205 réponses à ce sujet

[saracen16]

demin8891 wrote...

>>BioWare promises closure and amazing ending

>>We get a deus ex machina, no closure, and more questions

>> BEST ENDING EVER

I don't follow your logic, OP

You didn't follow my logic because you're either putting words into my mouth (I never said anything about BioWare's promises because I went into the game with ZERO expectations, only to find that the lore and story were way more than satisfying right up to and after the ending) or you didn't even take the time to read my post.

But just to entertain you, even if it was a Deus Ex Machina, a DXM at the end of a MacGuffin does not invalidate the MacGuffin. It is still a MacGuffin. Sure, it's a cliched plot device, but it was executed wonderfully. Also, you were fighting to find out who or what the Catalyst was. You were told that the Citadel is the Catalyst. It wasn't until going through London and making your way up the Conduit beam to what you think is the Catalyst. After killing the Illusive Man and stepping over to a console, something happens, and you end up with the Catalyst. Therefore, the Catalyst is also a MacGuffin.

Read my post again, THEN tell me that I talked about BioWare's promises... which, by the way, included THIS.

See beyond the last 10 minutes of the game and you'll realize that this trilogy is the best out there.

[zarnk567]

wright1978 wrote...

Well you are entitled to your opinion. Personally the gamefront article sums up exactly everything that is awful about the ending as far as i'm concerned.

www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/

[VegaMendoza]

Mr. Saracen16,

You seem like a man who would enjoy the hell out of Hemmingway. Mass Effect, "sadly", is not Hemmingway nor is it supposed to be.

How do you feel, by the by, that the choices you seem to feel so very good about was the very choices that I had to think about back in 2000 when I was finishing Deus Ex? These are just about the exact same choices given from that game and the worst part is how they don't fit at all with the central theme of Mass Effect.

In Deus Ex they fit marvelously, however. I always took the "Dark Age" ending where you destroyed Helios and sent the world back to a "technological dark age."

But this isn't Deus Ex. This is Mass Effect.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

saracen16 wrote...

You didn't follow my logic because you're either putting words into my mouth (I never said anything about BioWare's promises because I went into the game with ZERO expectations, only to find that the lore and story were way more than satisfying right up to and after the ending) or you didn't even take the time to read my post.

But just to entertain you, even if it was a Deus Ex Machina, a DXM at the end of a MacGuffin does not invalidate the MacGuffin. It is still a MacGuffin. Sure, it's a cliched plot device, but it was executed wonderfully. Also, you were fighting to find out who or what the Catalyst was. You were told that the Citadel is the Catalyst. It wasn't until going through London and making your way up the Conduit beam to what you think is the Catalyst. After killing the Illusive Man and stepping over to a console, something happens, and you end up with the Catalyst. Therefore, the Catalyst is also a MacGuffin.

Read my post again, THEN tell me that I talked about BioWare's promises... which, by the way, included THIS.

See beyond the last 10 minutes of the game and you'll realize that this trilogy is the best out there.

The DXM is many things. "Wonderful" is not one of them, in my opinion.

[Dranume]

Your title of this thread is flame bait in itself.

Most of us Grasp the concept that BW was trying to attempt with the current endings, Most of us understand that the Cycle has ended, Shep. hit the giant reset button. We get it, Greek tragedy, the Hero has to self sacrifice for the greater good. etc.. does not mean that we like it or will accept it. Or how about the simple fact that we as a community are "Venting" about how we personally feel about the endings.. Many people were emotionally upset and they needed an outlet.

[irishScott3]

Oh wow, another guy who "gets it" while the rest of us are unworthy. Plenty of you types going around, the common pattern is you've all got basic facts wrong and haven't done much research.

Watch this:

[Ruone]

I asked this in another thread, but no one saw it so ill ask someone here who understands and likes the endings .. if i showed you one in black and white just the footage .. could you tell me the choice i made? apart from the green one

[Nu-Nu]

kcitee1 wrote...

Have a look at this...


http://www.oxm.co.uk...-sophisticated/

The endings as they are, aren't sophistacted, they're cheesy and cliche, but if the indocrination theory is true, that could be such a brilliant move. I'd be upset if I had to buy more dlc to finish the conclusion, but I shove my money in their hands.

