1717 réponses à ce sujet

[born2beagator]

Well the one thing this thread did accomplish for me, it let me know when to turn my mic off when I see these names in the lobby. I will play the game with you, but I won't talk.

Homosexuality flies in the face of everything I believe. However, its your choice, no matter how misguided I think you are, and I will not use slurs.

[born2beagator]

maelstrome wrote...

I've yet to hear any such slurs myself and I've played more than a few games. That being said, this type of thread kinda pisses me off. It reeks of a shallow attempt to make something into a political or social statement and rub it in everyone else's faces in the vein of Shannon Faulkner. If you don't want to be identified as gay, or a gamer, or as a race, or a geek, then the first step is to not identify yourself as such.

I would agree.  This really just seems like an attempt to get us "close-minded" folk who believe homosexuality is unnatural mad.

[born2beagator]

xyzmkrysvr wrote...

maelstrome wrote...

mangrilla wrote...
First, to the OP - Consider me a hetero ally and feel free to add me to your list. I'm on 360, handle is Mangrilla. I don't use a mic.
Maelstrome: I've certainly heard multiple people shout out "****got," both to players and the computer. Whether an LGBT person identifies themselves doesn't really impact that at all. I certainly doubt any players go online and immediately say "I'm going to be a vanguard, oh, and by the way, I'm gay." Your response is ridiculous. If the n-word were particularly prevalent in MP, and an African American started a thread looking for people who will play the game and not shout racial slurs, would that ****** you off too? Would you tell him, "Look, you wouldn't have the problem of hearing people say the n-word if you just didn't identify yourself as black." Hopefully not, because that's just an insane response.
It's not a political statement to just desire a comfortable place to enjoy yourself. It's not a social statement to look for like-minded gamers. If this thread pisses you off, it's because you have issues, not the OP.

I was talking about internal identification, not external. And yes, this is a social statement; there are more appropriate places and ways to discuss this than to make a pride parade thread in a game forum. If the OP didn't want it to be about homosexuality and just wanted to invite a player list that doesn't use slurs or harsh language then I doubt anyone would care. However, he has used intentionally provactive words and language which singles out a specific cause or group.
Even if that was not the intent of the OP, that is what it has come across as, and in communication that is important.
Oh and before anyone writes me off as a basher or hater, I have homosexual friends, and was a part of the gay/straight alliance in highschool. I don't care about that. What does get under my skin is when it is worn on the sleeve and made an issue of when and where not appropriate.
Like here.
In any event I have expressed my opinion on the topic and I doubt that I will have much more to add or detract, depending on your viewpoint. I welcome any comentary [heck I posted this in a publically accessible forum!], but I can't promise that I will return and respond in kind.

Maelstrome, I’d suggest you not let silly little things like threads on a gaming forum on the Internet “get under your skin.”

Interestingly enough, the moderators *might* end up locking this thread because of off-topic rants like yours but the BSN is very clear in that it allows me to create threads “seeking teammates” if I want.

So, if anything, posts like *yours* are considered to be inappropriate, NOT threads like mine.

One can only hope
I'm now going to leave this thread with one last comment.  Homosexuality is an affront to many people in this world, gays are NOT the only open minded people.  The OP had to know that a thread title like this would be akin to hitting a hornet's nest.  

Modifié par born2beagator, 14 avril 2012 - 06:19 .

[alek2702]

born2beagator wrote...
I would agree.  This really just seems like an attempt to get us "close-minded" folk who believe homosexuality is unnatural mad.

You're just too funny...

[SonsofNorthWind]

born2beagator wrote...

One can only hope
I'm now going to leave this thread with one last comment.  Homosexuality is an affront to many people in this world, gays are NOT the only open minded people.  The OP had to know that a thread title like this would be akin to hitting a hornet's nest.  

Affront means a deliberate insult.  Not sure what the word for sticking your nose into other people's business and then choosing to take offense at it is.   Pretty sure it's not "open minded."

Modifié par SonsofNorthWind, 14 avril 2012 - 06:55 .

[andysdead]

<--- straight but not narrow. :-)

[mangrilla]

maelstrome wrote...
I was talking about internal identification, not external.

I'm not sure I understand you, so let me get this straight.  So you're saying LGBT people would stop having problems with people using slurs against them if they simply stopped considering themselves LGBT?  That's even more nonsensical.

maelstrome wrote...
And yes, this is a social statement; there are more appropriate places and ways to discuss this than to make a pride parade thread in a game forum.

