319 réponses à ce sujet

[HellbirdIV]

It does bug me because Tali did imply that she was attracted to FemShep in ME2 - not just "I consider you one of my best friends" but "I consider you one of my best friends and maybe..."

Personally I always felt that Garrus and Shepard have an awesome Bromance that is far more emotionally engaging than him as an LI, and in the same vein Tali works better as a beloved little sister... but some people don't share my opinion on that, and I think that, for their sake, Tali and Garrus should both have been same-sex romance options.

[Biotic_Warlock]

78stonewobble wrote...

I just find it kinda ironic that people fight for the right to be whatever they are in real life. Whereas when in a game they encounter something that doesn't match them it must be changed.

*cough*

Well just something to think about.

What the...?
Making a character bi doesn't affect those who could romance them or those who don't want to; they can ignore advances easily. Nothing is being CHANGED, just ADDED.

It's like rights IRL; giving equal rights to gays, HOW is that harmful to anyone? I fail to see how.

edit: So how could making Tali bi be a bad thing?

Also someone above who mentioned a quote from Tali in ME2 suggesting possible relationship with femshep... i need to find this!

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 22 avril 2012 - 02:57 .

[Kaelef]

lillitheris wrote...
If we go into ad absurdum territory, consider this exact parallel: why is a given LI (let's say Garrus) attracted to female Shepard no matter what she looks like, and no matter whether she's a renegade or not, no matter what she decides, no matter how she treats other people…? Realistically, all of those would be significant factors in attraction. The answer is that Garrus isn't written to have a realistic, static preference.

You want realistic? Out of N potential LIs for each sex, only 1 or 2 would actually be attracted to them in any given run, and weighted for humans. That could be randomized, even.

*clap* *clap* *clap*

Very well put.

I think it'd be cool if you could romance anyone in the game.  It would just be a question of some being more difficult than others.  For example, FemShep should be able to romance Tali, but it might take a lot more effort since she leans much more straight.  FemShep would have a much easier time romancing Kelly (again, as an example).

AlexMBrennan wrote...

I'd conjecture that once you cross the species-barrier, gender won't matter.

I don't know about gender not mattering at all, but I agree that you may feel a lot more flexible after getting past the species barrier.

ticklefist wrote...

It's a crazy idea but... maybe they talk to each other.

Ludicrous.

Modifié par Kaelef, 22 avril 2012 - 02:58 .

[ImperatorMortis]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

I'd conjecture that once you cross the species-barrier, gender won't matter.

I don't know about that. Just because someone wants an alien, doesn't mean he all of a sudden wants penis. 

[ahandsomeshark]

It definitely annoys me that she expresses interest to femshep in ME2 and nothing comes of it. I thought it was setting up a romance option for ME3.

[ahandsomeshark]

But that being said there's so little Tali content in this game I probably would have been dissapointed even with a romance option. I really don't understand why they choose to introduce a character who has been there since game 1 when you're nearly halfway through ME3.

[78stonewobble]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...

I just find it kinda ironic that people fight for the right to be whatever they are in real life. Whereas when in a game they encounter something that doesn't match them it must be changed.

*cough*

Well just something to think about.

What the...?
Making a character bi doesn't affect those who could romance them or those who don't want to; they can ignore advances easily. Nothing is being CHANGED, just ADDED.

It's like rights IRL; giving equal rights to gays, HOW is that harmful to anyone? I fail to see how.

edit: So how could making Tali bi be a bad thing?

Also someone above who mentioned a quote from Tali in ME2 suggesting possible relationship with femshep... i need to find this!

Well IMHO a game like this should be somewhat representative of society. For realism and atleast for me a certain immersion factor.

Meaning, with eg. relationships in mind and I was making the overall "design", there would be something for everyone. Not everyone for everyone.

Personally I think there is a certain lesson to be taught in: "If someone doesn't fit me it doesn't give me the right to try to change them."

So basically I like that garrus is garrus no matter what Shep I play. Not Garrus A to Shep B or something like that.

[ahandsomeshark]

To 78stone, I can dig your opinion, but I think a lot of people's issue is that Tali DOES express interest in femshep in ME2 even if you don't prompt it. So it's not like we're demanding she be changed, we're more like confused at the conflicting writing/characterization.

[lillitheris]

78stonewobble wrote...

Well IMHO a game like this should be somewhat representative of society. For realism and atleast for me a certain immersion factor.

Realistically, in 150 years, we're going to have a lot more gay and bisexual people out in the open. Realistically, being attracted to a different species at all would be somewhat unlikely (chemistry, in the literal sense, actually has a lot to do with attraction).

Meaning, with eg. relationships in mind and I was making the overall "design", there would be something for everyone. Not everyone for everyone.

Exactly. Garrus should only like a Renegade, but not too Renegade, because he's basically still a nice guy. Maybe you'd need to be in the 59-81% Renegade sector for that. And also you can't have red hair because it's not a natural color for turians.