[raeting]

saracen16 wrote...

kcitee1 wrote...

Have a look at this...


http://www.oxm.co.uk...-sophisticated/

To be honest, I haven't read this article, but it realizes everything that I said! Unfortunately, the majority of ME3 fans here don't understand that or don't have the time to think about it.

But what do you think about your ending?

If you haven't read the article, don't claim to know what it says.

I have thought about the ending, dissected it, I understand all the different angles it could be coming from.

I still completely hate it.

Your assertion that people haven't thought it through or understand it is actually insulting given the tomes upon tomes of discussion and dissection of the endings available in the forum you just posted in.

[RebelByDesign]

saracen16 wrote...

This is just my opinion. I LOVED the endings. I thought they were amazing. Why is that? Because they raise many questions. All the races got enough closure: the Krogans were cured of the genophage, and the Quarians and the Geth made peace, etc. I'll use some examples...

They raise questions all right. Not the kind of questions they were hoping for though. They're all questions brought on by plot holes, bad logic and lack of resolution.

How do any of those things you mentioned even matter after those endings? Quarians and the Geth? Depending on your colour of choice you kill the Geth anyway, or make it so that everyone is genetically the same and there is peace regardless. The Krogan? Who is to say messing with their DNA doesn't render the choice regarding the genophage completely moot? And again, no matter what slight variation you pick, you ALWAYS destroy the mass relays, leaving these people stranded so far away from their home planets it'll probably take longer than their lifespans to get back without them. If they can even make that journey. That was a fun five minutes the Quarians got on Rannoch, eh? Combine that with enough flawed logic that you can never be sure the option you chose actually plays out the way the Starchild said it would, you've got a handful of the things unsatisfying about the ending.

Modifié par RebelByDesign, 14 mars 2012 - 04:58 .

[Creston918]

saracen16 wrote...

This is just my opinion. I LOVED the endings. I thought they were amazing. Why is that? Because they raise many questions. All the races got enough closure: the Krogans were cured of the genophage, and the Quarians and the Geth made peace, etc. I'll use some examples...

- Is Shepard indoctrinated near the end? The dream sequence and the all-too-familiar appearance of the Catalyst leads me to think that is a great possibility. It makes me think that the Reapers are really and truly godly-unstoppable, and can therefore not be destroyed, and all what we've seen afterwards... was an illusion. But maybe only the Catalyst appearing as a boy was an illusion, and everything else was real.

- The Reapers were the good guys? See, that's what scares me: the Catalyst and the Reapers believe that they are doing the best for organic species by preserving them and preventing them from being annihilated by the synthetics they create, in the process most likely destroying the synthetics as well as their masters. Suddenly, Saren doesn't sound like a raving, deluded fanatic, but a savior of organic species... albeit not in the way that most organics want. This pattern is something the Catalyst created, through the construction of the mass relays. Remember what Vendetta said: the universe has seen this cycle repeat itself in the same patterns of evolution and the same valleys of dissolution (something that isn't merely by chance). What if the Reapers and the Catalyst were gods who repeated these things? What if there are larger forces at play that are manipulating how people believe in religion and the like? Notice the similarities between the Asari-Prothean and Salarian-Krogan relationships? Notice anything between the Prothean AI's who rebelled and the Quarian-Geth conflict?

- Was the galaxy saved or destroyed? I thought at once that because the mass relays were destroyed, that meant all solar systems were, too. But they weren't rammed by asteroids. They got destroyed AFTER they POWERED UP and PROPELLED the Crucible transmission to another solar system, a self-propagating chain that was broken as you went along it. The energy stored in the mass relay was used to propel the dissipated Crucible signals arriving at the next solar systems, and after propelling this UNQUANTIFIABLE energy, it shatters in the process, most likely sparing the solar systems as a result. Even scarier is what happens afterwards. Will the Krogans go to war against the Salarians if you cured the genophage? What will Quarian life be like without the Geth and vice-versa? Better yet, what will Quarian life be like when all synthetics are DESTROYED? What will Quarians do without the geth ON RANNOCH? With the Citadel council no more, and space travel a myth, how will my Shepard be remembered by the races of the galaxy?

