202 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiery Phoenix]

They haven't responded because the game is still a brand new release. Jessica has time and again said that.

Just because you were lucky enough to get your hands on the game and play/finish it so early doesn't mean everyone else has. Lots of people have yet to even play it, let alone complete their first playthrough. Not to mention ME3 was released in Japan literally less than 24 hours ago.

Give it time. I'd say 2-4 more weeks down the road until we get some sort of response. But it's going to happen eventually and that's all that should matter to us.

[Ronin1325]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

They haven't responded because the game is still a brand new release. Jessica has time and again said that.

Just because you were lucky enough to get your hands on the game and play/finish it so early doesn't mean everyone else has. Lots of people have yet to even play it, let alone complete their first playthrough. Not to mention ME3 was released in Japan literally less than 24 hours ago.

Give it time. I'd say 2-4 more weeks down the road until we get some sort of response. But it's going to happen eventually and that's all that should matter to us.

Very well could be Fiery Phoenix. I've been paying attention to all aspects of this situation since the day before the game was released (good thing my wife is a gamer or she'd be having a fit). I agree that Bioware is biding their time, waiting for the Asian market to play through the game before they make *any* kind of statement.

I won't go into the details as many on the spoiler threads have done so far better than I could, but having researched the issue in depth (and having had the advantage of reading the canon books), I am now almost sure that the Indoctrination Theory concerning the endings is correct, and that Bioware convinced EA to take a gigantic gamble on making an ending that will knock us all for a loop.

As I've said before, I'm very willing to eat all of my complaints publicly if this is true. And if it's true they planned this, then I'm almost sure as well that they will release any DLC concerning 'Indoctrination' free. If they do, they'll be heralded as Gaming Gods & will turn all this lead into gold. If they charge for it, or what we have for an ending is all there is, they will be toast.

[die-yng]

I still can't get over the fact that they really thought only giving us the choice of whatever you chose means sh#t to the end result would sit well with fans.

Yes, from an artsy point of view, there may just be some validity in the endings, but even when you consider this, they are flawed, illogical,their defeatist attitude goes against everything that went before and they have plot holes big enough to fly a dreadnought through.

And computer games are only in a very restricted way a work of art. The same way that Transformers or the latest action flick is a form of art.

You can't give a game the equvalent of an indie drama ending and expect it to fare well.

Yes, critics may love it, but no way are tens of millions going to stream into the cinemas.


And that is my point even if they are planning a dlc, because mayn people won't forget theri anger and disappointment, even if...

Modifié par die-yng, 15 mars 2012 - 12:00 .

[kbct]

IanPolaris wrote...

Rrezz wrote...

I'm sorry, Bioware can't hear you over the sound of their 1.85 Million sales in the first week.

You mean 1.85 million SHIPPED (or Sold-In).  If you think this is the end-all be-all, think again.  DA2 also had spectacular first week sales before the game sank like a stone.

-Polaris

IanPolaris, you still know your stuff. It's nice to listen to someone that knows their facts. Any ideas where I can find more facts about shipped and sales figures?

By the way, I'm pretty sure you played SpellForce 2.

[kbct]

Ronin1325 wrote...

I won't go into the details as many on the spoiler threads have done so far better than I could, but having researched the issue in depth (and having had the advantage of reading the canon books), I am now almost sure that the Indoctrination Theory concerning the endings is correct, and that Bioware convinced EA to take a gigantic gamble on making an ending that will knock us all for a loop.

I think the indoctrination/hallucination theory gives BioWare a reasonable way to write themselves out of this mess, but I don't think it was planned from the beginning. If it were, it would have been a colossal mistake to remain silent about it while the fans burned down the internet.

The damage has been done. The negative reviews are out there and they can only be partially salvaged now. The word of mouth has spread so fast that everyone and their brother knows about the ending.

Not all people are going to forgive BioWare for ending the trilogy with a DLC. Still, I think an acknowledgement from them and a new ending DLC will go a long way in mitigating the damages.

[ZeroCrewX]

Ronin1325 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

They haven't responded because the game is still a brand new release. Jessica has time and again said that.

