275 réponses à ce sujet

[PyroTechNiK]

 I guess I will be getting the game through other means and purchase a legit copy used in a few months.

Modifié par PyroTechNiK, 14 mars 2012 - 04:12 .

[Korusus]

Magocract wrote...

Standard denial that there's anything wrong response - same rubbish that we got from Mike Laidlaw when DA2 came out.

Bottom line is that Casey Hudson is going to go down in gaming history as producing one of the worst game endings of all time, and no amount of denial is going to change that.

Absolutely, I had respect for Casey that I didn't have for Laidlaw, but this interview reminds me so much of how Laidlaw initially responded to DA2 criticism.  BioWare interview PR 101.   It was even predictable that their first response to the issue would be through the medium of an interview, exactly like DA2.

But what's funny is the sheer weight of the criticism lobbed at DA2 forced Laidlaw to change his position after a few months, and I suspect Casey's view will evolve rather rapidly as well if only because I think he genuinely cares about what fans want (he just may not always be able to deliver everything because this is New BioWare).  It's such a stupid issue to dance around, ME3 is nowhere near as bad as DA2.  It would be a shame for the Mass Effect series to end on such a sour note just because of BioWare's intransigence.  

The game doesn't even have an epilogue for crying out loud, how pathetic is that.

[DarkHod]

I think it's underestimated just how important a loyal fan base and good word of mouth is. You can characterise people on here as butthurt trolls, but in reality they are the people who pre-order an overpriced Collector's edition, they are the guys who buy the DLC and they are the guys who spread the good word of mouth.

BioWare are actively attempting to make their games appeal to the mainstream, to the point where their RPG games now come with 'action modes' and online multiplayer. The ending of ME3 was awful and lazy, but I was also disheartened by just how linear this game was up to that point. It was a good story but it was BioWare's story, not my own. This is a letdown in a series which was sold to me in 2007 as a trilogy where I can create my own path.

After the rush job that was Dragon Age II, and the fact ME3 was a step-back from ME2, I am rethinking my devotion to BioWare. With DAII I never brought the DLC as a protest of my discontent, and I plan to do the same for ME3 unless some serious endgame altering DLC is released.

As for the future, I am done pre-ordering expensive collector editions. I will now wait til launch day and pick up a standard copy. If DA3 disappoints I worry I may even start to buy BW games on release, perhaps picking up second hand copies I stumble across.

I just see trends developing in BioWare games that I personally don't like, and make me think that this company is going in a direction where they no longer make games I fall in love with. DAO and ME were the last games I truly felt where BioWare games. ME2 made changes but still kept that BW charm, but ME3 and DA2 just shocked me with some of the choices they made.

I also don't like how BioWare are conducting themselves as a company. Apart from day one DLC, there was also the cheap cash in attempt that was ME: Deception and the fact they refused to comment on the import bug until after release - despite the fact a huge post was made about this issue and was on the front page for weeks before.

classy move, BioWare.

If you all moan on here like you did when DAII was released but just run out to pre-order a CE of the next game they release then you have no right to moan about the direction BioWare is going in as you are funding it.

[jeweledleah]

instantdeath999 wrote...

I personally do subscribe to the "video games are an art more than a product" line of thought.  In that regard, they aren't obliged to change their ending, any more than an author would be obliged to change the ending of his novel after bad fan reaction.  Despite opinions to the contrary, Mass Effect is still very much Bioware's story.

If he wants to stick by his ending, then that's fine.  Doesn't make the ending any less terrible, though.

the flaw with this reasoning is that whenever art of any sort done commercialy - the consumer, the target audience of that art  becomes directly involved and has a direct affect on what happens to aforementioned art.

this is far older then video games - the great artists through the ages worked on comission.  what they painted, sculpted, wrote, etc - it was done to customer specification.  its what they needed to do if they wanted to get paid.  the notion of art for the sake of art is barely a century old.

now.  no one is saying that art for the sake of art is a bad thing.  on the contrary.  however.  Masss Effect 3 is NOT this type of art.  when Casey Hudson says in an interview that bioware co-created ME3 with their fans (and it its visible in practicaly every single minute of the game, little references to fan memes, inclusion of many and varied fan suggestions/requests, etc) - he directly admits that their art is meant to be commercial.  and I will never put down commercial art, especialy if you concider that most of what Miccelangello, Da Vinchi, etc did was in fact commercial art.  but if you think they never had a customer come up and tell them - you know i don't like this, change it.  you would be very very wrong.  and you know what they did?  changed it.

