202 réponses à ce sujet

[ZeroCrewX]

Casey Hudson : "So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it."

BULL****.

[Shadowace15617]

ael00 wrote...

me3 sold about 4 million copies on the first week, including preorders.

about 15,000 signed the petition to change the ending.

Now do do math. Would you care as a developer if 99% of the customers were satisfied ?? Why the hell would you change something commercially succesfull because of the 1% who didn't get the dream ending they wanted ?

I didn't fancy the ending too much either, but it wasn't bad.

Not everyone uses these forums so while you cant say the others are for the issue you can't say they are against it either.

[Karlojey]

Itkovian wrote...

Do not mistake the vocal groups here and on the itnernet as the entirety (or even majority) of the Fan Base.

Nor are you entitled to a response beyond what you got. Their artistic vision led them to make the endings they did, and that's that.

And really, the theme of the entire bloody game is Heroic Sacrifice. Seems to me the endings fit that theme extremely well.

Furthermore, regardless of what they do, there will always be people angry about it. I for one am glad they decided on something as daring.

Itkovian

I haven't finished the game yet as I'm in the middle of playing a new Shepard through the trilogy but my take on the outburst of fans is that the choices at the end made no sense. We were given choices at the end but it has nothing to do with what we've been throughout the game.

It probably has been mentioned before but take for example Dragon Age: Origins. That one had the "Heroic Sacrifice" option as well but at least the player has the option to get a different ending depending on their choices during the game if they're not comfortable seeing their Warden go through that.

[Tang McGame]

Itkovian wrote...
And really, the theme of the entire bloody game is Heroic Sacrifice. Seems to me the endings fit that theme extremely well.

Again, that's not what people are upset about.  I won't bother restating it because if you don't understand the complaint at this point then you're trying really, really hard not to.

On topic, Casey Hudson wants the game and its ending to be remembered, which is all well and good, but does he want it to be remembered for this?  I doubt it.  People want their endings remembered for being thought-provoking or satisfying, not filled with holes, inappropriate and undermining 100+ hours of gameplay that came before it.  Also, the endings aren't different for everyone.  They're almost identical.

The questions he's answered about it have been corporate spin sideways talk where you pretend evertything that happened is exactly what you wanted to happen.  I wish we could get a genuine answer but I understand why we won't.

Modifié par Tang McGame, 14 mars 2012 - 01:48 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Because they are afraid sales of ME3 will tank if they admit there's a problem. They did same thing with DA2, it didn't stop the sales tanking however.

[sheppard7]

lordhugorune wrote...

Cyberarmy wrote...

That 4-5 is actually is 39439 people "for now"
http://social.biowar...606/polls/28989

I don't really like that poll, because to me the problem wasn't that the ending was "dark". I personally think it was appropriate that it was dark, it's a mature game after all and we're not kids, right?
The problem was that the ending was incomplete.

While I didn't like the endings I couldn't vote in that poll because my real feelings wasn't expressed as an option.

[sheppard7]

Shadowace15617 wrote...

ael00 wrote...

me3 sold about 4 million copies on the first week, including preorders.

about 15,000 signed the petition to change the ending.

Now do do math. Would you care as a developer if 99% of the customers were satisfied ?? Why the hell would you change something commercially succesfull because of the 1% who didn't get the dream ending they wanted ?

I didn't fancy the ending too much either, but it wasn't bad.

Not everyone uses these forums so while you cant say the others are for the issue you can't say they are against it either.

And some people have more than one copy. And the ending is making it hard to finish the game on the other platform. Now I hate the fact they gave ME2 on PC free to all DA2 buyers or I would have just gotten ME3 on console and be done with it.

[Raniall]

Here is the problem. Everyone seems to think that they are making a lot of noise, where in actuality if you consider the 3.5 million units sold, you need 35,000 people alone just to hit 1%. You need 350,000 people complaining to hit 10%. Even if you take the 1,000 or so people who have donated to the charity and multiply that by 100, your still only sitting at a little over 100,00 you're still only looking at roughly 3%.

Simply put, Bioware has not responded because they have not seen a large enough number to make it worth it. I imagine they planned for some level of backlash for this decision so unless outcries climb into the millions, I'm not holding my breath for change.

[jeweledleah]

Itkovian wrote...
And really, the theme of the entire bloody game is Heroic Sacrifice. Seems to me the endings fit that theme extremely well.

except the theme seems to be actualy "overcoming impossible odds and coming out triumphant?