Just because you were lucky enough to get your hands on the game and play/finish it so early doesn't mean everyone else has. Lots of people have yet to even play it, let alone complete their first playthrough. Not to mention ME3 was released in Japan literally less than 24 hours ago.

Give it time. I'd say 2-4 more weeks down the road until we get some sort of response. But it's going to happen eventually and that's all that should matter to us.

Very well could be Fiery Phoenix. I've been paying attention to all aspects of this situation since the day before the game was released (good thing my wife is a gamer or she'd be having a fit). I agree that Bioware is biding their time, waiting for the Asian market to play through the game before they make *any* kind of statement.

I won't go into the details as many on the spoiler threads have done so far better than I could, but having researched the issue in depth (and having had the advantage of reading the canon books), I am now almost sure that the Indoctrination Theory concerning the endings is correct, and that Bioware convinced EA to take a gigantic gamble on making an ending that will knock us all for a loop.

As I've said before, I'm very willing to eat all of my complaints publicly if this is true. And if it's true they planned this, then I'm almost sure as well that they will release any DLC concerning 'Indoctrination' free. If they do, they'll be heralded as Gaming Gods & will turn all this lead into gold. If they charge for it, or what we have for an ending is all there is, they will be toast.

Agree on all points except one, they wont be heralded as gaming gods. Not by the fans anyway, see thing about loyal fans is that when they're screwed over they NEVER forget it. 

I've said this before, they either do what you say they will and salvage part of the situation, or don't do anything and burn to the ground. It's as simple as that, people are already throwing their copies of mass effect 3 in the trash.. which while drastic - is the kind of reaction I'd expect!

So what happens when bioware releases this ending dlc and comes clean? What of those who threw away their games in disapointment? How will they feel? I'll tell you how, they'll feel that not only did Bioware trick them in such a horrible way, the effects of that caused them to no longer be able to even check out the new endings...

We're talking about a massive ****storm either way.. at least if they fix it most people will cool down, but either way mate they WILL lose a lot of customers.. Shouldn't have pulled such a horrible move on their fans, not even for publicity - as you claim you believe they did.

I also would like to mention that most people can't see further than their noses, this isnt just about us getting a worthy ending, this whole fight is about gamer rights - think about it, we're already getting attention - be it negative mind you, some people from sites etc are starting to see that maybe this fight isnt about being spoiled fanboys, its about something more...

Sure our focus are the endings, but much more hangs in the balance... 

Modifié par ZeroCrewX, 15 mars 2012 - 01:49 .

[gunsagogo]

Theres not much they can say. Half are having a fit and nothing would satisfy them, some feel outright cheated, no matter what free DLC/apologies are given, and the rest just wouldn't be content with what they would have to say.

[dfstone]

The blacklash has gotten so overtop ridiculous, I mean donations? Seriously? I wouldn't pay attention either if I were them. A lot of the people in these threads sound like they are freakin crazy.

[ZeroCrewX]

Can't believe I actually thought the team that was making mass effect wasn't like the one that made DA2.... Such an idiot... Everyone is the same and no-one gives a **** about the fans... These arent nerds or geeks or game-lovers, these are corporate men. And we all know what corporate really means.

The only silver lining is we got to enjoy some awesome voice acting by some people, everything else it seems - wasn't worth anything more than spit,

Thanks Bioware!

[ZeroCrewX]

dfstone wrote...

The blacklash has gotten so overtop ridiculous, I mean donations? Seriously? I wouldn't pay attention either if I were them. A lot of the people in these threads sound like they are freakin crazy.

What's wrong with donations? You got a problem with us fighting for something we need and in the process helping kids? How mature and humane of you, GTFO.

Yeah you wouldnt pay attention, I bet you and Bioware have the donation problem in common then? Would make a lot of sense to be honest. Gratz!

Modifié par ZeroCrewX, 15 mars 2012 - 01:57 .

[kbct]

dfstone wrote...

The blacklash has gotten so overtop ridiculous, I mean donations? Seriously? I wouldn't pay attention either if I were them. A lot of the people in these threads sound like they are freakin crazy.