So basically I like that garrus is garrus no matter what Shep I play. Not Garrus A to Shep B or something like that.

That's a fair point, but what you're really saying is that you want Garrus to be Garrus up to a point regardless of who you play.

[lil_lene]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

To 78stone, I can dig your opinion, but I think a lot of people's issue is that Tali DOES express interest in femshep in ME2 even if you don't prompt it. So it's not like we're demanding she be changed, we're more like confused at the conflicting writing/characterization.

Hey I never play as FemShep so how does she show interest?

[Rex Fallout]

This was one thing that I actually loved about Mass Effect 3. Tali is not bi. Everything she says to FemShep in Mass Effect 2 is just in relation to close friendship. As she even states that her mother and that friend of the family linked suit environments (I forget her name right now) There was no romantic relationship between those two. No reason to think that it MUST be romantic.

Tali is not bi. Neither is Garrus. Just accept it.

[Vapaa]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Why would my Femshep want to romance Tali? O.o
Liara/traynor are fun enough (I want that threesome)

Liara/Traynor are fun enough.....but I have something like 8 Femsheps, and I want each of my Shepard to have a different LI :innocent:

lil_lene wrote...

Hey I never play as FemShep so how does she show interest?

More or less he same way she show interest to Maleshep....and also the suggestive LotSB files

Modifié par Vapaä, 22 avril 2012 - 03:39 .

[alec1898]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Does everyone need to be bisexual? Seriously?

THIS.

Why is everyone in my crew bisexual? XD

[78stonewobble]

lillitheris wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...

Well IMHO a game like this should be somewhat representative of society. For realism and atleast for me a certain immersion factor.

Realistically, in 150 years, we're going to have a lot more gay and bisexual people out in the open. Realistically, being attracted to a different species at all would be somewhat unlikely (chemistry, in the literal sense, actually has a lot to do with attraction).

Meaning, with eg. relationships in mind and I was making the overall "design", there would be something for everyone. Not everyone for everyone.

Exactly. Garrus should only like a Renegade, but not too Renegade, because he's basically still a nice guy. Maybe you'd need to be in the 59-81% Renegade sector for that. And also you can't have red hair because it's not a natural color for turians.

So basically I like that garrus is garrus no matter what Shep I play. Not Garrus A to Shep B or something like that.

That's a fair point, but what you're really saying is that you want Garrus to be Garrus up to a point regardless of who you play.

Haha in retrospect Garrus WASN'T a good example since over the games you do kinda influence him to be either paragon or renegade. In any case I have absolutely no idea how Turians view sexuality and genders. So theoretically they can make anything up.

What I want is the damn story writer to come up with good characters that have a certain consistency to them. Sure they can come out or drop dead like Thane but it should be as part of the characters story not sorta tacked on.

Regarding our real life future. Well I don't care who's out in the open just that noone feeels like they don't belong in the open.

EDIT and PS.: I would have liked that paragon, renegade AND other choices also played a part in who you could romance.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 22 avril 2012 - 04:01 .

[deciett]

Lyrandori wrote...

Nah, I wouldn't see Tali with another female. She wants a family of her own I'm pretty sure, and adoption doesn't look like to be in her mind. It's just the way the character has been written anyway, she's heterosexual and that's fine. She can be a very good friend to a FemShep and that's also fine, it's more than fine it's needed, Shepard in ME3 really does need all the morale support he/she can get.

>Romance option with Male Shephard (genetically incompatible)
>Will fall in love with Garrus if not romanced (also genetically incompatible)
>Doesn't want to adopt.

Umm. Wut?

[78stonewobble]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

To 78stone, I can dig your opinion, but I think a lot of people's issue is that Tali DOES express interest in femshep in ME2 even if you don't prompt it. So it's not like we're demanding she be changed, we're more like confused at the conflicting writing/characterization.

Well on that point it's more of a majority thing.

If most people see Tali or eg. Kaidan as bi, gay or straight and it's not established firmly. They should just go with the majority.

No reason to believe my interpretation of a character is any more correct than anyone elses.

To me however a certain consistency in the characters is nice (not all important as in I'd boycot a game due to it) and I would prefer that the developer doesn't leave players with "wtf. ?" moments.

[Biotic_Warlock]

deciett wrote...

Lyrandori wrote...

Nah, I wouldn't see Tali with another female. She wants a family of her own I'm pretty sure, and adoption doesn't look like to be in her mind. It's just the way the character has been written anyway, she's heterosexual and that's fine. She can be a very good friend to a FemShep and that's also fine, it's more than fine it's needed, Shepard in ME3 really does need all the morale support he/she can get.

>Romance option with Male Shephard (genetically incompatible)
>Will fall in love with Garrus if not romanced (also genetically incompatible)
>Doesn't want to adopt.

