333 réponses à ce sujet

[DarkBladeX98]

 I love how all these higher intelligence say "its art, deal with it." whenever it is horribly inconsistent with everything, riddled with plotholes, and all three endings are very similar.That's not how my Shepard would go out, and more importantly, that's just not a good conclusion to such a great trilogy. Oh yeah, and the flawed logic.

[HenchxNarf]

Sireniankyle1 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Hexxys wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...
Well, if you were a fan, you could see the big picture here and you wouldn't disregard the whole series because of something that didn't go your way. 

There has been a lot of games where I seethed and hated the endings of, but did I condemn the creators? No. You know why? Because it was their story, it's not supposed to end the way I want it to.

For some of us, it's not that the ending was bad, it's that it's yet another notch in ways bioware has gone bad. 

I guess it wouldn't bother me so much if people weren't so.... bullying of those who liked the game and try to state it for those that aren't all gung ho.

Thanks for actually responding without being a douchenozzle. It's appreciated, and that's not sarcasm.

There's just as much bullying, namecalling, and other such nonsense on both sides. There's a schism in the community, and it's showing. I respect that people enjoyed the endings, but to me it's a big hit, and just another thing Bioware has done wrong in my eyes. So of course I'm going to let them know, I want them to do as well as I know they can, rather then stop playing their games and letting them fade into obscurity.

And as I've said. Hate the game! Complain! That's your right to do. Go for it. But to demand them to change the ending? What about those who like the game? Do you think it's right to demand change and ruin their joy and experience? Honestly, I think this whole thing is ridiculous and the only reason I got involved is because I hate seeing the ones who are being positive be smothered by the ones who don't give them a chance to express themselves.

Why does it bother you so much that people are trying to get the endings changed?  You realize that Bioware doesn't actually have to listen to our "demands", right?  You're just trying to draw lines on where our rights as fans begin and end.  The fact is we're not doing anything malicious or illegal, so yes, we have the right to do what we're doing.

No, but what you are doing is making it hard for people to actually post saying they enjoy the game.

So we can't have our rights but you can have yours? You're upset because you are out numbered. Something that should've been expected with such a terrible ening.

Have your rights, but don't make it so people can't have their own.

[Chaota Vos]

HenchxNarf wrote...

You do realize that some of these posters are kids, right? They get excited for a game and they want to post something good. And a bunch of people make fun of them for their post (not you, specifically might I add). So yeah, they're not going to want to go through it again. And they shouldn't even have to go through it once.

Some of you are acting like bullies, and you can't deny it. I don't say you specifically. I may say you, but sometimes you is grouped in with everyone who seems to be saying the same things.

So now it's a case of "think of the children" and White Knighting for people theoretically scared to enter the forum?   A while back it sounded like you were trying to champion the "true fans" of Mass Effect/Bioware.

How come you keep changing the reasons you're arguing?  

[Sireniankyle1]

[quote]HenchxNarf wrote...

[quote]Sireniankyle1 wrote...



[/quote]

"Objective conversation? Seriously? You bash them for even saying one positive thing. Maybe we don't want you here. This forum is for everyone. Not just you and your loud obnoxous voice. You have no right to put someone down for enjoying a game. None at all.

The majority of people don't come to sites like this. BSN is a fraction of the fandom, just so you know."

[/quote]

I never said that they can't come on here. You keep manipulating my posts to help you sound rightcheous. If they are too afraid to post, then they need to go back to their cribs and cry about it. I'm not gonna act PG so that their feelings aren't hurt. I don't see how typing = loud obnoxious voice. MAYBE IF I TYPED IN CAPS, I'D GET YOUR POINT, but I don't. Maybe, just maybe, there isn't anyone afraid to post, and you are alone in this fight.

I don't bash them personally. I do you because you make us out to be cavemen and bullies. I point out how their comment is either flawed or just incorrect. I allow them state their opinions, especially if they make a topic just for that. You assume I'm trolling the forums, but all I'm trying to do is level the playing field. You have major companies on your side and you're complaining?! Open your eyes.