BioWare hasn't broken any promises: they've given us closure on most if not all of the issues during the game. Even if they did... SCREW THEIR PROMISES. They gave us an amazing game regardless of what they promised. I played the game with zero expectations and was satisfied to find that the lore and all the plot details were satisfied. Mass Effect 3 in its entirety was THE END. We saw what happened to the Krogans after we cured the genophage: Eve got pregnant. We saw what happened to the Quarians after they embraced the Geth: some geth uploaded themselves into Quarian hardsuits to allow the Quarians to better adjust to Rannoch. That's the best closure I can get from MY perspective as Shepard. I didn't expect that I would make it out of this fight alive.

This experience has been one of the most personal, and the trilogy left me with a lot of questions. As such, it means that I will never forget it because these are things that stick to my mind. If I knew what happened to the krogans afterwards, I'd just nod then forget about it. I've got the closure I wanted, and was left with even more questions. I wasn't aggravated by the game. I was aggravated IN it: the world gave me the same reaction as Deus Ex did with its cast of characters. Why should BioWare give us a run-of-the-mill PowerPoint presentation? I don't want to be able to wrap my head around something that is galactic in its scope. I'm only human, and my story is done. What happens to the rest of the galaxy is up to the rest of the species, and only my imagination limits the possibilities.

THINK about YOUR ending for a change, and then post your interpretation here... please.

Great post. However, I'm not sure that the word 'closure' means what you think it does. Being left with MORE questions does not imply closure. And you can only be left with these questions if you ignore the massive gaping plotholes in the ending.

Gamefront wrote a wonderful article that describes the issues with the ending far, far better than most of us could :

http://www.gamefront...ans-are-right/1

I'm amazed that author writes for Gamefront, because that seems an utter waste. If anything, HE should have been writing the ME3 ending.


No matter which way you look at it, or which of the three colored orbs you chose in the "ending", the galaxy is screwed. That's not what I wanted to see after 3 games and 5 years of investment. But I guess Bioware loves to troll its fans until they're fans no longer.

[saracen16]

zarnk567 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Well you are entitled to your opinion. Personally the gamefront article sums up exactly everything that is awful about the ending as far as i'm concerned.

www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/

I debunked every single point in that stupid article in another thread. Feel free to look it up.

VegaMendoza wrote...

Mr. Saracen16,

You seem like a
man who would enjoy the hell out of Hemmingway. Mass Effect, "sadly",
is not Hemmingway nor is it supposed to be.

How do you feel, by
the by, that the choices you seem to feel so very good about was the
very choices that I had to think about back in 2000 when I was finishing
Deus Ex? These are just about the exact same choices given from that
game and the worst part is how they don't fit at all with the central
theme of Mass Effect.

Who are you to say what the central theme of Mass Effect is? Who am I to say it either? I'm stating my opinion as to what I experienced about the game. I'm
only human. So are you. So are the developers of BioWare. They created
the work of art and sci-fi that is Mass Effect, and it's up to you to
interpret it. It's not up to me alone, you
alone, or anyone alone to dictate what it means because the developers
themselves said that the game would mean something differently to
different people. So I suggest you drop the arrogant self-righteous act and let the developers decide how they want to design the game... and just... think about it from a different perspective. I'm not forcing you to do anything. I'm just telling you to think about the game from a perspective other than flashing lights.

In Deus Ex they fit marvelously, however. I
always took the "Dark Age" ending where you destroyed Helios and sent
the world back to a "technological dark age."

But this isn't Deus Ex. This is Mass Effect.

Oh, I agree, but like I said, the themes of the game are all over, and they are all up to interpretation. I only stated my opinion as to what my ending was. The themes of Mass Effect encompass many different concepts and they are open to interpretation: religion on Thessia, politics and backroom deals on Sur'Kesh and Tuchanka, etc. The list goes on, really. And this is from the developer's side. Which themes I thought were highlighted best were based on my personal experience. They're also based on yours. So, don't think that you, I, or anyone else have all the answers... like I said above.

Baladas wrote...

The DXM is many things. "Wonderful" is not one of them, in my opinion.

Instead of repeating that asinine statement, tell me how it is a DXM because I just made an argument that it isn't. Debate that point if you can, but do NOT troll. It's unbecoming.

Danrume wrote...

Your title of this thread is flame bait in itself.

No, it isn't. It's a call to reason.

