205 réponses à ce sujet

[saracen16]

To all those who are insulting me, trolling me, baiting me, and considering themselves arrogantly above me just because I'm expressing a different opinion than yours, no, it's not fanfiction. No I'm not going by false marketing promises that are made solely to make people want to buy the game. No, I am not belittling you or berating you or insulting you for having a different opinion. I have mine and feel free to disagree, but don't act all high and mighty and berate me because I'm not doing the same to you.

I'm going to quote Casey Hudson:

"I didn’t want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the
sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people–debating
what the endings mean and what’s going to happen next, and what
situation are the characters left in. That to me is part of what’s
exciting about this story. There has always been a little bit of mystery
there and a little bit of interpretation, and it’s a story that people
can talk about after the fact."

That's how I felt about the whole series. Not just a run-of-the-mill game, but an experience that made sense with the lore, the codices, and all occurrences and plot points. This is what I think is science fiction, and I think the devs have pulled it off in a way unimaginable in the gaming world. This is what the developers intended all along. They did not want to tell you so as to spoil the experience. They were acting in their best interests to get more people to play the game. That backfired because of unmet expectations, many of them realistic and unrealistic. However, the developers have more on their plate as they are exposed day and night to the lore and possibilities of this franchise. To fulfill every expectation and at the same time deliver THEIR OWN content would be mind-bogglingly difficult.

elferin wrote...

i stopped here. Are you serious, I mean really?

Yes, I am. Don't be surprised that there are other people who have an opinion different than yours.

Did you play ME1
& 2,

Religiously. Two of the best games I've ever played, and ME3 is the icing on the cake.

do
you know what a trilogy is?

Yes, and I know that it doesn't have to satisfy a written convention. I like it when something defies convention. I don't want another product I can shelve. I want something to remember. And BioWare did an amazing job.

did you watch announcments while the game was in the making?

Here and there, but otherwise no, I didn't watch any big announcements.. I learned over the years that announcements from devs are nothing but hype and hyperbole made to make everyone by the game. That's part of capitalism. People thought that Syndicate would be a revolutionary game, but instead it turned out to be another run-of-the-mill shooter with a drab co-op mode. And yes, I know what a trilogy is: I've been there from start to finish. I ran and played Mass Effect 1 without even being a board member. All I saw of ME2 were trailers here and there about different characters. But not once did I believe them or the announcements that came with them.

Going in with ZERO expectations is better than going with any expectations. And yes, a fan can have any expectation he or she wants, even if its NONE. I am entitled to believe what I will about the endings regardless of those so-called "promises" that BioWare devs made. I played ME3 because I cared about continuing my Shepard's story, not because I wanted to see OMFG-Kasumi Goto as squadmate and LI! or all the answers to my questions. In fact, I paid attention to the story and I felt that everything about the galaxy fell into place. And that's just my experience. So, don't get all knee-jerk and say that I said that if you didn't play it like I did, you're wrong... because I believe that everyone has an opinion. I can disagree with you but I'm not going to say you're wrong because like me you are only human and neither of us has all the answers.

[movieguyabw]

VegaMendoza wrote...

In the end I refuse to apply these "endings" (yes, all -16- of them, and all the colours as well!) to be relevant for my Cmd. Shepard. He'd most likely punt the little space wizard and find the nearest giant cannon to blow up the Reapers.

Quoted, because this is what my Shepard would've done as well.  

[saracen16]

Linus108 wrote...

Ah, the ol' use your imagination. The, they left us a lot of things open, so we can come up with our own conclusions...

Only problem with that is, the ending makes no logical sense in order for the player to fill in the blanks. How the hell did the Normandy get marooned on a jungle planet? How did squadmates that were on earth, magically appear on the Normandy at the end? Why was Joker flying away in the first place?

Why is this Star Child showing up in the last 1% of the game, and telling you everything you thought is wrong. Who is he? Why should Shepard believe him? Why should we, as a player who has just invested 100 + hours into a world we were told is the truth, believe someone telling you that everything you thought was wrong?