Umm. Wut?

Surely having kids isn't the *most* important thing?

[ahandsomeshark]

lil_lene wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

To 78stone, I can dig your opinion, but I think a lot of people's issue is that Tali DOES express interest in femshep in ME2 even if you don't prompt it. So it's not like we're demanding she be changed, we're more like confused at the conflicting writing/characterization.

Hey I never play as FemShep so how does she show interest?

you have the same conversation about connecting suits (with her getting all flustered and embarassed) and her shadow broker dossier still has her downloading videos about human courtship and mating and the nerve stim pro stuff.

[deciett]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

deciett wrote...

Lyrandori wrote...

Nah, I wouldn't see Tali with another female. She wants a family of her own I'm pretty sure, and adoption doesn't look like to be in her mind. It's just the way the character has been written anyway, she's heterosexual and that's fine. She can be a very good friend to a FemShep and that's also fine, it's more than fine it's needed, Shepard in ME3 really does need all the morale support he/she can get.

>Romance option with Male Shephard (genetically incompatible)
>Will fall in love with Garrus if not romanced (also genetically incompatible)
>Doesn't want to adopt.

Umm. Wut?

Surely having kids isn't the *most* important thing?

Bold was emphasis. If she "wanted a family" and "didn't want to adopt", why is she decidedly xenophillic?

[Biotic_Warlock]

deciett wrote...

Bold was emphasis. If she "wanted a family" and "didn't want to adopt", why is she decidedly xenophillic?

Ah i see now

Maybe just marrying and joining the other family with no kids. One never knows what Tali is thinking

[4stringwizard]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

lil_lene wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

To 78stone, I can dig your opinion, but I think a lot of people's issue is that Tali DOES express interest in femshep in ME2 even if you don't prompt it. So it's not like we're demanding she be changed, we're more like confused at the conflicting writing/characterization.

Hey I never play as FemShep so how does she show interest?

you have the same conversation about connecting suits (with her getting all flustered and embarassed) and her shadow broker dossier still has her downloading videos about human courtship and mating and the nerve stim pro stuff.

If you think the suit conversation equals a romantic interest, then you're reading way too much into the scene and didn't pay enough attention to the rest of the game.  During her loyalty mission, Admiral Raan explains how she linked suits with Tali's mother to witness Tali's birth.  The suit linking doesn't have to mean infatutation, it can be done with close friends too.  Sort of like Liara's mindmeld in ME3.  As far as the Shadow Broker dossier, again, you're reading too much into it.  They weren't going to change it between a femshep and maleshep.  And in my opinion, "nerve stim pro" bit was definitely written with a male shepard romance in mind.  If Shepard's a female, it becomes her showing interest an interest in humans in general (perhaps from being around them so much).

Honestly I don't see what the big deal is anyway.  Tali's straight and was intended to be that way.  OMG!  The travesty!!!!!  Get over it, people.

[Noelemahc]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

It definitely annoys me that she expresses interest to femshep in ME2 and nothing comes of it. I thought it was setting up a romance option for ME3.

That's because she WAS planned as a same-sex romance. There's enough leftover stuff in the scripts AND VOICE-OVERS in ME2 and, more fun, Lair of the Shadow Broker, to indicate that at whichever point Thane, Jack, Miranda and Tali were bi. (Plus, it was totally officially announced while ME2 was in development that Tali, Thane and Garrus WILL be bi).

Haven't checked for Thane, but for the girls, the dialogue is the same as for the guys until you reach the part where you could have romantic dialogue options -- then Jack gets locked into her dialogue loop which you get as a guy if you one-night-standed her; Tali gets into the loop you get if you friendzoned her as a guy, and same for Miranda. Very crudely cut in Tali's case, which is why most people notice her from the get-go.

For clarification - in LotSB, there are full voiceovers for the aforementioned people for the "talking to Liara about your LI" dialogue scene when she visits the Normandy. I can only imagine how heartfelt Jack's romance scene would have sounded with Jen Hale's VO judging by how she says "Jack is very dear to me" =)

[leeboi2]

Y'know, there might be an explanation for that! Maybe...Just maybe! She isn't sexually attracted to women?...

[Kaelef]

leeboi2 wrote...

Y'know, there might be an explanation for that! Maybe...Just maybe! She isn't sexually attracted to women?...

BLASPHEMY!



Anyway, I think Tali and Legion should hook up.  Talk about ironic story twists!  And just imagine the adorable little geth baby with its little purple helmet!!!!!1

[4stringwizard]

Kaelef wrote...

leeboi2 wrote...

Y'know, there might be an explanation for that! Maybe...Just maybe! She isn't sexually attracted to women?...

BLASPHEMY!



Anyway, I think Tali and Legion should hook up.  Talk about ironic story twists!  And just imagine the adorable little geth baby with its little purple helmet!!!!!1

A true "synthesis" ending.  :happy: