205 réponses à ce sujet

[Peete]

Jake71887 wrote...

.... But it's been established shutting down relay use is standard procedure for reapers during an invasion, hence.. 

This has not been established. They talk about taking control of them, not shutting them down. There is a difference.

[goofyomnivore]

I think it is pretty clear they meant shut down/deactivate non Reaper use. Hell the Codex goes into about deactivating Relays and discussing the differences between primary and secondary Relays. It isn't illogical to me to assume the Reapers know how to do that on a whim.

It would be extremely inefficient to "blockade" Relays since ships can often drift between 1000 and 1500km from their intended location after a jump. Plus you would assume they would do the same tactic in our cycle. Blockade the Relays to Palaven/Earth so they can't get aid, but yet they don't?

Modifié par strive, 14 mars 2012 - 09:29 .

[Jake71887]

Peete wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

.... But it's been established shutting down relay use is standard procedure for reapers during an invasion, hence.. 

This has not been established. They talk about taking control of them, not shutting them down. There is a difference.

I didn't say the relays were shut down, I said their use was... No one's quite clear on how exactly the reapers did that.. but we know it crippled both communication and transportaion, an event really only explainable if organics were no longer able to access it. 

So whether the relays used an advanced IFF, or it was powered down doesn't really matter, as it affected the protheans just the same. 

Modifié par Jake71887, 14 mars 2012 - 09:27 .

[Peete]

Jake71887 wrote...

I didn't say the relays were shut down, I said their use was... No one's quite clear on how exactly the reapers did that.. but we know it crippled both communication and transportaion, an event really only explainable if organics were no longer able to access it. 

So whether the relays used an advanced IFF, or it was powered down doesn't really matter, as it affected the protheans just the same. 

But I don't think that the use of ALL relays were shut down. Just enough to cripple the protheans.

[Wowlock]

Well Reapers always have their unchangeable saying and motto

'' In GoD-Child, we trust '' .... That is all there is to it...

[Jake71887]

Peete wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

I didn't say the relays were shut down, I said their use was... No one's quite clear on how exactly the reapers did that.. but we know it crippled both communication and transportaion, an event really only explainable if organics were no longer able to access it. 

So whether the relays used an advanced IFF, or it was powered down doesn't really matter, as it affected the protheans just the same. 

But I don't think that the use of ALL relays were shut down. Just enough to cripple the protheans.

Why half ass it? That doesn't make sense. If you took over the citadel, but only locked downa  few systems, then anyone could stumble upon the reapers plans and warn the remaining systems. Doesn't seem logical.

[didymos1120]

SandTrout wrote...

Seriously, the more I think about this game, the worse I realize the plot was.

This is why I wasn't gut-punched by the ending the way so many were.  I went into it fully expecting it to not make sense.  Granted, it ended up making even less than I'd anticipated, but still, not much of a surprise.


BTW, I see it hasn't been mentioned yet: the relays around the Citadel were disabled in ME1.  The 5th Fleet couldn't get in until you re-opened them.  And yet, the entire Reaper armada couldn't manage to even shut down the Sol relay, which would have denied the Crucible access.  They could have just lain in wait at Arcturus, disabled that relay once everyone had jumped in, and slaughtered them.  Or, you know, shut down the relays around the Citadel again and left it where it was.

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 mars 2012 - 09:35 .

[Peete]

Jake71887 wrote...



Why half ass it? That doesn't make sense. If you took over the citadel, but only locked downa  few systems, then anyone could stumble upon the reapers plans and warn the remaining systems. Doesn't seem logical.

Because if the relays are still functioning people would stick to them. If the relays are shut down people will drift away from them.

[MrDizazta]

I was think this too, until I realized that right after the final Cerberus Mission before going through the Sol relay that every relay on the Galaxy Map had Reapers over them and were inaccessible. Which could mean that they already did do what the OP is suggesting.

[Militarized]

 Wait what? Where does it say that about ME1 relay? 

MrDizaztar wrote...

I was think this too, until I realized that right after the final Cerberus Mission before going through the Sol relay that every relay on the Galaxy Map had Reapers over them and were inaccessible. Which could mean that they already did do what the OP is suggesting.

 

Really? Well.... maybe they actually did fix that plot hole then. The freaking fleet just opened up the relay to Sol(I guess they opened it to get to Soverien if the ME1 shut down is right? 

Well... I tip my hat to you sir on the controling relay bit if that's correct. 

Modifié par Militarized, 14 mars 2012 - 09:40 .

[Jake71887]

Peete wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...



Why half ass it? That doesn't make sense. If you took over the citadel, but only locked downa  few systems, then anyone could stumble upon the reapers plans and warn the remaining systems. Doesn't seem logical.

