333 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaota Vos]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Chaota Vos wrote...

So, what do you suggest?  Other than rolling over and being grateful for "what we got"

Maybe acting mature would be a start, and tell them you're unsatisfied instead of demanding and threatening.

Mature?  As opposed to calling people who oppose my opinion "nonfans/gamers?

Ineresting...

Also, more options please.  You see, some strange members of BSN seem to interpret anything negative said about the game as "moaning/whinging/entitlement".  Strange,  I know 

[HenchxNarf]

ZLurps wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Actually, you're giving them threats and ultimateums. Which isn't really a good way to get your point across.

That is just BS. We aren't even people for corporations. Our only value for them is our purchasing power and if we are willing to spend. As everything else is irrelevant, it doesn't matter how the message is delivered.

They're more likely to ignore you if you are being ****s about an issue instead of being civil and mature.

You are very naive I see. Like I said, we are nothing but walking wallets. Going to insulting may get you banned but even then, only thing that matters is if damage to brand image is going to result losses.

Actually, I'm realistic. In the working world, a company is more likely to listen to someone who brings an issue up but is polite about it. If you're being a dick and demanding and threatening, they'll laugh and throw it away.

[ArcanistLibram]

George Lucas is the owner of Star Wars. This does not change the fact that the prequels are a disaster and that he clearly has no idea what made the original trilogy enjoyable.

[Paulinius]

Game sites say we shouldn't complain.

Forbes, a well respected business publication says BioWare/EA should listen to their fans.

I think our allies are better than EA's, plus the gaming sites have a vested interest in not offending EA if they want early copies of games to review and interviews.

[Almostfaceman]

HenchxNarf wrote...

That's pretty much what I was trying to say. Be polite about it. Don't demand they change it and don't threaten them. Because they can live perfectly well without your contrebution. I've said all along, complain if you're not happy, but some of this is taking it too far.

I would advise you to talk to the people not being polite, instead of speaking in generalities. There's always going to be a rude sector of a group of people making a point. There's not a whole lot I or anyone else can do to "make" them be polite. I would suggest instead of taking your ire out on someone like me, to notifiy a moderator.

With regards to the point I was making, it seems we're in agreement that I am not being unreasonable when I act as a normal consumer and ask a company to fulfill a need.

[Cody211282]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I agree with that quote, and would add that giving a writing veto to the BSN would be like arming chimpanzees.

Well oddly enough the BSN is good enough for Bioware to take our money.

Don't be typical and start insulting people you don't agree with by calling them dumb monkeys. There are valid well-thought-out complaints about the ending. Bioware has asked for feedback from us chimpanzee's, so we're giving it to them.

Actually, you're giving them threats and ultimateums. Which isn't really a good way to get your point across.

It's actually a great thing to do. Do you think Bioware would prefer that I just walk away, don't tell them what's wrong, and not buy anything of theirs ever again without giving them a chance to make things right? I don't think so.

That's what I'm doing. They can fix it or they can lose me ever buying a single thing from me again, and we all know what happens to devs that dont make as much money as EA wants.

They made their money on ME3, and they'll make their money on every other game they release because they have a very, very large fanbase that enjoy what they put out. Even if they don't like the ending, they still support them.

Not if they keep this up, I see a lot of people not buying what they put out next because of this. Thats what this is about, if they want to save their bottom line (their devoted fanbase like me who own every damn game from BG1 and up) then they need to fix this, if no then I don't need to buy anything more from them. also incase you missed it and so I don't have ot post all of it again heres one of my older posts.

"And they were "lucky enough" to have a lot of us as paying customers.
This isn't us being fools, this is us making a point. They ether change
the endings or we stop funding you, it's that simple. Hell on my end
I've canceled my TOR account in protest and talked 3 of my friends out
of getting the game, plus I wont be buying anything else from them in
the future, and I own everything from BG1.