[/quote]

"You do realize that some of these posters are kids, right? They get excited for a game and they want to post something good. And a bunch of people make fun of them for their post (not you, specifically might I add). So yeah, they're not going to want to go through it again. And they shouldn't even have to go through it once.

Some of you are acting like bullies, and you can't deny it. I don't say you specifically. I may say you, but sometimes you is grouped in with everyone who seems to be saying the same things."

[/quote]

I can promise that I personally will not bash someone for their opinion, but know this; This ending, regardless of either opinion, will shake the very foundation of BioWare, and its community. If they survive this, which I can see it going either way, They will forever be branded with not being able to tell a story worth a damn. This will result in the company being disbanded, and people losing their jobs. If they make an optional DLC, free or paid, all of this can be avoided.

Modifié par Sireniankyle1, 14 mars 2012 - 11:50 .

[Hexxys]

Sireniankyle1 wrote...

So we can't have our rights but you can have yours? You're upset because you are out numbered. Something that should've been expected with such a terrible ening.

Don't bother.  That dude thinks we should forgo our own opinions in lieu of whatever "people who know what the eff they are talking about" at IGN/Gamespot/Kotaku/etc think.  Including our opinion that the endings desperately need to be changed for the good of the series.

[ViperAlvein]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Sireniankyle1 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Hexxys wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...
Well, if you were a fan, you could see the big picture here and you wouldn't disregard the whole series because of something that didn't go your way. 

There has been a lot of games where I seethed and hated the endings of, but did I condemn the creators? No. You know why? Because it was their story, it's not supposed to end the way I want it to.

For some of us, it's not that the ending was bad, it's that it's yet another notch in ways bioware has gone bad. 

I guess it wouldn't bother me so much if people weren't so.... bullying of those who liked the game and try to state it for those that aren't all gung ho.

Thanks for actually responding without being a douchenozzle. It's appreciated, and that's not sarcasm.

There's just as much bullying, namecalling, and other such nonsense on both sides. There's a schism in the community, and it's showing. I respect that people enjoyed the endings, but to me it's a big hit, and just another thing Bioware has done wrong in my eyes. So of course I'm going to let them know, I want them to do as well as I know they can, rather then stop playing their games and letting them fade into obscurity.

And as I've said. Hate the game! Complain! That's your right to do. Go for it. But to demand them to change the ending? What about those who like the game? Do you think it's right to demand change and ruin their joy and experience? Honestly, I think this whole thing is ridiculous and the only reason I got involved is because I hate seeing the ones who are being positive be smothered by the ones who don't give them a chance to express themselves.

Why does it bother you so much that people are trying to get the endings changed?  You realize that Bioware doesn't actually have to listen to our "demands", right?  You're just trying to draw lines on where our rights as fans begin and end.  The fact is we're not doing anything malicious or illegal, so yes, we have the right to do what we're doing.

No, but what you are doing is making it hard for people to actually post saying they enjoy the game.

So we can't have our rights but you can have yours? You're upset because you are out numbered. Something that should've been expected with such a terrible ening.

Have your rights, but don't make it so people can't have their own.

The irony of this is that if it were the opposite and everyone was happy with the endings, then you'd be bashing on the people who hate them anyway. Anyone who brought up there dislike would be buried under a storm of hate and" you don't know what you're talking about's".

Modifié par ViperAlvein, 14 mars 2012 - 11:52 .

[Ailith Tycane]

Benrosan wrote...

 Hot off the presses. This article comes to us from Gamespot's finest:

"Some
people have argued that in Mass Effect 3, BioWare has delivered
something different to what it promised. This is irrelevant. In its role
as both an art object and a consumer product, Mass Effect 3 remains the
property of its maker. As a final product, it is the expression of
those who created it, and its sole objective is to be consumed--not
recreated--by its audience."

There you have it fans, so take your
broken promises, your Red, Green, and Blue ending and be happy with it.
And don't you dare bring up any of the massive plot holes.

They don't have to change the ending, It IS their product, but they better not complain when I tell them that I hate their writing more than yeast hates vaginas.

