205 réponses à ce sujet

[Tangster]

I thought about the ending, and each time I did I spiraled further into a deep, dark depression. I then went to sleep and my mind retconned the ending in my dreams.

[GreenDragon37]

saracen16 wrote...

This is just my opinion. I LOVED the endings. I thought they were amazing. Why is that? Because they raise many questions.

Wait, what?

BioWare stated that they wanted the ending to answer questions, not raise more! You just admitted they failed to deliever on that promise... or blatantly lie.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 15 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[Nobrandminda]

saracen16 wrote...

To be honest, I haven't read this article, but it realizes everything that I said! Unfortunately, the majority of ME3 fans here don't understand that or don't have the time to think about it.

But what do you think about your ending?

I'm glad you enjoy how open to interpretation the ending is.

My problem with it though is that I don't think these are the right kinds of questions to be asking.  We should be talking about how we think the Quarian/geth conflict is going to play out.  We should be talking about what we think the Normandy crew is going to do.  In short, we should be looking at everything that's happened throughout the game and saying, "Where do you think these characters are going to go from here?"

We shouldn't be asking "To what degree are the quarians screwed?  It's a given that they are screwed, it's just a matter of degree."  Because the ending manages to so completely subplant every other decision that came before it.  And there are so many unfortunate implications to the ending that no matter what your question is, the answer is, "Well, they're probably dead or stranded, so it doesn't matter."

Yes, you can have an ending that's bleak and leaves questions unanswered (John Carpenter's The Thing or They Live come to mind).  But the difference is that a John Carpenter movie actually builds up to their ending.  With ME3, it just comes out of left field and wipes the slate clean of everything that came before it.

[ChopyChopZ]

So basically you want us to make believe the ending? I've seen some desperate ideas but you sir take the cake.If you want to keep living in denial OK,just don't go around saying the ending was good.

[Roses_Dilemma]

I guess I am the only one who liked the endings? My main complaint is that they weren't long enough. The complains about not having a "happy" ending fall on deaf ears here.

But, then, my favourite ME2 ending was where Shepard died.

[McScroggz24]

Saracen16 if you are still paying attention to this post, are you advocating that any game company, especially one built of great story and player choices, can simply make an ending that goes against so many established aspects of the trilogy and their own gameplay for the sake of "artistic integrity
?"

Because if it is ok, then what's to stop other companies from ending popular games with controversial ending/s for the sake of publicity?

[Sc2mashimaro]

Roses_Dilemma wrote...

I guess I am the only one who liked the endings? My main complaint is that they weren't long enough. The complains about not having a "happy" ending fall on deaf ears here.

But, then, my favourite ME2 ending was where Shepard died.

Happy has nothing to do with the complaint, although many people have expressed that they would have liked a "happy, sappy ending" as an option. The problem is that we all thought our choices would be reflected back at us in the ending and that we would have a "moment" of conclusion for Shepard and all the characters. If Shepard dies, for instance, a couple seconds of intercut video with his death scene of his lover "sensing" that something is wrong and the fight involving (visually) the assets you brought with you to the fight. Reactions and/or euologies showing that Shepard's sacrifice meant something. A fight breaking out to show that the universe is still the universe. Joker saying something clever and then cut to credits. THAT would have meant something. This was meaningless "art-house" balogna that everyone had to make up their own rationals for what happened. That's not story-telling that's just throwing sounds and images at the audience and hoping something sticks.

[KevTheGamer]

I didnt buy the game to imagine my own ending at the end of it. I bought it to see a story and be apart of a story. If I wanted to make up a story I would have written a book. I like the interactive elements of the ME series a lot but I wanted to be given a full complete ending with what happened afterward as well since this is in fact THE END

[Menagra]

Dranume wrote...

Yet another post implying that the Fan base of ME3 are too dimwitted to figure out the endings. sigh....

There is a big difference in understanding and not liking....

This comment diserves and applaud track.

[Stannis189]

The problem with the ending isn't just that they come out of nowhere thematically (whole series was about free will vs. indoctrination, not about organics v. synthetics), seem rushed (no final boss fight, no cinematics/any visual or dialog markers showing how the different war assets you acquired play into the ending), or that they manage to combine the two worst tools of storytelling in one (a mcguffin and a deus ex machina). It's also that if you look at the ending as compared to the entire trilogy, it seems lazy in its storytelling technique and antithetical to the moral world of Mass Effect which is based on the paragon/renegade divide.

