176 réponses à ce sujet

[DrFrankenseuss]

I think I'm mostly glad that you talked about "torch and run" cause it is now very blatently obvious that this is what happened. I'm surprised EA would let them do that, cause it's something that impacts the shareholders isn't it?

For me the game ends after Shep and Anderson (he lived for me) look down on Earth and say they have the best seats in the house. After that the Crucible works and the reapers are destroyed.

Everything that actually happens after that is the development team flipping their fans and shareholders the bird -.-

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

recentio wrote...

That was an excellent read, sir. I hope you revise and print it and mail it to Bioware to show them both your thoughts and your conviction. Cheers!

That's what everyone is telling me, I may as well follow through!

Might as well do it.  Another well-constructed argument as to why the ending is objectively (not subjectively but many would argue both) terrible from a literary/storytelling mechanics perspective.  I really hope BioWare reads this.  (and these too)

[MetalCargo999]

Thanks for this. It's really weird actually. I was trying to go through another playhtrough of ME 3, and half way through the Mars mission, all the energy in me just got sucked out and I couldn't go on anymore. I feel closer to my beloved franchise on these forums, reading people with something to say like you than I do playing the game Mass Effect 3.

[din626]

Torching the franchise and running would make absolute sense if EA was planning to take the series in-house... and if EA didn't have a decent track record on actually taking old franchises, and actually doing pretty well by them.

Don't beleive me? Hear me out.

EA bought Westwood way back in the day and thus got the CnC rights with them. They released CnC Generals which, while not "traditional" to the CnC Franchise was actually a solid, entertaining RTS and dragged the game into the modern era. Fan feedback resulted in the expansion pack which gladly brought back the FMV's that everyone knew and loved.

Then along came CnC3 and oh boy, were we all happy because bounding back into the frame was the legendary Joseph D Kucan, followed by Tricia Helfer, Micheal Ironside and a barage of hollywood names all getting a chance to have a laugh and ham it up and was it good? Yes. Did it introduce new fans to the world? Yes. Did it play like a CnC game? Yes, yes it did.

Red Alert 3 went back to the cheery insanity of the Red Alert series that we adored, and even CnC4 tried to take us somewhere new, it didn't quite work but to see the end of Kucan's Kane was just brilliant and well done.

Another part of the EA empire? Involved the name System Shock. In spite of their attempts to bring about a third game being scuppered by an insurence company of all people they instead took what was clearly the nancesent basis of the game and made something utterly new that is utterly brilliant.

Dead Space and Dead Space 2 are the best horror games I have ever played and I am eagerly awaiting to see if a third game of that franchise will come about. I also own the anime films related to it.

All three of them.


So, if Casey has done this torching and running option, which increasingly seems likely considering how dark Bioware has been since this furore started, then I hope that EA actually steps in and sorts this mess out, mostly because it's reflecting badly on them and they actually have the power to sort matters out definitively.

Mostly because it seems there's plenty of lights on at Bioware, but clearly nobody's in control.

[Asuka Bianchini]

Well done!

[Ieldra]

Torching the franchise and running, yeah that was one thing I considered when I watched the endings. The reason doesn't really matter, if they don't do something to fix it they've likely put me off video games with this.

[Reptilian Rob]

I'll edit this tomorrow after my term paper is done. :I

[nomoredruggs]

I was listening to the soundtrack and came upon a track entitled "An ending once and for all"....and I thought well, they did go to great lenghts to make sure that's true....kind of fits the "torch the franchise and run", though I don't know if that's what they were really trying to do....

Regardless, you should print and mail that to Bioware!

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

din626 wrote...

EA bought Westwood way back in the day and thus got the CnC rights with them. They released CnC Generals which, while not "traditional" to the CnC Franchise was actually a solid, entertaining RTS and dragged the game into the modern era. Fan feedback resulted in the expansion pack which gladly brought back the FMV's that everyone knew and loved.

Then along came CnC3 and oh boy, were we all happy because bounding back into the frame was the legendary Joseph D Kucan, followed by Tricia Helfer, Micheal Ironside and a barage of hollywood names all getting a chance to have a laugh and ham it up and was it good? Yes. Did it introduce new fans to the world? Yes. Did it play like a CnC game? Yes, yes it did.

Red Alert 3 went back to the cheery insanity of the Red Alert series that we adored, and even CnC4 tried to take us somewhere new, it didn't quite work but to see the end of Kucan's Kane was just brilliant and well done.

I, and a very large segment of the C&C community would violently beg to differ with you sir.  C&C went to **** after EA took over. C&C died when Westwood closed and operations were moved from Vegas to LA, and so did a part of me inside.

Tiberium Wars was a MASSIVE retcon on the entire Tiberium storyline.  Don't even get me started on the atrocity that was C&C4.  They should be tried as war criminals for unleashing that monster.  Brilliant and well done?  It was just as bad as the ending of ME3.  Kucan was the only good thing about those two games.


As for Dead Space, wasn't that an original IP when Dead Space 1 came out?  Or is there something I never heard about?  Your opening remark says EA has a history of doing well with old franchises so Dead Space doesn't fit.  EA and other large publishers have an infamous vibe around them for obliterating good studios and franchises.  There are exceptions here and there, and in general EA is a monolith that people 'love to hate' so some of it might be projection, but it seems like a cycle as inevitable as the Reaper extinction.  Even so, if it were me at BioWare I don't think I would have the heart to do a torch and run to my own creation even if I thought it was going to be bastardized by EA as they try to milk it dry.   I'd want to remember it for what it was when it was good because the torch and run gives the fans the finger as well, not just the corporate overlords.


-edit- Anyone ever wonder WHY the forums suck at formatting when you copy/paste stuff?