Because if the relays are still functioning people would stick to them. If the relays are shut down people will drift away from them.

Assuming they have:

The resources to wander the galaxy sans relays to find hospitable planets.
Know the rest of the galaxy is being exterminated and they need to move.
Don't have any indoctrinated refugees among them giving away their positions(Which did happen tot hsoe trying to escape).

[didymos1120]

Militarized wrote...

 Wait what? Where does it say that about ME1 relay? 

[didymos1120]

MrDizaztar wrote...

I was think this too, until I realized that right after the final Cerberus Mission before going through the Sol relay that every relay on the Galaxy Map had Reapers over them and were inaccessible. Which could mean that they already did do what the OP is suggesting.

Or that was just a gameplay thing to make it clear you had to go to Earth.

[111987]

didymos1120 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Seriously, the more I think about this game, the worse I realize the plot was.

This is why I wasn't gut-punched by the ending the way so many were.  I went into it fully expecting it to not make sense.  Granted, it ended up making even less than I'd anticipated, but still, not much of a surprise.


BTW, I see it hasn't been mentioned yet: the relays around the Citadel were disabled in ME1.  The 5th Fleet couldn't get in until you re-opened them.  And yet, the entire Reaper armada couldn't manage to even shut down the Sol relay, which would have denied the Crucible access.  They could have just lain in wait at Arcturus, disabled that relay once everyone had jumped in, and slaughtered them.  Or, you know, shut down the relays around the Citadel again and left it where it was.

That would be quite a risk though. Leaving the Citadel unprotected could very well result in their destruction. The armada could have been in a system close to the Citadel, and even without Relay access they could have used standard FTL to reach the Citadel.

[MrDizazta]

didymos1120 wrote...

MrDizaztar wrote...

I was think this too, until I realized that right after the final Cerberus Mission before going through the Sol relay that every relay on the Galaxy Map had Reapers over them and were inaccessible. Which could mean that they already did do what the OP is suggesting.

Or that was just a gameplay thing to make it clear you had to go to Earth.

Gameplay vs Lore, you never know with this series

[Jake71887]

111987 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Seriously, the more I think about this game, the worse I realize the plot was.

This is why I wasn't gut-punched by the ending the way so many were.  I went into it fully expecting it to not make sense.  Granted, it ended up making even less than I'd anticipated, but still, not much of a surprise.


BTW, I see it hasn't been mentioned yet: the relays around the Citadel were disabled in ME1.  The 5th Fleet couldn't get in until you re-opened them.  And yet, the entire Reaper armada couldn't manage to even shut down the Sol relay, which would have denied the Crucible access.  They could have just lain in wait at Arcturus, disabled that relay once everyone had jumped in, and slaughtered them.  Or, you know, shut down the relays around the Citadel again and left it where it was.

That would be quite a risk though. Leaving the Citadel unprotected could very well result in their destruction. The armada could have been in a system close to the Citadel, and even without Relay access they could have used standard FTL to reach the Citadel.

If you look at where the citadel is, in relation to other star clusters, it's rather unbelieveable that we'd be able to sustain a fleet's fuel supplies to reach it int he years it would take. Yes even in FTL, clusters are quite a distance, and many lightyears apart.

[Militarized]

didymos1120 wrote...

Militarized wrote...

 Wait what? Where does it say that about ME1 relay? 

SOB!!! Well, proved me wrong . I still don't see it as a plothole then though, if you ge tout of the cerberus base you can't go anywhere else right? So they did shut the relays down . Which technially means they stop their own reinforcements... which means you COULD beat them conventially. They just manually open the ME3 Sol relay, which takes more time(because they have the time.. just a giant fleet sitting there). 

[AlexXIV]

Tbh *teleporting* the Citadel was always bad writing from start. So if they can zap it across the galaxy with a snip of their reaper fingers, then so what. Have to wonder why they fly at all and not just zap around. Like Banshees.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 14 mars 2012 - 09:49 .

[111987]

Jake71887 wrote...

111987 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Seriously, the more I think about this game, the worse I realize the plot was.

This is why I wasn't gut-punched by the ending the way so many were.  I went into it fully expecting it to not make sense.  Granted, it ended up making even less than I'd anticipated, but still, not much of a surprise.


BTW, I see it hasn't been mentioned yet: the relays around the Citadel were disabled in ME1.  The 5th Fleet couldn't get in until you re-opened them.  And yet, the entire Reaper armada couldn't manage to even shut down the Sol relay, which would have denied the Crucible access.  They could have just lain in wait at Arcturus, disabled that relay once everyone had jumped in, and slaughtered them.  Or, you know, shut down the relays around the Citadel again and left it where it was.

