205 réponses à ce sujet

[111987]

Jake71887 wrote...

111987 wrote...
You gotta look at it from the perspective of the Reapers though. They have no idea what the Crucible is. All they know is that it's a superweapon that the entire galaxy has been working on to defeat them. Since they have absolutely no idea how it works, why not just play it safe and guard the Citadel yourself? What if the Crucible's advanced technolgy and power generators are enough to provide super fast FTL flight, for example? I mean the Reapers have super fast FTL travel. The combined forces of the galaxy might have been able to match or even surpass that speed.

Too many variables, when you can just be safe and protect the Citadel yourself.

I'm not aruging against them moving it to where a majority of their fleet is, I'm just saying that it's unlikely at FTL speeds, our fleet could make it to the citadel. 

Definitely the fleet wouldn't.

[Fail_Inc]

Jake71887 wrote...

The god child prevented that from happening. Because he could, god child don't need reasons.

What would god child do if he was here today, he'd screw our game and laugh at us too that's what god child would do...

[111987]

didymos1120 wrote...

Militarized wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Militarized wrote...

 They just manually open the ME3 Sol relay, which takes more time(because they have the time.. just a giant fleet sitting there). 

Yeah, it takes more than one relay jump to get from where Cerberus was to Sol.  The only relay known to connect to Sol was at Arcturus (a system, BTW, that the Reapers controlled, but apparently didn't bother to guard).  Also, if they could just open disabled relays like that, then why did Joker need Shep to do it for them from the Citadel in ME1?

I assume... for drama and to get it done in a faster pace. Please don't forget that even though it is a story and needs to keep pace with it's thematic elements. 

OK, but do you see what I'm saying?  To get from Cerberus HQ to Sol, the megafleet would have had to re-enable numerous relays, a feat they couldn't even manage with one back in ME1.  And also, it still leaves open the question of why the Reapers weren't laying in wait at Arcturus, the only point of access to the Sol system.

Maybe because of drift? The Codex talks about how there's usually a drift of several thousand kilometers in any direction. Theoretically the fleet could just warp in far far away from the Reapers, then just make a beeline for the Citadel. By consolidating your forces at Earth, you know exactly where the enemy is coming from and can meet them head on. It ensure the bulk of your forces are close to the Citadel, thus avoiding any sneak tactics that could be employed if the battle took place elsewhere.

[Jake71887]

Fail_Inc wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

The god child prevented that from happening. Because he could, god child don't need reasons.

What would god child do if he was here today, he'd screw our game and laugh at us too that's what god child would do...

I read that to the pacing of this

[didymos1120]

Atarun wrote...

The problem I have with what the Protheans did to the Citadel is... that they lost the Citadel long before they went extinct.
How could the Reapers not notice and fix everything the Protheans did? You know, before going back to dark space for 50k years?

Because Vigil waited until the Reapers were gone before waking the survivors up.  Of course, now we have to wonder why the Starkid let them tamper with the keepers at all, or didn't just fix it.

[ed87]

Atarun wrote...

If so, I'd say Reapers have great hardware, but their AI sucks.

Reapers have always had a sense of supremacy about them. Saying this is their fatal flaw doesnt seem fitting

[ed87]

*double post*

Modifié par ed87, 14 mars 2012 - 10:01 .

[didymos1120]

111987 wrote...

Maybe because of drift? The Codex talks about how there's usually a drift of several thousand kilometers in any direction. Theoretically the fleet could just warp in far far away from the Reapers, then just make a beeline for the Citadel. By consolidating your forces at Earth, you know exactly where the enemy is coming from and can meet them head on. It ensure the bulk of your forces are close to the Citadel, thus avoiding any sneak tactics that could be employed if the battle took place elsewhere.

No, you have to approach close to the relay to use it. Drift is what happens when you come out of a jump, not what happens when you go into one. They could have blocked them at Arcturus, before they even got into the Sol system at all.  Arcturus is the only way in.  Especially if that relay was locked down, and the fleet had to sit there and try to re-enable it.  A feat, BTW, that there's zero proof the good guys were capable of. Everyone is just assuming they could re-enable relays. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 mars 2012 - 10:04 .

[111987]

didymos1120 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Maybe because of drift? The Codex talks about how there's usually a drift of several thousand kilometers in any direction. Theoretically the fleet could just warp in far far away from the Reapers, then just make a beeline for the Citadel. By consolidating your forces at Earth, you know exactly where the enemy is coming from and can meet them head on. It ensure the bulk of your forces are close to the Citadel, thus avoiding any sneak tactics that could be employed if the battle took place elsewhere.

No, you have to approach close to the relay to use it. Drift is what happens when you come out of a jump, not what happens when you go into one. They could have blocked them at Arcturus, before they even got into the Sol system at all.  Arcturus is the only way in.

Hmm good point...butl still, it'd be a risky move for the Reapers, wouldn't it? Shepard's fleet is huge, and some ships are bound to gain access to the Relay. Since the Reapers don't know anything about the Crucible, that's a big risk to take. For all they know, it could be something as small as a datefile that a single ship could carry through.

