100 réponses à ce sujet

[Zilod]

NTsikuris wrote...

well if you look carefully, most of my spells deal damage and take life. i made this mage based on what i encountered during my playthrough. my mage seemed to always draw attention, so i chose mind blast incase im surrounded. i wanted blizzard early on since it too can handle a great deal of enemies if they surround me, and crushing prison to smash 'em

they are aoe dots (and i love them ) but whitout hexes you kinda gimp your dmg, personally i will go with hex line rather than death one if you are not interested in entropic death combo.. anyway life drain is not that good in the late game and other spells are kinda situational... death cloud is veeery nice, but as you plan to get lightning 3 you dont really need it


storm of the century is a combo of blizzard+tempest+spell might is an huge lightning storm (the effecti is similar to inferno) it have huge radius and very high dmg but sadly it loses the freeze effect from blizzard so you have to compensato for that with other cc

[DragoonKain3]

@Konfeta

You misunderstand the damage formula.



Spell damage is given by the formula (100+ spellpower) * spell damage coeffecient.



Since Spell Might gives 10 + (current spellpower)*0.1 extra spellpower, this means that if you used Spell Might, this is only a 10% increase in damage than if you didn't use it without. Similarly, Spell wisp giving 5 + (current spellpower)*0.05 extra spellpower only really incrrases your spell effectiveness by 5%, but without the mana drain though.

[konfeta]

If you miss Storm you need to learn to aim it.

It has a large enough AoE and high enough damage to literally wipe out an entire camp of enemies before they reach you. It's the license to skip every non-ambush encounter without getting damaged, honestly.

It's even more hilarious when casting it indoor, scout ahead with a Rogue to reveal Fog of War, and fire it off through the wall.

So, still, stacking Wisp/Spellmight is a 15% increase in spell damage. How is that bad? Since mana is unlimited in this game, might as well squeeze every spellpower point you can. Frontloaded damage is all that really matters in terms of a damage oriented mage.

Modifié par konfeta, 28 novembre 2009 - 10:36 .

[NTsikuris]

i dont understand. what is so special about the hex line?

[konfeta]

It reduces enemy resistances, by a lot. I think it's 30% for the first hex, and 20% for the second?

[DragoonKain3]

As for NTsikuris build...

1) Cleansing Aura sucks. Too much mana drain (-10 per tick) for so little healing (0.3 coefficient, that loses strength farther away target it from caster).

2) If you have Death Cloud, don't get Tempest. You're better off using those three points to help you get Death Hex for insane burst damage.

3) I guess its all playstyle, but I personally have no need for an extra set of heals. Wynne's heal/regen/lifeward/group heal is more than enough, especially when you can compensate the rest by using lesser pots if need be. Trust me, the few silver you would save by getting another healer set is not worth the loss in spell progression for your dps mage.

4) If you have a proper tank with taunt, then enemies should rarely be focusing on your mage. And in the rare cases your mage is targetted, you should leave Mind Blast for last since Cone of Cold is more spammable, plus it sets up shatter. That is, if you see a bunch of melee starting to focus on your mage, run back a little bit and once they're all lined up, CoC them, then start shattering.

5) You need anti-caster, especially if you don't plan to get any dispel spells between your mages. As such, I recommend Spell Clash if you're getting Spell Might anyways.

[NTsikuris]

i do have an anti-caster spell. lemme show you my FINAL build. this was after much advice from all of you.



0. arcane bolt

1. winter's grasp, frost weapons

2. cone of cold

3. blizzard

4. mind blast

5. force field

6. telekinetic weapons, crushing prison

7. group heal (spirit healer)

8. revival (spirit healer)

9. vulnerability hex

10. affliction hex

11. misdirection hex

12. lifeward (spirit healer)

13. death hex

14. cleansing aura (spirit healer)

15. mana drain

16. mana cleanse >>>anti-caster spell

17. spell might

18. lightning

19. shock

20. tempest



so you see, im MOSTLY DPS (ice + electricity). but my mage also has debuffs (hexes) and for all those nasty emmisaries (mana cleanse).

so my mage is pretty much a blend...

[DragoonKain3]

Problem with Storm is that enemy has higher resistances in nightmare. Unless you have completely cut them off any route to escape (ex. repulsion glyph on the only doorway), they will run through it easy at nightmare diffuclty.



