205 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

didymos1120 wrote...

111987 wrote...

As for your question, it's obviously done that way for storytelling purposes, dramatic impact, etc...

And the point is, that's bad writing.

Though another point is, ME always had bad writing. Probably Bioware always had bad writing. Not that they can't write in general. They do a good job in bringing the characters to life. But the plot as such was always lacking. And not only since ME/DAO. You just have to ignore certain things. Though with the ending they went too far. You can't just ignore the end of a story.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 14 mars 2012 - 10:28 .

[111987]

didymos1120 wrote...

111987 wrote...

As for your question, it's obviously done that way for storytelling purposes, dramatic impact, etc...

And the point is, that's bad writing.

Yeah, logically it doesn't make sense. But at least it fits in with the theme and premise of the game, which is gathering the fleets for Earth.

It could just come down to the Reapers wanting to avoid any and all variables. Maybe there were QE devices on the Citadel that could link to the fleet, for example.

So yeah it's bad writing, but I think there is bigger fish to fry.

[Jake71887]

AlexXIV wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

111987 wrote...

As for your question, it's obviously done that way for storytelling purposes, dramatic impact, etc...

And the point is, that's bad writing.

Though another point is, ME always had bad writing. Probably Bioware always had bad writing. Not that they can't write in general. They do a good job in bringing the characters to life. But the plot as such was always lacking. And not only since ME/DAO. You just have to ignore certain things. Though with the ending they went too far. You can't just ignore the end of a story.

I loved ME1, DA:O, and KOTOR's stories.... Up until DA2, I would've said Bioware's games had the best written stories and characters of any game.

[111987]

Jake71887 wrote...


That may work if:

1: We knew our fleet all had the IFF,a nd considering some fleets were late to sign up it's unlikely. 
2: We knew the reason organics couldn't use the relays was because of an IFF
3: That the IFF for the Omega 4 was the same as the one needed.

1. The IFF is just a signal; it's not like it'd be difficult to install or anything.
2/3. The way the IFF works is that it sends a signal to the Relays unlocking certain features of the Relays, namely super accurate transportation. There's no reason why the IFF would only work for the Omega 4 Relay, as the way it was explained suggests it just makes relay transporation more accurate. Since we know the Reapers can still use the Relays when they are locked down, the IFF should allow the fleet to bypass the locks as well.

[Atarun]

Jake71887 wrote...
I loved ME1, DA:O, and KOTOR's stories.... Up until DA2, I would've said Bioware's games had the best written stories and characters of any game.

Come on! DA2 had awesome characters and it was fairly well written. Its flaw was that it was incredibly rushed. The map recycling, the nonsensical enemy spawning...

[Jake71887]

111987 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...


That may work if:

1: We knew our fleet all had the IFF,a nd considering some fleets were late to sign up it's unlikely. 
2: We knew the reason organics couldn't use the relays was because of an IFF
3: That the IFF for the Omega 4 was the same as the one needed.

1. The IFF is just a signal; it's not like it'd be difficult to install or anything.
2/3. The way the IFF works is that it sends a signal to the Relays unlocking certain features of the Relays, namely super accurate transportation. There's no reason why the IFF would only work for the Omega 4 Relay, as the way it was explained suggests it just makes relay transporation more accurate. Since we know the Reapers can still use the Relays when they are locked down, the IFF should allow the fleet to bypass the locks as well.

We actually don't know that the Reapers used the relays when they were down, it's possible they shut them down and activated them individually to invade.

We also don't know if the same IFF code used for the Omega 4 is the same that would bee needed during a lockdown, it's possible there'd be a different configuration.

During ME2 it took time to integrate the IFF into the normandy, and that was with an AI doing it, so it could take longer doing it for individual ships using only engineers. Not to mention it may not be compatible with every ship design, notice Quarian, Geth, and turian ships are very different.

[Jake71887]

Atarun wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...
I loved ME1, DA:O, and KOTOR's stories.... Up until DA2, I would've said Bioware's games had the best written stories and characters of any game.

Come on! DA2 had awesome characters and it was fairly well written. Its flaw was that it was incredibly rushed. The map recycling, the nonsensical enemy spawning...

I felt the plot was flimsy, and I didn't feel any "connection" to any of the characters except for Varric... And since my connection to bioware's characters is one of it's greatest selling points to me, iI just couldn't enjoy it. 

Though maybe if I were into random T&A like Miranda and Isabelle, I might have enjoyed it more 

[111987]

Jake71887 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...


That may work if:

1: We knew our fleet all had the IFF,a nd considering some fleets were late to sign up it's unlikely. 
2: We knew the reason organics couldn't use the relays was because of an IFF
3: That the IFF for the Omega 4 was the same as the one needed.

1. The IFF is just a signal; it's not like it'd be difficult to install or anything.
2/3. The way the IFF works is that it sends a signal to the Relays unlocking certain features of the Relays, namely super accurate transportation. There's no reason why the IFF would only work for the Omega 4 Relay, as the way it was explained suggests it just makes relay transporation more accurate. Since we know the Reapers can still use the Relays when they are locked down, the IFF should allow the fleet to bypass the locks as well.