[ognick23]

kbct wrote...

ognick23 wrote...

your right they are no official numbers overall but come on it sold nearly a million in one day in the US added to the fact that even the regular edition was sold out in most places plus it just hit over seas on friday. Do you really think it didnt at least hit 2.5 million worldwide? and i'll even take away $100,000 and pretend that many people returned it (even though once you open the game you dont get a full refund most places) you really think 2.4 million isnt good ?

The problem is you're speculating about most things. Let's wait and see if they sell 2.4 million. So far, they sold over 1 million units before the backlash began.

i agree,  only time will tell

[instantdeath999]

Right, even in the past, before everything got really commercialized, a lot of art was made with the consumer in mind.  Sherlock Holmes was brought back to life, after all, due to bad fan reception (some things never change :happy:).  Of course, these later stories are seen as not as good, but that's another topic. 

They really should change the ending... I can't stress that enough.  I just don't quite feel it's "our story as much as theirs".

[CerberusSoldier]

Oh I plan on trading ME 3 in eventually

[element eater]

'What are your thoughts on the reaction to the game’s endings?

I didn’t want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people'

hehe that made me smile i havent seen the end as im yet to play(import bug) but from what ive seen the polarisation seems to be something along the line of most people hate the ending and a few dont

Modifié par element eater, 14 mars 2012 - 04:21 .

[CerberusSoldier]

instantdeath999 wrote...

Right, even in the past, before everything got really commercialized, a lot of art was made with the consumer in mind.  Sherlock Holmes was brought back to life, after all, due to bad fan reception (some things never change :happy:).  Of course, these later stories are seen as not as good, but that's another topic. 

They really should change the ending... I can't stress that enough.  I just don't quite feel it's "our story as much as theirs".

   



Video games are not art and they never will be art

[kcitee]

Casey Hudson pre ME3 release...

http://www.oxm.co.uk...-sophisticated/

[ognick23]

Vasarkian wrote...

ognick23 wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

kbct wrote...

ognick23 wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

ognick23 wrote...

lol i wouldnt apologize either, so what if you dont buy their games 2,900,000 other people will

Not necessarily.

It's not really known how many people who aren't on these forums are actually disgusted or not with the endings.

like i said 2,900,000

Do you have a source for that number? I heard it was 3.5 million units shipped,1 million units purchased.

I think more than 1 mil were purchased, BUT I do know that a lot of copies will be returned if this is the proper sentiment of people as in the case of DA2.

your right they are no official numbers overall but come on it sold nearly a million in one day in the US added to the fact that even the regular edition was sold out in most places plus it just hit over seas on friday. Do you really think it didnt at least hit 2.5 million worldwide? and i'll even take away $100,000 and pretend that many people returned it (even though once you open the game you dont get a full refund most places) you really think 2.4 million isnt good ?

Same thing happened with DA2, a small percentage defended it and the large percentage eventually overpowered them when the outcry became too loud to ignore. DA2 had issues of repetition and lack of any real attention to quality in most cases, ME3 has the issues of making you do something for 27+ hours that doesn't actually matter and is just replaced by a generic force and then throws you an ending that also ignores what you did throughout the entirety of the series.

The issues are staggeringly similar. Also, with the outcry against TOR and DA2, this being their third game that is ending poorly, the returns will be ridiculously high, and you can force full refunds if you directly call or return it quickly enough.

We'll know in a few weeks what the accurate sales charts for most methods of play are, but you'd be fooling yourself if you think people won't return it.

lol why do you guys continue trying to compare ME3 to DA 2?  i dont play DA but from what ive heard about it the entire game sucked not just 5 minutes, and no i dont defend the ending because i also believe it couldve been done alot better but i respect Bioware for giving up their time with family and friends and many sleepless nights to put out 3 amazing games wile i did nothing but sit in a chair and play them

Modifié par ognick23, 14 mars 2012 - 04:29 .

[VAIOMANIAC]

He is not confirming or denying anything related to the endings he is evading the question.
They are probably wondering how and when to respond right now.

[Farbautisonn]

Wise Men wrote...