That is simply a moronic comparison to say that this thread, where the OP is just searching for tolerant players, is a gay pride parade.  Again, evidence of your own issues. 

maelstrome wrote...
If the OP didn't want it to be about homosexuality and just wanted to invite a player list that doesn't use slurs or harsh language then I doubt anyone would care. However, he has used intentionally provactive words and language which singles out a specific cause or group.  Even if that was not the intent of the OP, that is what it has come across as, and in communication that is important. 

 
Honestly, I understand that forum users are typically persnickity to a certain point, but the fact that so many people on here want to nitpick "You shouldn't have titled it this way, you should have done it that way, blah blah blah," is simply more evidence of a different standard being applied to the LGBT community that the OP doesn't want to deal with.  No one is forcing you to be a part of the thread, but you have to find SOMETHING to criticize.  Can you explain why?

maelstrome wrote...
Oh and before anyone writes me off as a basher or hater, I have homosexual friends, and was a part of the gay/straight alliance in highschool. I don't care about that.

"I'm not a homophobe, I have gay friends!" is the new, "I'm not a racist, I know black people!"

maelstrome wrote...
What does get under my skin is when it is worn on the sleeve and made an issue of when and where not appropriate.

A) Please explain to me how finding groups of people to play Mass Effect with on a Mass Effect forum is inappropriate.
B)The people who make this an issue are the people who ignorantly toss out anti-LGBT slurs with abandon in multiplayer.  If it weren't for idiots like that, this thread wouldn't be necessary.
C) Additionally, if it weren't for the many people who get bent out of shape by someone looking to play with tolerant players, the need for this thread wouldn't be so obvious.  But there are a whole slew of other threads mocking this one.  Again, if it weren't for the fact that the gaming community at large is so inconsiderate/blind to views outside the typical gamers' experience (that being the 18-35 white, heterosexual male experience), this thread wouldn't be necessary.  As another poster has pointed out, obviously the people who have taken the OP up on being a part of his list shows that there are folks who find this thread necessary.  Why do you feel the need to hang around and nitpick if it offends you so much?

[andysdead]

food for thought: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8772014

SCIENCE!

[mangrilla]

born2beagator wrote...
The OP had to know that a thread title like this would be akin to hitting a hornet's nest.  

And here is why a thread like this is necessary: Apparently people being themselves (LGBT people), looking to enjoy a gaming experience without being mocked simply for who they are, is akin to hitting a hornet's nest.  Sad, b2b, really sad.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Wait, how do random strangers you play video games with know your sexual orientation? I am confused.

[Lyrebon]

Relevance?

Nobody questions your sexuality in a game and the mere fact that you feel the need to let everyone know you're gay is attention whoring. Frankly, I don't give a f*** what sexual orientation you are, aslong as you can shoot straight. As a heterosexual male I don't have a problem with homosexuals, but I fume at those that make a big deal out of being different from conventional forms.

Anyone want to form a heterosexual only group? No gays allowed. Oh wait... there's the double standard. How about a Caucasian only group? People-that-wear-odd-coloured-luminous-shoelaces?

You're not earning yourself any credits by being obnoxiously forthcoming. You really want to alienate people like that?

Modifié par Lyrebon, 14 avril 2012 - 07:11 .

[andysdead]

Lyrebon wrote...

Relevance?

Nobody questions your sexuality in a game and the mere fact that you feel the need to let everyone know you're gay is attention whoring. As a heterosexual male I don't have a problem with homosexuals, but I fume at those that make a big deal out of being different from conventional forms.

Anyone want to form a heterosexual only group? No gays allowed. Oh wait... there's the double standard. How about a Caucasian only group? People-that-wear-odd-coloured-luminous-shoelaces?

You're not earning yourself any credits by being obnoxiously forthcoming. You really want to alienate people like that?

You obviously didn't read the OP.

He isn't looking for a "gay-only" group. He's looking to join groups that aren't going to insult him. Judging by the obiquitous nature of gay (and also racial) slurs in online games, I believe his is well within his rights to attempt to find a group that does not engage in such activities.

[mangrilla]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Wait, how do random strangers you play video games with know your sexual orientation? I am confused.

It's not random players KNOWING the orientation, it's them tossing out slurs that make a person of that orientation uncomfortable.

Imagine if instead of saying "That's gay" or calling others ****gots, players used the n-word constantly.  "THAT N-WORD BANSHEE JUST KILLED ME!"  "That vanguard n-word just keeps getting his stupid n-word ass killed!"