We actually don't know that the Reapers used the relays when they were down, it's possible they shut them down and activated them individually to invade.

We also don't know if the same IFF code used for the Omega 4 is the same that would bee needed during a lockdown, it's possible there'd be a different configuration.

During ME2 it took time to integrate the IFF into the normandy, and that was with an AI doing it, so it could take longer doing it for individual ships using only engineers. Not to mention it may not be compatible with every ship design, notice Quarian, Geth, and turian ships are very different.

True, we don't know much about the specifics of locking the relays and what nots. As to your last point though, the IFF didn't take long to install, it was the analysis of it that caused the delay.

[Jake71887]

111987 wrote...
True, we don't know much about the specifics of locking the relays and what nots. As to your last point though, the IFF didn't take long to install, it was the analysis of it that caused the delay. 

"The IFF will take some time to integrate into my systems Commander, I recommend you take a shuttle for your next mission"

[Atarun]

Jake71887 wrote...
I felt the plot was flimsy, and I didn't feel any "connection" to any of the characters except for Varric... And since my connection to bioware's characters is one of it's greatest selling points to me, iI just couldn't enjoy it. 

Though maybe if I were into random T&A like Miranda and Isabelle, I might have enjoyed it more 

Sorry to hear that you didn't connect to any of the characters... But Merril is anything but T&A and I loved her so much myself. ^^

[Militarized]

didymos1120 wrote...

111987 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

How is it riskier than letting them get within spitting distance of the Citadel?

Because by guarding the Citadel closely, you prevent anything and everything from getting close to the Citadel, whether it be a huge megastructure of a single ship. If you have all your forces somewhere else, or even the majority of your forces elsewhere, it increases the risk of the Crucible reaching the Citadel.

OK, seriously, you're not getting it: Arcturus is the ONLY WAY INTO OUR SYSTEM.  The fleet has to go there.  You lock that relay down and slaughter everyone and destroy everything.

Also, here's another question: why put the Citadel somewhere obvious like Earth at all?  Just move it to some system no one living knows about because they never explored that part of the relay network. Most of the galaxy is unknown territory, per the Codex.  The Reapers could have made sure no one ever found it.

I'm speed reading, watching the new game change film.. and been up all night XD sorry. You're right . There really is no other reason then to move the story along and back to focus on Earth where is started. 

Which... quite honeslty I'd be willing to forgive for a narrative perspective, considering the whole point of the crucible is pretty much just a plot device anyway. 

Modifié par Militarized, 14 mars 2012 - 10:45 .

[111987]

Jake71887 wrote...

111987 wrote...
True, we don't know much about the specifics of locking the relays and what nots. As to your last point though, the IFF didn't take long to install, it was the analysis of it that caused the delay. 

"The IFF will take some time to integrate into my systems Commander, I recommend you take a shuttle for your next mission"

I just rewatched the video on Youtube and the quote I saw was "I reccommend a more thorough analysis before we attempt to use it."

Regardless, there was at least a period of several days after securing the last batch of war assets (Geth and Quarians) and the attack on Earth.

[Jake71887]

Atarun wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...
I felt the plot was flimsy, and I didn't feel any "connection" to any of the characters except for Varric... And since my connection to bioware's characters is one of it's greatest selling points to me, iI just couldn't enjoy it. 

Though maybe if I were into random T&A like Miranda and Isabelle, I might have enjoyed it more 

Sorry to hear that you didn't connect to any of the characters... But Merril is anything but T&A and I loved her so much myself. ^^

Merril I liked, not loved.. I suppose her character ultimately just confused me.

She had this sweet and innocent Tali vibe going for most of it, but then at some parts she seemed to switch into more Morrigan-esque. 

"Oh, are you flirting? I'm so embarassed... Let's do blood magic?!"

K.....

[Element Zero]

Unfortunately, this game was full of errors, when held up to its own established lore. We would've been willing to let them go with a chuckle and shake of the head, had the endings not sucked b@llz.

I immediately wondered how the Normandy was going to be able to travel the galaxy. Oh, Admiral, you say the stealth systems will do the job? This would be the same stealth system that didn't fool the Reapers' Collector flunkies, right? Do you remember I died?

The Reapers abandoning the tactics that presumably worked every previous cycle also makes no sense. They're arrogant, but efficient. Why the hell would they do this? I'd actually assumed, before playing, that you'd be visiting the Heads of State on their own worlds. I'd figured the Citadel would be lost pretty quickly. Why wouldn't a sizable Reaper force jump there ASAP?

I could go on and on, but it's pointless. I'd have still loved the game, as would many others, and we'd be singing it's praises, had Bioware's ending not been so abysmal.

[Atarun]

Jake71887 wrote...
Merril I liked, not loved.. I suppose her character ultimately just confused me.

She had this sweet and innocent Tali vibe going for most of it, but then at some parts she seemed to switch into more Morrigan-esque. 

"Oh, are you flirting? I'm so embarassed... Let's do blood magic?!"

K.....

Funny I never saw a resemblance between Merril and either Tali or Morrigan... The BioWare characters she reminds me most of are Imoen, Leliana and Liara, actually. All four are smart yet naive, selfless and single-minded... they all come off as aloof paragons of justice and abnegation at first, but the further you delve into your relationships with them, the more darkness you uncover.

