333 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaota Vos]

Argh, so tired... need bed...

Continue to Hold The Line my friends, and I hope to see you all on the morrow!

[Zenny Merc]

Ksandor wrote...

Benrosan wrote...

 Hot off the presses. This article comes to us from Gamespot's finest:

"Some people have argued that in Mass Effect 3, BioWare has delivered something different to what it promised. This is irrelevant. In its role as both an art object and a consumer product, Mass Effect 3 remains the property of its maker. As a final product, it is the expression of those who created it, and its sole objective is to be consumed--not recreated--by its audience."

There you have it fans, so take your broken promises, your Red, Green, and Blue ending and be happy with it. And don't you dare bring up any of the massive plot holes.

Actually there is a legal liability here. It would only take one bold fan, lawyer and prosecutor to sue EA for this.

Bioware promised us that the end product would reflect our choices made in games. It did not. You can sue them for misleading statements and advertisement. Their statements are public. If I was an American citizen I would do it.

I have seen crazier things work. It would be an interesting case that is for certain, not to mention the countless people who would show up, the letters it goes on and on.

[Jake71887]

annoyingpoodle wrote...
Obviously there is going to be DLC taking place after shepard wakes up bioware has basically already stated this so what are you complaining about?
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9872108&lf=8

That's about as solid proof for expansion as those threads have for indoctrination... It's heresay at best. And I don't want DLC months from now that doesn't change the ending, or even address it, I want an ending that makes sense both to my shepard... And the Mass effect franchise as a whole. 

[malkuth74]

Your not going to get an honest point out of these people.  Just give it up.  I gave up on reviewers like 15 years ago.  There is too much money and bending over in that buisness for any real review to mean anything. Or Opinion.

[annoyingpoodle]

Jake71887 wrote...

annoyingpoodle wrote...
Obviously there is going to be DLC taking place after shepard wakes up bioware has basically already stated this so what are you complaining about?
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9872108&lf=8

That's about as solid proof for expansion as those threads have for indoctrination... It's heresay at best. And I don't want DLC months from now that doesn't change the ending, or even address it, I want an ending that makes sense both to my shepard... And the Mass effect franchise as a whole. 

Shepard gets hit by harbingers laser then he wakes up after the credits in the "hidden" ending, everything between those two points is taking place in shepards mind as harbinger attempts to take control of him. That is how the game was intended to end and im not sure if bioware intentionally made it so a lot of fans misunderstood this or if they thought most of us would get it and are now shocked that a lot of us don't.

EDIT: I think they over estimated the intelligence of their fanbase most fans of ME wanted this ending "shepard and his friends kill the reapers and save the galaxy now roll credits with shepard standing in front of a dead reaper"

Modifié par annoyingpoodle, 14 mars 2012 - 02:25 .

[Jake71887]

annoyingpoodle wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

annoyingpoodle wrote...
Obviously there is going to be DLC taking place after shepard wakes up bioware has basically already stated this so what are you complaining about?
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9872108&lf=8

That's about as solid proof for expansion as those threads have for indoctrination... It's heresay at best. And I don't want DLC months from now that doesn't change the ending, or even address it, I want an ending that makes sense both to my shepard... And the Mass effect franchise as a whole. 

Shepard gets hit by harbingers laser then he wakes up after the credits in the "hidden" ending, everything between those two points is taking place in shepards mind as harbinger attempts to take control of him. That is how the game was intended to end and im not sure if bioware intentionally made it so a lot of fans misunderstood this or if they thought most of us would get it and are now shocked that a lot of us don't.

Once again, there is no strong proof of this(or even a reasonable amount of proof)... nor has anything you've said been based in any semblence of fact. You've taken what you've heard other people say, and extrapolated it to mean cold hard facts, which isn't the case.


I don't want to hear:

Only a percentage of people voted(When you have no idea how many of those who didn't vote are unhappy. 

That DLC adressing my concerns are being released(When Bioware has given no news, except what you can infer from Woo's closing a thread, who is not a game Dev BTW)

Or that indoctrination is what happened, when you again dont have strong evidence for it, and it has not been confirmed by Bioware.

[Andur4]

At least articles like these are a minority. I see more that support the fans, thankfully.