Most of us
Grasp the concept that BW was trying to attempt with the current
endings, Most of us understand that the Cycle has ended, Shep. hit the
giant reset button. We get it, Greek tragedy, the Hero has to self
sacrifice for the greater good. etc.. does not mean that we like it or
will accept it. Or how about the simple fact that we as a community are
"Venting" about how we personally feel about the endings.. Many people
were emotionally upset and they needed an outlet.

My God! You're not willing to accept any other answer, are you? Did you even READ my post? No, I bet you did not, because apparently it is YOU who is self-righteous, and not me.

irishScott wrote...

Oh wow, another guy who "gets it" while the rest of us are unworthy.
Plenty of you types going around, the common pattern is you've all got
basic facts wrong and haven't done much research.

Stereotyping and trolling is not going to get you anywhere. Get off that imagined pedestal of yours and actually debate my post. I know the lore. I read it. I looked at the choices and I thought about it. You haven't even read my post to realize that I did acknowledge that.

Ruone wrote...




I asked this in another thread,
but no one saw it so ill ask someone here who understands and likes the
endings .. if i showed you one in black and white just the footage ..
could you tell me the choice i made? apart from the green one

I'm not going to entertain a trollish question. You didn't even read my post because you're stuck in your self-righteous, self-entitled world.

[saracen16]

Creston wrote...

Great post. However, I'm not sure that the word 'closure' means what you think it does. Being left with MORE questions does not imply closure. And you can only be left with these questions if you ignore the massive gaping plotholes in the ending.

But you don't need that, do you? Closure is not always a good thing.

Gamefront wrote a wonderful article that describes the issues with the ending far, far better than most of us could :

http://www.gamefront...ans-are-right/1

I'm amazed that author writes for Gamefront, because that seems an utter waste. If anything, HE should have been writing the ME3 ending. smilie


No matter which way you look at it, or which of the three colored orbs you chose in the "ending", the galaxy is screwed. That's not what I wanted to see after 3 games and 5 years of investment. But I guess Bioware loves to troll its fans until they're fans no longer.

Seriously, look beyond the colored orbs and think about it. As for your... article...

5. Brevity. No, brevity is a good thing. Instead of being long-winded and narrative, it allows you to think for yourself, to think about what the real ending really is. In fact, the whole game is the ending. You don't know if the galaxy is destroyed after the mass relay explosion (see below) because the developers made it vague on purpose. That is good writing: it leaves you with an impression... an impact.

4. Confusing and underdeveloped - the ending is from your perspective. You're seeing what Shepard is seeing. Shepard is in the presence of a Citadel, a Reaper, and an ancient AI that created the Reapers. I'd damn well be hallucinating or having my perception fudged. After all, Shepard is only human.

3. Plot holes. The mass relays were not destroyed like the one in Arrival was. Destroying a mass relay doesn't mean that they will kill all life forms. I've offered an explanation: the energy in the mass relays is released BEFORE they are destroyed. That energy is transferred from the Crucible. One chain after another. Some of it is wasted as heat and a big chunk of it is wasted at the destination system to perform its task (destroy, control, synthesize, etc.). The receiving mass relay then uses its own energy to amplify the signal and send it across space and time. Even then, there are other systems that don't have access to mass relays (as per the galaxy map). You are left to interpret it based on the lore. You can either think or let the game think for you, which defeats the purpose of it being Mass Effect. The same goes for the other plot holes: NOT ALL RACES GO EN MASSE TO EARTH. Those who did form the military backbone. There is NOTHING indicating that EVERY SINGLE BATARIAN, QUARIAN, TURIAN, KROGAN, ASARI, AND SALARIAN WENT TO EARTH. Finally, the Normandy's Escape: the ground shuttle picked up everyone and there was plenty of time since Shepard got to the beam and made his final choice.

2. Philosophical themes - that's ridiculous. The game has different meaning to different people. That's what makes Mass Effect a personal franchise. You interpret it differently than how other people interpret it. The writer's intention wasn't to give you what the themes were. They had these grand topics and you had to make the inferences. TV shows work differently since you're a passive participant. They were represented sufficiently throughout the entire series, and in fact, the themes themselves were brought in an even more subtle and thought-provoking light in several of the missions that you played: Thessia (religion), choice (Vega's enlisting in N7), politics (Asari Councillor and her initial refusal), synthetics (Quarians and Geth, especially when they realize that the Reaper tech makes the Geth more unique), etc. Even the writer of this glorified rant you posted admitted that many themes were covered, and from what I've played, most of the themes were expanded on in a much more subtle way. He happens to have a horribly short attention span.