Up until the run to the beam, everything made sene. But once you get taken up to the Citadel, all logic and reason is thrown out the window. I'm not even going to get into the plot holes and lore errors that this ending presents. Read about that here:

http://www.gamefront...ns-are-right/3/

&

http://www.gamefront...ns-are-right/4/

I'm glad you liked the ending. But I just can't disagree with you enough. It didn't put the player in a place where they could make assumptions/interpretations. Instead it was non-sensical. I find it hard to believe that anyone could really be happy with this ending, if they actually did the research and understood why the ending was so poor. But hey, to each his/her own. 

That's all your opinion to think that it was non-sensical. Same as the writer of the article you posted (which, by the way, I debunked a few pages back). I did the research and I thought it out. It didn't leave me dissatisfied. It left me with more questions. That's an even more lasting impression than anything.

The trilogy didn't end in the last 10 minutes of Mass Effect 3. Mass Effect 3 as a whole WAS the ending. You saw how your choices affect the galaxy and you're left wondering whether life is destroyed or spared, and if it was, what would become of it given the choices you made. Read the OP again.

[Asnine112]

There sure are a lot of "I thinks" and "This is my opinion" in your rationalizations of the ending.


And yes, you are in the minority. Shocking, I know. Hate to break it to you.

Also, that Casey Hudson quote you quoted directly contradicts basically everything he said before the game. People like you, who just blatantly let people lie and get away with it ("Oh, its capitalism" bs) are just enabling liars like him and Peter Molyneux.


I do agree with you that it would be incredibly difficult to satisfy everyone. However, the way they did it they managed to ****** off a very large majority of their fan base, while apparently appeasing people like you who enjoy random things happening with no foreshadowing as well as filling in major blanks (e.g. creating your own fan fic based on what happened, and pretending otherwise is just, well, not true)


edit: lol, there's no doubt about civilization as we know it being destroyed. Imagine if Earth suddenly, without warning, had to revert to wind power (boats) and horses to transport all the goods. Millions, if not billions, would die and civilizations would collapse. And what happened within the ME universe was far more severe than that.

Modifié par Asnine112, 14 mars 2012 - 08:05 .

[Malchat]

thomash81 wrote...

Malchat wrote...

When the game´s tag line is TAKE BACK EARTH, I might be inclined to think that I could, in fact, take back Earth before the end.

Well, considering the ending, I think they ment that we took back earth from a predetermined evolution that revolvs around the mass effect fields.

But by taking back earth, we destroyed everything in the galaxy. Humanity and other species will have to start over from scratch, and this time around the technological evolution will come at "normal" rate.

Anyway, this is what I figured from the ending... For some unknown reason BioWare considered the starting over part for all races the best one. I don't agree though. Because, at least considering my Shepard, he would never go for something like this. He lives now, and protects the galaxy as it is. He never saw the mass effect fields as something evil. So the ending choice destroyes everything he(me) believes in... and you are forced to take one.

Sorry, my english feels a bit poor today, and I'm tired

Your English is just fine, mate.

Yeah, if I squint and look sideways, I can see what Bioware is going for, especially if I take the 'Reaper mind control'-hypothesis onboard, but the honest truth is:

When playing, my passionate excitement slammed headfirst into someone's poorly executed dramatic pretensions.

And while I don't believe I'm entilted to demand a change or epilogue, I am very much entitled to call the developers on their poor handling of a story I was deeply invested in.

Sorry, OP:  I HAVE actually thought about my ending, long and hard. But at the end of the day, my first playthrough ended in utter disappointment. Rationalizations, explanations, helpful tweets and forum posts, DLC, patched endings be damned: in actual play, the series let me down on an emotional level.

I'm truly glad others went out on a high note.

Game on everyone.

Modifié par Malchat, 14 mars 2012 - 08:10 .

[Militarized]

Why do all these people who like the ending have no idea about anything from Mass Effect and all sound like they're in Philosophy 101 with lackluster thought. Hearing about some of these concepts for the first time and instead of thinking going "WOW... that's DEEP". 

Not trying to be rude but... the game was supposed to answer questions, it's the END OF THE TRILOGY... it was stated numerous times this would happen. The ending is not deep... it's a simple rip off of another game and a movie in some retarded mishmash. 

They could have done something deep and interesting... they didn't. 

Modifié par Militarized, 14 mars 2012 - 08:12 .

[HowlingSiren]

You are right, OP, it all comes down to how you interpret the ending. Here is mine, and perhaps you will understand why I profoundly disliked the ending. An ending is not good because it makes you think. An ending is good if it brings sufficient closure.

