498 réponses à ce sujet

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

You are the cancer that is killing good entertainment.

 

Very good, now express yourself in a less childish manner. I should point out I have probably been playing games longer than yourself and in general am far more picky towards the amount of games I buy based on which are highly enjoyable these days. I only buy RPG's and have been doing so for over three decades.

Ok how are you not? You accept the endings despite HUGE GAPING PLOT HOLES!!! and huge out of character moments for not just your companions but for Shepard as well. But that's ok because the ending have purty colors..

Listen I don't know you in real life you might be a very smart person but can you understand why saying something like this makes you sound stupid?

Fine you like the ending but this is not the ending that Mass Effect deserves. Mass Effect was supposed to be our Citizen Kane, our Star Wars. It was to show the mainstream that video games can give you not only something that is just as good as what a movie or a book can give it can do it better. But because of the endings That all goes to crap.

[LegendaryBlade]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

You are the cancer that is killing good entertainment.

 

Very good, now express yourself in a less childish manner. I should point out I have probably been playing games longer than yourself and in general am far more picky towards the amount of games I buy based on which are highly enjoyable these days. I only buy RPG's and have been doing so for over three decades.

This post is silly and you should feel silly for posting it. "I've been playing games for SO LONG and i'm SO PICKY that my opinion is more relevant, despite not actually addressing any of the well documented criticisms"

I need that picture that says "If you were born after 1989 you don't know **** about videogames"

EDIT: Thats the SECOND TIME i've double posted. Quote and edit are so close to each other. My bad.

Why would I address your problems with your enjoyment of the game. Seriously learn to know the difference between personal preference and how such impacts another persons enjoyment of a product. Also do not put words in my mouth as you will regret it. Quote me for exactly what I say and don't try to belittle another persons view by changing the words or claiming they mean something they never said.

The funny thing is I don't even think my paraphrase looks anywhere near as bad as a direct quote would of, but the quote was still in the post none the less. Don't get your panties twisted and start throwing out threats.

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Toshir wrote...

There were literally a dozen gaping plot holes left unexplained in these horrendous POS endings. It's disgusting.

It's not even just the plotholes, it's the HORRENDOUS Deus Ex Machina that fits the description of a D.E.M to the letter. Random god character appears and suddenly wraps everything up with no pacing or story direction. And then, of course, the explination he gives makes absolutely no sense and contradicts information from ME1&2.

Whether you think it's badly done or not is fair. Complaining that they use one really isn't. Some of the most famous greek plays used Deus Ex's extensively. The fact is it is a tool that can be used or abused. More often than not it is abused. But a Dues Ex alone does not determine the worth of something.

 

Greek plays is actually where the term comes from, but i've never seen it used as a positive way to describe a story event outside of greek plays. Deus Exs are very much not considered a positive phenomenon anymore than Mary Sues or plotholes themselves. Even if that wasn't the case and such a literary device CAN be used well, it certainly wasn't used well here.

[SgtHydra]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Toshir wrote...

There were literally a dozen gaping plot holes left unexplained in these horrendous POS endings. It's disgusting.

It's not even just the plotholes, it's the HORRENDOUS Deus Ex Machina that fits the description of a D.E.M to the letter. Random god character appears and suddenly wraps everything up with no pacing or story direction. And then, of course, the explination he gives makes absolutely no sense and contradicts information from ME1&2.

Whether you think it's badly done or not is fair. Complaining that they use one really isn't. Some of the most famous greek plays used Deus Ex's extensively. The fact is it is a tool that can be used or abused. More often than not it is abused. But a Dues Ex alone does not determine the worth of something.

Deus Ex Machinas were used in Greek plays because they were considered "cool" at the time.

This giant crane would lift the actor playing a Greek Diety up and drop him down right onto the stage. That's why it's called "a god from the machine," cause cranes were really advanced tech at the time.

It was sort of the 3D of the era.

However, now we only know "Deus Ex Machina" as an ending that comes from nowhere. Which is never good.
But (and I'm saying this as a ME3 ending hater), the ending here was not a deus ex machina. It was set up, from the whole Geth conflict as well as dialogue from the Prothean. The Reapers are crazy machines. The reason doesn't make much sense because it partially isn't supposed to. They're a rabid dog that needs putting down.

The problem for me with the ending is how quickly a story three games in the making ends. Something epic like this deserves a long epilogue, showcasing all of our accomplishments and failures. It makes the player feel like they've done something big and gives them a reason to go back and try for that perfect ending.