See, I'm not denying Storm is powerful. What I'm saying is that if you just cast Blizzard + Earthquake and then Tempest once they're frozen, without turning it into Storm, you would have acheived the same effect of killing trash mobs without spending the extra 100 mana, and you would do it much more safely since they will still be frozen. Using Storm and using additional CCs to keep them within the storm is just a waste of mana for essentially the same effect, and you run the risk of friendly fire since you can't effectively judge where Storm's AoE effect is.



Spell Wisp is great. Spell Might on the otherhand is not worth the -4 mana regen I find, because over a 1 minute period, that means 120 mana. Instead of drinking a pot to recover that 120 mana, I could've just started to unloaded another salvo of spells, and only the toughest of bosses will still be standing then.



Spell Might is worth it on bosses you would drink lyrium pots anyway. But if I can finish even Gaxkang w/only spell wisp and not running out of mana or using lyrium pots for the entire fight (and not using spell clash), then the amount of bosses you'd be drinking pots regardless of what you do can be effectively counted in one hand.

[NTsikuris]

im choosing lightning for storm! im choosing it because it gives me more DPS spells.

[NTsikuris]

i mean im not choosing the lightning chain because of storm.

[Forumtroll]

Your last spell point will probably be Spell Wisp. Curse of Mortality does heavy damage if the enemy is cursed up. Also Reanimate, Virulent Walking Bomb, and Mana Clash are wonderful spells. VWB is probably the biggest non-enemy mage burst dps in the game. And Spell Might+Reanimate makes a pet that can crit for 100.

Modifié par Forumtroll, 28 novembre 2009 - 11:18 .

[DragoonKain3]

@OP

Mana Cleanse sucks btw. Since it does not totally remove their mana pool, they can still cast spells. You would've been better off trying to burst them down, considering their crappy hp values. I don't consider Mana Cleanse anti-caster at all, but useless. Spell Clash/Neutralization Glyph/Anti-magic ward on taunt tank on the other hand is anti-caster because it either outright kills the mage, makes them incapabable of casting, or make them use spells that won't affect the target, and as such, anti-mage because it instantly removes them from battle.



Also, my storm comment was for Konfeta, not you.



But if you want more damage spells, replace Tempest line for the Death Cloud Line. More DPS there to be had, especially with Death Hex + Death Cloud combo. I personally took Tempest Line, and I regret taking it since I was going to get Death Cloud anyway.

[NTsikuris]

well you know you could do the death cloud + tempest? its pretty effective i heard.

[konfeta]

they will run through it easy at nightmare diffuclty.

Has yet to happen to me after the first few misses. I found that the only reason to use the smaller AoE over Storm is because the enemy was too close to begin with to set it up. Storm simply never left survivors in my nightmare playthrough. (well, *never* is an exaggeration, but when the strongest thing that comes out once in a blue moon is a 20% HP yellow I think it's a fair one.)

As for Spellmight usage, Spellmight was the difference between killing a bunch of things in 2-3 spells or 3-4 spells. I prefer my enemies to lose as much hp as possible as fast as possible, I find no value in firing off a second set of spells when the first one does the job adequately. Probably a playstyle difference at this point.

Modifié par konfeta, 28 novembre 2009 - 11:46 .

[DragoonKain3]

Spellmight is NOT the difference between 2/3 spells and 3/4 spells. It's the difference between 9/10 spells and 10/11 spells, because all spell might gives is 10% extra power. As such, its a waste for yellows and whites, since they'll fall to the same number of spells with or without spellmight (and wisp at that). Even reds usually fall to less than 10 spells with a max magic mage, and the 120 mana per minute is essentially another Hex+Cloud combo to put in another world of pain if they survive the first one.



And really, all you need is Blizzard to freeze the enemy, something to hold them in blizzard before freeze comes in (earthquake is great), and one more AoE (Tempest or Death Cloud, though VWB works too) to put the finisher while they're frozen. Anymore I find is a waste of mana; sure, you'll kill them faster if you put a third AoE, but since they're frozen anyways, they're already dead once you drop the second AoE and let it run its course.



Also, I did Orzammar and Denerim last, and there, people just ran through my storm even when earthquake was there. I had to put in Repulsion ward in a choke point in order to keep them in the storm, which in Orzammar there is a lot because its essentially a big dungeon. And where there wasn't a choke point (denerims 'ambushes' come to mind), they'll for sure run right through.



And besides, if normal Blizzard + Tempest is enough to kill them, why would you even need to spend 100 extra mana to turn it into Storm?

[konfeta]

Enemy HP does not neatly fold into 9 or 10 spells. If using 2-3 spells leaves a sliver of HP without Spellmight, but kills them outright with Spellmight, it was the difference. I noticed this difference on melee groups when using Fireball and Cone spells.



