205 réponses à ce sujet

[Jake71887]

Where my deeds have lead me wrote...

I never took cut off communication as turn off relays I just thought they took out the government and scrambled the radio waves isolating each prothean garrison or fleet. Plus can't you just turn on a dormant relay like Relay 314 for instance I don't think the citadel turned that one on or the Rachni relay.

They said they shut the relays down, isolating each system from one another.. if it were simply "We didn't get an answer", wouldn't they have sent ships to investigate? If not the Protheans were really lazy. 

[Madecologist]

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Well from what I understand the reapers don't exactly shut down the relays, they just make it impossible for anything other than a Reaper, or I would imagine, a ship with a reaper IFF to go through the relay. It's possible therefore that somehow the IFF the Normandy has has been duplicated in mass, or the reapers simply didn't worry about it since it was already out there.

But it is an issue that none of this is explained, so it seems to some extent like the writers simply forgot about it.

Interesting theory, I remember that even normal Relays need a sort of activation signal (but it is mostly generic). So yeah perhaps they are not literally shut down (never thought they were) but instead the Relays now require an IFF to activate when the Reapers take control of the Citadel. Hindering intersteller travel in the galaxy during the 'reap'.

Obviously to those that don't have the right IFF... the Relays effectively stop working. So for all intensive purposes... are shut down for them.

Modifié par Madecologist, 14 mars 2012 - 08:38 .

[Militarized]

I dunno guys... I don't think it holds up. The Reapers could have actually been scared, honestly. IF... the plot is actually indoctrination the crucible is just a big energy blast that knocks out their shields, they'd just hurry it over Earth where their main fleet is stationed.

I still don't think they shut the relays down, they just cut systems off one by one.

How does Javik retreat to different worlds if the Relays are shut down or only Reapers can use them? Doesn't make sense... I think my idea holds the most water.

[Peete]

111987 wrote...



Yes, but the Reapers haven't been dying because of overwhelming firepower or anything. It's been hit and run, guerrilla tactics that have proven most effective (such as the Turian dreadnaughts flying right into the middle of the Reaper fleets and doing as much damage as possible, and the Asari hit and FTL tactics on Thessia). Whenever it's been a straight up fight, the Reapers have dominated. It might actually be more efficient to wipe out the entire galactic force at once.

The problem that I sort of have with this is that the game itself is mute on the issue. I agree with your reasoning, but it is pure speculation.

I'd call it a plot hole. Though maybe not a massive one, though.

[Jake71887]

Militarized wrote...

I dunno guys... I don't think it holds up. The Reapers could have actually been scared, honestly. IF... the plot is actually indoctrination the crucible is just a big energy blast that knocks out their shields, they'd just hurry it over Earth where their main fleet is stationed.

I still don't think they shut the relays down, they just cut systems off one by one.

How does Javik retreat to different worlds if the Relays are shut down or only Reapers can use them? Doesn't make sense... I think my idea holds the most water.

Even if they shut down only one relay at a time, why didn't they shut down Sol's? The most logical one.

[Peete]

Militarized wrote...

I dunno guys... I don't think it holds up. The Reapers could have actually been scared, honestly. IF... the plot is actually indoctrination the crucible is just a big energy blast that knocks out their shields, they'd just hurry it over Earth where their main fleet is stationed.

I still don't think they shut the relays down, they just cut systems off one by one.

How does Javik retreat to different worlds if the Relays are shut down or only Reapers can use them? Doesn't make sense... I think my idea holds the most water.

I agree with you. Sorry guys. 

[Arppis]

Maybe they were able to stop that from happening in the first game?

But yeah, writers forgot.

[Militarized]

Jake71887 wrote...

Militarized wrote...

I dunno guys... I don't think it holds up. The Reapers could have actually been scared, honestly. IF... the plot is actually indoctrination the crucible is just a big energy blast that knocks out their shields, they'd just hurry it over Earth where their main fleet is stationed.

I still don't think they shut the relays down, they just cut systems off one by one.

How does Javik retreat to different worlds if the Relays are shut down or only Reapers can use them? Doesn't make sense... I think my idea holds the most water.

Even if they shut down only one relay at a time, why didn't they shut down Sol's? The most logical one.

Well... one is the fact that their plan is already awry and now THEY'RE winging it. If they shut down the relay that's only one system, they would technically be as trapped there as the fleets are at the end of the game is now. They wouldn't be able to get reinforcements in at any decent time... I assume it takes a long time to powerdown/power up the Relays. 