[Balek-Vriege]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

It's not about whether the ending is happy or not, we just wanted something that wrapped the series up in a satisfying manner. Something that answered questions, not left bigger plotholes behind. I'd almost be fine with all the endings being near identical if they didn't have such glaring continuity errors.

I would say they're identical almost in the sense of what happens in the remaining seconds and minutes of the ME3.  What aren't going to be identical are their eventual outcomes and impact on galactic society.  We don't need to see it to understand that all three paths diverge greatly from one another by their very natures, as explained ingame.


Also I think, like many have pointed out on this thread and all the others, that satisfaction is dependent on the individual.  Some want everything explained Lord of the Rings movie style with a 40 minute epilogue at the end and/or BGII style epilogues for each character.  Others just wanted something else to happen to certain characters or had problems with the mechanics of the ending.  Another segment didn't like the endings because there was no post gameplay.  While others are actually satisfied and content with the endings as is.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 14 mars 2012 - 05:45 .

[lastpawn]

Here's the thing. We were told there would be 16 wildly different endings, and that the would not leave questions unanswered. So either developers lied, dropped the ball, or something else is up.

Just my thoughts, of course.

Modifié par lastpawn, 14 mars 2012 - 05:45 .

[Kierkegaardianite]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

You know, I didn't mind the Mcguffin Crucible thing. That was fine, and it really sort of fits with the way they wanted to establish that winning through conventional means was impossible. Would of been doubly neat if there was a large war asset that unlocks right after you learn about the crucible for saving the Collector base. "Knowledge of the protheans has made building this structure easier". Would of created a tie in and made the whole base look like foreshadowing.

I didn't mind it either, even though it was extremely silly that it just happened to show up in the first act of the final part of a trilogy. That's just part of the reason why I was shocked at the ending, because if you had taken the Crucible plans in stride, there was no reason to stick a nonsensical Deus Ex (in multiple ways) ending on top of it. You'd already sold your players on cheese and effective melodrama for 2.9 games, so that's clearly what they're buying. Messing with the formula at the 11th hour is either a severe deadline/budget issue or some new writer trying to sell New Coke in order to distance himself from the old Coke guy.

[LegendaryBlade]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

It's not about whether the ending is happy or not, we just wanted something that wrapped the series up in a satisfying manner. Something that answered questions, not left bigger plotholes behind. I'd almost be fine with all the endings being near identical if they didn't have such glaring continuity errors.

I would say they're identical almost in the sense of what happens in the remaining seconds and minutes of the ME3.  What aren't going to be identical are their eventual outcomes and impact on galactic society.  We don't need to see it to understand that all three paths diverge greatly from one another by their very natures, as explained ingame.


Also I think, like many have pointed out on this thread and all the others, that satisfaction is dependent on the individual.  Some want everything explained Lord of the Rings movie style with a 40 minute epilogue at the end and BGII style epilogues for each character.  Others just wanted something else to happen to certain characters or had problems with the mechanics of the ending.  Another segment didn't like the endings because there was no post gameplay.  While others are actually satisfied and content with the endings as is.

Both the Control and Destroy endings result in near identical outcomes, except with Destroy you slaughter all of the Geth, Edi, and any other Synthetic life in the process for no adequetly explained reason (It's already identified that Reapers work on their own unique code, shutting them and only them down from the Crucible should not be difficult).

In all three endings the Mass Relays are destroyed, everybody aboard the Normandy is stranded, and the Reapers are no longer a threat; and then common speculation is that a large portion of the alien population trapped in Sol starve to death. Arguably the one with the biggest difference is Synthesis, since it changes the workings of all life as we know it...and this is only represented by glowy lines on the characters as the exact same ending segment plays out.

But I don't mind the endings being similar, it helps line up for a sequel in the future even. I mind that way it's poorly written and plagued with plotholes.

Modifié par LegendaryBlade, 14 mars 2012 - 05:49 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Anyways I am logging for tonight and heading to bed so if people feel the need to attack and belittle my enjoyment of the game ending, you can without response or rebuttal for time being. Though I would ask you take a look at what your actually doing and how silly it is trying to attack another persons enjoyment of what they paid for when all they did was express thanks for what they enjoyed and say that they enjoyed it including said why I enjoyed it quite clearly. No wonder these forums are so hostile when so many cannot respect another persons preferences or enjoyment. I'm not saying they are wrong to personally dislike it but I expressed the fact I did like it and why.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 mars 2012 - 05:56 .

[Aulis Vaara]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Arguably the one with the biggest difference is Synthesis, since it changes the workings of all life as we know it...and this is only represented by glowy lines on the characters as the exact same ending segment plays out.