Is Shepard indoctrinated? I believe that theory, from the minute he was hit by Harbinger’s beam until he chooses Destroy and wakes up under the rubble on Earth. I can’t otherwise explain how he gets from the Citadel to Earth or why the Normandy was fleeing with my teleporting unscathed Earth mission companions on board, so I am assuming the fight against indoctrination covers the entire Citadel sequence and the following relay explosion/Normandy fleeing/Eden world sequence. So what is my ending? Shepard is disabled under the rubble and the Reapers remain undefeated. If I grasp at straws, I could assume the allied fleet ends up victorious, but seeing how utterly inefficient they have been so far, that’s one very thin and fragile straw.

The Reapers were the good guys. I believe in self-determination and not in a higher power that dictates the fate of the universe. Particularly when that deity would choose periodic mass murder as a means to an end. Wouldn’t it be better to educate rather than annihilate? It’s incredibly bleak to assume that organics cannot learn from their own mistakes and history. As such, I find that interpretation unsatisfactory for my own belief system.

Was the galaxy saved or destroyed? Again, completely open to interpretation. Based on Arrival, I automatically assumed the galaxies were destroyed, particularly as on the map you see the shockwave, not just the relays disappearing. I suppose I could headcannon that shockwave as just disabling Reapers, but it doesn’t change the grim fate of the species other than human that will most likely die of starvation in the Sol system. Nor the fact that the Mass Effect universe as I know and love it is destroyed.

Lastly, there is a point of dissatisfaction for me you do not cover, and that is the lack of closure for the crew. These characters are one of the reasons I grew so attached to Mass Effect, and for them, there is nothing. Again, this is personal and you might not share the sentiment, but for those of us who do, the lack of closure is a huge disappointment.

So yes, I have THOUGHT about the ending, and NO, I still do not like it.

Modifié par Nina88, 14 mars 2012 - 08:12 .

[Elite Midget]

Just because you make a huge blot of nonsensual text doesn't mean your point is reinforced, OP. I respect your opinion but I will let you know you're in the minority and the thing you're trying to stir up isn't going to come out the pot as intended.

[saracen16]

Militarized wrote...

Why do all these people who like the ending have no idea about anything from Mass Effect and all sound like they're in Philosophy 101 with lackluster thought.

Generalizations, INSULTS, and trolling do not an argument make. Drop the self-righteous act.

Not trying to be rude but... the game was supposed to answer questions, it's the END OF THE TRILOGY... it was stated numerous times this would happen. The ending is not deep... it's a simple rip off of another game and a movie in some retarded mishmash.

And what movie is that? Instead of making blanket statements, don't just tell me. SHOW ME.

Even then, that's the problem: Mass Effect is not just any other trilogy. Neither are most other games. If it was the end of your run-of-the-mill trilogy, it would be forgettable. But there's so much in the lore that supports the ending and the game as a whole. This is a GAME. It's not a movie where the experience is passive. You're supposed to make your own judgements based on your Shepard's human experience.

They could have done something deep and interesting... they didn't. 

I think they did, but you don't. Leave it at that.

[Aligalipe]

I really respect your opinion, and I'm happy for you that you' re satisfied with the endings, I'm going to quote myself here.
"I think it would be fair to say that we' re entitled to what we' re promised. Bioware promised us a closure, lots of different endings. We didn't get these things, and what we get (I'm not talking about the rest of the game) was poor quality, a rushed ending. Bad explanations. We don't want them to change the endings they created. We want better quality, better narrative, more options. We don't want to "pick" our endings. Most importantly we want those options to reflect our choices."

The Endings themselves we get weren't bad I give you that. But 1 minute conversation with the star Child, Shepard doesn't get an option to defend his point of view and can't try to convince it that its wrong. And as I said before it simply gives us choices to pick. Normandy crew gets stranded on a planet in every choice we make. Now I'm going to write some questions here, Try to answer them. You don't have to write answers to them. Just answer them yourself.

What do my squadmates that were beside me a minute ago do on the Normandy?
Why does Normandy go to a Mass Relay and try to run? No one on that ship are cowards.
How does my EMS effect Anderson living and dying at the hands of TIM?

These are the ones I could think of in 2 minutes. And I doubt that you can find good answers for them, because they are plot holes and inconsistencies( I hope I wrote that one right..)