Random players would have no idea if they were playing with a black person or not, but that black person would still have every right to feel pretty uncomfortable about it.  This isn't about "wearing it on your sleeve" or whatever.  It's about people being able to to just play a game and have fun without hearing people slur who you are constantly.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

mangrilla wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Wait, how do random strangers you play video games with know your sexual orientation? I am confused.

It's not random players KNOWING the orientation, it's them tossing out slurs that make a person of that orientation uncomfortable.

Imagine if instead of saying "That's gay" or calling others ****gots, players used the n-word constantly.  "THAT N-WORD BANSHEE JUST KILLED ME!"  "That vanguard n-word just keeps getting his stupid n-word ass killed!"

Random players would have no idea if they were playing with a black person or not, but that black person would still have every right to feel pretty uncomfortable about it.  This isn't about "wearing it on your sleeve" or whatever.  It's about people being able to to just play a game and have fun without hearing people slur who you are constantly.

I haven't heard people using slurs in any of my multiplayer matches. I don't know, maybe I've just gotten lucky.

[ericjdev]

BigDaddyE47.
I'm hetero, member of PFLAG, support equality for all my gay brothers and sisters, put me on the list.
Xbox 360 with kinect, my wife doesn't let me put the mike on when she's home though, it freaks her out for some reason.

Modifié par ericjdev, 14 avril 2012 - 07:17 .

[mangrilla]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

I haven't heard people using slurs in any of my multiplayer matches. I don't know, maybe I've just gotten lucky.

Perhaps.  It's certainly a fixture of certain online games (and was much more prevalent a while ago), but I've heard my fair share of users get called ****s because they didn't get back to the extraction point, or for various other ME3 faux pas.

Modifié par mangrilla, 14 avril 2012 - 07:19 .

[Lyrebon]

andysdead wrote...

Lyrebon wrote...

Relevance?

Nobody questions your sexuality in a game and the mere fact that you feel the need to let everyone know you're gay is attention whoring. As a heterosexual male I don't have a problem with homosexuals, but I fume at those that make a big deal out of being different from conventional forms.

Anyone want to form a heterosexual only group? No gays allowed. Oh wait... there's the double standard. How about a Caucasian only group? People-that-wear-odd-coloured-luminous-shoelaces?

You're not earning yourself any credits by being obnoxiously forthcoming. You really want to alienate people like that?

You obviously didn't read the OP.

He isn't looking for a "gay-only" group. He's looking to join groups that aren't going to insult him. Judging by the obiquitous nature of gay (and also racial) slurs in online games, I believe his is well within his rights to attempt to find a group that does not engage in such activities.

Sorry OP, missing the steps today; I read the entire thing, don't know how I got from what you said to my reply 

I still stand by what I said initially: how are people to determine your sexual orientation online? Unless your profile says "male" and your character is in bright pink and yellow armour. And if slurs bother you over the headset, mute the player or just ignore it. I get a lot of jip for being English at times and think nothing of it. Heard it all before.

You'll only bait the flaming idiots who make a life effort to decomforting people if you retaliate.

Speaking of flaming idiots, hello, my name is Lyrebon and I'll be misinterpreting your posts for today; post wisely.

Modifié par Lyrebon, 14 avril 2012 - 07:22 .

[Lyrebon]

Harsh reality of it is there will always be people who can't understand or accept diversity, are ignorant and obnoxious. You've just got to get on with it and not let it bother you. Easier said than done, I know, but you'll always have someone ridiculing you for who you are every where you go. People online and especially in games can do you no harm other than throw nasty words at you. Words don't mean a thing unless you give them relevance.

[andysdead]

In the words of Micheal Bolton from Office Space: "Why should I change [my name], he's the one who sucks!"

[mangrilla]

Lyrebon wrote...
And if slurs bother you over the headset, mute the player or just ignore it.

Or find like-minded players, which he's done and has every right to do.  OP isn't asking the community at large to stop using homophobic slurs.  He's just looking for people to play with who won't use them so he can enjoy the ME3 experience to the fullest.  Why would anyone have a problem with that?  I honestly don't understand why people would say, "Put up with the slurs," when he has the option to come here and do what he did.  He's not hurting you or changing your experience of the game in the slightest bit.  Just let OP find a way to enjoy the experience as much as everyone else.

Lyrebon wrote...
I get a lot of jip for being English at times and think nothing of it. Heard it all before.