[Madecologist]

Militarized wrote...

I dunno guys... I don't think it holds up. The Reapers could have actually been scared, honestly. IF... the plot is actually indoctrination the crucible is just a big energy blast that knocks out their shields, they'd just hurry it over Earth where their main fleet is stationed.

I still don't think they shut the relays down, they just cut systems off one by one.

How does Javik retreat to different worlds if the Relays are shut down or only Reapers can use them? Doesn't make sense... I think my idea holds the most water.

That is why it be nice to see what Vigil actually says and not run on memory only.

Also conventional FTL. It does take a long time to go between systems but remember the War lasted Centuries too. (Concerning Javik)

Modifié par Madecologist, 14 mars 2012 - 08:42 .

[SandTrout]

Militarized wrote...

I dunno guys... I don't think it holds up. The Reapers could have actually been scared, honestly. IF... the plot is actually indoctrination the crucible is just a big energy blast that knocks out their shields, they'd just hurry it over Earth where their main fleet is stationed.

I still don't think they shut the relays down, they just cut systems off one by one.

How does Javik retreat to different worlds if the Relays are shut down or only Reapers can use them? Doesn't make sense... I think my idea holds the most water.

The thing is, you're basing your objection to the being a plot hole based on a character that was writen by the same team potentially responsable for the plot hole. Also, I wasn't foolish enough to get the From Ashes DLC, so if anyone wants to explain the Javik deal more thoroughly, please do.

[111987]

I think the person whom mentioned the Reaper IFF is onto something. We know the Normandy was under Alliance control for 2 months. The Codex or the War Assets journal talked about how the Thanix cannons had been mass produced by the time of ME3. Taking the IFF would make sense too, and from their the Alliance could just provide all the other species with the IFF.

[Arios1570]

Jake71887 wrote...

merylisk wrote...

But didn't the Protheans shut down that protocol? Hence why Sovereign couldn't just pop in and do that in the first place? Just cause the Reapers can move it doesn't mean they fixed that, too.

They shut down the keeper's ability to receive the signal, Sovereign(And I imagine other reapers) could take control manually.

However, Sovereign had to have someone on the inside, Saren, to override the tampering from the Protheans.  Therefore, unless they got indoctrinated forces in there (I'd imagine anyone alive would have held that point to their dying breath), they couldn't actually control the Citidel in that way.

[Sc2mashimaro]

It was strongly implied in the first game that the Reapers used the Citadel to perform a divide and conquer sort of deal when they showed up to mess everything up. That and they used the data from the Citadel to figure our what leaders where to indoctrinate and where the pockets of resistance might be found.

I think it's a pretty good size plot hole that hardly anyone would care about if the ending wasn't what it is...

[Militarized]

Madecologist wrote...

Militarized wrote...

I dunno guys... I don't think it holds up. The Reapers could have actually been scared, honestly. IF... the plot is actually indoctrination the crucible is just a big energy blast that knocks out their shields, they'd just hurry it over Earth where their main fleet is stationed.

I still don't think they shut the relays down, they just cut systems off one by one.

How does Javik retreat to different worlds if the Relays are shut down or only Reapers can use them? Doesn't make sense... I think my idea holds the most water.

That is why it be nice to see what Vigil actually says and not run on memory only.

Also conventional FTL. It does take a long time to go between systems but remember the War lasted Centuries too.

I did, he mentions them taking control of them.. not shutting them down. That could easily be described as them taking the Relays communications off then sitting a Reaper ontop of the thing to wipe out anything coming through it. They already wiped out the main defense fleet of the Protheans when they jumped in and took them by surprise. 

SandTrout wrote...

Militarized wrote...

I dunno guys... I don't think it holds up. The Reapers could have actually been scared, honestly. IF... the plot is actually indoctrination the crucible is just a big energy blast that knocks out their shields, they'd just hurry it over Earth where their main fleet is stationed. 

I still don't think they shut the relays down, they just cut systems off one by one. 

How does Javik retreat to different worlds if the Relays are shut down or only Reapers can use them? Doesn't make sense... I think my idea holds the most water.

The thing is, you're basing your objection to the being a plot hole based on a character that was writen by the same team potentially responsable for the plot hole. Also, I wasn't foolish enough to get the From Ashes DLC, so if anyone wants to explain the Javik deal more thoroughly, please do.

 

I have it, he describes the war with the Reapers. They played it out as a war of attrition, fighting the Reapers planet to planet in a futile attempt to exact "losses" on them... retarded concept of warfare against them IMO. 