But this one doesn't make any sense either. Synthetics and organics would become the same thing, but what about all those Geth on servers and within the Quarians' suits?

Modifié par Aulis Vaara, 14 mars 2012 - 11:44 .

[GnusmasTHX]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

 except with Destroy you slaughter all of the Geth, Edi, and any other Synthetic life in the process for no adequetly explained reason

The reason is beyond obvious.

[Jade Elf]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It surprised me just how much I liked it given so many people were negative and warning from others of it.

Same here.

Anyway, off to continue my second playthrough(out of over a dozen in total).

[Dragoonlordz]

Jade Elf wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It surprised me just how much I liked it given so many people were negative and warning from others of it.

Same here.

Anyway, off to continue my second playthrough(out of over a dozen in total).

Me too, I have plenty of spare time right now work wise waiting on another designer to finish his artwork for a project so I can compile, edit and pre-press for publication. So I have time to enjoy it all over again. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[kbct]

I don't want to spoil anything for you go guys so here is a link to an article that sums up why most of us don't like the ending:

http://www.gamefront...ans-are-right/1

[Dragoonlordz]

kbct wrote...

-snip

Why you do not like it doesn't matter to me, sorry if seems heartless. I explained why I like it and I have seen it already.

Also mods, put this thread in the right section either general (non spoiler) or story (spoiler), multiplayer section is incorrect.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 mars 2012 - 03:42 .

[WizenSlinky0]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Greek plays is actually where the term comes from, but i've never seen it used as a positive way to describe a story event outside of greek plays. Deus Exs are very much not considered a positive phenomenon anymore than Mary Sues or plotholes themselves. Even if that wasn't the case and such a literary device CAN be used well, it certainly wasn't used well here.

I'm aware of where it came from. I just used it as an example rather than give people a history lesson. 

I really don't know why they are so hated, personally. I couldn't care less if a Dues Ex is used so long as the story is strong and the ending is satisfying. They are a tool like everything else. So long as you execute it correctly almost anything can be used in a positive setting.

And I wasn't claiming it was used well here. Just saying a Dues Ex does not by itself make a bad game or ending. It's a weak argument to make.

SgtHydra wrote...

Deus Ex Machinas were used in Greek plays because they were considered "cool" at the time.

This
giant crane would lift the actor playing a Greek Diety up and drop him
down right onto the stage. That's why it's called "a god from the
machine," cause cranes were really advanced tech at the time.

It was sort of the 3D of the era.

However, now we only know "Deus Ex Machina" as an ending that comes from nowhere. Which is never good.
But
(and I'm saying this as a ME3 ending hater), the ending here was not a
deus ex machina. It was set up, from the whole Geth conflict as well as
dialogue from the Prothean. The Reapers are crazy machines. The reason
doesn't make much sense because it partially isn't supposed to. They're a
rabid dog that needs putting down.

The problem for me with the
ending is how quickly a story three games in the making ends. Something
epic like this deserves a long epilogue, showcasing all of our
accomplishments and failures. It makes the player feel like they've done
something big and gives them a reason to go back and try for that
perfect ending.

Meh. Writing style is subjective. There's no one right way to end a story. It's all about whether your readers are satisfied. I disagree with anyone and will continue to disagree with anyone who believes a Dues Ex on its own is inherently bad. Tis all in the execution. It certainly doesn't have the best track record, of course.

Indeed. It does deserve that. I was not satisfied by the endings. I was simply highlighting the fact it wasn't because a Dues Ex was used but because it was badly done in general.

[Bryan Johnson]

Topic was moved from MP

Modifié par Bryan Johnson, 14 mars 2012 - 07:58 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Topic was moved from MP

Many thanks. Not sure why ended up there in first place but thanks for moving to correct section.

[SCass2009]

I've posted this before but I'll say again - Bioware can blame themselves for the reaction to the ends, they hyped it up waaaaaayy too much!

I didn't think the endings were too bad (well, except for the flying away and getting stranded on a planet that resembled the one from Predators lol), just a bit puzzled as to why they didn't have some sort of ending showing what happened to everyone Dragon Age:Origins style ....




On the plus side, at least Sheppard didn't find a dog kennel ontop of the Citadel with a golden Labrador controlling the reapers

[John Never Dies]

Give me the same exact ending. Just fill in the gaps, tell me in general what happens to the choices I made in the game that will not really have a outcome for years(EX: Krogans, I would like to now what happens not imagine the millions of outcomes).

This is a incomplete ending and only raises more questions. Which is exactly opposite of what they said there were going to do.