Storm has much bigger AoE (which also translates to a longer range to fire it from) and will kill a more spread out group. You could stack multiple AoE and hunt down the stragglers, or you could fire Storm and no longer worry about it as the rare stragglers will run to you getting killed by the staff attack.



Honestly, though, at this point, I don't see why we are arguing. Most of the Mage's spells are broken enough to win almost every encounter regardless of minute variations spell damage vs. # of spells fired. Spellmight has it's use - killing things more efficiently at expense of number of total spells you can fire off before having to use a pot. In both cases, the encounter is likely won before you expend your mana bar (i.e. most of the threat is eliminated and you are mopping up).

[Tonya777]

Do the hexes of elemental resistances stack with each other?

[Zilod]

NTsikuris wrote...

i dont understand. what is so special about the hex line?

the big thing of hexes is that they stack on each other and it also seem (but not confirmed) that they are modified by spellpower

putting both res debuff hexes on mobs (well on yellow and orange) i get something like +80% dmg if not more... as you see is quite an huge boost, expecially if you have 2 mages in the party...

if you also get shale as tank his dmg is boosted too by hexes, so you can have 3 chars doing almost x2 dmg than usual

hex of vuln+affliction+entropic death combo makes you hit for 800+ dmg on a decent nuker, 1k for specialized ones... double hexed mana clash basically instapop any normal mage (if he doesnt dispel hexes before mana clash ofc ) i hit for over 2600 dmg with it

so if you are going for a dmg oriented the first 2 hexes are a must to have

[Tonya777]

Are hexes cast time at least like really short or something?

[Zilod]

they are "instant" you have just to raise the staff



give them a try

[Tonya777]

I never got any of them on my 1st mage XD



I figured they would probably waste more mana and take more time to cast than they were worth



But if they are insta cast low mana cost and AoE then they sound good

[Forumtroll]

Curse of Vuln+Curse of Afflict+Curse of Mortality+Virulent Walking Bomb. Try that on an orange mob. I can guarantee you'll drop a boss like the Spider Queen to 45%. Plus the dots tick while it's off screen.

[themaxzero]

If you have Rank 2 combat tactics and Magister Lord staff (which you should get anyway since it rocks) Spell Might's mana drain is completely negated.

[Zaquul]

I had to give my mage Fireball. It may not be the most powerful spell (although it is still good), but graphically it is pure win, and having a flaming Dog is kind of fun too.

[metatrans]

i have a very different notion of how to make a DPS mage. i suppose its my inner min/maxer.



you don't get high DPS just by picking a bunch of damage spells. you don't have the mana to cast them all anyway. you just want a bread and butter spell that you can pump to epic proportions. the itemization in the game supports this idea as well since you can easily stack up the full +50% damage to a specific element. actually you can stack more but it caps at 50.



so you've got 5 elements to choose from: fire, frost, electric, nature, spirit.



right out you can exclude Nature because you don't have any good nature damage spells. your remaining 4 elements give you the following spell selection based on what you chose.



Fire:

Flame Blast - a nice short range damage spell. it ticks 4 times so its actually very high damage over the full duration.

Flame Weapons - only worth using if you've got 2+ melees in the party, but if you do this is good.

Fireball - a truly spectacular spell and a convincing reason to go fire. its both a very high damage AoE nuke and a crowd controlling knockdown. once you get good at aiming in you can event tag guys who are near your group without getting a friendly fire.

Inferno - a very high damage AoE "storm" type spell but it has no controlling elements so its useless without being paired with some other kind of crowd control since mobs just run out of it.



Frost:

Winter's Grasp - a truly excellent single target damage spell. high damage, low mana cost, good range, and some disruptive element to it as well (the freeze is too short to be a true crowd control but it can definitely make enemies way easier to kill).

Frost Weapons - same as Flame Weapons

Cone of Cold - probably the best crowd control spell in the game. also does ok damage. solid gold, the compelling reason to go frost.

Blizzard - a low damage "storm" type AoE. this one however is also a massive AoE crowd controlling spell. this makes it superior to Inferno or any other storm type spell just because it works all by itself, doesn't need a combo. in fact, this one is good to combo with other storms (except Inferno, since Blizzard grants fire resistance).



Electric:

Lightning Bolt - kinda bad single target damage spell. it works and not much resists electric, but its inferior to Winter's Grasp.