"The community has been articulate, considerate, and for the most part extremely respectful and smart with how it is providing its feedback. And a large portion of those dissatisfied with the ME3 endings are cautioning others to keep the criticism constructive, to be respectful to the developers, and to remain civil in their arguments. I appreciate that a great deal, and I thank you and the rest of our community for that."  --Stanley Woo (3/15/12)

People have been saying the backlash "has gotten so over-the-top ridiculous" since the first person didn't like the ending and the first person asked for a DLC fix. Some things never change.

Personally, I think it's hard to hate on a charity. The money literally goes to disadvantaged kids.

[Br0th3rGr1mm]

kbct wrote...

I think the indoctrination/hallucination theory gives BioWare a reasonable way to write themselves out of this mess, but I don't think it was planned from the beginning. If it were, it would have been a colossal mistake to remain silent about it while the fans burned down the internet.

The damage has been done. The negative reviews are out there and they can only be partially salvaged now. The word of mouth has spread so fast that everyone and their brother knows about the ending.

Not all people are going to forgive BioWare for ending the trilogy with a DLC. Still, I think an acknowledgement from them and a new ending DLC will go a long way in mitigating the damages.

You have completely missed the point here.  You percieve this issue as MUCH larger than it really is (magnified by your fan-specs).  Back off for a second and consider the best way to generate sales for a DLC 6 months after you release a game....the smoldering ashes of an internet fire WON'T be forgotten (by your own words) and even the most POed fan out there will plunk down the $ eventually to experience the new ending.

I'm not saying it's going to happen or even speculate about it being planned up front, but this kind of thing HAS happened before in game history (Fallout 3) and it worked out pretty well for everyone involved.

The bottom line here is that if they provide an entertainment experience people are willing to pay for, MUCH will be forgiven and forgotten. 

[InvincibleHero]

BobSmith101 wrote...

I think they are in shock all around. ME3 pulled in under 1 million in day 1 US sales.That's not any great improvement on any other Bioware IP. Even worse when you consider the ammount of advertising and backscratching EA has been doing. Those numbers were below the VG pre-order numbers btw so maybe the day 1 DLC did cost them.

This was also before the real ****storm of the endings hit and all the Amazon/MC user ratings took a dive towards the toilet.

It's not quite what they were expecting from their flagship title.

Well there is still a recession that has hit the whole video game market to the tune of -20% for Feb. So numbers this big are good.  http://finance.yahoo...-205534711.html

[Kelarq]

Bioware are concerned only with sales at this point; if they admit that they screwed up, any potential consumers won't buy the game until the 'fix' comes. They'll hold the line for a few weeks (I wouldn't be surprised at a PAX reveal).

The only way that situation changes is if the backlash becomes too negative, and they experience a huge drop in sales over the next week.

The other danger is with websites like IGN. Despite the fact that most of the community has been articulate and respectful in their arguments, most websites are vilifying us and championing ME3's ending. If Bioware do speak out on the matter, and it's not done in the right way, they'll criticize Bioware for 'caving in to fan demands'.

[The Razman]

Here's an idea, just throwing it out there ...

Because the fanbase doesn't care what Bioware has to say. Even the mere rumour that Bioware are to make an announcement about the endings has always been met by shouts of "I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY I'M GOING TO HATE IT NO MATTER WHAT" (I know that sounds like exaggerating, but I've been reading the spoilers forum and it really isn't).

What's the point in talking to people who don't care about what you have to say?

[die-yng]

I think it's funny, that the people protesting against the ending do it in a much more civilized manner than those who don't want them to do so.

Most of them behave like the worst of trolls and their statements are bordering on hystrionics.

[philippe willaume]

die-yng wrote...

I still can't get over the fact that they really thought only giving us the choice of whatever you chose means sh#t to the end result would sit well with fans.

Yes, from an artsy point of view, there may just be some validity in the endings, but even when you consider this, they are flawed, illogical,their defeatist attitude goes against everything that went before and they have plot holes big enough to fly a dreadnought through.

