205 réponses à ce sujet

[Militarized]

SandTrout wrote...

Militarized wrote...

*edit* oh I see nevermind.

I always kind of took it to mean more like.. the Citadel was the seat of Government, they took that out first then destroy communications that are attached to the relay, that's how they cut the system off from each other. Not actually shutting the relay down.. and with no Government they are left to fend forthemselves for a bit before they know whats happening.. allowing the Reapers to isolate them system by system.

So.. for once, this one doesn't hold up I think.

Nope, Vigil explicitly states that the Reapers used the Citadel to disable the Mass Relays.

I'll look hold on. 

[Gibb_Shepard]

Nevermind that. Why didn't the god child disable the Mass Relays?

[111987]

Maybe the Reapers just wanted to end it all in one fell swoop, then go back to their harvesting? After all, one large, potentially costly battle sure beats centuries of guerrilla warfare right?

[Meltemph]

Umbrellamage wrote...

Militarized wrote...

Wait, your sentences read a little jumbled what exactly is your plot hole?

Basically that part of sovereign's plan was to shut down the mass relays via the citadel.

Reapers get the citadel, move it to earth, and don't think to shut down the relays.

Best I can come up with was that when they moved it to earth they just didn't care any more, they felt they had won, and had no idea about the crucible.

Well if you are not taking everything at face value, the fact of the matter is TIM had every intention of goign to the citadel, it is not out of the question that he had a hand in what transpired.  While TIM was indoctrinated, it was clear they didnt have full control over him, which is why they attacked the Cerberus facility.

Modifié par Meltemph, 14 mars 2012 - 08:27 .

[GBGriffin]

111987 wrote...

Maybe the Reapers just wanted to end it all in one fell swoop, then go back to their harvesting? After all, one large, potentially costly battle sure beats centuries of guerrilla warfare right?

I would think that'd be a mistake, seeing as how Reapers have actually died up ntil this point.

You'd think a race as "calculating" as they are wouldn't risk a big fleet warping in and messing things up.


The more I think of this, the more it bothers me. The whole "space magic" thing drove me nuts to begin with, but the fact they didn't shut down the relays? That's just....poor planning for conquering the galanxy? o_O

[count_4]

Well, nobody knows what happened to the Protheans reaching the Citadel. They may have done more to it than just reprogramming the Keepers to ignore the reaper signal.

[dkear1]

GBGriffin wrote...

111987 wrote...

Maybe the Reapers just wanted to end it all in one fell swoop, then go back to their harvesting? After all, one large, potentially costly battle sure beats centuries of guerrilla warfare right?

I would think that'd be a mistake, seeing as how Reapers have actually died up ntil this point.

You'd think a race as "calculating" as they are wouldn't risk a big fleet warping in and messing things up.


The more I think of this, the more it bothers me. The whole "space magic" thing drove me nuts to begin with, but the fact they didn't shut down the relays? That's just....poor planning for conquering the galanxy? o_O

Exactly.  This was what the reapers did to the protheans and why they never really stood a chance.  Javik talks about this.

[Militarized]

SandTrout wrote...

Militarized wrote...

*edit* oh I see nevermind.

I always kind of took it to mean more like.. the Citadel was the seat of Government, they took that out first then destroy communications that are attached to the relay, that's how they cut the system off from each other. Not actually shutting the relay down.. and with no Government they are left to fend forthemselves for a bit before they know whats happening.. allowing the Reapers to isolate them system by system.

So.. for once, this one doesn't hold up I think.

Nope, Vigil explicitly states that the Reapers used the Citadel to disable the Mass Relays.

I dunno... he doesn't actually say to disable them, he just says to take control of them. You could argue that it's just the central hub. He DOES explicitly state what I said though, that their leaders were killed and their fleet was decimated before they even realized they were under attack, communication and trade were cut when (like in ME3) entire systems go dark. 

I don't think this one holds up guys, sorry. 

[balchagi]

This thought came to me while I was playing the game as well. Why didn't they take the Citadel first, make it so they control the entire relay network and then destroy each sector with overwhelming force. Instead the Reapers divided their forces, didn't do squat about messing with their enemies supply lines, logistics and communications and let Shephard run around willy nilly throughout the galaxy uniting everyone.

Seemed like a horrible strategy, but I rationalized it away by thinking, if they did that, there would be no game.

[Madecologist]

Jake71887 wrote...

merylisk wrote...

But didn't the Protheans shut down that protocol? Hence why Sovereign couldn't just pop in and do that in the first place? Just cause the Reapers can move it doesn't mean they fixed that, too.

They shut down the keeper's ability to receive the signal, Sovereign(And I imagine other reapers) could take control manually.

Indeed, and if they can move the Citadel, I think they can finally take control of it manually.

Basically as long as they didn't have their hands on the Citadel, they couldn't remotely access it. However once they are able to move it around the Relay Network... you would think they can.

You know what makes this plothole worst. Considering the Crucible does use the Citadel as a connection to the Relay Network... means they still remembered its original and true function....

Added: As for the veracity if it does shut down the Mass Relays or not... someone has to play ME1 or get a Youtube video of all of Vigil's conversation to make sure.

Modifié par Madecologist, 14 mars 2012 - 08:33 .

[LucidStrike]

Plot hole maybe, but I'm not actually concerned about it. ALl I'm concerned about is a proper ending.

[Jake71887]

count_4 wrote...

Well, nobody knows what happened to the Protheans reaching the Citadel. They may have done more to it than just reprogramming the Keepers to ignore the reaper signal.