Hell, I wish they would had said ending DLC was being released before the game came out. I wouldn't have bought it and to see these endings as they are now.

The reasons the endings are bad and the reason no one who is a big fan should like them is simple. Mass Effect has always been about 'action and consequence'. Barely any decisions you make in Mass Effect 3 allows you to see the long term consequence, including the final choice, which you barely have a say in.

Modifié par John Never Dies, 14 mars 2012 - 08:34 .

[Dragoonlordz]

SCass2009 wrote...

I've posted this before but I'll say again - Bioware can blame themselves for the reaction to the ends, they hyped it up waaaaaayy too much!

I didn't think the endings were too bad (well, except for the flying away and getting stranded on a planet that resembled the one from Predators lol), just a bit puzzled as to why they didn't have some sort of ending showing what happened to everyone Dragon Age:Origins style ....

On the plus side, at least Sheppard didn't find a dog kennel ontop of the Citadel with a golden Labrador controlling the reapers

I couldn't resist trying to shoot the kid since felt he was to blame for it all even though knew could not hit him.

[Kakaw]

I liked the end choices and the endings. Lots of emotions.

I didn't understand the role of that kid and the reapers. The cycle is good and all. But, the crucible opened up new options for the kid! Woo. lol. what? That "kid" somehow has alot of power and exists in whatever way, and he is giving up "the cycle" once he sees the crucible? Why was he helping shepard, and why didn't he do something like this sooner? Why did he need shepards body and soul? :s He already reaped milions of humans - why not use any of them? To me it was just strange writing. Suddenly a god-like character appears and lays down some very weird rules.

I was taken aback. When I saw him I was like "who the **** are you, and what is going on?". I was pretty much confused and dumbfounded, to the point of not being able to absorb the entire dialogue. I say this as a bad thing, because it wasn't a pleasant experience.

Why did he allow shepard to change the universe? Why did he NEED shepard to change the universe? He feels so paradoxical, to the point where I have to say he was just an illusion

John Never Dies wrote...

Give me the same exact ending.
Just fill in the gaps, tell me in general what happens to the choices I
made in the game that will not really have a outcome for years(EX:
Krogans, I would like to now what happens not imagine the millions of
outcomes).

I'm not sure I see the issue here. You already decided what to do about the genophage, and MY Wrex is very eager to populate numerous worlds, and sendsme a letter saying his female is already with child. Most conflicts are resolved before the actual ending. With the mass relays gone, people will be stranded however; Wrex won't populate 10 worlds; only the ones he can (possibly) reach with FTL drives. There won't be a council, there won't be alot of anything inter-planetary. Only a smaller region of solar systems will be reachable for those with FTL drives and fuel. Maybe after time, interstellar relations will arise once more, but for now it is pretty much each to their own; all depending on what you did with your ME3 playthrough. For me, the quarians have settled on their homeworld, and the geth are helping them out. I don't expect any of the quarian military to ever get back to their homeworld, seeing as they're pretty much stranded on earth, but they will probably help rebuild and rerproduce on earth.. I mean, there are some details left -- like what happened to shepard (!!) being an obvious one. So far this one comes down to belief; what do you believe happened? Did he survive and wake up in the rubble? Does he find a new purpose being the king of the reapers? Or does he live on in the bonds of organic and synthetic life? Or is he just gone? This part is kinda up to you and me to decide what we believe. . . And for the Normandy crew - well, somehow everybody ended up back on the normandy and got stranded.. so.. Yeah. Everyone partaking in the battle are stuck on earth; everyone on the Normandy got stuck on that planet; everybody else got stuck on their semi-reaped homeworld (or died on the citadel). You could probably ask "what about omega? What about Illium? In what state is every single planet? How bad are the damages on every world?" and... well... it doesn't really matter. Most of it is in quite a bad state, but no planet is reaped to the point of no salvation; they can all still sustain life. Considering Omega wasn't a planet, it might not have life support anymore but, whatever - it was a pisshole ^^

Imo I only wish I knew more, or less, about that kid. He was a cop-out, as what he represented probably required alot more explanation; so they just ultimately gave The Cycle a face and left it at that, and gave shepard the power to magically end the cycle.

Modifié par Kakaw, 15 mars 2012 - 03:18 .

[Dragoonlordz]

^ I do not think he was actually a kid per se obviously but simply an AI present within the Citadel all this time at it's core. From there controlled the Reapers and the maintained the place via the Keepers who were upgraded from a previous species to serve it's needs. He was always present but had no form of his own (hence merely represented as a child from Shepards mind as VI) probably due to size and amount of data the core itself was probably vast. That to me explains the AI which may of felt god like but he did not have the crucible which was developed by others so his power and influence was limited to controlling the Reapers and Keepers.