I'm assuming you either live in the UK or in another English-speaking country, meaning you're still in the majority.  I'm a white guy and it would honestly amuse me to be called a ******, but that's because people like me have never been the object of persecution/oppression like some others have.  Long story short: The comparison between being an Englishman and getting ribbed for it online and being LGBT and getting harrassed EVERYwhere is kind of off the mark.
ADDENDUM: None of the above, though, should be taken as me saying that you don't have a right to start a thread looking for UK-Only players.  That's obviously a perfectly legitimate path as well.

Modifié par mangrilla, 14 avril 2012 - 08:13 .

[xyzmkrysvr]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...
I haven't heard people using slurs in any of my multiplayer matches. I don't know, maybe I've just gotten lucky.

Well I’m obviously not as lucky as you are.
I’ve been called the F word five times now, I’ve heard a guy toss out the C word and I had to quit a match after hearing people say the N word while telling horrific racial jokes about lynching.
I created this thread because I got sick of taking a chance with randoms. Why should I bother when I can play a game with people I’m guaranteed to get along with (i.e. anyone who agrees with the goal of this thread (namely, to be respectful to one another and have fun))

Lyrebon wrote...
Harsh reality of it is there will always be people who can't understand or accept diversity, are ignorant and obnoxious. You've just got to get on with it and not let it bother you. Easier said than done, I know, but you'll always have someone ridiculing you for who you are every where you go. People online and especially in games can do you no harm other than throw nasty words at you. Words don't mean a thing unless you give them relevance.

You think I don’t already know that, Lyrebon? I’m not naïve. But if I choose to try and only play Mass Effect multiplayer with open-minded and like-minded individuals that’s MY prerogative.
Obviously there are others who feel the same way, because almost *70* people have added their names to the list.

[Goaliebot]

Here's a tale of why threads like this are needed:

Other day I played a round and afterwards 1 player left the group but the other 2 stayed and re-readied for another round.
I too was about to hit ready when a replacement 4th joined the lobby. This new player had a good N7 and charge rating, but a gamer tag that appears do to identify him/her as gay.
Within a few seconds, both other players unreadied.
One immediately left, and Live quickly replaced the empty spot with someone else - who quickly left.
Then the host left. Three players who were ready to play seem to have left soley to avoid playing with "teh gay".
I was determined not to let bigotry screw over this gay gamer but sadly the host leaving migrated me into an empty new lobby.

[Billylemmon]

Lyrebon wrote...

Harsh reality of it is there will always be people who can't understand or accept diversity, are ignorant and obnoxious. You've just got to get on with it and not let it bother you. Easier said than done, I know, but you'll always have someone ridiculing you for who you are every where you go. People online and especially in games can do you no harm other than throw nasty words at you. Words don't mean a thing unless you give them relevance.

I can't believe you actually have the guts to write this. Personally, I find it really offensive. Like we don't already know how some people react to gays and lesbians? Gee, thanks for writing this, in the 21 years I've been alive, I hadn't thought of this.

Moron.

[Ahms]

manicmad wrote...

Ahms wrote...
I don't care if people do or don't do this, but don't throw it in our faces and pretend like it's a problem we should all care about. I'm only here to show that the idea itself is inherently unnecessary and why, and I already did that. If you'd like to discuss that some more, I'd be happy to oblige. Just don't make terrible arguments and politic your way into making me look like some bad guy simply because I took the risk of looking like "that guy" by arguing against this idea.

Ahms, I am going to ask that you please stop clogging up this thread and derailing it off of the threads main purpose, if you would like to disscuss your ideals maybe message someone who would be willing. Though I agree that villifying someone just because they hold an ideal,albiet an unpopular one, is nasty and unbecoming, I would like to request everyone here please cease doing that. For the record I would be willing to disscuss this further with you.

For the sake of keeping this thread on track and not letting it devolve into something political where emotions run high and insults may be flung, I'll stop arguing the subject.

xyzmkrysvr wrote...

Ahms wrote...

Zerox Z21 wrote...

Ahms wrote...

Roninraver wrote...

Ahms wrote...
Please
don't give me the victimization schpiel. Shrug it off and ignore it.
Ignorance is everywhere. You can't go around feeling righteously
indignant at anything and everything that upsets your sensibilities.
Why? Because, ultimately, in the end it doesn't matter. What some bigot
rages over the mic does not affect your personal, financial, or social
and romantic life in any way, shape or form, whatsoever.
There's a mute option to squelch these types of people and maintain your emotional equilibrium. Make liberal use of it.