It's not just the
endings, it's how they have been treating us this entire games release,
Forbes has called them out on it saying they need to improve customer
trust and quite frankly I think they need to take an entire PR class on
how to deal with angery customers.

It boils down to this, we were
lied to, we have had nothing but people calling is "entitled" and we
have finaly had enough, this was the final straw, they fix it or they
can kiss a lot of paying customers goodbye and at the end of the day
they need us a hell of a lot more then we want them."

[Ailith Tycane]

HenchxNarf wrote...

thomash81 wrote...

I just get the feeling that all of the major game sites are paid off in some way. Strange that everyone makes the same argument, aren't they supposed to down-to-earth gamers as well... as we are? Their job is to review games, and point out faults, not take some high-horse stance against the "rabble" that apparently don't appreciate the game on the same elitist level they are.

The ending was bad, full of plotholes, didn't make sense and so on... how can they not see that?

Because not everyone sees things as you do, and they actually see the game and ending for what it is. They are tired of hearing the same crap over and over again.

See the ending for what it is. So badly written? I don't see how telling Bioware the end to a 5 year series sucked is somehow immature or dumb. They wrote it, they made the game for public consumption. If they're tired of hearing the same "crap" then maybe they should learn from this horrendous mistake.

[SirCroft]

I don't think that, when someone says "I'll never buy another BioWare game", they're threatening BioWare, just expressing their complete disappointment about the developer, which would make them stop buying their games.

[ZLurps]

HenchxNarf wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Actually, you're giving them threats and ultimateums. Which isn't really a good way to get your point across.

That is just BS. We aren't even people for corporations. Our only value for them is our purchasing power and if we are willing to spend. As everything else is irrelevant, it doesn't matter how the message is delivered.

They're more likely to ignore you if you are being ****s about an issue instead of being civil and mature.

You are very naive I see. Like I said, we are nothing but walking wallets. Going to insulting may get you banned but even then, only thing that matters is if damage to brand image is going to result losses.

Actually, I'm realistic. In the working world, a company is more likely to listen to someone who brings an issue up but is polite about it. If you're being a dick and demanding and threatening, they'll laugh and throw it away.

Look, I do know few things about working world and I can tell you, feedback is feedback, you take it, analyse it's contents and see what are your options.
You can ignore unsatisfied and angry customers as you do with obviously unreasonable ones, but you do it too much and stay in your comfort zone, whoops, you are out of customers and out of business. That's how it work.

[Benrosan]

s.nebulous wrote...

Tartilus wrote...

It's a common theme I've been seeing lately, sort of a... I'm actually not familiar with the proper terminology. It's a position adopted by individuals after thinking over a matter (in this instance, the nature of art) but which nevertheless is actually less congruous with the reality of the situation than the unthinking interpretation.

As I posted elsewhere, and as a writer myself, the immutability of stories and their 'sacredness' as works of art is nonsense, and I'm unfamiliar with any writer who feels otherwise. It's an artifact of a lack of understanding regarding how art is made - an expectation that rather than being the product of hard work and endless reiteration (which it is), it's some mystical Other, drawn from the aether and immune to any sort of objective reasoning. It's almost pseudo-religious, and it's nonsense. Art in a vacuum is indeed subjective, but novels are almost never art in a vacuum, and trilogies most assuredly are not. While I agree with individuals stating that we cannot demand alterations, the position that there is something philosophically wrong with an author altering a story after its initial release is metaphysical, not rational, and certainly should not be proffered as fact. Unless it was the author's intention to fail to bring closure to a significant number of people, their work is just as open to criticism and revision as any other non-art product. The fact that such alterations are uncommon in novels (they do happen, more often than you might think, though on smaller scales,) is more a matter of logistics than principle.