Great response from Casey. Very professional and mature. Not giving in to the negativity and yet still acknowledging that they look at fan feedback.  I love how he avoids making a commitment at all. He lays out what their goal was (in terms of the ending being memorable etc.).   This leaves him open to do what ever they decide with no pressure from making a promise.

I also think his response will make some gamers feel the same way a child feels when his / her parent ignore his tantrum. They will probably feel even more upset, proclaiming something like, "He missed the point!" "I want him to change the game for me not, just make a statement about their vision of the game etc!"

I say Bravo Casey.



(I can't wait for the DLC he teased.)
 

-He addressed the loyal fanbase as if they were a hostile crowd, not acknowledgeing their concerns nor adressing them directly. He addressed them like a person with a weekend course in public relations. Thats not going to bite him in the arse at all. We all know how much stock people put in politicians.

[_Martyr_]

He popped Evasion and Ghostly Strike.

Wait, wrong game.

[Vasarkian]

[quote]CerberusSoldier wrote...

[quote]instantdeath999 wrote...

Right, even in the past, before everything got really commercialized, a lot of art was made with the consumer in mind.  Sherlock Holmes was brought back to life, after all, due to bad fan reception (some things never change :happy:).  Of course, these later stories are seen as not as good, but that's another topic. 

They really should change the ending... I can't stress that enough.  I just don't quite feel it's "our story as much as theirs".
[/quote]   



Video games are not art and they never will be art

[/quote]

Actually the definition of art disagrees with you.

[/quote]


lol why do you guys continue trying to compare ME3 to DA 2?  i dont play DA but from what ive heard about it the entire game sucked not just 5 minutes, and no i dont defend the ending because i also believe it couldve been done alot better but i respect Bioware for giving up their time with family and friends and many sleepless nights to put out 3 amazing games wile i did nothing but sit in a chair and play them[/quote]

Dragon Age 2 didn't suck entirely, it just had the lack of quality at certain specific points, reused environments and cheap ways to make them "different", and some terrible level design / game design points. 

Modifié par Vasarkian, 14 mars 2012 - 04:37 .

[Farbautisonn]

DarkHod wrote...

I think it's underestimated just how important a loyal fan base and good word of mouth is. You can characterise people on here as butthurt trolls, but in reality they are the people who pre-order an overpriced Collector's edition, they are the guys who buy the DLC and they are the guys who spread the good word of mouth.

BioWare are actively attempting to make their games appeal to the mainstream, to the point where their RPG games now come with 'action modes' and online multiplayer. The ending of ME3 was awful and lazy, but I was also disheartened by just how linear this game was up to that point. It was a good story but it was BioWare's story, not my own. This is a letdown in a series which was sold to me in 2007 as a trilogy where I can create my own path.

After the rush job that was Dragon Age II, and the fact ME3 was a step-back from ME2, I am rethinking my devotion to BioWare. With DAII I never brought the DLC as a protest of my discontent, and I plan to do the same for ME3 unless some serious endgame altering DLC is released.

As for the future, I am done pre-ordering expensive collector editions. I will now wait til launch day and pick up a standard copy. If DA3 disappoints I worry I may even start to buy BW games on release, perhaps picking up second hand copies I stumble across.

I just see trends developing in BioWare games that I personally don't like, and make me think that this company is going in a direction where they no longer make games I fall in love with. DAO and ME were the last games I truly felt where BioWare games. ME2 made changes but still kept that BW charm, but ME3 and DA2 just shocked me with some of the choices they made.

I also don't like how BioWare are conducting themselves as a company. Apart from day one DLC, there was also the cheap cash in attempt that was ME: Deception and the fact they refused to comment on the import bug until after release - despite the fact a huge post was made about this issue and was on the front page for weeks before.

classy move, BioWare.

If you all moan on here like you did when DAII was released but just run out to pre-order a CE of the next game they release then you have no right to moan about the direction BioWare is going in as you are funding it.

I very much agree with this.

The people who buy the "story-dlc" are the loyal fans. Hell they will likely buy anything. They will also buy in 3 months when the pew pew crowd have found somethin else and when the novelty has worn off. So naturally the first thing that gets pushed to keep the attention of the pew pew crowd will be new skins and kit for MP. Anything to keep them longer. Then when the novelty wears off, they will start catering to their loyal fans... as a hindthought.

Sorry guys. You are cattle. The only thing that is different this time is that the cattle went on a stampede and Bioware doesnt seem to have a clue as how to reign them back in.