1. Player choice - it isn't discarded. You are left wondering: are the mass relays destroyed? Are they spared as a result of the explanation I provided that doesn't contradict with the lore? Either way, the fate of the galaxy depends on you: you let the krogans survived or did you perpetuate the genophage? The galaxy you leave behind is your own. Whatever happened to it is your interpretation. You've got enough closure from the choices you've made: genophage is cured or destroyed, Conrad is spared or is dead, Khalisah is punched again or helped, the Quarians and the Geth come to peace or one obliterates the other...

Try wrapping your head around that.

Modifié par saracen16, 14 mars 2012 - 05:25 .

[SilencedScream]

blah64 wrote...

I've thought about it alot. I didn't get nearly enough closure. I couldn't get passed the plotholes. And at the end of the day, it's not what I was promised. I was promised answers, not more questions.

This.
You want to know why my "closure" was?

oi51.tinypic.com/16icp5k.jpg

Two sentences; one of which encouraged me to play further downloadable content - which will almost certainly require me to put forth more money.

No.

[pavi132]

It's fine if you like the endings, but don't be condescending about it and imply that we didn't think about our endings enough. We thought through our endings plenty, maybe even too much. Many of us just disagree with you on the quality of them.

Nah, know what? After reading some of your other posts all I see is you acting like you are better than others in terms of your viewpoint and telling them to see it from your viewpoint while at the same time refusing to look at it from another's. 

Modifié par pavi132, 14 mars 2012 - 05:35 .

[Pertheus]

Q1. Was the galaxy saved or destroyed? I thought at once that because the
mass relays were destroyed, that meant all solar systems were, too. But
they weren't rammed by asteroids. They got destroyed AFTER they
POWERED UP and PROPELLED the Crucible transmission to another solar
system, a self-propagating chain that was broken as you went along it.
The energy stored in the mass relay was used to propel the dissipated
Crucible signals arriving at the next solar systems, and after
propelling this UNQUANTIFIABLE energy, it shatters in the process, most
likely sparing the solar systems as a result.

A1. Well that shockwave of energy that shoots out from every single mass relay that gets hity by that energy transmission it reaches out some ~19000 AU in diameter so no they wont be spared. and that measurement is just one relay.

Q2. Even scarier is what
happens afterwards. Will the Krogans go to war against the Salarians if
you cured the genophage?

A2. No relay, No FTL, No system left since relay shockwave would prob already wiped the systems cleaned see A1, even if they somehow survive that shockwave they will be light years apart what are they gonna do about it?

Q3. What will Quarian life be like without the Geth
and vice-versa? Better yet, what will Quarian life be like when all
synthetics are DESTROYED? What will Quarians do without the geth
ON RANNOCH?

A3. Again relay went boom enormous shockwave no life left see A1. Biggest question here is how did they get home since we blow up the relay? or did they pick up an go home midfight?

Q4. With the Citadel council no more, and space travel a myth,
how will my Shepard be remembered by the races of the galaxy?

A4. Again big big shockwave no life left, see A1, I got lazy.

This is all I see, ohh only ships that was currently already in FTL got out due to loop just like fish got out of the loop hole in the bible when a flood was suppose to wipe everything out. Ask Izzard about it he can explain it better and in a James Mason voice.

Edited:
Forgot to meantion that yes I dont mind if you like the ending I just wanted to say that I did think about it but didn't like it.

Modifié par Pertheus, 14 mars 2012 - 05:31 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

saracen16 wrote...


Instead of repeating that asinine statement, tell me how it is a DXM because I just made an argument that it isn't. Debate that point if you can, but do NOT troll. It's unbecoming.

Honestly, it's not that hard.

Deus Ex Machina is not as simple as "Hey, they mentioned some vague concept halfway through the story!".