They went there after doing research to affect specifically that, and as Vigil said it was unlikely they found any food on the citadel. As starvation set in, I don't see how they could have possibly worked on ANOTHER code that affects not the keepers, but the citadel as a whole.

[SandTrout]

count_4 wrote...

Well, nobody knows what happened to the Protheans reaching the Citadel. They may have done more to it than just reprogramming the Keepers to ignore the reaper signal.

Still a failure in the writing staff for leaving this one wide open. Acording to Vigil, they focused on the Keepers. He gives no clue to any other activities. Even if they truely did disable those parts of the Citadel, it's poor form to leave us wondering like this.

[LadyofRivendell]

I thought the Protheans disabled the Keepers from activating the signal or whatever to use the Citadel, hence why the end of ME1 had us racing to get there before Saren could enable Sovereign's access?

[111987]

GBGriffin wrote...

111987 wrote...

Maybe the Reapers just wanted to end it all in one fell swoop, then go back to their harvesting? After all, one large, potentially costly battle sure beats centuries of guerrilla warfare right?

I would think that'd be a mistake, seeing as how Reapers have actually died up ntil this point.

You'd think a race as "calculating" as they are wouldn't risk a big fleet warping in and messing things up.


The more I think of this, the more it bothers me. The whole "space magic" thing drove me nuts to begin with, but the fact they didn't shut down the relays? That's just....poor planning for conquering the galanxy? o_O

Yes, but the Reapers haven't been dying because of overwhelming firepower or anything. It's been hit and run, guerrilla tactics that have proven most effective (such as the Turian dreadnaughts flying right into the middle of the Reaper fleets and doing as much damage as possible, and the Asari hit and FTL tactics on Thessia). Whenever it's been a straight up fight, the Reapers have dominated. It might actually be more efficient to wipe out the entire galactic force at once.

[Militarized]

Javik states it was his Empires policy to fight a geurrila warfare fight though, fighting them through attrition. This plays to the Reapers advantage...which I outline in my thread that you can click in my signature.

[Cody211282]

The main plot to ME2 was really weak as well(it's a space opera they almost all are), but the character pieces and concepts in the game made it great. I was willing to overlook the rather bad main plot in this game but nooooooooooo,it just had to hit critical derpitude in the last mission to the point of brain aneurysm.

[ShadowLordXXX]

Well from what I understand the reapers don't exactly shut down the relays, they just make it impossible for anything other than a Reaper, or I would imagine, a ship with a reaper IFF to go through the relay. It's possible therefore that somehow the IFF the Normandy has has been duplicated in mass, or the reapers simply didn't worry about it since it was already out there.

The possibility that the reapers actually wanted you to throw everything at them isn't impoissible, but doesn't really seem like something they'd do. Every cycle before they've relied on cutting people off and then divide and conquer. However I suppose the fact they had to come from darkspace this time might've made a difference, it's possible that they don't have limitless power and can only remain active and in FTL for limited ammounts of time; which would mean to effectively reap everyone they'd need to let the bulk of their forces come to them, instead of allowing them to rely on guerilla style attacks.

But regardless, there's no real explanation that says any of this, it's all conjecture, but it's not impossible to explain.

Modifié par ShadowLordXXX, 14 mars 2012 - 08:40 .

[HKR148]

This is precisely the reason why they should've at least made some set of core lore elements before doing anything rather than just 'winging' as they went.

[Leonia]

Maybe the Citadel was never moved in the first place.

[Jake71887]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

I thought the Protheans disabled the Keepers from activating the signal or whatever to use the Citadel, hence why the end of ME1 had us racing to get there before Saren could enable Sovereign's access?

Reapers send a signal to keeper to unlockt he citadel as a relay
Reapers then take control of the mass relays through the citadel
Protheans disrupted the keeper's ability to receive the signal.
Reapers(Like sovereign tried to do), can stillt ake control of the Citadel manually. 

[Nu-Nu]

Reapers got Shepard to disable the mass relays! Soveriegn did say we use their (the reaper) technology and it will be civillisation's downfall. Citadel is reaper technology, crucible could be too, especially since that VI claims to be the cataylst. How does he know how the crucible works? So where does that put the indoctrination theory?

Reapers rebuild technology for next civillisation once they're done.

Modifié par Nu-Nu, 14 mars 2012 - 08:35 .

[ItsFreakinJesus]

This thought never crossed my mind. I was too caught up with "holy ****, they stole the ****ing Citadel! It's on now, bastiches!" to even consider how utterly wrong it was for that to happen.


Though as I write this post, it kind of makes sense for them to not shut off the Relays. The fleets of the entire galaxy were moving toward Earth. Shutting off the Relay network meant that the Reapers would have to waste time moving from system to system to wipe everything out. With the way things were in ME3, they could destroy the galactic defenses in one location so when they moved to cleanse the galaxy, there wouldn't be any annoyances arming resistance other than a few fighters and some ground forces.

They knew the galaxy amassed and were coming, so they allowed the fleets to do half of the Reapers job and come to them instead of the Reapers having to waste centuries seeking them out.

[SandTrout]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

I thought the Protheans disabled the Keepers from activating the signal or whatever to use the Citadel, hence why the end of ME1 had us racing to get there before Saren could enable Sovereign's access?

Correct. However, that doesn't matter because A) The Reapers had enough control to move the Citadel and They moved it to Earth, where the was the highest concentration of Reaper Vessles and lowest concentration of anyone else.

[Where my deeds have lead me]

I never took cut off communication as turn off relays I just thought they took out the government and scrambled the radio waves isolating each prothean garrison or fleet. Plus can't you just turn on a dormant relay like Relay 314 for instance I don't think the citadel turned that one on or the Rachni relay.