EDIT: I'm also assuming that Shepard's fleet has access to the Reaper IFF.

Modifié par 111987, 14 mars 2012 - 10:06 .

[Raptr569]

Didn't Vigil give Shepard something to stop Sovereign controlling the Citadel? I would assume stopping all the Reapers controlling it? No?

Moving the Citadel seemed ridiculous to me

[didymos1120]

How is it riskier than letting them get within spitting distance of the Citadel?

[Jake71887]

Raptr569 wrote...

Didn't Vigil give Shepard something to stop Sovereign controlling the Citadel? I would assume stopping all the Reapers controlling it? No?

Moving the Citadel seemed ridiculous to me

Only temporary control.

[didymos1120]

Raptr569 wrote...

Didn't Vigil give Shepard something to stop Sovereign controlling the Citadel? I would assume stopping all the Reapers controlling it? No?

Yes, Vigil did.  Of course, since the Starkid, Lord of the Reapers, lives on the Citadel, we have to wonder why that even worked in the first place.

[111987]

didymos1120 wrote...

How is it riskier than letting them get within spitting distance of the Citadel?

Because by guarding the Citadel closely, you prevent anything and everything from getting close to the Citadel, whether it be a huge megastructure of a single ship. If you have all your forces somewhere else, or even the majority of your forces elsewhere, it increases the risk of the Crucible reaching the Citadel.

[Atarun]

ed87 wrote...

Atarun wrote...

If so, I'd say Reapers have great hardware, but their AI sucks.

Reapers have always had a sense of supremacy about them. Saying this is their fatal flaw doesnt seem fitting

A sense of supremacy powerful enough that they wouldn't check the Citadel? You know, to make sure everything's in order for the next invasion, 50k year afterwards?

I would run checks _all the time_ if I were a sentient synthetic, let me tell you. ^^

[Jake71887]

Atarun wrote...

ed87 wrote...

Atarun wrote...

If so, I'd say Reapers have great hardware, but their AI sucks.

Reapers have always had a sense of supremacy about them. Saying this is their fatal flaw doesnt seem fitting

A sense of supremacy powerful enough that they wouldn't check the Citadel? You know, to make sure everything's in order for the next invasion, 50k year afterwards?

I would run checks _all the time_ if I were a sentient synthetic, let me tell you. ^^

I could stand to hear more. 

[Militarized]

didymos1120 wrote...

Militarized wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Militarized wrote...

 They just manually open the ME3 Sol relay, which takes more time(because they have the time.. just a giant fleet sitting there). 

Yeah, it takes more than one relay jump to get from where Cerberus was to Sol.  The only relay known to connect to Sol was at Arcturus (a system, BTW, that the Reapers controlled, but apparently didn't bother to guard).  Also, if they could just open disabled relays like that, then why did Joker need Shep to do it for them from the Citadel in ME1?

I assume... for drama and to get it done in a faster pace. Please don't forget that even though it is a story and needs to keep pace with it's thematic elements. 

OK, but do you see what I'm saying?  To get from Cerberus HQ to Sol, the megafleet would have had to re-enable numerous relays, a feat they couldn't even manage with one back in ME1.  And also, it still leaves open the question of why the Reapers weren't laying in wait at Arcturus, the only point of access to the Sol system.


ETA: As an analogy, it's like if Garrus hadn't bothered defending that bridge after sealing up the other entrances to that building.

You COULD argue that the mega-fleet had formed closer to the relay then we knew... we only had 1 very small fleet at the cerberus base and then we run off to Sol don't we? 

I do see what you're saying and I'm honestly willing to just say "Well, we just don't see the passage of time" and just gloss over this. It's not a game changing plot hole in my opinion even if it can even be described as one. 

[didymos1120]

111987 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

How is it riskier than letting them get within spitting distance of the Citadel?

Because by guarding the Citadel closely, you prevent anything and everything from getting close to the Citadel, whether it be a huge megastructure of a single ship. If you have all your forces somewhere else, or even the majority of your forces elsewhere, it increases the risk of the Crucible reaching the Citadel.

OK, seriously, you're not getting it: Arcturus is the ONLY WAY INTO OUR SYSTEM.  The fleet has to go there.  You lock that relay down and slaughter everyone and destroy everything.

Also, here's another question: why put the Citadel somewhere obvious like Earth at all?  Just move it to some system no one living knows about because they never explored that part of the relay network. Most of the galaxy is unknown territory, per the Codex.  The Reapers could have made sure no one ever found it.

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 mars 2012 - 10:18 .

[Jake71887]

didymos1120 wrote...

111987 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

How is it riskier than letting them get within spitting distance of the Citadel?

Because by guarding the Citadel closely, you prevent anything and everything from getting close to the Citadel, whether it be a huge megastructure of a single ship. If you have all your forces somewhere else, or even the majority of your forces elsewhere, it increases the risk of the Crucible reaching the Citadel.

