from the skies upon a bunch of Vorcha pirates or Batarian terrorists and blasting the crap out of them with a giant frikken laser.

But seriously, I think that Shepard's prior views and claims about Reaper (or Illusive man) control are irrelevant because at no point has she (or he - I prefer Femshep myself) considered the possibility of controlling the Reapers herself. The fact that she thinks that the existing controller of the Reapers is doing a sh*t job, that the Illusive Man would do a sh*t job and that humans in general would do a sh*t job doesn't mean that she wouldn't fancy the job herself. How many people would be able to turn down the opportunity to have almost god-like power. I know I wouldn't, regardless of what I might think of the abilities of others (or even my own abilities) to handle such power. The desire to use that power to achieve your vision of what is right would be so powerful that it would overwhelm any prejudices that you may have had against controlling the Reapers.
Also, Shephard is a natural leader, and one thing all natural leaders have in common is that they love power. Whether they seek it for their own advantage or seek it in order to help others, they all love it. The idea that a natural leader would turn down the opportunity to control the reapers goes against human nature, and I believe that control is the only option that a real-life Shephard would take. She may have a small moral dilemma when she thinks of her past views and arguments with TiM, but the thought of using the reapers to achieve good, to rebuild what was destroyed, to regain the information about the many cultures and species destroyed by the reapers in past cycles, combined with the sheer overwhelming physical desire created by the prospect of becoming a demi-god, should sort out any ethical problems she has with control.
Also, having achieved peace between the Geth and the Quarians, and by assuming control of the reapers, Shephard ends the cycle of extinction, which was your ultimate goal (something the Destroy ending fails to achieve), the Geth live, EDI lives, and you have Shephard-god controlling the galaxy (and blasting Vorcha pirates), which neatly fits in with the theme of control that has been ever present throughout the trilogy.

I agree with much of what you say, specificaly, the last paragraph.

Aside from fixing the relays, my control Shep would be the hands off non-intefering type.  He/she would only bring out the reapers to whoop **** if there was something that threatened the existence of the universe.

I view Control as a burden, to have so much responsbility, to me Shep picking Control is about sacrifice, to take on the burden and responsbility of the Universe.  Not unlike that idea that if you save a life, you become responsible for it.  My Shep would have doubts as to whether he/she would be able to live up to the responsibility or do all the right things, but given that or the choice of doing nothing, destroying, or directly intefering with how all species develop, he/she would roll the dice and/or have the belief they have of the right stuff within them to be the ultimate caretaker.

[The_XBL_Nihilus]

Sorry Dragoon, but I did explain why your choice was poor, although your opinion is obviously still valid. So despite not reading your wall of text I'm fairly sure I've got a grip on understanding the ME universe through sheer experience.

[Dragoonlordz]

Chiggy wrote...

I view Control as a burden, to have so much responsbility, to me Shep picking Control is about sacrifice, to take on the burden and responsbility of the Universe.  Not unlike that idea that if you save a life, you become responsible for it.  My Shep would have doubts as to whether he/she would be able to live up to the responsibility or do all the right things, but given that or the choice of doing nothing, destroying, or directly intefering with how all species develop, he/she would roll the dice and/or have the belief they have of the right stuff within them to be the ultimate caretaker.

I agree with that.

My Shepard never desired power over the Reapers, never crossed his mind even to control them himself. He just did not want TiM to do so because of TiM's known human supremacy agenda I simply could never allow him to be in such a position (imho).

My Shepard had lost so many friends, seen so much death an destruction, had members of the galaxy relying on him far too often and was tired of fighting everyone else's wars and his life being one long torment dragged from one battle to the next losing people along the way he cared about. One way or another he wanted the war to end, he wanted an end to seeing his friends die all the time and being dragged into other peoples conflicts constantly. He was just tired of it all as it had taken it's toll on him through the years persona wise.

ME3 did an amazing job of conveying that very same sentiment in my playthrough with my Shepard even with the autodialogue which I admit had me worried prior to playing how much would detract from the perspective and persona of my Shepard but in reality it was very well done because matched the persona and feelings of my character through the game. It might not have been in line with everyones Shepards persona's but it matched mine.

The reason he chose to take on that burden of using control is because to him it was the best way to save as many lives as possible (including the Geth which I saved earlier and considered a sentient newly formed race) and make some good come from the Reaper War by making them help rebuild and protect the peace between all races not just humanities interests. In control all the races to me remained as they were prior to the war, they retain their individuality and can continue to develop and evolve on their own which is why I never picked Synthesis instead even though saves a vast amount of lives too.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 janvier 2013 - 07:09 .

[legion999]

What. The. ****.

Is there a necromancer training people around here or something? Jesus.