They released an incomplete product, the ending was poorly done, less than 10 minuites long, with no real epilogue or
explination. After 5 years of investment in this universe, thats a big kick to the balls to their fans.

And if things turn out how I suspect, and they release DLC in the future which offers more of an explination to the ending, I think as a business model, that's slightly imoral. That's like saying "Thanks for your $6 to watch this film." then 15 minuites before the climax is explained, and the audience gets a nice rounded denouement, the screen goes black, and text pops up telling you to see the rest you have to pay an additional fee. That's not a good way to make fans.

Modifié par Ailith430, 14 mars 2012 - 11:52 .

[s.nebulous]

Tartilus wrote...

It's a common theme I've been seeing lately, sort of a... I'm actually not familiar with the proper terminology. It's a position adopted by individuals after thinking over a matter (in this instance, the nature of art) but which nevertheless is actually less congruous with the reality of the situation than the unthinking interpretation.

As I posted elsewhere, and as a writer myself, the immutability of stories and their 'sacredness' as works of art is nonsense, and I'm unfamiliar with any writer who feels otherwise. It's an artifact of a lack of understanding regarding how art is made - an expectation that rather than being the product of hard work and endless reiteration (which it is), it's some mystical Other, drawn from the aether and immune to any sort of objective reasoning. It's almost pseudo-religious, and it's nonsense. Art in a vacuum is indeed subjective, but novels are almost never art in a vacuum, and trilogies most assuredly are not. While I agree with individuals stating that we cannot demand alterations, the position that there is something philosophically wrong with an author altering a story after its initial release is metaphysical, not rational, and certainly should not be proffered as fact. Unless it was the author's intention to fail to bring closure to a significant number of people, their work is just as open to criticism and revision as any other non-art product. The fact that such alterations are uncommon in novels (they do happen, more often than you might think, though on smaller scales,) is more a matter of logistics than principle.

Videogames are the first truly fluid medium - indeed, it's a given that additional story will be released, and ostensibly it will (if only in incidental fashions) have the effect of altering the original story. The suggestion that we should not be able to voice our opinions as to how those resources should be directed is nothing short of bizarre, and stems from this pseudo-idealization of art. Writers (and painters, sculpters, etc.) are not savants, gifted with some amazing gift; we're mostly regular people doing a job that takes hard work, practice, and time. Accordingly, our products are as fallible as we are, and when they fail to elicit the desired reaction, they can be fixed. They don't have to be fixed, which is a point I'm finding it more and more important to stress, but they can be.

Very nice.
I am a little disapointed to see everyone just skipping over a well though out post like this.

[HenchxNarf]

[quote]Sireniankyle1 wrote...

[quote]HenchxNarf wrote...

[quote]Sireniankyle1 wrote...



[/quote]

"Objective conversation? Seriously? You bash them for even saying one positive thing. Maybe we don't want you here. This forum is for everyone. Not just you and your loud obnoxous voice. You have no right to put someone down for enjoying a game. None at all.

The majority of people don't come to sites like this. BSN is a fraction of the fandom, just so you know."

[/quote]

I never said that they can't come on here. You keep manipulating my posts to help you sound rightcheous. If they are too afraid to post, then they need to go back to their cribs and cry about it. I'm not gonna act PG so that their feelings aren't hurt. I don't see how typing = loud obnoxious voice. MAYBE IF I TYPED IN CAPS, I'D GET YOUR POINT, but I don't. Maybe, just maybe, there isn't anyone afraid to post, and you are alone in this fight.

I don't bash them personally. I do you because you make us out to be cavemen and bullies. I point out how their comment is either flawed or just incorrect. I allow them state their opinions, especially if they make a topic just for that. You assume I'm trolling the forums, but all I'm trying to do is level the playing field. You have major companies on your side and you're complaining?! Open your eyes.

[/quote]

"You do realize that some of these posters are kids, right? They get excited for a game and they want to post something good. And a bunch of people make fun of them for their post (not you, specifically might I add). So yeah, they're not going to want to go through it again. And they shouldn't even have to go through it once.