We are given absolutely no exposition regarding the starchild. Who is he? We don't know. How did he reach this belief that killing organics is right? Again, we don't know. Who originally came up with the idea of the Crucible? Again, nothing. Why doesn't he just watch the Reapers wipe us out, proving he was right? Again, nothing. Why didn't the kid simply open the relay when the Protheans blocked the signal? Again, no idea. Why does the Catalyst give alternate possibilities? As usual, nothing.

Had we at least been given exposition regarding the history of the starchild, it would have given the impression that it had some relation to the narrative. They honestly should have just reused Harbinger. He was a known entity.

It's about as crap story-telling as it can get.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 14 mars 2012 - 05:36 .

[saracen16]

Pertheus wrote...

Q1. Was the galaxy saved or destroyed? I thought at once that because the
mass relays were destroyed, that meant all solar systems were, too. But
they weren't rammed by asteroids. They got destroyed AFTER they
POWERED UP and PROPELLED the Crucible transmission to another solar
system, a self-propagating chain that was broken as you went along it.
The energy stored in the mass relay was used to propel the dissipated
Crucible signals arriving at the next solar systems, and after
propelling this UNQUANTIFIABLE energy, it shatters in the process, most
likely sparing the solar systems as a result.

A1. Well that shockwave of energy that shoots out from every single mass relay that gets hity by that energy transmission it reaches out some ~19000 AU in diameter so no they wont be spared. and that measurement is just one relay.

We don't even know that. If you read the codex, it says that the Crucible alters the dark energy transmissions of the mass relays and they send a different signal. The energy of the mass relays amplifies that signal and sends it spiralling towards every single star system. We don't even know if the mass relays end up destroying or sparing the solar systems because the explosion was not the same as it was on Arrival.

Q2. Even scarier is what
happens afterwards. Will the Krogans go to war against the Salarians if
you cured the genophage?

A2. No relay, No FTL, No system left since relay shockwave would prob already wiped the systems cleaned see A1, even if they somehow survive that shockwave they will be light years apart what are they gonna do about it?

Again, we don't know that. The fact that the Normandy landed SOMEWHERE that is GREEN means that there is hope that the relays did not get destroyed. The energy in the relays was released elsewhere: towards propagating the Crucible's signal, not towards destroying the solar systems. They shattered because of the sheer force of the energy released from them. Answer: we don't know. But what do you think?

Q3. What will Quarian life be like without the Geth
and vice-versa? Better yet, what will Quarian life be like when all
synthetics are DESTROYED? What will Quarians do without the geth
ON RANNOCH?

A3. Again relay went boom enormous shockwave no life left see A1. Biggest question here is how did they get home since we blow up the relay? or did they pick up an go home midfight?

Read above. Not all Quarians made it to Earth. Only the war assets that Shepard picked up did. The civilians of the Migrant fleet are on Rannoch as they have a homeworld now. I don't think every race will send EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF THEIR SPECIES to Earth to fight what is best is a long shot and at worst is a trap... do you?

Q4. With the Citadel council no more, and space travel a myth,
how will my Shepard be remembered by the races of the galaxy?

A4. Again big big shockwave no life left, see A1, I got lazy.

Me, too. See above.

This is all I see, ohh only ships that was currently already in FTL got out due to loop just like fish got out of the loop hole in the bible when a flood was suppose to wipe everything out. Ask Izzard about it he can explain it better and in a James Mason voice.

I'll let this slide since there was sufficient time for Joker to pick up everyone he could from Earth.

[saracen16]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

saracen16 wrote...


Instead of repeating that asinine statement, tell me how it is a DXM because I just made an argument that it isn't. Debate that point if you can, but do NOT troll. It's unbecoming.

Honestly, it's not that hard.

Deus Ex Machina is not as simple as "Hey, they mentioned some vague concept halfway through the story!".

We are given absolutely no exposition regarding the starchild. Who is he? We don't know. How did he reach this belief that killing organics is right? Again, we don't know. Who originally came up with the idea of the Crucible? Again, nothing. Why doesn't he just watch the Reapers wipe us out, proving he was right? Again, nothing. Why didn't the kid simply open the relay when the Protheans blocked the signal? Again, no idea. Why does the Catalyst give alternate possibilities? As usual, nothing.