Modifié par Aligalipe, 14 mars 2012 - 08:24 .

[saracen16]

Asnine112 wrote...

There sure are a lot of "I thinks" and "This is my opinion" in your rationalizations of the ending.

Based on the lore and from what I saw in the ending, which is a VERY subjective experience.

And yes, you are in the minority. Shocking, I know. Hate to break it to you.

Doesn't mean I'm wrong. Nor does it mean I'm right. I just have my own opinion. The majority of people like to eat eggs. I hate eggs. Does that make me wrong? No.

Also, that Casey Hudson quote you quoted directly contradicts basically everything he said before the game. People like you, who just blatantly let people lie and get away with it ("Oh, its capitalism" bs) are just enabling liars like him and Peter Molyneux.

Knock off the personal insults and look at the game at face value. The developers were committed to this franchise and they put in a lot of hard work to make this game one of the greatest if not the greatest.

I do agree with you that it would be incredibly difficult to satisfy everyone. However, the way they did it they managed to ****** off a very large majority of their fan base, while apparently appeasing people like you who enjoy random things happening with no foreshadowing as well as filling in major blanks (e.g. creating your own fan fic based on what happened, and pretending otherwise is just, well, not true)

It's not "fan-fiction". It's speculation based on my choices. I didn't dictate what the "fan-fic" is. I asked questions based on the endings and choices I made and got. Don't compare that to written fanon. "Fan-fiction" is what that guy who wrote that well-circulated alternative ending. He's not questioning the reality. He's substituting it with his own reality even though he contributed ZERO work to the game. Even if the writing in ME3 is terrible, which I don't believe it isn't, that's still pretty damn arrogant. Think of how the writers will feel. Think of how someone else who liked the endings will feel if someone else's fanfic gets shoved down his throat.

Better yet... think of how two people who hate the current endings... one with fanfic A and the other with fanfic B... such that both are contradictory... fight over which fanfic will make it to a supposed "altered" game (and I'm personally glad that BioWare is sticking to keeping the game their own) ending. Many other fans will be sure as pissed, and that's a guarantee.

The writers at BioWare have been in this business for a long while, and they knew what they were doing. They didn't expect to outrage everyone. A lot of people were outraged at the idea of the Collector enemy in ME2 as well as the cartoonish Harbinger and the giant terminator, but people overall loved ME2. The same goes for ME3.

edit: lol, there's no doubt about civilization as we know it being destroyed.

We don't know that! If you've sincerely read my OP, I argued this point: there is absolutely NO indication whatsoever that tells us that the galactic civilizations were destroyed by the mass relays (because they weren't destroyed by asteroids) and there's no indication that every single member of every single species made its way to Earth... Only the war assets you acquired did. Don't troll and say that there's "no doubt". BioWare made it such that the ending is debatable. You're free to believe what you wish but DON'T for one minute think that other possibilities are wrong.

Imagine if Earth suddenly, without warning, had to revert to wind power (boats) and horses to transport all the goods. Millions, if not billions, would die and civilizations would collapse. And what happened within the ME universe was far more severe than that.

And how do you know that? As far as we know, only the mass relays are destroyed. We don't even know if that led to the destruction of civilizations. IMO, that means the interstellar economy will have to start from scratch. All species will revert to pre-space-flight status, but they will still survive because not all their technology is destroyed. It's just that they have to fare without a Citadel, without a Council, without mass relays. We don't know how they did, but we KNOW that at one point in their history, all species did thrive to a certain extent prior to discovering spaceflight. One day, they will rediscover that again, only this time there won't be mass relays to help.

At least, that's what I think.

[saracen16]

Elite Midget wrote...

Just because you make a huge blot of nonsensual text doesn't mean your point is reinforced, OP. I respect your opinion but I will let you know you're in the minority and the thing you're trying to stir up isn't going to come out the pot as intended.

How condescending of you. Instead of debating my points, you troll. Just because I'm in the minority, or even perceived minority, doesn't mean I'm wrong. Hell, most of the people who play the game don't even post on the forums or see these threads.

[Humakt83]

Good job with the red flags, but you missed few. Also we likely need a proper sticky thread that showcases in the first post every warning and subtle hint regarding indoctrination theory.