And computer games are only in a very restricted way a work of art. The same way that Transformers or the latest action flick is a form of art.

You can't give a game the equvalent of an indie drama ending and expect it to fare well.

Yes, critics may love it, but no way are tens of millions going to stream into the cinemas.


And that is my point even if they are planning a dlc, because mayn people won't forget theri anger and disappointment, even if...

I thing we need to make the distinction between artistic direction and deleivery of the active realisation.
You would not have a different ending to "im westen nichts neues" would you?
If Bioware wants to give us a darker ending, we don't really have ground to complain. This is their story.

However that direction needs to take in account the different possible play through. This is where the difference with other from of arts lies.
The franchise is famous has that very instalment has advertised that your decisions will influence the outcome.
So the telling how we arrive to end result the author wants is up to the play-through,  In a way the player artistic direction.

What do i mean?
is that you can arrive the same end result as the artistic direction requires and still take care of the customer's in game choices.

So at the very  least with the present options, the conversation should drive to us to get the choice of the color according to our actions. either through dialogue and giving alternative option or by limiting the option according to the play-through.
Since the actual 3 endings are the same regardless what you did and each will match only a limited set of play though.

It is borderline on the artistic direction but I think some play through would require an option to tell the God child to shove it where sun does not shine.
So we can still get the same state of devastation on technological leap back and go and die with your squad mate (paragon) or leave with you LI and have the Normandy cut scene and let galaxy go to pot (renegade)


Phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 15 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[cyborg2501]

I find it troubling that people can be so shortsighted. It's perfectly fine to be discontent with the endings as they are, but it's painfully obvious that they weren't meant to be the final endings. It's probably a combination of reasons why they did it - crunched timelines, business decisions, leaked scripts, ambitious storytelling, the desire to make the ending memorable. There was probably some "taking lemons and making lemonade". Either way, I doubt they were expecting such a negative backlash and were hoping for a bit more intrigue from the fans. How they handle the release of the ending will be very important at this point.

People keep hating on Bioware because they are doing something that *has never been done before*. Is this something we want to encourage or discourage? We should be encouraging game developers to take more creative risks. Don't let all the negativity keep you from enjoying what will be one of the most memorable and unique metagaming experiences of recent history. As a gamer I'm almost proud to bear witness to it.

[InvincibleHero]

philippe willaume wrote...
I thing we need to make the distinction between artistic direction and deleivery of the active realisation.
You would not have a different ending to "im westen nichts neues" would you?
If Bioware wants to give us a darker ending, we don't really have ground to complain. This is their story.

However that direction needs to take in account the different possible play through. This is where the difference with other from of arts lies.
The franchise is famous has that very instalment has advertised that your decisions will influence the outcome.
So the telling how we arrive to end result the author wants is up to the play-through,  In a way the player artistic direction.

What do i mean?
is that you can arrive the same end result as the artistic direction requires and still take care of the customer's in game choices.

So at the very  least with the present options, the conversation should drive to us to get the choice of the color according to our actions. either through dialogue and giving alternative option or by limiting the option according to the play-through.
Since the actual 3 endings are the same regardless what you did and each will match only a limited set of play though.

It is borderline on the artistic direction but I think some play through would require an option to tell the God child to shove it where sun does not shine.
So we can still get the same state of devastation on technological leap back and go and die with your squad mate (paragon) or leave with you LI and have the Normandy cut scene and let galaxy go to pot (renegade)


Phil

I empathize that people didn't get what they want but people have the wrong idea. There is no promise you would have choices at the end that make sense to you and fulfill all your needs. Indeed most games have just one end. BW could have made one ending even as they gave you choices throughout the game. There should be no expectation to what they should give us as an ending except how they wanted to end it. They cannot and should not cover any eventuality that someone could dream up. Even if they had 10 unique endings some people would still be unhappy. BW has to to the cost vs. benefit analysis and they came up with what they did. People should let their anger go and accept that BW has a right to make their product how they wish for many reasons financial, artistic, story,  universe building for future games, and many they can't say. No one seems to care one whit about BW/EA and their needs in the situation. No it is all about me, me, me and not the game.

