498 réponses à ce sujet

[chibilombax]

Well. I'm quite envious you like the endings. But I'll have to disagree with you. I appreciate you taking the time to type all that out. It was at least better worded then some of the other forums I've seen.

You shared your thoughts. I'll share one of mine. Doesn't it feel rushed?

[Dragoonlordz]

dkear1 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

He is no god, he is not all knowing either. He is an AI advanced he may be but no god child by any means.

Logically there is less potential risk involved in starting again than trying to continually patch a broken system and time is irrelevant factor as an AI for himself. Not just risk to each other as a species but also a risk primarily to himself and his ability to control what he felt was chaos, if he defended and left to continue to evolve they could find a way to disable him and ruin what he thought was the good he was doing. As a machine aka AI himself he does not rely on emotion to make judgements. 

Except that the game implies that he is a god child.  You don't get to question him, or call him on his BS.  Hell I had just made peace between the geth and quarians.  Does this count for anything.........nope.

So the game through the god like child forces us to meekly choose between three bad options like a beggar for table scraps.  If you are fine with it GREAT.  Happy for you.    Me.........no thanks.  I choose my paragon option and tell him to send the code that fries the reapers.  Or if I am making a renegade run I hack his database and fry the reapers AND him.

Didn't get those options.  Why not?

Why are you asking me? 

I won't deny it is getting quite frustrating people come in and somehow they expect me to answer their problems with the ending when they were not problems for myself because the amount of exposition and clarity of all remaining elements is not what I seeked in the ending as stated in the first thread post. 

I wanted an emotional farewell to my character at the end, all choices I cared about happened during the game. In the end I picked to pull back the Reapers and I was happy with that choice. Making that choice through the perspective of character not overlord who knows every alternative, this made the ending (in character) hard and I enjoyed that choice regardless of all being similar or not). The enjoyment in that choice was in that it made me pause for thought.

I don't have magical solutions to everyone else's problems I merely stated why I personally enjoyed the endings. If other people needed more to enjoy it like I did thats fine but I am not the god child I don't have the answers every single person seeks, I just mentioned why I liked it in my original post.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 mars 2012 - 05:47 .

[Dragoonlordz]

chibilombax wrote...

Well. I'm quite envious you like the endings. But I'll have to disagree with you. I appreciate you taking the time to type all that out. It was at least better worded then some of the other forums I've seen.

You shared your thoughts. I'll share one of mine. Doesn't it feel rushed?

Not to me, the game lasted 45 hours on normal difficulty for me because I did everything and would of vastly been longer if I upped the difficulty so the game length was fine for me. As for the ending I consider the moment you arrived back on in the Sol system the beginning of the ending and it lasted until the end of the grandfather and child talking on the planet scene.

[MrRiadon]

I can see how you can accept the ending but LOVE? Were you on ecstasy or something?

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

I respect your opinion. Though bioware stated that they had 16 different endings, and I think they even stated there was a "golden" ending at one point. I received only three endings that are almost exactly alike.

Also, even if you liked the endings you have to admit. They could have done a much better job on handling said endings, right? =/

[Dragoonlordz]

MrRiadon wrote...

I can see how you can accept the ending but LOVE? Were you on ecstasy or something?

I can assure you despite my avatar I am a very reasonable and rational person. I say loved the ending because the amount of times I smiled, felt joy and felt sorrow from what I considered the ending which was upon entering the Sol system happened so many times during that time that it validates the increase of classification from liked alone to loved. But as I said it is personal, a preference and subjective I do not expect everyone feels the same in fact I know many do not but none of their problems invalidates my enjoyment gained.

[Dragoonlordz]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I respect your opinion. Though bioware stated that they had 16 different endings, and I think they even stated there was a "golden" ending at one point. I received only three endings that are almost exactly alike.

Also, even if you liked the endings you have to admit. They could have done a much better job on handling said endings, right? =/

As far as I am concerned things can always have been improved and there has never been a perfect game ever made. But they did enough to make me happy and enjoy the ending with what they produced personally. 

[mgoss]

I loved the ending too. I think people are just in shocked about how different it was. It definitely isn't poorly written or made. It being so opened ending leaves you thinking. If everything was answered, then there wouldn't much to talk about.

[Dragoonlordz]

greengoron89 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I don't percieve him as having the emotions to feel that he fancied himself anything. To him it may of seemed a logical way to handle what he thought was a problem and a threat if does nothing and leaving them evolve towards himself in finding a way to stop his solution.