[annoyingpoodle]

Jake71887 wrote...

annoyingpoodle wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

annoyingpoodle wrote...
Obviously there is going to be DLC taking place after shepard wakes up bioware has basically already stated this so what are you complaining about?
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9872108&lf=8

That's about as solid proof for expansion as those threads have for indoctrination... It's heresay at best. And I don't want DLC months from now that doesn't change the ending, or even address it, I want an ending that makes sense both to my shepard... And the Mass effect franchise as a whole. 

Shepard gets hit by harbingers laser then he wakes up after the credits in the "hidden" ending, everything between those two points is taking place in shepards mind as harbinger attempts to take control of him. That is how the game was intended to end and im not sure if bioware intentionally made it so a lot of fans misunderstood this or if they thought most of us would get it and are now shocked that a lot of us don't.

Once again, there is no strong proof of this(or even a reasonable amount of proof)... nor has anything you've said been based in any semblence of fact. You've taken what you've heard other people say, and extrapolated it to mean cold hard facts, which isn't the case.


I don't want to hear:

Only a percentage of people voted(When you have no idea how many of those who didn't vote are unhappy. 

That DLC adressing my concerns are being released(When Bioware has given no news, except what you can infer from Woo's closing a thread, who is not a game Dev BTW)

Or that indoctrination is what happened, when you again dont have strong evidence for it, and it has not been confirmed by Bioware.

Okay well if thats not what happened then what did? A hologram of the exact human child shepard saw on earth gives him three options? Even though the citidel was made thousands of years before humans even existed? And shepard suddenly has a magic gun that never needs to change the thermal clip. And despite "noone making it to the beam" somehow anderson is already in there "infront of you" even though he said he "followed you in". The entire scene with the normandy also proves your idea of the ending completely wrong as your squad mates are now magically on the normandy that part is so clearly a dream shepard is having as his mind so desperatly tries to form some sort of happy ending from his death.
The reapers use your past memories and opionions of people to try and indoctrinate you as they did with paul grayson they tried the same thing with shepard this is how the game ended, you appear to be in denial.
EDIT: I forgot to mention the reaper on Ronnoch says word for word exactly what the child in the citedal says at the end at one point.

Modifié par annoyingpoodle, 14 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[viperabyss]

Again, another game reviewer run off their mouth before actually finishing the game. How is "buying a product that ended up not working as advertised" irrelevant?

[Jake71887]

annoyingpoodle wrote...
Okay well if thats not what happened then what did? A hologram of the exact human child shepard saw on earth gives him three options? Even though the citidel was made thousands of years before humans even existed? And shepard suddenly has a magic gun that never needs to change the thermal clip. And despite "noone making it to the beam" somehow anderson is already in there "infront of you" even though he said he "followed you in". The entire scene with the normandy also proves your idea of the ending completely wrong as your squad mates are now magically on the normandy that part is so clearly a dream shepard is having as his mind so desperatly tries to form some sort of happy ending from his death.
The reapers use your past memories and opionions of people to try and indoctrinate you as they did with paul grayson they tried the same thing with shepard this is how the game ended, you appear to be in denial.

That is partly why the whole ending upsets people, it doesn't make any sense, and is a complete departure from the rest of the game; and indeed the rest of the series. The epic conclusion and closure (That casey said wouldn't leave us with more questions than answers like Lost did), shouldn't be a matter of: "Well this seems like a possibility because I head some growling" It should be a straight up resolution to a battle most of us have been fighting for 5 years. 

[cerberus1701]

Benrosan wrote...

 Hot off the presses. This article comes to us from Gamespot's finest:

"Some people have argued that in Mass Effect 3, BioWare has delivered something different to what it promised. This is irrelevant. In its role as both an art object and a consumer product, Mass Effect 3 remains the property of its maker. As a final product, it is the expression of those who created it, and its sole objective is to be consumed--not recreated--by its audience."

.

Except that the author's not wrong.

[s.nebulous]

annoyingpoodle wrote...