Shock - decent short range AoE. its got high burst damage so its a good spell to finish off mobs who are already weakened from earlier attacks. strictly speaking not as efficient as Flame Blast though.

Tempest - a medium damage "storm" AoE. on its own its like a cheaper, less damaging inferno. not so great unless you've got an AoE crowd control to keep mobs in its area. pairs very well with Blizzard though.

Chain Lightning - this is decent but can run into performance issues if enemy formations are too small for it to bounce around alot. Really good as a "safe" AoE when your party is in close with the enemies though. its damage efficiency isn't as high as some a spell like Fireball though.



those are the three primal lines and each is self-contained. the Spirit Element is also a good one to focus on but its main damage spells are a bit more spread around. you can assemble a very nice set of them though if you know what you're looking for.



Spirit:

Arcane Bolt - a very nice single target damage spell. its damage per cast is lower but keep in mind it has a very short cooldown (6 seconds), a very low mana cost (base cost of 15), and a very long range.

Drain Life - another single target damage spell. base damage is bad but it doubles when paired with Vulnerability Hex. Improved Drain has very respectable damage AND it heals you. very good spell.

Crushing Prison - its a high end crowd control with a large spirit DoT component. the DoT sticks on bosses even when the crowd control doesn't work so this is always a good damage spell.

Walking Bomb - damage is big but the spell is awkward.

Death Cloud - another "storm" type AoE. similar in most ways to Inferno. damage is slightly lower but so is the mana cost.







so i'd say you pick one of those elements and back it up by stacking equipment that adds +% element damage. thats a much better way of boosting your output than any amount of spellpower.



finally, you'll need the following support spells to further maximize your damage no matter what you chose as primary element.



Vulnerability Hex and Affliction Hex - these will give pretty massive damage increases. resists can be lowered into the negatives in this game so these always produce bonus damage.

Mind Blast - at some point you'll pull aggro and a mob will charge you. this is where mind blast comes in. this stuns the mob and clears your aggro.

Force Field - highly effective crowd control when used on enemies. but mainly you'll use this on your own tank once he's taunted a crowd. then you drop nukes on top of him while he's immune and surrounded by enemies.

Spell Wisp - this is not worth it for defensive mages who get more out of a deep mana pool. you're not a defensive mage. you like spellpower. this is a good way to get spellpower and its cheap on talent points.

Heal - you don't need the whole Healing line but every mage should have this spell, just in case. particularly useful for sequences where you need to solo (various duels in the game, and also sequences in the Fade).



so you'll notice thats its a fairly light build on talents. you'll get 4 damage spells (somewhat more if you're doing spirit) in your primary element and 6 support spells. you'll have lots left over to diversify your mage later in the game. you can pick up a second element (and probably a second equipment set to swap into when you want to use the other element) or you can pick up some crowd control spells. i'd highly recommend going down the glyph line for that purpose. Glyph of Paralysis is handy on its own and so is Glyph of Repulsion, but together they make Paraylsis Explosion which is just ridiculously good.



the final thing to plan for is staff damage. you don't always need to be spamming nukes. sometimes just light support from the staff is very good. this is particularly true if you went Fire which has no single target nuke and will rely entirely on staff for single target. Staffs benefit from your +% damage gear if the staff is in the right element. the best staves in the game are Frost type and there are almost no Spirit damage staves so keep that in mind when picking your element.





finally, here's a sample build based on Fire as primary element.



Arcane Bolt -> Arcane Shield -> Staff Focus

Flame Blast -> Flaming Weapons -> Fireball -> Inferno

Heal

Spell Wisp

Glyph of Paralysis -> Glyph of Warding -> Glyph of Repulsion -> Glyph of Nullification

Mind Blast -> Forcefield

Vulnerability Hex -> Affliction Hex



thats 17 talent points. it can probably be completed sometime between level 12-14 depending on how many spell talent books you buy. you can develop different endgame talent lines if you like. i'd probably go and get Crushing Prison or Disorient->Horror->Sleep to get some more crowd control. or maybe develop Frost as a secondary element.



recommended equipment for this build:



Cinderfel Gauntlets (http://www.gamebansh...AO_Items.id=154)



Ring of Faith (http://www.gamebansh...AO_Items.id=780)



Ember (http://www.gamebansh...AO_Items.id=301)



Charm of Flame (http://www.gamebansh...AO_Items.id=139)



Torch of Embers (http://www.gamebansh...O_Items.id=1011)



those 5 items get you the full +50% fire damage.



the remaining slots can be used for just about anything. probably look mostly for items that boost spellpower and willpower.