Once the crucible had been developed this gave other opportunities available for it but again was designed for non AI interface so he could not make the choices himself, an interace which only works with those who have not been indoctrinated as it even said itself. It was already known and shown that noone has access to the core of the Citadel and is the reason why the Keepers are shown to kill all that try to enter in series itself LoSB video section on board brokers ship.

I also agree with you for me all major choices were resolved prior to even reaching that point during the game itself. The only thing left I wished for was a emotional element added in the form of final scene, they delivered this to me very well.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 mars 2012 - 04:52 .

[Kakaw]

^ Didn't the kid say he created the cycle? .. I was so thrown off by that dialogue tho', didn't know what to think anymore ^^ but I think he said that. I realize the kids form came from shepards mind. But yeah, didn't he say he created the cycle? .. Also, what is this "chaos"? He created the cycle in response to chaos. Is it that the reapers want to reap, but he somehow prevents them from reaping lower life forms? Also why does he feel the need to "preserve" life by harvesting it and "turning" it into reapers? He must atleast be an AI. I keep coming back to the same question - why did shepard and the crucible suddenly present 3 new options? The options are to end the cycle (which he thinks is neccessary), and why does he choose to help shepard end the cycle (..which he still thinks is neccessary). He is after all also the catalyst... so he is the one making it work, but he needs shepard to touch the controls, dive into a beam, or to shoot open something I can't remember what was ^^

I saw the reapers as a means to let new biological life evolve. When one species is too dominant, the smaller ones don't get a chance to evolve anymore (e.g during the prothean cycle); and it prevents any AI from extinguishing life altogether. The reapers are only a means to whipe out the dominant species. The reapers are just the "essence" of milions of bodies harvested into creating new reapers. "The kid" created the reapers to control this thing he calls chaos (biological evolution?). He is now open to destroying the reapers through the crucible.

So... To prevent any synthetic life form from becoming all-powerful, biological life must be reaped. If "biologics" are left to evolve further and further, they will risk creating an "unbound" AI smart enough that will evolve much faster than any biologic race can control, and so all biological life risk being doomed. This would mean chaos (?). The reapers were created to prevent this chaos. Biological life is stored/preserved inside the reapers (in whatever strange form), meaning harvesting is better than extinction (what an unnatural way to be preserved...).

In a way it is a self-fulfilling apocalypse. The only safety-net is that more primitive life forms will be left alone, and so biological life will never risk being entirely doomed, but they will also be doomed to stagnate, because an AI will come and swoop them up in a doomsday scenario at a certain point in their evolution. So basically an AI is making sure that no AI becomes all-powerful and kill people. How does it accomplish this? By killing people so they can never make AIs.

So this was the sollution to "chaos". Now, was he tired of his own creation, so he let shepard kill himself in the crucible? and why did shepards disintegrated body release huge amounts of green energy that turned everyone into synthetic hybrids? Ok, sheps body was already half synthetic, so he was perhaps the catalyst of the catalyst (the kid being the catalyst per say). Also, shep controlling the reapers.. It must mean that the kid-person-thingy had 0 control over the reapers, yet knew everything about them, and all it took was a person to touch those handles to take full control of the reapers. Ok, shepard was the only one who showed up alive, and I wouldn't trust the illusive man to control the reapers, but, it is a kind of magical sollution that just presented itself last minute, through a obviously very powerful character that had come to despise his own creation, yet did his best, but had absolutely no control over the reapers once they were created. Hmmm. What is going on?

I'm sorry, I should have stopped 2 paragraphs ago.

Modifié par Kakaw, 15 mars 2012 - 05:17 .

[Dragoonlordz]

In theory he may have already been hundreds of thousands of years in the making before he noticed the cycle (meaning constant wars) of which he then took over a form of syntheic life and eventually they became the Reapers and started all cycles. Chaos I think just means what he implies the wars that happen between races over time always over his creation he noticed occuring, and hence started on his solution which later became a cycle. I don't think he helped Shepard at the end as much as people think. He could not stop Shepard being in VI form of an AI lifeform. He therefore stated the options open to Shepard of which he could not stop Shepard from picking one in first place. The catalyst is the Citadel and he is the core of the Citadel therefore he is the catalyst (imho). Now I do not know if the core was built prior to being part of the Citadel but that would seem likely to me and he was added to the creation at some stage as one manner or might have been built alongside the Citadel to begin with.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 mars 2012 - 05:04 .