ME1.  one little ship agains the flotilla of Geth and a sentient Ship.  a band of 40 people highjacking said ship to head off to a planet outside council space, chasing down a rogue spectre, decimating his army of Geth along the way, singlehandeldy opening up Citadel for acess again and Single handedly making Saren voulnurable enough to attack.. and THEN surviving a reaper limb falling on top of them, heroicaly climbing out from the wreckage.

ME2.  getting ressurected from a condition of meat and tubes, after falling through the atmosphere, and then getting together a crew of 12 (10 without DLC's) motley individuals, who in some cases hate each other and yet getting them to work together and destroying an entire reaper servant SPECIES with those 12 individuals.  and even coming out from it with no casualties if you do everything right.

ME3.  Shepard must united the Galaxy, get species to forget their old feuds in order to create a force strong enough to defend the reapers.  and without going into spoilers- it IS in fact possible to get old enemies working together against a comon foe.  see where I'm going with this?  the theme is not sacrifice.  the theme is victory against all expectation.  and this is the feeling you get throughout the game, that you will get this victory.  Even when the iffy part begins, you still retain that feeling.  and then in a last 10 minutes or so?  the game abruptly changes tone, discards ALL of your prior choices as well as the lore of the game. and gives you a catch-22 of an ending.

and now they give a non-answer and a few cryptic tweets.  as a for profit company they should know that its easy to lose customers, especialy when they have other gaming options and relatively limited funds.  its easy to push costumer patience past its limit and when trust is broken, its hard to regain. hell, even within their own game, they adress an issue of broken trust.  they should have known, based on fans' reactions to horizon that majority of them are not a forgiving bunch.

and why do these vocal fans matter?  becasue they are the ones that preorder, they are the ones that buy other merchandise, like hoodies and litho's and action figures, they are the ones that shell out for DLC's.  they are the core audience.  Bioware has implemented things into their games with much smaller demand (how big is FFTL group anyways, what couple of 1000?). romances, references, general changes...  This here?  this needs a better responce then "artistic integrity"  especialy when the last thing you see when you finish a game is a little screen telling you "buy more DLC!"

@ pooter - pardon, I misread your original post, I thought you were talking about some other interview.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 14 mars 2012 - 02:24 .

[veramis]

Raniall, you know, all your numbers are made up right? It's 3.5 million shipped to stores, about 1 million sold first week. Instead of randomly guessing at how many people are complaining or guessing the magic number which will make bioware do something, just look at the polls of how unhappy people are about the endings.

[Raniall]

veramis wrote...

Raniall, you know, all your numbers are made up right? It's 3.5 million shipped to stores, about 1 million sold first week. Instead of randomly guessing at how many people are complaining or guessing the magic number which will make bioware do something, just look at the polls of how unhappy people are about the endings.

No need to be rude. I'm sorry if you feel the need to get defensive. You find me a poll with a decent number of followers and we'll discuss it. The FB page for changing the ending only has 25k people on it, again compared to the 1 million first week sales. I mean, what polls and gauges are we going to use then?

As I stated, people are up in arms and Bioware had to know it was going to happen with this ending. I'm not defending or attacking them, I'm simply answering the OP's question that Bioware is not responding because there simply is not enough angry people. You have to consider the idea that many of those who are angry express their opinion on multiple forums, on multiple polls, etc, to get their point across.

[Transgirlgamer]

I'm pretty sure we'll hear something before the PAX east panel on April 6th as I doubt Bioware want their employees lynched before they get to make the announcement. I'd guess that the original plan was for whatever this is leading up to to be announced then, but after the backlash here, and let's face it we're the types of fans who attend these panels for the most part, I think they'll give us something before that. Of course I still think they'll wait untill after the Japanese release before they say anything.

[kbct]

Raniall wrote...

veramis wrote...

Raniall, you know, all your numbers are made up right? It's 3.5 million shipped to stores, about 1 million sold first week. Instead of randomly guessing at how many people are complaining or guessing the magic number which will make bioware do something, just look at the polls of how unhappy people are about the endings.

No need to be rude. I'm sorry if you feel the need to get defensive. You find me a poll with a decent number of followers and we'll discuss it. The FB page for changing the ending only has 25k people on it, again compared to the 1 million first week sales. I mean, what polls and gauges are we going to use then?