[korni789]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

instantdeath999 wrote...

Right, even in the past, before everything got really commercialized, a lot of art was made with the consumer in mind.  Sherlock Holmes was brought back to life, after all, due to bad fan reception (some things never change :happy:).  Of course, these later stories are seen as not as good, but that's another topic. 

They really should change the ending... I can't stress that enough.  I just don't quite feel it's "our story as much as theirs".

   



Video games are not art and they never will be art

They are art, it just another media of sharing a story. You can do it like a true artist (No, not you Bioware!) or you can be just a mass producer (Bioware these days).

Modifié par korni789, 14 mars 2012 - 04:38 .

[OdanUrr]

instantdeath999 wrote...

Right, even in the past, before everything got really commercialized, a lot of art was made with the consumer in mind.  Sherlock Holmes was brought back to life, after all, due to bad fan reception (some things never change :happy:).  Of course, these later stories are seen as not as good, but that's another topic. 

They really should change the ending... I can't stress that enough.  I just don't quite feel it's "our story as much as theirs".

19th century fans. Gotta love them.

[instantdeath999]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

instantdeath999 wrote...

Right, even in the past, before everything got really commercialized, a lot of art was made with the consumer in mind.  Sherlock Holmes was brought back to life, after all, due to bad fan reception (some things never change :happy:).  Of course, these later stories are seen as not as good, but that's another topic. 

They really should change the ending... I can't stress that enough.  I just don't quite feel it's "our story as much as theirs".

   



Video games are not art and they never will be art

Yeah, can't disagree more on that.  Mass Effect is what I usually point to as a counter example... not sure what to do on a Mass Effect forum, though

OdanUrr wrote...

instantdeath999 wrote...

Right, even in the past, before everything got really commercialized, a lot of art was made with the consumer in mind.  Sherlock Holmes was brought back to life, after all, due to bad fan reception (some things never change [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]).  Of course, these later stories are seen as not as good, but that's another topic. 

They really should change the ending... I can't stress that enough.  I just don't quite feel it's "our story as much as theirs".

19th century fans. Gotta love them.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

I wouldn't want to see the Sherlock Holmes internet forums, if they were made then.  I think it might make us look like angry bugs 

Modifié par instantdeath999, 14 mars 2012 - 04:48 .

[GamerrangerX]

he evade the question,he kknow the ending was CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT

[Farbautisonn]

How many of you love the Hans Christian Andersen Fairytale: " The Little Match Girl"?

[B.Shep]

Agree, i also think he was simply evading the questions...

[kbct]

ognick23 wrote...

lol why do you guys continue trying to compare ME3 to DA 2?  i dont play DA but from what ive heard about it the entire game sucked not just 5 minutes, and no i dont defend the ending because i also believe it couldve been done alot better but i respect Bioware for giving up their time with family and friends and many sleepless nights to put out 3 amazing games wile i did nothing but sit in a chair and play them

We're comparing it because the user reviews are similar. Actually, they're lower for ME3. That means there might be similar trends in sales and how fans perceive the series over the long-run.

[heathxxx]

Perhaps having a glance at the forums here wasn't the best idea, before my copy of the game has even arrived from Amazon, to me in Spain.

After being so disappointed with DA2, I'd pretty much already made up my mind that ME3 would be the very last title I would buy, which falls under the EA banner and sadly therefore, BioWare.

Having enjoyed ME 1 & 2, it's hardly encouraging to read so much negativity regarding ME3, which reminds me of the situation with DA2 in many respects, certainly when I look at the more constructively critical views, here and elsewhere.

Of course, I shall play through the game and make up my own mind. Ultimately though, If I feel as disappointed with ME3 as I did with DA2, then for sure and just like with DA2, I won't be buying any DLC and I certainly won't be buying any more games from EA or BioWare. Simple as that.

One doubt that I can't help considering in all of this, was how ME3 was delayed for several months, following the release of DA2. Of course many factors could have contributed to that delay, but it's a niggling doubt that the "finished" product could potentially have been much, much worse...

[MadRabbit999]

Maybe it's because my English is not the best, but I do not understand that answer AT ALL, and considering their audience is targeted to countries which first language is not English, you'd think they could write it down a bit simpler...

Is he trying to say that the ending was made on purpose to be controversial?