Modifié par Militarized, 14 mars 2012 - 08:45 .

[Madecologist]

As I mentioned, Javik could have used conventional FTL. The war did last centuries and they did have stasis pods.

I think too many people forgot there is none Relay FTL... it is slow but it is still FTL.

True... Control of them could mean anything.

Modifié par Madecologist, 14 mars 2012 - 08:44 .

[Jake71887]

Militarized wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

Militarized wrote...

I dunno guys... I don't think it holds up. The Reapers could have actually been scared, honestly. IF... the plot is actually indoctrination the crucible is just a big energy blast that knocks out their shields, they'd just hurry it over Earth where their main fleet is stationed.

I still don't think they shut the relays down, they just cut systems off one by one.

How does Javik retreat to different worlds if the Relays are shut down or only Reapers can use them? Doesn't make sense... I think my idea holds the most water.

Even if they shut down only one relay at a time, why didn't they shut down Sol's? The most logical one.

Well... one is the fact that their plan is already awry and now THEY'RE winging it. If they shut down the relay that's only one system, they would technically be as trapped there as the fleets are at the end of the game is now. They wouldn't be able to get reinforcements in at any decent time... I assume it takes a long time to powerdown/power up the Relays. 

No opposing fleets were in the Sol system, hacket sacrificed a fleet so the rest could retreat... And even if they came back there was little hope they'd fare better with even LESS people. And if tthe "shut down" of the relays was actualy just an enhanced IFF, then they wouldn't need to worry about getting reinforcements. 


Another thing, you mention Javik retreating to other worlds, the relays link to multiple solar systems. So it's possible for a relay to be shut down, and still travel to other habitable worlds.

[Where my deeds have lead me]

Jake71887 wrote...

Where my deeds have lead me wrote...

I never took cut off communication as turn off relays I just thought they took out the government and scrambled the radio waves isolating each prothean garrison or fleet. Plus can't you just turn on a dormant relay like Relay 314 for instance I don't think the citadel turned that one on or the Rachni relay.

They said they shut the relays down, isolating each system from one another.. if it were simply "We didn't get an answer", wouldn't they have sent ships to investigate? If not the Protheans were really lazy. 

Now that you mention that I do remember Vigil saying it sorry memory is a bit rusty. Hell maybe they wanted to kill the entire fleet at once.

[agathokakological]

The only way Shepard could do that is with the use of the Crucible, which we can assume the blueprints were created the same time as the Reapers by the god-child.

[count_4]

Jake71887 wrote...
Even if they shut down only one relay at a time, why didn't they shut down Sol's? The most logical one.

Even better: GTFO and leave one reaper behind to blow that thing up. That would end things pretty quickly.

[Peete]

SandTrout wrote...

The thing is, you're basing your objection to the being a plot hole based on a character that was writen by the same team potentially responsable for the plot hole. Also, I wasn't foolish enough to get the From Ashes DLC, so if anyone wants to explain the Javik deal more thoroughly, please do.

I'm running on memory here but:

When you ask Javik "How did you fight the reapers?"

He says "Through Attrition. Whole planets would be abandoned to slow their advance. Time they spent harvesting was time we could use to regroup."
I'm fairly certain that he said something along those lines.

Oh, and btw, take it from me; not getting From Ashes was the right choice. I despise Javik.

[Militarized]

How long does a Prothean even live? lol

I'm standing by my opinion that the plot hole doesn't work, they don't shut down the relays until they are done wiping the species out is my other assumption. It's probably a last thing they do before they leave the galaxy again... they are machines and probably follow a strict plan.

[111987]

count_4 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...
Even if they shut down only one relay at a time, why didn't they shut down Sol's? The most logical one.

Even better: GTFO and leave one reaper behind to blow that thing up. That would end things pretty quickly.

That would be counter productive to their main goal, the harvesting of humanity. Besides the Reapers had the Citadel defended, and had no reason to believe Shepard's fleet would be strong enough of a threat.

[Militarized]

These are the kind of fun discussions we should be having btw, not how the franchise got flushed down the toilet by a stupid capricious sky wizard.

[Madecologist]

It's probably not a plothole, shucks! Maybe it's its lesser cousin, plot curiosity.

[Jake71887]

Militarized wrote...

These are the kind of fun discussions we should be having btw, not how the franchise got flushed down the toilet by a stupid capricious sky wizard.

Yes, let's bash the game for it's OTHER blatant plot inconsistencies.