That would be quite a risk though. Leaving the Citadel unprotected could very well result in their destruction. The armada could have been in a system close to the Citadel, and even without Relay access they could have used standard FTL to reach the Citadel.

If you look at where the citadel is, in relation to other star clusters, it's rather unbelieveable that we'd be able to sustain a fleet's fuel supplies to reach it int he years it would take. Yes even in FTL, clusters are quite a distance, and many lightyears apart.

You gotta look at it from the perspective of the Reapers though. They have no idea what the Crucible is. All they know is that it's a superweapon that the entire galaxy has been working on to defeat them. Since they have absolutely no idea how it works, why not just play it safe and guard the Citadel yourself? What if the Crucible's advanced technolgy and power generators are enough to provide super fast FTL flight, for example? I mean the Reapers have super fast FTL travel. The combined forces of the galaxy might have been able to match or even surpass that speed.

Too many variables, when you can just be safe and protect the Citadel yourself.

[didymos1120]

Militarized wrote...

 They just manually open the ME3 Sol relay, which takes more time(because they have the time.. just a giant fleet sitting there). 

Yeah, it takes more than one relay jump to get from where Cerberus was to Sol.  The only relay known to connect to Sol was at Arcturus (a system, BTW, that the Reapers controlled, but apparently didn't bother to guard).  Also, if they could just open disabled relays like that, then why did Joker need Shep to do it for them from the Citadel in ME1?

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 mars 2012 - 09:52 .

[Jake71887]

111987 wrote...
You gotta look at it from the perspective of the Reapers though. They have no idea what the Crucible is. All they know is that it's a superweapon that the entire galaxy has been working on to defeat them. Since they have absolutely no idea how it works, why not just play it safe and guard the Citadel yourself? What if the Crucible's advanced technolgy and power generators are enough to provide super fast FTL flight, for example? I mean the Reapers have super fast FTL travel. The combined forces of the galaxy might have been able to match or even surpass that speed.

Too many variables, when you can just be safe and protect the Citadel yourself.

I'm not aruging against them moving it to where a majority of their fleet is, I'm just saying that it's unlikely at FTL speeds, our fleet could make it to the citadel. 

[Militarized]

didymos1120 wrote...

Militarized wrote...

 They just manually open the ME3 Sol relay, which takes more time(because they have the time.. just a giant fleet sitting there). 

Yeah, it takes more than one relay jump to get from where Cerberus was to Sol.  The only relay known to connect to Sol was at Arcturus (a system, BTW, that the Reapers controlled, but apparently didn't bother to guard).  Also, if they could just open disabled relays like that, then why did Joker need Shep to do it for them from the Citadel in ME1?

I assume... for drama and to get it done in a faster pace. Please don't forget that even though it is a story and needs to keep pace with it's thematic elements. 

[Atarun]

The problem I have with what the Protheans did to the Citadel is... that they lost the Citadel long before they went extinct.
How could the Reapers not notice and fix everything the Protheans did? You know, before going back to dark space for 50k years?

Another thing: the whole plot rests on Reapers not knowing about the Crucible until the indoctrinated Illusive Man gets his hands on Thessia's Prothean VI through Kai Leng. Am I the only one who finds that extremely difficult to swallow?

The Crucible was conceived through untold number of cycles... at the end of whose Reapers harvested every civilization (rather than all organic life) in the galaxy. And still, they never found out about the Crucible? And about the Catalyst being the Citadel?

If so, I'd say Reapers have great hardware, but their AI sucks.

[ed87]

I had this same feeling towards the end. Everything was making no sense and the abrupt ending just drowned out my confusion with rage

[didymos1120]

Militarized wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Militarized wrote...

 They just manually open the ME3 Sol relay, which takes more time(because they have the time.. just a giant fleet sitting there). 

Yeah, it takes more than one relay jump to get from where Cerberus was to Sol.  The only relay known to connect to Sol was at Arcturus (a system, BTW, that the Reapers controlled, but apparently didn't bother to guard).  Also, if they could just open disabled relays like that, then why did Joker need Shep to do it for them from the Citadel in ME1?

I assume... for drama and to get it done in a faster pace. Please don't forget that even though it is a story and needs to keep pace with it's thematic elements. 

OK, but do you see what I'm saying?  To get from Cerberus HQ to Sol, the megafleet would have had to re-enable numerous relays, a feat they couldn't even manage with one back in ME1.  And also, it still leaves open the question of why the Reapers weren't laying in wait at Arcturus, the only point of access to the Sol system.


ETA: As an analogy, it's like if Garrus hadn't bothered defending that bridge after sealing up the other entrances to that building.

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 mars 2012 - 09:57 .