Modifié par Humakt83, 14 mars 2012 - 08:37 .

[saracen16]

Nina88 wrote...

You are right, OP, it all comes down to how you interpret the ending. Here is mine, and perhaps you will understand why I profoundly disliked the ending.

At least you're being civil about it.

I appreciate that.

An ending is not good because it makes you think. An ending is good if it brings sufficient closure.

Does it have to provide closure? Even then, I felt that the whole game itself provided closure. I felt that ME3 provided closure for all the races throughout the game. Were you there when the genophage was cured or perpetuated? Wasn't that closure? Were you there when the Quarians and the Geth made peace? Wasn't that closure? There is no way they, the devs, can bring all these plot and subplot endings and form them into one singular ending to provide closure KER-SPLAT. The game itself provided sufficient closure for all the sub-plots and plots. It can't monstrously do them all at once at the end of the game. It let you care about the future of your own galaxy.

Is Shepard indoctrinated? I believe that theory, from the minute he was hit by Harbinger’s beam until he chooses Destroy and wakes up under the rubble on Earth. I can’t otherwise explain how he gets from the Citadel to Earth

We don't know that. Maybe the pile of rubble we see is on the Citadel that crash-landed to Earth. We're not shown much else. Shepard survived an attack by a Collector ship and he's partly

or why the Normandy was fleeing with my teleporting unscathed Earth mission companions on board, so I am assuming the fight against indoctrination covers the entire Citadel sequence and the following relay explosion/Normandy fleeing/Eden world sequence. So what is my ending? Shepard is disabled under the rubble and the Reapers remain undefeated. If I grasp at straws, I could assume the allied fleet ends up victorious, but seeing how utterly inefficient they have been so far, that’s one very thin and fragile straw.

The Reapers were defeated: they were either controlled, destroyed, or synthesized. The indoctrination altered Shepard's perception. He maintained control, and the Catalyst in the end realized that he made a mistake with the Reapers. His logic was that he could preserve life in Reaper form to prevent it from being destroyed by synthetics.

The Reapers were the good guys. I believe in self-determination and not in a higher power that dictates the fate of the universe. Particularly when that deity would choose periodic mass murder as a means to an end. Wouldn’t it be better to educate rather than annihilate? It’s incredibly bleak to assume that organics cannot learn from their own mistakes and history. As such, I find that interpretation unsatisfactory for my own belief system.

I, too, believe in self-determination, but this revelation made me question my beliefs about self-determination. But come to think of it, at least you felt something: you felt that what the Reapers were doing were blasphemous. Isn't that something?

Was the galaxy saved or destroyed? Again, completely open to interpretation. Based on Arrival, I automatically assumed the galaxies were destroyed, particularly as on the map you see the shockwave, not just the relays disappearing. I suppose I could headcannon that shockwave as just disabling Reapers, but it doesn’t change the grim fate of the species other than human that will most likely die of starvation in the Sol system. Nor the fact that the Mass Effect universe as I know and love it is destroyed.

We don't know that they starved. We don't know that technology has been wiped out. Sure, it's bleak, but organics have risen to the occasion before, and they will evolve, adapt, and survive. The capacity for sentience makes it possible. At least, that's what I think.

Lastly, there is a point of dissatisfaction for me you do not cover, and that is the lack of closure for the crew. These characters are one of the reasons I grew so attached to Mass Effect, and for them, there is nothing. Again, this is personal and you might not share the sentiment, but for those of us who do, the lack of closure is a huge disappointment.

I disagree: there is sufficient closure, and I'll give you an example. Wrex and I ended up as battle brothers (he even said that to me before I went to the shroud), and having Maelon's cure saved Eve, meaning that she could act as a balancing influence against his imperialistic urges. We are left guessing as to what might happen, but truly, there is no closure in real life. There is closure with regards to sub-plots and situations, yes, but it showed you that Wrex and Eve were living things, and their lives went on after the genophage. Mordin gave you an idea that Eve will be a stabilizing influence against Wrex, and that was enough closure from my part. I was glad that I helped my friend Wrex. In fact, I cried.