Okay well if thats not what happened then what did? A hologram of the exact human child shepard saw on earth gives him three options? Even though the citidel was made thousands of years before humans even existed? And shepard suddenly has a magic gun that never needs to change the thermal clip. And despite "noone making it to the beam" somehow anderson is already in there "infront of you" even though he said he "followed you in". The entire scene with the normandy also proves your idea of the ending completely wrong as your squad mates are now magically on the normandy that part is so clearly a dream shepard is having as his mind so desperatly tries to form some sort of happy ending from his death.
The reapers use your past memories and opionions of people to try and indoctrinate you as they did with paul grayson they tried the same thing with shepard this is how the game ended, you appear to be in denial.
EDIT: I forgot the mention the reaper on Ronnoch says word for word exactly what the child in the citedal says at the end at one point.

Ok,
If you are correct, that is adding/changing the current ending of the game. Something I thought you where against when you where speaking for millions of satisfied customers who do not visit the forums. I'm not going to get into the debate about the actual story of this supposed dlc becuase I have no clue.  You already pointed out that the majority of us are not that smart

[annoyingpoodle]

Jake71887 wrote...

annoyingpoodle wrote...
Okay well if thats not what happened then what did? A hologram of the exact human child shepard saw on earth gives him three options? Even though the citidel was made thousands of years before humans even existed? And shepard suddenly has a magic gun that never needs to change the thermal clip. And despite "noone making it to the beam" somehow anderson is already in there "infront of you" even though he said he "followed you in". The entire scene with the normandy also proves your idea of the ending completely wrong as your squad mates are now magically on the normandy that part is so clearly a dream shepard is having as his mind so desperatly tries to form some sort of happy ending from his death.
The reapers use your past memories and opionions of people to try and indoctrinate you as they did with paul grayson they tried the same thing with shepard this is how the game ended, you appear to be in denial.

That is partly why the whole ending upsets people, it doesn't make any sense, and is a complete departure from the rest of the game; and indeed the rest of the series. The epic conclusion and closure (That casey said wouldn't leave us with more questions than answers like Lost did), shouldn't be a matter of: "Well this seems like a possibility because I head some growling" It should be a straight up resolution to a battle most of us have been fighting for 5 years. 

Have you read the full explanation of the ending? it explains all of this. However I don't entirely disagree with you I don't think the ending should be presented in such a way that it needs to be explained. At the same time I can't think of a ending that has been more talked about then this in years and to me it was a good ending as it made a lot of people think about it for a long time.

[Jake71887]

annoyingpoodle wrote...
Have you read the full explanation of the ending? it explains all of this. However I don't entirely disagree with you I don't think the ending should be presented in such a way that it needs to be explained. At the same time I can't think of a ending that has been more talked about then this in years and to me it was a good ending as it made a lot of people think about it for a long time.

I have, and while I can see why people can accept that theory, and those that like the ending without that theory... I can't find myself agreeing with either. indoctrination is too flimsy and contrived for me, and the whole ending reeks of last minute... So much so that I can see them believe that deux ex was really good story-telling.

[viperabyss]

annoyingpoodle wrote...


Okay well if thats not what happened then what did? A hologram of the exact human child shepard saw on earth gives him three options?
Even though the citidel was made thousands of years before humans even existed? 

Could be the AI morph into a form where Shepard recognizes and sympathizes.

And shepard suddenly has a magic gun that never needs to change the thermal clip.

Because having a gun with limited ammo is irrelevant? Personally I think it has something to do with the fact that the HUD is off, and they don't want you run out of ammo. Why? I don't know. Perhaps design oversight.

And despite "noone making it to the beam" somehow anderson is already in there "infront of you" even though he said he "followed you in".

He came out of a different exit. Actually the in game dialogue confirms that. Furthermore, Coats yelled "no one made it to the beam" before Shepard staggered up.

The entire scene with the normandy also proves your idea of the ending completely wrong as your squad mates are now magically on the normandy that part is so clearly a dream shepard is having as his mind so desperatly tries to form some sort of happy ending from his death.

Again, design oversight and plot holes.

The reapers use your past memories and opionions of people to try and indoctrinate you as they did with paul grayson they tried the same thing with shepard this is how the game ended, you appear to be in denial.

So the game that was supposed to end the saga, and answered all question has an ending where Shepard is indoctrinated? Nothing else?

EDIT: I forgot the mention the reaper on Ronnoch says word for word exactly what the child in the citedal says at the end at one point.

I think they made similar comments about how Shepard not being able to save everyone. The Child said "you can't save me", while the Reaper said somewhere along the line of "you can't save the galaxy". Those two are distinctively different.