OK, seriously, you're not getting it: Arcturus is the ONLY WAY INTO OUR SYSTEM.  The fleet has to go there.  You lock that relay down and slaughter everyone and destroy everything.

Also, here's another question: why put the Citadel somewhere obvious like Earth at all?  Just move it to some system no one living knows about because they never explored that part of the relay network. Most of the galaxy is unknown territory, per the Codex.

It's not logical, it was only done as a storytelling point... The war started with Earth, and ends with Earth sort of thing.

[didymos1120]

Jake71887 wrote...


It's not logical, it was only done as a storytelling point... The war started with Earth, and ends with Earth sort of thing.

Yeah, I know.  It was a Socratic method thing.  You're supposed to realize the plot is dumb because that's the only answer there is: because the script says so.

[111987]

didymos1120 wrote...

111987 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

How is it riskier than letting them get within spitting distance of the Citadel?

Because by guarding the Citadel closely, you prevent anything and everything from getting close to the Citadel, whether it be a huge megastructure of a single ship. If you have all your forces somewhere else, or even the majority of your forces elsewhere, it increases the risk of the Crucible reaching the Citadel.

OK, seriously, you're not getting it: Arcturus is the ONLY WAY INTO OUR SYSTEM.  The fleet has to go there.  You lock that relay down and slaughter everyone and destroy everything.

Also, here's another question: why put the Citadel somewhere obvious like Earth at all?  Just move it to some system no one living knows about because they never explored that part of the relay network. Most of the galaxy is unknown territory, per the Codex.

I do get it. Maybe you didn't see the edit I made, but I clarified that I am working under the assumption that the fleet has access to the Reaper IFF and thus can't be locked out of relays.

As for your question, it's obviously done that way for storytelling purposes, dramatic impact, etc...

[alienatedflea]

SandTrout wrote...

 Sorry to do this, but I may have just realized that there is One Plot Hole to Rule them all, and really just nails the coffin shut on ME3 as just utter incompotence in the plot. Then again, with as fast as this forum is moving right now, this idea may have just been buried with uncanny speed. Here goes.

Remeber that Sovereign initially intended to use the Citadel to shut down the Relay Network so that the Reapers could isolate and sytematically destroy systems?

Well, the Reapers had such full control over the Citadel that they could move it to the Sol system, yet they didn't even think to do that, and allowed the massive fleet and Crucible to engage their force.

I'm sorry, but I now must simply write off the ending as they actually thought that it was good and couldn't come up with anything better. I'm not sure why I didn't see it sooner, but I'd chalk it up to the pacing of the game followed by the trauma of the ending. I can't even write this one off as potential Hallucination fodder because it happens too early.

Serriously, the more I think about this game, the worse I realize the plot was. I guess I was just distracted by the pretty lights before to not notice the holes, but this really is turning out to be inexcusable, to the point of being irredeemable for me. The writing of the Characters was generally good to great, but the plot just unravels more and more as you inspect it.

Maybe I'll feel better in the morning.

um the reapers was not going to "shut down the relay systems". they were going to use the conduit to transport themselves in the "heart" of galactic civilization...you know for the "shock and awe" effect;;.it had northing to do with shutting down the relays...the relays are there for their own and our own convenience...faster mode of transportation...faster and more efficient

[didymos1120]

111987 wrote...

As for your question, it's obviously done that way for storytelling purposes, dramatic impact, etc...

And the point is, that's bad writing.

[Jake71887]

111987 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

111987 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

How is it riskier than letting them get within spitting distance of the Citadel?

Because by guarding the Citadel closely, you prevent anything and everything from getting close to the Citadel, whether it be a huge megastructure of a single ship. If you have all your forces somewhere else, or even the majority of your forces elsewhere, it increases the risk of the Crucible reaching the Citadel.

OK, seriously, you're not getting it: Arcturus is the ONLY WAY INTO OUR SYSTEM.  The fleet has to go there.  You lock that relay down and slaughter everyone and destroy everything.

Also, here's another question: why put the Citadel somewhere obvious like Earth at all?  Just move it to some system no one living knows about because they never explored that part of the relay network. Most of the galaxy is unknown territory, per the Codex.

I do get it. Maybe you didn't see the edit I made, but I clarified that I am working under the assumption that the fleet has access to the Reaper IFF and thus can't be locked out of relays.

As for your question, it's obviously done that way for storytelling purposes, dramatic impact, etc...

That may work if:

1: We knew our fleet all had the IFF,a nd considering some fleets were late to sign up it's unlikely. 
2: We knew the reason organics couldn't use the relays was because of an IFF
3: That the IFF for the Omega 4 was the same as the one needed.

[Jake71887]

alienatedflea wrote...
um the reapers was not going to "shut down the relay systems". they were going to use the conduit to transport themselves in the "heart" of galactic civilization...you know for the "shock and awe" effect;;.it had northing to do with shutting down the relays...the relays are there for their own and our own convenience...faster mode of transportation...faster and more efficient

I linked a vid to Vigils convo about the reaper invasion, watch it.