Videogames are the first truly fluid medium - indeed, it's a given that additional story will be released, and ostensibly it will (if only in incidental fashions) have the effect of altering the original story. The suggestion that we should not be able to voice our opinions as to how those resources should be directed is nothing short of bizarre, and stems from this pseudo-idealization of art. Writers (and painters, sculpters, etc.) are not savants, gifted with some amazing gift; we're mostly regular people doing a job that takes hard work, practice, and time. Accordingly, our products are as fallible as we are, and when they fail to elicit the desired reaction, they can be fixed. They don't have to be fixed, which is a point I'm finding it more and more important to stress, but they can be.

Very nice.
I am a little disapointed to see everyone just skipping over a well though out post like this.

Yes, and it bears repeating.

[Dridengx]

ZLurps wrote...

You are very naive I see. Like I said, we are nothing but walking wallets. Going to insulting may get you banned but even then, only thing that matters is if damage to brand image is going to result losses.

The problem is there is no losses, all of you complaining already purchased the game and everyone on the net is laughing at you and think BSN people are crazy rabid misery like fans. It's true. Secondly, holding a grudge because a company didn't give you an ending you wanted is pathetic man... it is. let that crap go.. if you need to vent use a blog or something lol.

lastly, the only people naive are the petitioners seeing how petitions have never worked. If Bioware would sway they would have after the huge backlash of Dragon Age 2, and guess what? DA2 sold well, DA2 DLC sold well, and ME3 sold well. seems like the haters... dissapeared or bought the content anyway.. which is likely to happen again

[blah64]

Kami102 wrote...

http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

love, love, love, love this article

Quoted for truth.

[Ailith Tycane]

As a writer who cares about their work, I don't see how you could be satisfied with an ending that everyone says is terrible just because your check cleared. I think fans being vocal about their displeasure is important. If these people care at all or have any form of pride in their work, it will make a difference. And if not and they only care about money, than their games can only go downhill from here, and then people eventually really will stop buying their products.

[MinatheBrat]

Benrosan wrote...

Benrosan wrote...


"Some people have argued that in Mass Effect 3, BioWare has delivered something different to what it promised. This is irrelevant."

I mean, I don't even know where to start with that statement... Does she even realize what she's saying?

Yeah this...it's a real head-scratcher.
I paid real world money for a product that was marketed one way, and then delivered in another. False advertising is not irrelevant, it's unethical.

[Paulinius]

Remember when Bank of America announced it was raising fees and there was a massive backlash from customers threatening to close their accounts and BofA ultimately reversed their decision?

I guess the customers should have kept their entitled mouths shut and dealt with it.

[alienman]

Dridengx wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

You are very naive I see. Like I said, we are nothing but walking wallets. Going to insulting may get you banned but even then, only thing that matters is if damage to brand image is going to result losses.

The problem is there is no losses, all of you complaining already purchased the game and everyone on the net is laughing at you and think BSN people are crazy rabid misery like fans. It's true. Secondly, holding a grudge because a company didn't give you an ending you wanted is pathetic man... it is. let that crap go.. if you need to vent use a blog or something lol.

lastly, the only people naive are the petitioners seeing how petitions have never worked. If Bioware would sway they would have after the huge backlash of Dragon Age 2, and guess what? DA2 sold well, DA2 DLC sold well, and ME3 sold well. seems like the haters... dissapeared or bought the content anyway.. which is likely to happen again

It is a loss, sure people bought the game. But good luck selling dlcs, and future games. The faith in EA and BioWare has hit rock bottom. That is not good for a business that makes a living on pushing out new games as they can't live on the money from ME3 forever.

Someone mentioned that the stocks for EA has plummeted after the fan rage.. that can't be good, can it?

[SirCroft]

Let's just remember BioWare is changing much of Mass Effect: Deception due to staggering amounts of plot holes and lore errors, so this "Art" argument is pointless.

[Xenite]

Apparently that was written by someone who had never played a Bioware game. Their whole niche is building games where the player is the architect... it would be like Elder Scrolls or Fallout taking place in only one building and then saying Bethesda has a right to do it and we have no valid complaint.