Some of you are acting like bullies, and you can't deny it. I don't say you specifically. I may say you, but sometimes you is grouped in with everyone who seems to be saying the same things."

[/quote]

I can promise that I personally will not bash someone for their opinion, but know this; This ending, regardless of either opinion, will shake the very foundation of BioWare, and its community. If they survive this, which I can see it going either way, They will forever be branded with not being able to tell a story worth a damn. This will result in the company being disbanded, and people losing their jobs. If they make an optional DLC, free or paid, all of this can be avoided.

[/quote]

I'm pretty sure that all this won't cause the company to be disbanded. Just going to throw that one out there. Because they still have quite a few people who support them, even if they do hate the ending.

[Sireniankyle1]

Hexxys wrote...

Sireniankyle1 wrote...

So we can't have our rights but you can have yours? You're upset because you are out numbered. Something that should've been expected with such a terrible ening.

Don't bother.  That dude thinks we should forgo our own opinions in lieu of whatever "people who know what the eff they are talking about" at IGN/Gamespot/Kotaku/etc think.  Including our opinion that the endings desperately need to be changed for the good of the series.

i disagree with him/her, but admire the fire in them.

[BellaStrega]

I'm not fussed about the ending, and the game itself was pretty satisfying. I am not saying I like the ending. In fact, I just find it too weird and unfathomable to do much with. I suspect the post-catalyst scenarios people are visualizing are not as doom-laden as they appear to be, and I am dubious about the indoctrination theory (although having an attempted indoctrination interlude would have been brilliant with a good ending afterward), but there's nothing wrong with fans headcanoning a more acceptable explanation.

That said, I think Bioware really should listen to the reactions to the endings, and perhaps figure out something to do. Producing a newer, better ending isn't unknown - Fallout 3 released DLC that changed the ending for the better.

I don't think an ending should cater specifically to everyone's demands, but I do think that an ending that doesn't leave so many people frustrated and confused would be a good thing.

I don't see the point of gaming sites publishing editorials on how the fans shouldn't be talking. The fans should be talking. Otherwise, what's the point? Only the people who liked the game should say something? Certainly, the writers of those editorials have a right to their own opinions (and I'll trust that they're really their opinions) but it would help more to focus on the ending and not why fans need to be more orderly in their discontent.

[Sireniankyle1]

[quote]HenchxNarf wrote...

[quote]Sireniankyle1 wrote...

[quote]HenchxNarf wrote...

[quote]Sireniankyle1 wrote...



[/quote]

"Objective conversation? Seriously? You bash them for even saying one positive thing. Maybe we don't want you here. This forum is for everyone. Not just you and your loud obnoxous voice. You have no right to put someone down for enjoying a game. None at all.

The majority of people don't come to sites like this. BSN is a fraction of the fandom, just so you know."

[/quote]

I never said that they can't come on here. You keep manipulating my posts to help you sound rightcheous. If they are too afraid to post, then they need to go back to their cribs and cry about it. I'm not gonna act PG so that their feelings aren't hurt. I don't see how typing = loud obnoxious voice. MAYBE IF I TYPED IN CAPS, I'D GET YOUR POINT, but I don't. Maybe, just maybe, there isn't anyone afraid to post, and you are alone in this fight.

I don't bash them personally. I do you because you make us out to be cavemen and bullies. I point out how their comment is either flawed or just incorrect. I allow them state their opinions, especially if they make a topic just for that. You assume I'm trolling the forums, but all I'm trying to do is level the playing field. You have major companies on your side and you're complaining?! Open your eyes.

[/quote]

"You do realize that some of these posters are kids, right? They get excited for a game and they want to post something good. And a bunch of people make fun of them for their post (not you, specifically might I add). So yeah, they're not going to want to go through it again. And they shouldn't even have to go through it once.

Some of you are acting like bullies, and you can't deny it. I don't say you specifically. I may say you, but sometimes you is grouped in with everyone who seems to be saying the same things."

[/quote]

I can promise that I personally will not bash someone for their opinion, but know this; This ending, regardless of either opinion, will shake the very foundation of BioWare, and its community. If they survive this, which I can see it going either way, They will forever be branded with not being able to tell a story worth a damn. This will result in the company being disbanded, and people losing their jobs. If they make an optional DLC, free or paid, all of this can be avoided.