That's how he presents himself, but he contradicts the Reapers as we've known them up until that point. Reapers have always possessed this kind of "god complex" where they believe themselves beyond the comprehension of "rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh", and indoctrinate all organics (and synthetics) into worshipping them as a kind of deity.

This doesn't really fit with the picture the Catalyst paints for us, however (a problem I personally have with the ending), yet he still possesses this moral superiority over organic and synthetic life that he literally "plays god" with the "lesser" beings. Still indicative of a god complex, yet not quite consistent with what Reapers were previously presented as.

I do not feel he is the Repears but merely orders them to do what he requires when he requires them to do so. I think the Reapers themselves started out much like the rebel Geth of a cycle long ago and he interfaced and made them through generations evolve into what we now know as Reapers. To me the Reapers are still capable of independant thought and reason and that is their own but he when required overrides their goals to do his bidding when needed. 

[RiouHotaru]

Hear hear OP. It's good to know that there are folks who can enjoy the endings. I've had a few friends get extremely pissy with me because they hated the endings and felt my defense of the endings was an insult to their intelligence. This after I'd done NOTHING but explain why I liked the endings.

Apparently you either have to hate the endings, or you're an idiot. But then just because a large number of people hold a view doesn't make the view fact.

After all, it was fairly obvious to me the open-ness of the ending was to allow for DLC and future titles, and so far, tweets by the devs have done nothing to counter that view, and in fact support that speculation.

It feels hypocritical that if you give reasons to hate the endings, it's infalliable logic, but if you like the endings, all of your reasons are inherently flawed for no other reason than the fact you like the endings.

[LotharanAeron]

It was advertised and therefore gamers were under the impression this would tie everything up. Not everything needs to be detailed but enough resolution to close off the previous journey. Leaving things open for the future is fine, and a lot of angry and sad players might be fine if we were told the "real" ending or whatever is going to be in the dlc.

There is nothing wrong with the endings themselves, but they would have worked far better ending part 1 or 2 of a trilogy. The expectation is that a story arc will conclude with a satisfying resolution in part 3, not part 3 with change.

[Dragoonlordz]

All Dead wrote...

Dragoonlordz, iirc you are a good poster/contributor to the forums, and I like your posts in this thread. I almost totally DISAGREE with you on the endings, but I support your feedback to Bioware, regardless (especially since it isn't the rude, pseudo-intellectual/sophist, condescending kind of pro-ending threads I've been seeing lately). I think it's perfectly fine to state if and why or why not you liked something and not have to have your opinion, sanity and personal character scrutinized to death as if you were on trial for murder.

Me, I hated more of what we didn't get than what we got. Others have made the case for it much better than I could express, so I'm not one for trying to convert anyone. I'm not angry or hating Bioware or anything like that... in fact, like many others have stated, the rest of the game is nearly flawless. Even the ending's penultimate scenes are incredibly performed. I hate the final hollow results of the decisions I supposedly made, but the scene with Shep, Anderson and TIM is great, and Hale's performance as a bruised, broken, but still courageous Femshep was heartwrenching (in a GOOD way). Basically my take on ME 3 can be summed up with: "So much epic goodness tragically rendered moot by a half-baked ending."

I understand why others did not enjoy it, I have read most of the threads covering the subject both prior and after the games release. I just happen to not feel the same way. It is partly a shame though that I feel undersiege as it were for liking what they do not. So many people keep asking me questions which do not impact my enjoyment of the game because they require some way to resolve their own problem and lack of enjoyment for it. I can try to express how I see their problem but for me was not a problem to begin with.

To me this is one of the top four games I have bought in the past year alongside Skyrim for the vastness of the world and all that content and enviroment present for the player to explore and do in that title. Witcher 2 for it's amazing story and truly epic branching and choices including well written characters. Dues Ex HR for being the true follow up which kept alive the love I had of the first title in the series and the great enjoyment I gained through playing it even the boss battles did not matter so much to me because so many other elements made it so great. Mass Effect 3 for the emotional ride and conclusion to the trilogy as well as the way Shepards character felt more alive to me even though had less but more major impactful choices present prior to the end, the end itself being what I wished it to be which was emotional conclusion to my Shepards story.

Anyhows I am off to bed it's 6am here.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 mars 2012 - 06:17 .

[RiouHotaru]

The argument that "The endings make your choices pointless" is a silly one. The same argument could be applied to both ME1 and 2. At the conclusion of the game you are asked to make a choice, and this choices produces a cutscene with a little variation depending on your choice.