[Jake71887]

thomash81 wrote...
It is a loss, sure people bought the game. But good luck selling dlcs, and future games. The faith in EA and BioWare has hit rock bottom. That is not good for a business that makes a living on pushing out new games as they can't live on the money from ME3 forever. 

Someone mentioned that the stocks for EA has plummeted after the fan rage.. that can't be good, can it?

Stocks have been dropping since SWTOR.

[ZLurps]

Dridengx wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

You are very naive I see. Like I said, we are nothing but walking wallets. Going to insulting may get you banned but even then, only thing that matters is if damage to brand image is going to result losses.

The problem is there is no losses, all of you complaining already purchased the game and everyone on the net is laughing at you and think BSN people are crazy rabid misery like fans. It's true. Secondly, holding a grudge because a company didn't give you an ending you wanted is pathetic man... it is. let that crap go.. if you need to vent use a blog or something lol.

lastly, the only people naive are the petitioners seeing how petitions have never worked. If Bioware would sway they would have after the huge backlash of Dragon Age 2, and guess what? DA2 sold well, DA2 DLC sold well, and ME3 sold well. seems like the haters... dissapeared or bought the content anyway.. which is likely to happen again

IIRC DA 2 didn't sold as much as DA Origins and customers went to look for other options Witcher and Elder SCrolls franchises got huge boost from this I think. I hardly see it as a success when your competition is taking your customers and they possibly spend their money in competitioners products because brand image damange, they can't milk it like in the past.

I think it's very telling that Origins and DA2 were offered for free if you bought some products, way to boost your figures. I haven't seen that Activision or Betsheda needs to do that. LOL

What comes to polls and such, I personally don't expect there is going to be alternative ending and I don't know if I even care. I beliveve customers can express their thoughts and feelings about products like they want as much corporations are free to create their products and advertise as they see fit.

[Dridengx]

thomash81 wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

You are very naive I see. Like I said, we are nothing but walking wallets. Going to insulting may get you banned but even then, only thing that matters is if damage to brand image is going to result losses.

The problem is there is no losses, all of you complaining already purchased the game and everyone on the net is laughing at you and think BSN people are crazy rabid misery like fans. It's true. Secondly, holding a grudge because a company didn't give you an ending you wanted is pathetic man... it is. let that crap go.. if you need to vent use a blog or something lol.

lastly, the only people naive are the petitioners seeing how petitions have never worked. If Bioware would sway they would have after the huge backlash of Dragon Age 2, and guess what? DA2 sold well, DA2 DLC sold well, and ME3 sold well. seems like the haters... dissapeared or bought the content anyway.. which is likely to happen again

It is a loss, sure people bought the game. But good luck selling dlcs, and future games. The faith in EA and BioWare has hit rock bottom. That is not good for a business that makes a living on pushing out new games as they can't live on the money from ME3 forever.

Someone mentioned that the stocks for EA has plummeted after the fan rage.. that can't be good, can it?

You think EA has a worst Reputation than say Activision? I recall several petitions and backlashes for Call of Duty and its still the #1 selling franchise of all time and it breaks sales every year. but... the petitions! Just wait and see since you obviously cannot see how history is against your statements. ME3 DLC will sell. just watch and half your "hold the line" people will have purchased it

[ZLurps]

thomash81 wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

You are very naive I see. Like I said, we are nothing but walking wallets. Going to insulting may get you banned but even then, only thing that matters is if damage to brand image is going to result losses.

The problem is there is no losses, all of you complaining already purchased the game and everyone on the net is laughing at you and think BSN people are crazy rabid misery like fans. It's true. Secondly, holding a grudge because a company didn't give you an ending you wanted is pathetic man... it is. let that crap go.. if you need to vent use a blog or something lol.

lastly, the only people naive are the petitioners seeing how petitions have never worked. If Bioware would sway they would have after the huge backlash of Dragon Age 2, and guess what? DA2 sold well, DA2 DLC sold well, and ME3 sold well. seems like the haters... dissapeared or bought the content anyway.. which is likely to happen again

It is a loss, sure people bought the game. But good luck selling dlcs, and future games. The faith in EA and BioWare has hit rock bottom. That is not good for a business that makes a living on pushing out new games as they can't live on the money from ME3 forever.