He's the Catalyst. We were told that there is a Catalyst, but we were also told that the master of the Reapers is a presence that is inferred. That's the mystery. The kid was controlling the Reapers but he wasn't controlling the relay. The Keepers were. See how we just opened up a debate? I like this... Anyways, he himself stated that the creator will always rebel against the creator, and therefore believed that this life should be preserved in Reaper form, to allow other races to continue. Remember what Vendetta said? There are patterns. This starchild is playing God. Hell, we don't know if he even IS a starchild, an AI, or a God. That makes it interesting. He realizes that his solution is wrong because the organics have found out his plans and have mounted resistance.

Had we at least been given exposition regarding the history of the starchild, it would have given the impression that it had some relation to the narrative. They honestly should have just reused Harbinger. He was a known entity.

It's about as crap story-telling as it can get.

I don't think so. The fact that it makes you think about it makes it all more mysterious and debatable. No one knows how the Reapers got their technology, but no one needs to know at this point, either. We are given information in the codices based on organics studying them... about indoctrination, etc. But Harbinger is already an identified enemy, and we were already told that the Reapers were not the master of the pattern that we see in the galaxy. Think about it: in reality, an exposition during the game wouldn't happen. That's what makes it more convincing as an experience.

[Arthorius]

"Try wrapping your head around that."

Please remind me, who are you calling self-righteous?

Gentlement, I suggest we do not feed the troll any further. This good man is obviously far too sophisticated for us humble haters who are clearly unable to grasp the sheer magnitude of these apotheoses.

[bytemarks]

I hate how everyone's response to the ending is to link to an article talking about the ending. Form your own opinions. Indoctrination is the first thing I thought of when the end sequence started so that's what I believe happened. You're entitled to your opinions, and you can't tell me mine is wrong.

[saracen16]

pavi132 wrote...

It's fine if you like the endings, but don't be condescending about it and imply that we didn't think about our endings enough. We thought through our endings plenty, maybe even too much. Many of us just disagree with you on the quality of them.

I'm not being condescending. I'm just asking you to see things differently. You want me to be convinced by your arguments, don't troll me but instead say something that damn well convinces me that I am wrong. Up till now, I have seen nothing in this thread.

Nah, know what? After reading some of your other posts all I see is you acting like you are better than others in terms of your viewpoint and telling them to see it from your viewpoint while at the same time refusing to look at it from another's. 

I have seen it from other viewpoints, and I am personally not convinced that the ending is just a series of colored lights, that it's not a plot hole but rather a mystery. I have made my arguments. I can see why people think that the endings suck but I disagree with them.

[Epique Phael767]

blah64 wrote...

I've thought about it alot. I didn't get nearly enough closure. I couldn't get passed the plotholes. And at the end of the day, it's not what I was promised. I was promised answers, not more questions.

[bytemarks]

saracen16 wrote...

pavi132 wrote...

It's fine if you like the endings, but don't be condescending about it and imply that we didn't think about our endings enough. We thought through our endings plenty, maybe even too much. Many of us just disagree with you on the quality of them.

I'm not being condescending. I'm just asking you to see things differently. You want me to be convinced by your arguments, don't troll me but instead say something that damn well convinces me that I am wrong. Up till now, I have seen nothing in this thread.

Nah, know what? After reading some of your other posts all I see is you acting like you are better than others in terms of your viewpoint and telling them to see it from your viewpoint while at the same time refusing to look at it from another's. 

I have seen it from other viewpoints, and I am personally not convinced that the ending is just a series of colored lights, that it's not a plot hole but rather a mystery. I have made my arguments. I can see why people think that the endings suck but I disagree with them.

I agree with you. I don't know how people can argue opinions with no evidence. 

[saracen16]

Arthorius wrote...

"Try wrapping your head around that."

Please remind me, who are you calling self-righteous?

"Try wrapping your head around that" doesn't mean I'm being self-righteous. I'm just asking you to think differently because I think, personally, that the ending is far more limitless than it seems. and that's amazing in its own. I'm not saying that you are lesser or dumber for believing that it isn't, nor did I say that I was in the right.

Gentlement, I suggest we do not feed the troll any further. This good man is obviously far too sophisticated for us humble haters who are clearly unable to grasp the sheer magnitude of these apotheoses.

Now you're trolling, and not debating my points.

Modifié par saracen16, 14 mars 2012 - 05:49 .