And those choices are presented to you INDEPENDENTLY of any decisions you've made during the game. Regardless of your alignment, your decisions, etc, you are always presented with the option of saving or killing the Council, and saving or destroying the Collector Base.

And you can't argue those don't count because they aren't the conclusion. The logic remains the same. You're given a selection of possible outcomes regardless of EVERYTHING you've done.

In fact Mass Effect 3 offers varying endings based on your choices. Does Earth survive your choice? Does Shepard survive your choice? Hell, one ENTIRE ending (Synthesis) requires that you have a minimum EMS score (which is based on your decisions) to even have access to it in the first place.

[coolerdude]

@OP I'm glad you enjoyed it. However, there is something I find really interesting about what you said:

"It made me smile at some points, slight sorrow at others. It was a good ending because it made me feel happy and sorrowful for many reasons. I loved it"

Your basic reason for liking the ending is based on what you felt. Which isn't a problem in most cases, but here's what I'm getting.

I admit: the score for the ending scenes were incredibly amazing. It builds so much emotion. So much so that it can influence ones emotions. Therefore, "feeling" everything you felt is understandable. In fact, I felt them myself. But based on what I've read, you don't seem to CLEARLY understand why people like me are NOT happy.

Based on your suggestions, we should try using our imaginations to fill the holes of what had happened. But thats where the underlying problem is. By taking into account what the game HAS given to us (ie information concerning what happens if you pick a certain ending, what happens if a relay is destroyed, current state of the universe, etc), what we can infer (or "imagine") is that there is absolutely no hope for everyone in the universe.

Think about what you have done at the end. You destroyed the mass relays. The fleet you assembled is stuck. Turians, Asari, Salarians, Krogans, and especially the QUARIANS will most likely NEVER see their homeworld again. And guess where they are stuck? Right over Earth. DO you understand what this implies?

Next we have our "happy" crew on that planet. Guess what? They are STRANDED. This isnt inferred. This is FACT given by the game. We don't know what planet or system they are in, and with the Relays destroyed, guess what? They arent getting rescued.

Knowing this. Do you still think we can imagine ourselves into being blissfully happy like you are?

In fact, how could you? Boggles the mind, it does.

This pretty much sums up our stance:

Please watch it if you still want to viewed as an objective fan.

[Linus108]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Hear hear OP. It's good to know that there are folks who can enjoy the endings. I've had a few friends get extremely pissy with me because they hated the endings and felt my defense of the endings was an insult to their intelligence. This after I'd done NOTHING but explain why I liked the endings.

Apparently you either have to hate the endings, or you're an idiot. But then just because a large number of people hold a view doesn't make the view fact.

After all, it was fairly obvious to me the open-ness of the ending was to allow for DLC and future titles, and so far, tweets by the devs have done nothing to counter that view, and in fact support that speculation.

It feels hypocritical that if you give reasons to hate the endings, it's infalliable logic, but if you like the endings, all of your reasons are inherently flawed for no other reason than the fact you like the endings.

I don't understand why anyone should be pissy with someone else, just because they enjoyed the ending. This I don't get. 

I could understand someone being pissy, because they hated the ending, and someone that liked the ending was calling them a "whiner". Or saying you just didn't "get it". But this goes both ways. I think the problem here is, most people percieve the game to have been poorly written technically. See this article here:

http://www.gamefront...ns-are-right/2/

Most are not making the argument that the ending wasn't enjoyable, rather that there is so much technically wrong with it. So basically, if someone did enjoy the ending - it's hard for some to reconcile with how someone could enjoy an ending that they believe to be so poorly written (plot holes, deus ex machine, incoherent, lore erreors etc.). As the poster above me said, this is an argument based on emotion vs storytellin. 

I think that is where the disconnect is. Either way, regardless how you feel about the ending, people should not be attacking each other. If you loved or hated the ending, your opinion is valid. I just hate that this is turning into a: "you are a whiner, complainer, entitled, you don't get it". And "you are dumb for liking this, you just don't get it. You don't understand the ending, so that's why you like it".

Modifié par Linus108, 15 mars 2012 - 06:49 .

[shurryy]

People keep thinking they are "Unique" and make titles like "Am I the only one?" "I am SURE I am the only one" ...
Seriously folks... How many ****ING people do you think lives on this planet?! You're never the only one and you NEVER will be! Unless you rack up a killcount of 10000 then you'll probably be the first! Or managed to fart through your nose! Or something rediculous nobody has ever seen before which you will have to spend a long time looking for!