Someone mentioned that the stocks for EA has plummeted after the fan rage.. that can't be good, can it?

This exactly, brand image damage doesn't stop people from playing games, they just won't spend their money in your products. Your loss is not only loss, it's a win for your competition.

[Cody211282]

Dridengx wrote...

thomash81 wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

You are very naive I see. Like I said, we are nothing but walking wallets. Going to insulting may get you banned but even then, only thing that matters is if damage to brand image is going to result losses.

The problem is there is no losses, all of you complaining already purchased the game and everyone on the net is laughing at you and think BSN people are crazy rabid misery like fans. It's true. Secondly, holding a grudge because a company didn't give you an ending you wanted is pathetic man... it is. let that crap go.. if you need to vent use a blog or something lol.

lastly, the only people naive are the petitioners seeing how petitions have never worked. If Bioware would sway they would have after the huge backlash of Dragon Age 2, and guess what? DA2 sold well, DA2 DLC sold well, and ME3 sold well. seems like the haters... dissapeared or bought the content anyway.. which is likely to happen again

It is a loss, sure people bought the game. But good luck selling dlcs, and future games. The faith in EA and BioWare has hit rock bottom. That is not good for a business that makes a living on pushing out new games as they can't live on the money from ME3 forever.

Someone mentioned that the stocks for EA has plummeted after the fan rage.. that can't be good, can it?

You think EA has a worst Reputation than say Activision? I recall several petitions and backlashes for Call of Duty and its still the #1 selling franchise of all time and it breaks sales every year. but... the petitions! Just wait and see since you obviously cannot see how history is against your statements. ME3 DLC will sell. just watch and half your "hold the line" people will have purchased it

They said DA2 DLC would sell as well, funny how it didnt do to well and they basicly stopped the moment they reilised noone wanted to play the game anymore.

[Chaota Vos]

Pretty sure many of us have admitted we would. Followed by saying ME3 would be our final EA game if Bioware have sold out to that degree.

It's fallen far since it's free DLC for KOTOR

[HenchxNarf]

Cody211282 wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

thomash81 wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

You are very naive I see. Like I said, we are nothing but walking wallets. Going to insulting may get you banned but even then, only thing that matters is if damage to brand image is going to result losses.

The problem is there is no losses, all of you complaining already purchased the game and everyone on the net is laughing at you and think BSN people are crazy rabid misery like fans. It's true. Secondly, holding a grudge because a company didn't give you an ending you wanted is pathetic man... it is. let that crap go.. if you need to vent use a blog or something lol.

lastly, the only people naive are the petitioners seeing how petitions have never worked. If Bioware would sway they would have after the huge backlash of Dragon Age 2, and guess what? DA2 sold well, DA2 DLC sold well, and ME3 sold well. seems like the haters... dissapeared or bought the content anyway.. which is likely to happen again

It is a loss, sure people bought the game. But good luck selling dlcs, and future games. The faith in EA and BioWare has hit rock bottom. That is not good for a business that makes a living on pushing out new games as they can't live on the money from ME3 forever.

Someone mentioned that the stocks for EA has plummeted after the fan rage.. that can't be good, can it?

You think EA has a worst Reputation than say Activision? I recall several petitions and backlashes for Call of Duty and its still the #1 selling franchise of all time and it breaks sales every year. but... the petitions! Just wait and see since you obviously cannot see how history is against your statements. ME3 DLC will sell. just watch and half your "hold the line" people will have purchased it

They said DA2 DLC would sell as well, funny how it didnt do to well and they basicly stopped the moment they reilised noone wanted to play the game anymore.

DA2 DLC actually sold really well.