As I stated, people are up in arms and Bioware had to know it was going to happen with this ending. I'm not defending or attacking them, I'm simply answering the OP's question that Bioware is not responding because there simply is not enough angry people. You have to consider the idea that many of those who are angry express their opinion on multiple forums, on multiple polls, etc, to get their point across.

veramis wrote that because the other guy was ignorant. Clearly, you don't everyone to actually voice their opinion. You only need a sample. There are plenty of samples here to help us infer what the population of owners that have completed the game are thinking.

[sheppard7]

Raniall wrote...

veramis wrote...

Raniall, you know, all your numbers are made up right? It's 3.5 million shipped to stores, about 1 million sold first week. Instead of randomly guessing at how many people are complaining or guessing the magic number which will make bioware do something, just look at the polls of how unhappy people are about the endings.

No need to be rude. I'm sorry if you feel the need to get defensive. You find me a poll with a decent number of followers and we'll discuss it. The FB page for changing the ending only has 25k people on it, again compared to the 1 million first week sales. I mean, what polls and gauges are we going to use then?

As I stated, people are up in arms and Bioware had to know it was going to happen with this ending. I'm not defending or attacking them, I'm simply answering the OP's question that Bioware is not responding because there simply is not enough angry people. You have to consider the idea that many of those who are angry express their opinion on multiple forums, on multiple polls, etc, to get their point across.

That's not sales to 1 million people though. Some have more than 1 copy. And seeing how some people on eBay are selling multiple copies by the same seller, that also shows not 1 million different people.

Modifié par sheppard7, 14 mars 2012 - 02:52 .

[veramis]

Raniall, I don't mean to be offensive, just that there's really nothing to conclude about the issue except that of the polls we have on this forum that a good percentage of people aren't happy with the way the endings were written or implemented, or both. We can't know for sure how much backlash is necessary for bioware to change the endings, but we can be certain that there's a lot of unhappy people based on customer reviews/opinions on internet forums, metacritic and amazon etc, and that we can't simply make a statement as to what % of angry customers is significant or enough to make bioware act.

[kbct]

sheppard7 wrote...

Raniall wrote...

veramis wrote...

Raniall, you know, all your numbers are made up right? It's 3.5 million shipped to stores, about 1 million sold first week. Instead of randomly guessing at how many people are complaining or guessing the magic number which will make bioware do something, just look at the polls of how unhappy people are about the endings.

No need to be rude. I'm sorry if you feel the need to get defensive. You find me a poll with a decent number of followers and we'll discuss it. The FB page for changing the ending only has 25k people on it, again compared to the 1 million first week sales. I mean, what polls and gauges are we going to use then?

As I stated, people are up in arms and Bioware had to know it was going to happen with this ending. I'm not defending or attacking them, I'm simply answering the OP's question that Bioware is not responding because there simply is not enough angry people. You have to consider the idea that many of those who are angry express their opinion on multiple forums, on multiple polls, etc, to get their point across.

That's not sales to 1 million people though. Some have more than 1 copy. And seeing how some people on eBay are selling multiple copies by the same seller, that also shows not 1 million different people.

Yes, and then you have to estimate how many of the 1 million that purchased the game have finished it. 400,000?

It's easy to turn that 3.5 million shipped units number into a much smaller number when think about how many people have actually finished the game and have an opinion about the ending.

A poll with 40K+ voters has very significant predictive power.

Modifié par kbct, 14 mars 2012 - 03:03 .

[sheppard7]

kbct wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

Raniall wrote...

veramis wrote...

Raniall, you know, all your numbers are made up right? It's 3.5 million shipped to stores, about 1 million sold first week. Instead of randomly guessing at how many people are complaining or guessing the magic number which will make bioware do something, just look at the polls of how unhappy people are about the endings.

No need to be rude. I'm sorry if you feel the need to get defensive. You find me a poll with a decent number of followers and we'll discuss it. The FB page for changing the ending only has 25k people on it, again compared to the 1 million first week sales. I mean, what polls and gauges are we going to use then?

As I stated, people are up in arms and Bioware had to know it was going to happen with this ending. I'm not defending or attacking them, I'm simply answering the OP's question that Bioware is not responding because there simply is not enough angry people. You have to consider the idea that many of those who are angry express their opinion on multiple forums, on multiple polls, etc, to get their point across.