Here's more. I was happy that Jack escaped with her "children" and raised them to be biotics, and I was happier to find that she finally found a place in her life where she is her own master: as an instructor. As for Miranda, I was more than satisfied to see her and Orianna rid themselves of their perverted father's influence for good. Jacob found his own purpose in family. Mordin ended his life redeeming himself. Legion sacrificed himself to help save the Quarians and the Geth, and I mourned him as well, but he died for a greater cause. The fact that he called himself "I" before he died comes to show how personal he became. Even smaller examples: when the Elcor diplomat was asked about whether he saved any civilians, he said "Yes". He didn't explain his speech pattern like he did before and like all elcor did before. When he was asked how many, he said "Not enough." That itself was powerful, because the words already express his sadness.

At least that's what I think.

So yes, I have THOUGHT about the ending, and NO, I still do not like it.

And I'm glad you were at least being civil about it.

[saracen16]

Aligalipe wrote...

I really respect your opinion, and I'm happy for you that you' re satisfied with the endings, I'm going to quote myself here.
"I think it would be fair to say that we' re entitled to what we' re promised. Bioware promised us a closure, lots of different endings. We didn't get these things, and what we get (I'm not talking about the rest of the game) was poor quality, a rushed ending. Bad explanations. We don't want them to change the endings they created. We want better quality, better narrative, more options. We don't want to "pick" our endings. Most importantly we want those options to reflect our choices."

Thank you, and you have a right to demand it. I may disagree with what you say, though I will defend to the death your right to say it.

The Endings themselves we get weren't bad I give you that. But 1 minute conversation with the star Child, Shepard doesn't get an option to defend his point of view and can't try to convince it that its wrong. And as I said before it simply gives us choices to pick. Normandy crew gets stranded on a planet in every choice we make. Now I'm going to write some questions here, Try to answer them. You don't have to write answers to them. Just answer them yourself.

What do my squadmates that were beside me a minute ago do on the Normandy?

We don't know what happens to them at the start of the beam sequence. The ending made it clear: they got to the Normandy because Shepard was about to blow another thing up again (to quote Rana Thanoptis).

Why does Normandy go to a Mass Relay and try to run? No one on that ship are cowards.

There's a difference between bravery and foolishness. The most basic program of organics is self-preservation. I'd sure as hell hitch a ride out of doge when things are going haywire. And Joker is the best damn pilot the Alliance has.

How does my EMS effect Anderson living and dying at the hands of TIM?

It doesn't. Your choices do. It's just that in the end, you realize that no matter how much you've done, you're only human, and so are the characters. In Mass Effect, a lot of things have been chosen for us, such as the Quarians fighting the Geth, but we can only choose the outcomes of the dilemmas we are handed.

These are the ones I could think of in 2 minutes. And I doubt that you can find good answers for them, because they are plot holes and inconsistencies( I hope I wrote that one right..)

I wouldn't call them plot holes. I'd call them subjective experiences, and I'm a convert to the indoctrination theory.

[HowlingSiren]

What I boils down to, OP, is the impression the game leaves you with after your own interpretation, which by definition is heavily impacted by your own experience, your own way of rationalizing information and your own personality, and whether that impression was satisfying to you. In your case, it was, in my case, it wasn't.

Every point can be argued and counter-argued ad infinitam. That's the lack of closure I was refering to and that I personally dislike, and the risk with these open endings. I suppose BioWare assumed that by leaving the end open, every player would find the explanation they required to be satisfied, but judging from the polls, that attempt failed. I count myself lucky that I can believe in the Indoctrination theory, otherwise I'd be confused as hell. But I respect the fact others don't, and why wouldn't I be civil with someone who enjoyed the ending? If anything, I'm jealous!

[Lankist]

I did think about it, and I concluded that it was lazy, dishonest and inconclusive.

Since when do I have to pay $60 to use my imagination? I'd be thinking about the ending no matter how it ending. Had it ended well, I'd be thinking about it well. But it ended nonchalantly with a clear lack of effort, concern or forethought, and that's all I can think about it.

Here's the thing: After ME1 and 2 I can't tell you how many awesome conversations I had with tons of people about the things that happened in the game. Lots of what-ifs and "wait, you did what's?" These are not the conversations I am having now. Even if the goal was to create a thought-provoking ending, it is a failure, because the only thoughts I and those I've spoken with have been "so it really is possible to ruin everything in the last five minutes, isn't it?" The conversations aren't about the story, they're about the meta-story, the story of how a feigned attempt at artistic ambiguity resulted in an ending so spectacularly bad that there really is nothing left to talk about.