[The Razman]

die-yng wrote...

I think it's funny, that the people protesting against the ending do it in a much more civilized manner than those who don't want them to do so.

Most of them behave like the worst of trolls and their statements are bordering on hystrionics.

To be fair, as one of the people saying they don't want them to do so, I was a lot more "civilized" about it a few days ago when this all started. As time goes on, and you hear the same worn out, tired, entitled arguments over and over and over, no matter how many times you refute them, and more people just come in saying the same thing over and over, and then you get called a troll for disagreeing with the majority, and then you get called stupid for disagreeing with the majority, and then you hear the same thing over and over and over and over and over ...

You get ... let's say, frustrated? And your ability to stay calm the twentieth time you've typed the same response starts to wear thin.

So yeah ... sorry about that, but it's quite understandable.

[ironcreed2]

Instead of giving proper closure to the series that leaves you feeling satisfied as the credits rolled, they chose to end it in a way that makes people want to buy DLC. While many of us will refuse, it will sadly work for the most part.

[kbct]

The Razman wrote...

To be fair, as one of the people saying they don't want them to do so, I was a lot more "civilized" about it a few days ago when this all started. As time goes on, and you hear the same worn out, tired, entitled arguments over and over and over, no matter how many times you refute them, and more people just come in saying the same thing over and over, and then you get called a troll for disagreeing with the majority, and then you get called stupid for disagreeing with the majority, and then you hear the same thing over and over and over and over and over ...

You repeat yourself ad nauseam too, Razman.

Modifié par kbct, 15 mars 2012 - 02:42 .

[ZeroCrewX]

InvincibleHero wrote...

 There is no promise you would have choices at the end that make sense to you and fulfill all your needs.

Let me stop you right here.

WRONG.

There were hundrets of promises.

Bye.

[The Razman]

kbct wrote...

The Razman wrote...

To be fair, as one of the people saying they don't want them to do so, I was a lot more "civilized" about it a few days ago when this all started. As time goes on, and you hear the same worn out, tired, entitled arguments over and over and over, no matter how many times you refute them, and more people just come in saying the same thing over and over, and then you get called a troll for disagreeing with the majority, and then you get called stupid for disagreeing with the majority, and then you hear the same thing over and over and over and over and over ...

You repeat yourself ad naseum too, Razman.

Indeed. As responses, though. I'm not going into every thread, no matter what the topic is meant to be, and stating the same thing over and over.

[kbct]

Br0th3rGr1mm wrote...

kbct wrote...

I think the indoctrination/hallucination theory gives BioWare a reasonable way to write themselves out of this mess, but I don't think it was planned from the beginning. If it were, it would have been a colossal mistake to remain silent about it while the fans burned down the internet.

The damage has been done. The negative reviews are out there and they can only be partially salvaged now. The word of mouth has spread so fast that everyone and their brother knows about the ending.

Not all people are going to forgive BioWare for ending the trilogy with a DLC. Still, I think an acknowledgement from them and a new ending DLC will go a long way in mitigating the damages.

You have completely missed the point here.  You percieve this issue as MUCH larger than it really is (magnified by your fan-specs).  Back off for a second and consider the best way to generate sales for a DLC 6 months after you release a game....the smoldering ashes of an internet fire WON'T be forgotten (by your own words) and even the most POed fan out there will plunk down the $ eventually to experience the new ending.

I'm not saying it's going to happen or even speculate about it being planned up front, but this kind of thing HAS happened before in game history (Fallout 3) and it worked out pretty well for everyone involved.

The bottom line here is that if they provide an entertainment experience people are willing to pay for, MUCH will be forgiven and forgotten. 

I don't understand how you can say I'm completely missing the point when you don't provide any facts. You're just speculating. Maybe you're missing the point.

BioWare hasn't followed Bethesda's lead yet. I hope they do.

The disappointment about the ending is everywhere. It's in the news, it's on Wikipedia, Facebook, it's in tons of user reviews, and on forums. Everyone seems to know about it.

I'm not sure how much larger it can possibly get. Have you ever seen something of this magnitude before?