[/quote]

"I'm pretty sure that all this won't cause the company to be disbanded. Just going to throw that one out there. Because they still have quite a few people who support them, even if they do hate the ending."

[/quote]

I've seen smaller waves take down bigger structures. literally, and metaphorically.

[Hexxys]

Lol I just noticed there's one vocal person in here stirring **** up, while the rest of us are uncharacteristically united. I haven't seen gamers/fans this united since Blizzard thought it'd be cool to have you use your real name/realID on their forums.

Apparently we were wrong to demand otherwise.  I mean, it's their forum right?  If we don't like it, we can leave!  xD  Sorry, I could never think like that.

Modifié par Hexxys, 14 mars 2012 - 11:57 .

[HenchxNarf]

[quote]Sireniankyle1 wrote...

[quote]HenchxNarf wrote...

[quote]Sireniankyle1 wrote...

[quote]HenchxNarf wrote...

[quote]Sireniankyle1 wrote...



[/quote]

"Objective conversation? Seriously? You bash them for even saying one positive thing. Maybe we don't want you here. This forum is for everyone. Not just you and your loud obnoxous voice. You have no right to put someone down for enjoying a game. None at all.

The majority of people don't come to sites like this. BSN is a fraction of the fandom, just so you know."

[/quote]

I never said that they can't come on here. You keep manipulating my posts to help you sound rightcheous. If they are too afraid to post, then they need to go back to their cribs and cry about it. I'm not gonna act PG so that their feelings aren't hurt. I don't see how typing = loud obnoxious voice. MAYBE IF I TYPED IN CAPS, I'D GET YOUR POINT, but I don't. Maybe, just maybe, there isn't anyone afraid to post, and you are alone in this fight.

I don't bash them personally. I do you because you make us out to be cavemen and bullies. I point out how their comment is either flawed or just incorrect. I allow them state their opinions, especially if they make a topic just for that. You assume I'm trolling the forums, but all I'm trying to do is level the playing field. You have major companies on your side and you're complaining?! Open your eyes.

[/quote]

"You do realize that some of these posters are kids, right? They get excited for a game and they want to post something good. And a bunch of people make fun of them for their post (not you, specifically might I add). So yeah, they're not going to want to go through it again. And they shouldn't even have to go through it once.

Some of you are acting like bullies, and you can't deny it. I don't say you specifically. I may say you, but sometimes you is grouped in with everyone who seems to be saying the same things."

[/quote]

I can promise that I personally will not bash someone for their opinion, but know this; This ending, regardless of either opinion, will shake the very foundation of BioWare, and its community. If they survive this, which I can see it going either way, They will forever be branded with not being able to tell a story worth a damn. This will result in the company being disbanded, and people losing their jobs. If they make an optional DLC, free or paid, all of this can be avoided.

[/quote]

"I'm pretty sure that all this won't cause the company to be disbanded. Just going to throw that one out there. Because they still have quite a few people who support them, even if they do hate the ending."

[/quote]

I've seen smaller waves take down bigger structures. literally, and metaphorically.

[/quote]

BioWare can tell stories, its just that the people complaining don't like the ending to their story.  It seems that they're pretty firm in their standing that everyone needs to just chill their knickers and see what they have in store.

[Dridengx]

Sireniankyle1 wrote...

I can promise that I personally will not bash someone for their opinion, but know this; This ending, regardless of either opinion, will shake the very foundation of BioWare, and its community. If they survive this, which I can see it going either way, They will forever be branded with not being able to tell a story worth a damn. This will result in the company being disbanded, and people losing their jobs. If they make an optional DLC, free or paid, all of this can be avoided.

Actually you are wrong on all accounts. Bioware makes plenty of money, it only takes 1 million sales to make profit and ME3 already did so. Secondly, Bioware is owned by EA, so Bioware is paid regardless and will not disband until EA says so, and EA are billionares. Lastly, no one is losing a job over a bunch of zealous children whining on boards, that's what kids do. DLC is being made regardless, they announced that pre and post launch just not to change an ending.