Modifié par Lankist, 14 mars 2012 - 09:12 .

[Hudathan]

Can we all just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[Lankist]

Hudathan wrote...

Can we all just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Most of the people asking for new endings are not asking for the existing endings to be done away with, or the people who legitimately enjoyed those endings to be dismissed off-hand. Just more things. More options, more outcomes, more details, and perhaps an epilogue (even if it's just a slide-show with some text.)

The beauty of interactive fiction as a medium is that you CAN have your cake and eat it to. You can have the artistic grimdark ending AND the Disney ending. You can have all of the things in between. You do not need to think within one particular box, you can put them all in there.

I know Bioware probably worries about canon, but honestly who cares? This is the end of our Shepards' stories. So what if they go so far as to establish some sort of official canon, that doesn't necessarily devalue the player's canon, and it's no reason not to take full advantage of the medium's immense flexibility. KOTOR got its own official canon after a while, but that doesn't change what your Revan did and what you saw and heard in your own story.

The issue is that you cannot say this is the player's story while still maintaining that it is the writer's story. It's both. You can have both. You can do both. You can do anything at all with how the story ends, tailor it to as many people as you feel is necessary.
 

Modifié par Lankist, 14 mars 2012 - 09:33 .

[Fail_Inc]

Please someone who thinks the ending is flawless tell me why my LI who is hit by Harbinger's lazer (and killed most probably) in London is somehow in Normandy and looks perfectly fine. Dead bodies are around us hell even Shepard is messed up but our LIs are OK.

Modifié par Fail_Inc, 14 mars 2012 - 09:33 .

[saracen16]

Lankist wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

Can we all just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Most of the people asking for new endings are not asking for the existing endings to be done away with, or the people who legitimately enjoyed those endings to be dismissed off-hand. Just more things. More options, more outcomes, more details, and perhaps an epilogue (even if it's just a slide-show with some text.)

The beauty of interactive fiction as a medium is that you CAN have your cake and eat it to. You can have the artistic grimdark ending AND the Disney ending. You can have all of the things in between. You do not need to think within one particular box, you can put them all in there.

I know Bioware probably worries about canon, but honestly who cares? This is the end of our Shepards' stories. So what if they go so far as to establish some sort of official canon, that doesn't necessarily devalue the player's canon, and it's no reason not to take full advantage of the medium's immense flexibility. KOTOR got its own official canon after a while, but that doesn't change what your Revan did and what you saw and heard in your own story.

The issue is that you cannot say this is the player's story while still maintaining that it is the writer's story. It's both. You can have both. You can do both. You can do anything at all with how the story ends, tailor it to as many people as you feel is necessary.
 

I'm glad someone else is seeing this in a different light. BioWare made this game, and it's their right to do whatever they want. I hope they don't give in to the emotional blackmailing that is the Child's Play donation (good cause, but bad intention), and that they don't give in to those who feel self-entitled. Many movies have sad endings, and it's the creator's right to do whatever the **** he wants and not give two damns about what other people, including myself, say.

[Spectre Impersonator]

kcitee1 wrote...

Have a look at this...


http://www.oxm.co.uk...-sophisticated/

Yeah... they said our choices would matter to the ending. Did they? No.

[LadyofRivendell]

Okay, but what about Shepard? Kaidan? Joker? Liara? Garrus? Tali? EDI? We got no closure on their situations, and the characters are really the heart of Mass Effect.

[Spectre Impersonator]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Okay, but what about Shepard? Kaidan? Joker? Liara? Garrus? Tali? EDI? We got no closure on their situations, and the characters are really the heart of Mass Effect.

Exactly... something as vague as the krogan race being saved means very little without character context... which we were not given.

[Sc2mashimaro]

I find it interesting that people who seem to view ME3 as a whole to be "the end" are fairly satisfied, but I have the sneaking suspicion they dislike the last few minutes as much as the rest of us (for the most part).

I spent a lot of time thinking about the ending. Here's the only ending that seems to have any chance of being true: Shepard indoctrinated and KIA. Reapers won. At least it's a little poetic and it doesn't seem to negate everything I tried to do so fully since now the story is a tragedy, which fits with the traditional "epic" better than RGB god-child does.