Like I said numerous times before, I sympathize with people's need to justify the horrendous ending. I'm in the same damn camp. However, the indoctrination theory really has nothing solid to back it up (perhaps 1~2 proofs). And think about it: if this is really the ending, we just spent a good portion of our money buying a game that doesn't have an ending, and we still have no closure, and no idea what happened when Shepard was supposedly indoctrinated. From what Casey Hudson said in the interview, it seems that he's content with the current ending, and with no plan to change it. In order for the indoctrination theory to work, there has to be an ending DLC, that we'll have to purchase.

Personally I think that's ludicrous. 

Modifié par viperabyss, 14 mars 2012 - 02:49 .

[annoyingpoodle]

viperabyss wrote...

annoyingpoodle wrote...


Okay well if thats not what happened then what did? A hologram of the exact human child shepard saw on earth gives him three options?
Even though the citidel was made thousands of years before humans even existed? 

Could be the AI morph into a form where Shepard recognizes and sympathizes.

And shepard suddenly has a magic gun that never needs to change the thermal clip.

Because having a gun with limited ammo is irrelevant? Personally I think it has something to do with the fact that the HUD is off, and they don't want you run out of ammo. Why? I don't know. Perhaps design oversight.

And despite "noone making it to the beam" somehow anderson is already in there "infront of you" even though he said he "followed you in".

He came out of a different exit. Actually the in game dialogue confirms that. Furthermore, Coats yelled "no one made it to the beam" before Shepard staggered up.

The entire scene with the normandy also proves your idea of the ending completely wrong as your squad mates are now magically on the normandy that part is so clearly a dream shepard is having as his mind so desperatly tries to form some sort of happy ending from his death.

Again, design oversight and plot holes.

The reapers use your past memories and opionions of people to try and indoctrinate you as they did with paul grayson they tried the same thing with shepard this is how the game ended, you appear to be in denial.

So the game that was supposed to end the saga, and answered all question has an ending where Shepard is indoctrinated? Nothing else?

EDIT: I forgot the mention the reaper on Ronnoch says word for word exactly what the child in the citedal says at the end at one point.

I think they made similar comments about how Shepard not being able to save everyone. The Child said "you can't save me", while the Reaper said somewhere along the line of "you can't save the galaxy". Those two are distinctively different.

Like I said numerous times before, I sympathize with people's need to justify the horrendous ending. I'm in the same damn camp. However, the indoctrination theory really has nothing solid to back it up (perhaps 1~2 proofs). And think about it: if this is really the ending, we just spent a good portion of our money buying a game that doesn't have an ending, and we still have no closure, and no idea what happened when Shepard was supposedly indoctrinated. From what Casey Hudson said in the interview, it seems that he's content with the current ending, and with no plan to change it. In order for the indoctrination theory to work, there has to be an ending DLC, that we'll have to purchase.

Personally I think that's ludicrous. 

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9872108&lf=8

[annoyingpoodle]

s.nebulous wrote...

Ok,
If you are correct, that is adding/changing the current ending of the game. Something I thought you where against when you where speaking for millions of satisfied customers who do not visit the forums. I'm not going to get into the debate about the actual story of this supposed dlc becuase I have no clue.  You already pointed out that the majority of us are not that smart 

Your petitioning a video game company to try and have them change the ending to their game, I didn't need to point anything out.

[viperabyss]

annoyingpoodle wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9872108&lf=8

So your answer to all of my rebuttals is just a single post by a Bioware employee to tell another person to join the fantasy-fest?

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to believe that it was an indoctrination, because that means there's more to the end. However, unless Casey Hudson actually said so himself, I'll have to treat every theory out there as nothing more than a fantasy. 

[Piarath]

You really just shouldn't listen to any of the 'major' gaming review people. It's a fairly closed, close-knit, bias and subjective subculture of the business. Hell, it was PROVEN not a year ago (I think) that a lot of them were actually accepting money to give better reviews.

The fact is, if Gamespot are going to say the above? Then at the risk of being absolutely frank, they're not fit to do their job; if they're going to tell us that fans have no right to complain or be dissatisfied customers with a product because it did not meet their expectations, then they have no understanding of the business world. They probably buy a faulty Toaster from Wal-Mart and spend the money to get a new one instead of demanding a refund.