[Sireniankyle1]

The theory that the majority likes the ending is blown out of the water.

http://social.biowar...6&poll_id=28989

Modifié par Sireniankyle1, 14 mars 2012 - 12:04 .

[Sireniankyle1]

Dridengx wrote...

Sireniankyle1 wrote...

I can promise that I personally will not bash someone for their opinion, but know this; This ending, regardless of either opinion, will shake the very foundation of BioWare, and its community. If they survive this, which I can see it going either way, They will forever be branded with not being able to tell a story worth a damn. This will result in the company being disbanded, and people losing their jobs. If they make an optional DLC, free or paid, all of this can be avoided.

Actually you are wrong on all accounts. Bioware makes plenty of money, it only takes 1 million sales to make profit and ME3 already did so. Secondly, Bioware is owned by EA, so Bioware is paid regardless and will not disband until EA says so, and EA are billionares. Lastly, no one is losing a job over a bunch of zealous children whining on boards, that's what kids do. DLC is being made regardless, they announced that pre and post launch just not to change an ending.

I'm not saying that Mass Effect 3 won't be profitable, but you obviously haven't heard of boycotting, have you?

[dointime85]

Benrosan wrote...

 Hot off the presses. This article comes to us from Gamespot's finest:

"As a final product, it is the expression of those who created it, and its sole objective is to be consumed--not recreated--by its audience."

Who came up with the idea that an artist must never change what s/he has created?

Also, I recommend that the author of this article does a little bit of research on the history of literary theory because the idea that the reader (and gamer) is nothing but a passive consumer of literature is kind of stone-ageish.

[Ailith Tycane]

Dridengx wrote...

Actually you are wrong on all accounts. Bioware makes plenty of money, it only takes 1 million sales to make profit and ME3 already did so. Secondly, Bioware is owned by EA, so Bioware is paid regardless and will not disband until EA says so, and EA are billionares. Lastly, no one is losing a job over a bunch of zealous children whining on boards, that's what kids do. DLC is being made regardless, they announced that pre and post launch just not to change an ending.

I wouldn't use the term zealous children. The complaints people have are valid.

[HenchxNarf]

Sireniankyle1 wrote...

The theory that the majority likes the ending is blown out of the water.

http://social.biowar...6&poll_id=28989

BSN does not = the brunt of the fandom.

[Almostfaceman]

DarkBladeX98 wrote...

 I love how all these higher intelligence say "its art, deal with it." whenever it is horribly inconsistent with everything, riddled with plotholes, and all three endings are very similar.That's not how my Shepard would go out, and more importantly, that's just not a good conclusion to such a great trilogy. Oh yeah, and the flawed logic.

I still giggle every time I see this.

[HenchxNarf]

Ailith430 wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

Actually you are wrong on all accounts. Bioware makes plenty of money, it only takes 1 million sales to make profit and ME3 already did so. Secondly, Bioware is owned by EA, so Bioware is paid regardless and will not disband until EA says so, and EA are billionares. Lastly, no one is losing a job over a bunch of zealous children whining on boards, that's what kids do. DLC is being made regardless, they announced that pre and post launch just not to change an ending.

I wouldn't use the term zealous children. The complaints people have are valid.

I think they used that analogy because that's the way some of the people are acting.

[CaptainZaysh]

I agree with that quote, and would add that giving a writing veto to the BSN would be like arming chimpanzees.

[Sireniankyle1]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Sireniankyle1 wrote...

The theory that the majority likes the ending is blown out of the water.

http://social.biowar...6&poll_id=28989

BSN does not = the brunt of the fandom.

then what does?

[Almostfaceman]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I agree with that quote, and would add that giving a writing veto to the BSN would be like arming chimpanzees.

Well oddly enough the BSN is good enough for Bioware to take our money.

Don't be typical and start insulting people you don't agree with by calling them dumb monkeys. There are valid well-thought-out complaints about the ending. Bioware has asked for feedback from us chimpanzee's, so we're giving it to them.