Modifié par Mighty_BOB_cnc, 21 mars 2012 - 04:24 .

[Reptilian Rob]

nomoredruggs wrote...

I was listening to the soundtrack and came upon a track entitled "An ending once and for all"....and I thought well, they did go to great lenghts to make sure that's true....kind of fits the "torch the franchise and run", though I don't know if that's what they were really trying to do....

Regardless, you should print and mail that to Bioware!

I'm thinking about it actually, but at this point I wonder if they will listen at all.

[Ultra Prism]

This is exactly my thoughts, my N7 goodies feel like a joke to me played very well by Bioware ... The only reason got me playing 2nd and now 3rd is just because I really enjoy talking to characters ... I love them too much...but endings are reminder of great insult still

[dreman9999]

Thank you for telling us what we already know....That the ending makes no sense....
Anyway...did you tell your friend about the indoctrination theory?

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

Ultra Prism wrote...

This is exactly my thoughts, my N7 goodies feel like a joke to me played very well by Bioware ... The only reason got me playing 2nd and now 3rd is just because I really enjoy talking to characters ... I love them too much...but endings are reminder of great insult still

Yeah I'm starting to debate whther or not I want to kep wearing my N7 hoodie and paragon T-shirt.  I was considering getting that Liara sculpt, and I might do it anyway just because I like the character, but I'm having doubts now.

[cyrrant]

It's interesting to think that, since you introduced this travesty of an ending to your professor, it could potentially make its way into the literary world as one of the most spectacular failures for a sci-fi franchise of all time.

At least they would get their "unforgettable" ending. It would be in a textbook under the heading "Things you should never do".

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[Maro]

I'm surprised there aren't more people saying, "deus ex machina".  Not necessarily the best way to end a story, but the ending seemed literally to be, "god out of the machine".

[Reptilian Rob]

cyrrant wrote...

It's interesting to think that, since you introduced this travesty of an ending to your professor, it could potentially make its way into the literary world as one of the most spectacular failures for a sci-fi franchise of all time.

At least they would get their "unforgettable" ending. It would be in a textbook under the heading "Things you should never do".

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

The gamer's club at UCSD is in full riot mode, haha. 

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

Reptilian Rob wrote...
The gamer's club at UCSD is in full riot mode, haha. 

Oh it is is it?  Do tell.

[Reptilian Rob]

Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...
The gamer's club at UCSD is in full riot mode, haha. 

Oh it is is it?  Do tell.

Lots of people here are pissed as well, most of us are lit majors who do not tolerate plot holes of any type. We have written several literary articles about this to many sites, one of which was (including other's work) was published to the California Literature Review. 

We're all uptight canon ****s, and we don't take too kindly to copouts. 

[humes spork]

I got one of my former profs (who used to teach the philosophy and theory stuff at a tier 1 school) into Mass Effect years ago. The hilarity of watching a drunken 60-something play a third-person shooter aside, after ME3 came out he basically cornered me into telling him what happens. So I did. He actually thought about the ending a bit and liked it, he ceded that it was badly written but actually pointed out quite a few ways the ending is philosophically sound I hadn't considered prior.

[Reptilian Rob]

humes spork wrote...

I got one of my former profs (who used to teach the philosophy and theory stuff at a tier 1 school) into Mass Effect years ago. The hilarity of watching a drunken 60-something play a third-person shooter aside, after ME3 came out he basically cornered me into telling him what happens. So I did. He actually thought about the ending a bit and liked it, he ceded that it was badly written but actually pointed out quite a few ways the ending is philosophically sound I hadn't considered prior.

Tell him about the plot holes, if he's a lit professor $20 says he ****s his pants. 

[usmack5]

A well written article, but you don't need a college degree to analyze why the endings of Mass Effect 3 are hogwash. I basically argued all of the same points to a friend of a friend that LIKED the endings, although I could not change his mind on it. It is good, however, that we, as a fan community, are getting more people who are either influential and/or educated to speak on this issue. Bioware will have a hard time ignoring EVERYONE that criticizes the endings when they come from more diverse backgrounds and are not just dedicated fans (though they are the ones they should listen the most to).

[humes spork]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Tell him about the plot holes, if he's a lit professor $20 says he ****s his pants. 

He's a political theory and philosophy professor. His response was approximately "what plot holes" and started talking about Heidegger, and that's the point at which my eyes glazed over because I don't speak German and I've never fully understood Dasein.

The slap-and-tickle version is the starbrat externalizes the conflict between being for-others and for-itself, yet incapable of being in-itself, by making Reapers. Basically it's making excuses for its own existence because it can't handle the idea that its existence may actually be without meaning.

[Reptilian Rob]

humes spork wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Tell him about the plot holes, if he's a lit professor $20 says he ****s his pants. 

The slap-and-tickle version is the starbrat externalizes the conflict between being for-others and for-itself, yet incapable of being in-itself, by making Reapers. Basically it's making excuses for its own existence because it can't handle the idea that its existence may actually be without meaning.

classic circular logic, most literature that deals with "malform of existence" is written in parellel to the character.

ME3 only has a singular use of that motif, so it spins in circles and goes nowhere. 

[humes spork]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

classic circular logic, most literature that deals with "malform of existence" is written in parellel to the character.

ME3 only has a singular use of that motif, so it spins in circles and goes nowhere. 

Well, his point is it was done on purpose reinforce the fact the Reapers are so damn powerful they can do whatever they want. The characterization of a deific figure that can only actualize itself as for-others opposed to in-itself gave him a philosophical hard-on you could see from orbit, on the other hand.

Modifié par humes spork, 28 mars 2012 - 09:18 .