Or,
they can form a group/community of friendly and like-minded people, and
not have to worry about it ever occurring to begin with.
Which they were peacefully and maturely trying to do, before you and others like you told them to "suck it up" and ignore it.
They
are ignoring it, genius.  By gaming with those who they don't have to
worry about hearing that kind of junk from, they are insulating
themselves from it and leaving the rest of the world to be as bigoted
and idiotic as it wants to be.
Again, before you and those like you displayed a little righteous indignation of your own.
Don't like the thread/the concept behind the thread?  Door is over there.  Take your own advice and ignore it.

This post is all sorts of LOL. Making a THREAD ON THE INTERNET is not ignoring it.
Congratulations. You win the prize.
I
don't know if I should continue to try and make you see reason or not.
I'll reiterate: It's not a legitimately problematic, negatively
life-altering phenomenon that should warrant serious concern. The day
that it becomes one, I'll support this 100%. Until then, no dice.

You
made a point of seeking out this thread just to criticise everyone in
it. You can't do that then yell at us for 'not ignoring things by making
a thread'. The fact that people like you saw this thread title and made
a point of jumping
in surely says something about why people
would make a thread like this. I think it's a nice idea. Our sexual
orientation is just one of a number of things that groups of people
might have in common, thus giving them common ground to form a community
of sorts, because there are so many nasties out there.
You can be
critical all you want, and say 'oh it's harmless' but you're not in that
position yourself. Muting people constantly gets irritating, and
besides which you face enough prejudice as is without having to face it
in gaming
multiplayer. By itself it's not much, but it's a part of
many sources of hate which eventually can get you down. You start
worrying about going outdoors because of what you fear you might expect
from some of the populace. So have the courtesy and decency to grant us
some damn reprieve from all that by meeting with like-minded people
without you coming in here and trying to find something to criticise.
You're not being pleasant or having a logical discussion, you're being
rather rude. You can't act like that and try to justify yourself as
being some sort of voice of reason. Anyway...
Xbox: Zerox Z21
No mic though. Love hearing talkers though.

Your argument is invalid.
The
idea of "the gay ME3 multiplayer community" makes no sense relative to
"the ME3 multiplayer community." The only thing that makes sense is "the
gay community." Also, "the gay online gaming community" to include the
sphere of all games is redundant and unncessary. Here's another one,
"the verbally abused online gamers community." We can keep progressing
to absurdity, but I'm sure you get the idea. I hope.

Ahms,
just because YOU do not agree with Zerox Z21 and Roninraver does NOT
make their argument “invalid”. You are not some objective debate god who
gets to pass judgment on the validity of everything you come across on
the Internet. Kindly get off your high horse and, like maniacmad said,
stop clogging up this thread with your off-topic rants.

You may
not understand or agree with my reasoning, but you ought to at least
respect my right to seek open-minded individuals on social networking
forum. CLEARLY I’m not the only one interested in finding a like-minded
group of gamers to play with, so there’s obviously demand for a thread
such as this. Nothing you say will change that, so you’re fighting a
losing battle in continuing to argue with us. Now, why don’t you go make
a ham & cheese sandwich or do something a little more productive
with your life?

BattlemastaWrex wrote...
I'm not gay,
but I have family and friends who are and the homophobia really gets on
my nerves. Feel free to friend me, but say that you're from BSN. My XBL
GT is: NinthTruKiilla

BattlemastaWrex, I’m glad to hear
that you’re bothered by homophobia as well. Too many people are willing
to ignore it or pretend as though it isn’t a problem. Homophobia is a
HUGE problem and it contributes to the grossly high suicide rate of LGBT
youth.
Anyway, I’ll get off my soap box and add your name to the list!  

Like I said earlier, I already DO respect your RIGHT to seek "open-minded" (whatever that's supposed to mean... I'm going to assume it just means "accepting and indifferent") players. What I don't respect is treating the unfortunate circumstance of dealing with a few immature bigots on the internet (surprise surprise, there's plenty of those on the internet, FYI. You just have to - yeah, this again - ignore and avoid them.) as a bigger deal than it actually is.

You want to play with people who are cool and enjoyable to play with, and who aren't homophobic bigots throwing slurs around ruining your gaming experience, I get that. So just create a thread looking for matchmaking. Making a point of it being a gay-friendly matchmaking is just attention whoring, imo. My whole point is that this is just a gaming thing, and you're making it out to be a sexuality thing.

Modifié par Ahms, 14 avril 2012 - 10:28 .