That's not sales to 1 million people though. Some have more than 1 copy. And seeing how some people on eBay are selling multiple copies by the same seller, that also shows not 1 million different people.

Yes, and then you have to estimate how many of the 1 million that purchased the game have finished it. 400,000?

It's easy to turn that 3.5 million shipped units number into a much smaller number when think about how many people have actually finished the game and have an opinion about the ending.

A poll with 40K+ voters has very significant predictive power.

And the rapid drop in price for the CE on eBay shows it's not in such a high demand as it was prior to release and the first couple of days after release. If not for the endings, those would still be selling for about 200 USD.

Plus local gamestops still have CE's because of cancels. Go to GS site for it and do the check available. All GS got was what the stores had for preorders as I tried to change my local one but they wouldn't so I did it online.

Modifié par sheppard7, 14 mars 2012 - 03:12 .

[djarlaks10]

Raniall wrote...

Here is the problem. Everyone seems to think that they are making a lot of noise, where in actuality if you consider the 3.5 million units sold, you need 35,000 people alone just to hit 1%. You need 350,000 people complaining to hit 10%. Even if you take the 1,000 or so people who have donated to the charity and multiply that by 100, your still only sitting at a little over 100,00 you're still only looking at roughly 3%.

Simply put, Bioware has not responded because they have not seen a large enough number to make it worth it. I imagine they planned for some level of backlash for this decision so unless outcries climb into the millions, I'm not holding my breath for change.

The thing is, the people who voted there are one of the most die-hard BW fans, the fans that always support the company, the ones that the company needs while experiencing some kind of problems. For example, I used to be a BW fan since Kotor and used to defend them even when they made some not-so-good desicions, but now I just don't give a **** about their future titles and I'm sure not going to buy them, and I think more people have similar thoughts. 

[kbct]

djarlaks10 wrote...

The thing is, the people who voted there are one of the most die-hard BW fans, the fans that always support the company, the ones that the company needs while experiencing some kind of problems.

That's a good point.

The casual gamers are going to influenced by word of mouth and reviews. Metacritic and Amazon have terrible user reviews.

Modifié par kbct, 14 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[ognick23]

here ya go complainers this is the closest your gonna get take it or leave it

http://www.computera...ic-over-ending/

[korni789]

kbct wrote...


That's a good point.

The casual gamers are going to influenced by word of mouth and reviews. Metacritic and Amazon have terrible user reviews.

I can only add that word of mouth and reviews are influenced by die hard fans. 50k fans can easly destroy any PR machine by making a lot of negative noise about the game. And it is starting to happen in case of Mass Effect 3. If you type it in google you will find a lot of news about crappy ending. 
http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

Modifié par korni789, 14 mars 2012 - 03:34 .

[kbct]

ognick23 wrote...

here ya go complainers this is the closest your gonna get take it or leave it

http://www.computera...ic-over-ending/

If you spent a moment to read, you would know your link talks about the article in the second post of this thread.

[Wise Men]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Daiyus wrote...

My question is: Why should they have to? I'm not defending BioWare's story in the slightest, I'm sure when I see the endings I'll be annoyed. But if an author releases a book and the fans don't like the ending it's tough s**t. They don't recall them and reprint, they don't HAVE to release another book to "correct" the ending. Same with film series. So why should games be so different? OK, we don't like the endings, but does that really ruin everything else (read, 100's of hours of fun) to that point?

-Your question is funny. Because authors do. At least in one case they retracted a book. And in what setting was that? Thats right... the very same setting we are playing. The Latest ME novel was such a load of crap that it got retracted and recinded as lore.

That recall was because of actual mistakes, not because some people didn't "like" how it ended. 

Daiyus.  I agree with you.  But don't just jump on the band wagon by setting your perception based on what others are saying.  You don't need to proclaim.."I'm sure when I see the endings I'll be annoyed".  Dude, just play the game and form your own opinion.  You don't need to aplogize for keeping an open mind (If I have offended you by incorrectly assuming your intent, pleas accept my aplogies). 

Game on!

[Wise Men]

ognick23 wrote...

here ya go complainers this is the closest your gonna get take it or leave it

http://www.computera...ic-over-ending/

This is a good read.  The heading is "Mass Effect 3 game director unapologetic over ending".  Did people expect it to read "Mass Effect 3 game director admits his mistakes and will change the ending for upset gamers". 

Funny.