And that's a purely technical viewpoint; never mind how many people have debunked this whole "it's art, and they have the right to do with it what they want" argument. Yeah, because Sir Arthur Conan Doyle certainly felt that way, didn't he? Not like he isn't one of the major, classical writers of history or that he didn't realize that his work was beyond his scope and his readers deserved more. Nooo. Not at all.

Here's a far more worthy article to read: http://www.forbes.co...-mass-effect-3/

Pass it around and enjoy it. Trust me, once you leave that tightly controlled nitch of the game review market, you'll notice a lot of people take the fans seriously. It's kind of a sad day where gamers are the well-spoken, mature lot not running around mocking the other party like mad (we're usually a fairly lousy lot, in my opinion- the ones who are most vocal, anyway) but that probably just shows the scope of how badly BioWare dropped the ball.

[s.nebulous]

annoyingpoodle wrote...

s.nebulous wrote...

Ok,
If you are correct, that is adding/changing the current ending of the game. Something I thought you where against when you where speaking for millions of satisfied customers who do not visit the forums. I'm not going to get into the debate about the actual story of this supposed dlc becuase I have no clue.  You already pointed out that the majority of us are not that smart 

Your petitioning a video game company to try and have them change the ending to their game, I didn't need to point anything out.

Wow, ok.

I did not beat the game yet, so I did not petition anything. But I can understand why you would assume as much so I forgive you.  I do however, disagree witht the people who claim the story cannot be added too, and this includes the endings.

[Unit-Alpha]

Moron.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

What's the difference between art and entertainment? It's the fundamental nature of the two. Art exists for its own sake; entertainment exists for the sake of its consumers. Art can be judged and critiqued in within established critical discourses. As it stands right now, there is NO CRITICAL DISCOURSE that either establishes or critiques videogames as an art: no, all reviews are based upon consumer ideals!(continued below)

A comment by someone on the article. I gotta say, it makes alot of sense.

[atghunter]

social.bioware.com/forum/Mass-Effect-3-Story-and-Campaign-Discussion-Spoilers-Allowed/Mass-Effect-3/Artistic-Entitlement-and-The-Marketplace-9929012-LP.html#9929012 My response.

Modifié par atghunter, 14 mars 2012 - 03:12 .

[annoyingpoodle]

viperabyss wrote...

annoyingpoodle wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9872108&lf=8

So your answer to all of my rebuttals is just a single post by a Bioware employee to tell another person to join the fantasy-fest?

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to believe that it was an indoctrination, because that means there's more to the end. However, unless Casey Hudson actually said so himself, I'll have to treat every theory out there as nothing more than a fantasy. 

ok. 
So your first point is that the AI could morph into a form that Shepard can relate to, so your saying that this AI can read minds? You consider this to be more likely then that the reapers are trying to influence shepard?

The gun not running out of ammo is a design oversight? Do you really think they would put together a entire game and then have a "design oversight" during the ending? If this was a side mission then sure but this is the ending which they know everyone is going to be playing I think they would have play tested this enough to figure this out if it was a design oversight

Coats said noone made it to the beam as you stated ok so this is proof of what I said? I don't see your point here.

Again your calling the normandy scene a "plothole" do you think that a company that poured millions of dollars into a game is going to leave a massive plothole during the ending cutscene unintentionally?

It didn't end with him indoctrinated it ended with him beating the indoctrination and waking up after being hit by the laser which is shown in the hidden scene if you choose the destroy ending. (choosing the destroy ending is beating the indoctrination notice how the "child" trys to convince you not to pick this option). Also the kid said if you choose destroy you will also die as you are part synthentic so then why do you ONLY wake up if you choose the destroy ending?( because the child is the voice of the reapers trying to indoctrinate you)

[malkuth74]

viperabyss wrote...

annoyingpoodle wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9872108&lf=8

So your answer to all of my rebuttals is just a single post by a Bioware employee to tell another person to join the fantasy-fest?

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to believe that it was an indoctrination, because that means there's more to the end. However, unless Casey Hudson actually said so himself, I'll have to treat every theory out there as nothing more than a fantasy. 

And your telling people not to express their opinion.. Maybe you should just stay out of these threads instead of commanding people what to do.

If you like the ednings Im fine with that good for you.

Most of us are not though. And its about time people like you start understanding that.  And if you don't like it to god dam bad.