[Zen_Mojo]

Some endings require a lot of reflection and consideration before we truly appreciate what they mean. But the endings to Mass Effect 3 aren't ambiguous. You're told in explicit detail what the Catalyst thinks, what its plans are, and what your actions entail. And they are pretty poor all around given the realities of the galaxy many players have shaped at that point.

[Dragoonlordz]

coolerdude wrote...

@OP I'm glad you enjoyed it. However, there is something I find really interesting about what you said:

"It made me smile at some points, slight sorrow at others. It was a good ending because it made me feel happy and sorrowful for many reasons. I loved it"

Your basic reason for liking the ending is based on what you felt. Which isn't a problem in most cases, but here's what I'm getting.

I admit: the score for the ending scenes were incredibly amazing. It builds so much emotion. So much so that it can influence ones emotions. Therefore, "feeling" everything you felt is understandable. In fact, I felt them myself. But based on what I've read, you don't seem to CLEARLY understand why people like me are NOT happy.

Based on your suggestions, we should try using our imaginations to fill the holes of what had happened. But thats where the underlying problem is. By taking into account what the game HAS given to us (ie information concerning what happens if you pick a certain ending, what happens if a relay is destroyed, current state of the universe, etc), what we can infer (or "imagine") is that there is absolutely no hope for everyone in the universe.

Think about what you have done at the end. You destroyed the mass relays. The fleet you assembled is stuck. Turians, Asari, Salarians, Krogans, and especially the QUARIANS will most likely NEVER see their homeworld again. And guess where they are stuck? Right over Earth. DO you understand what this implies?

Next we have our "happy" crew on that planet. Guess what? They are STRANDED. This isnt inferred. This is FACT given by the game. We don't know what planet or system they are in, and with the Relays destroyed, guess what? They arent getting rescued.

Knowing this. Do you still think we can imagine ourselves into being blissfully happy like you are?

In fact, how could you? Boggles the mind, it does.

This pretty much sums up our stance:

Please watch it if you still want to viewed as an objective fan.

I'm not suggesting anyone does anything, I merely said why I liked it. I don't know why people assume that because I said that I liked it and explained why they think I did so in order to convince them they are wrong or that they could feel same way. I just said why I felt it was a good ending. I did not create this thread to convince anyone, I created it to let Bioware know why I liked it and that I liked it. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 mars 2012 - 02:59 .

[hawat333]

Armor - unscratched.
Shields - up
Barriers - up
Initiating Tech Armor Protocols - done

Jumps aboard - I like 'em too.

[Phideaux the Barbarian]

I have no problem with Shep dieing in the end. My to biggest complaints are 1) The lack of follow up on what happens to everyone else. I mean, I have been following some of these people since ME1. 2) This is actually my biggest grip. I HATE the fact BW is trying to force me to play MP. It's the only way to see the "good" endings. I hate MP with a passion. One of the reasons that I so enjoy ME is that it is a single player game. Same reason that I enjoy Skyrim and the same reason that I stopped buying Modern Warfare type games. Most people are jerks but give them the anonymity of being online and they become total ass hats.
I played ME2 over and over to see the different choices and the effects they had, bought all the DLC etc. I don't think that I will be going that route with 3. I think one play through is enough. I can't say I hated the the game but I didn't like it nearly as much as the first two.

[Malal Belakor]

Phideaux the Barbarian wrote...

I have no problem with Shep dieing in the end. My to biggest complaints are 1) The lack of follow up on what happens to everyone else. I mean, I have been following some of these people since ME1. 2) This is actually my biggest grip. I HATE the fact BW is trying to force me to play MP. It's the only way to see the "good" endings. I hate MP with a passion. One of the reasons that I so enjoy ME is that it is a single player game. Same reason that I enjoy Skyrim and the same reason that I stopped buying Modern Warfare type games. Most people are jerks but give them the anonymity of being online and they become total ass hats.
I played ME2 over and over to see the different choices and the effects they had, bought all the DLC etc. I don't think that I will be going that route with 3. I think one play through is enough. I can't say I hated the the game but I didn't like it nearly as much as the first two.

but you can have the best ending without multiplayer

i don't want to read all the 6 pages... but  Joker and Ida, togheter in a uncorrupted garden... they looks like the new Adam and Eve in the garden of eden (i took the middle path at the end, and what i said makes A LOT of sense)
am I the only one who have thought this?