Maybe that's just me filling the gaps and projecting what I want to see in those characters. ^^

Modifié par Atarun, 14 mars 2012 - 01:15 .

[Jake71887]

Atarun wrote...
Maybe that's just me filling the gaps and projecting what I want to see in those characters. ^^

Same could be said of me I suppose... honestly I've only managed to complete 1 playthrough of DA2(Compared to my 9 playthroughs of DA:O), so I can't really say for sure what she's most like... Just the original impressions she gave. Plus that weird 50's swimsuit underwear thing she had in the romance scene was really off-putting 

[Atarun]

Jake71887 wrote...
Same could be said of me I suppose... honestly I've only managed to complete 1 playthrough of DA2(Compared to my 9 playthroughs of DA:O), so I can't really say for sure what she's most like... Just the original impressions she gave. Plus that weird 50's swimsuit underwear thing she had in the romance scene was really off-putting 

The whole concept of having sex with underwear still on bogles my mind. 
I know, I know, it's supposedly for modesty's sake... but then why put a sex scene at all? (Note that I am criticizing 99.99% of Hollywood-like media, not BioWare products )

[RagingCeltik]

I don't think it's a plot hole. Remember the code Vigil gave Shepard at Ilos specifically designed to lock the Reapers out of those exact controls? And besides, they *need* the relay network up and running so that the rest of the Reaper force throughout the galaxy can move into other systems and continue their work.

[nitefyre410]

SandTrout wrote...

Sorry, it's late here, and I'm tired and somewhat depressed now. The plot hole is that the Reapers grabbed the Citadel when we hit the Cerberus Station, but they did not deactivate the relays with it.

 

thats the first thing I though of when Hackett says..

"They Repears moved the Citadel"  I was like "Oh boy we're  ****ed now" 

yet the Relays still work ... um... okay... just going roll with it.   Mabye  Harbinger forgot that little fact... 

nope it was that bad.. okay so everything after the  Chronos Stations need to be scrapped.  Thats   most like way they take you back that far.

[nitefyre410]

RagingCeltik wrote...

I don't think it's a plot hole. Remember the code Vigil gave Shepard at Ilos specifically designed to lock the Reapers out of those exact controls? And besides, they *need* the relay network up and running so that the rest of the Reaper force throughout the galaxy can move into other systems and continue their work.

 

true but they always don't 

the could just shut the network down and move via FTL for them... it put  galaxy into a war of attrition they  would lose.. 

No relay network 
no reinenforcements
no troop movements
no supply lines 

all things they don't need.   Shutting down the Relays and over ridding the code would have ensured a victory. Its how the Protheans and everyone  else before them lost.

[Jake71887]

Atarun wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...
Same could be said of me I suppose... honestly I've only managed to complete 1 playthrough of DA2(Compared to my 9 playthroughs of DA:O), so I can't really say for sure what she's most like... Just the original impressions she gave. Plus that weird 50's swimsuit underwear thing she had in the romance scene was really off-putting 

The whole concept of having sex with underwear still on bogles my mind. 
I know, I know, it's supposedly for modesty's sake... but then why put a sex scene at all? (Note that I am criticizing 99.99% of Hollywood-like media, not BioWare products )

Another hit against DA2, removing the player mods.. Better sex scenes was awesome:wizard: 

I don't think it's a plot hole. Remember the code Vigil gave Shepard at Ilos specifically designed to lock the Reapers out of those exact controls? And besides, they *need* the relay network up and running so that the rest of the Reaper force throughout the galaxy can move into other systems and continue their work.

That code was only temporary, both vigil and your squadmates confirm this.. And they've managed countless cycles of locking down the relays, why is this one so difficult? I mean sure, they "MIGHT" cut off allies; but they knew the crucible was a threat, and should've outweighed the risk keeping them out of the system.

[xeNNN]

i didnt think about that till i read this...

my god the plot holes....

so many plot holes.... WTH!

[Nefelius]

If the Protheans altered the ability to lock-off all the Relays, then Why did Sovereign even tried to activate it MANUALLY.
The fact that Sovereign did try leads to the conclusion that this ability is still intact. The whole point of ME1 was to stop Sovereign from initializing "Reaper invasion" plan.

TBH my entire walkthrough i was wandering what am i doing at the citadel? How come it still belongs to us?? It's the main point of the Reapers plan, yet they do not bother themselves to wipe everything there and proceed with their plan that...um.... THEY REPEATED FOR BILLIONs OF YEARS.

Modifié par Nefelius, 14 mars 2012 - 02:42 .

[Arl Raylen]

I commented on a thread like this a few days ago, you aren't the first to realize this OP.

[Zhijn]

Didnt Mr. Tim re-activate the Citadel?. Was certain when we were on the Cerberus HQ mission he was already on his way to the Citadel. Still dosnt explain how it got to Earth tho, its massive. xD

Gah im already forgetting bits and pieces from ME3, that cant be a good sign.

Modifié par Zhijn, 14 mars 2012 - 02:42 .