A much more interesting ending worthy of the series would have been to rework the final act to eliminate the Illusive Man as indoctrinated subplot and actually give you a viable option of working with Cerberus at the end as the "renegade" choice to the final act. You would still have the Alliance option as the "paragon" and the final levels would reflect that decision, thus actually making your decisions through the games play a role in the ending of the trilogy (for example, you would need almost full renegade morality to work with Cerberus and perhaps you would have to end up killing some of your closest alien allies in the final act as a result). Then Bioware could have stuck with the Crucible as giant gun idea (which makes sense, the Protheans were incredibly advanced technologically and spent centuries fighting the Reapers according to the lore, so they could feasibly have discovered many of their enemies's weaknesses). The end of the game would then mark the culmination of the theme of unity vs. individual interest (ie. galactic v.. human) and could easily incorporate a mechanic that uses collected war assets to decide what kind of ending you get (Shep survives, Earth is destroyed but Reapers are defeated, etc, etc). Then you could get a DA: O/Fallout style epilogue that projects into the future to tell you how your choices worked out. I apologize for the block of text but I honestly think that the series would have been better served had it forced you to make a moral choice in the lead up to the final mission and then had the ending of the game play out as the reflection of that choice and of all the others made before it. That way, player choice plays an important role in the conclusion of the ME trilogy just as it did throughout all of its chapters and you are not just stuck choosing a color option at the end and feeling that you only had "one" ending.

[saracen16]

McScroggz24 wrote...

Saracen16 if you are still paying attention to this post, are you advocating that any game company, especially one built of great story and player choices, can simply make an ending that goes against so many established aspects of the trilogy and their own gameplay for the sake of "artistic integrity?"

FYI, I AM paying attention to every single post, and I just don't have the time to respond to most of them because most are repetitive iterations of the arguments I answered earlier in this thread. However, yours is different, so I will respond. No, that is not what I am
advocating. What I am advocating is that every company involved in
entertainment has the right to produce whatever the **** they want and
not give 2 damns about the audience. But BioWare listened and provided
sufficient closure if not complete closure for most if not all of the
characters in context of your relationship with them.  Hell, the best writing in history only achieved a minimal sense of closure, and too much closure makes the story forgettable and cliche.

What "established aspects" are you talking about? Who the hell are you (or anyone for that matter, including myself) to tell me (or you, or anyone for that matter) what to think and vice-versa about a game that is supposed to be personal? There have been no established themes. BioWare deliberately made it such that it is open to interpretation. People find different meaning in the game because all the devs did was write out character interactions. YOU are the one who is supposed to be making that decision for YOURSELF and not anyone else. God forbid that I have another fan's view shoved down my throat, because then the personalization of this experience would be lost. I want my experience to stay unique, and BioWare did a most admirable, novel, and revolutionary job at that. Many people fail to realize it because a lot of them are probably too busy to play just one game.

I found many themes in the game such as religion, the issue of evolution and backroom politics, etc. Other people have found different things. If you want to limit a video game to concepts and marketing ploys disguised as "promises", then you have failed to enjoy the game to its fullest, instead treating it as another product and downgrading its value to something that isn't unique. BioWare clearly stated that Mass Effect is an experience of YOUR own creation and interpretation. You feel that the universe is real and you react to it. You ceased to become a passive gamer and instead become an active one.

Because if it is ok, then what's to stop other companies from ending popular games with controversial ending/s for the sake of publicity?

Who said they were doing this for the sake of publicity alone? Controversy is good if you think about it. It's called freedom of expression. Art. You're free to like it or hate it. To limit the experience to something fans make for others... to have other people think for you... would lose the purpose of the product. And in fact, I'd encourage more companies to heed BioWare's example and craft universes that are personal to you and you alone, and you interpret the events based on what's going on and what has been given to you (i.e. the Codex).

[saracen16]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

This is just my opinion. I LOVED the endings. I thought they were amazing. Why is that? Because they raise many questions.

Wait, what?

BioWare stated that they wanted the ending to answer questions, not raise more! You just admitted they failed to deliever on that promise... or blatantly lie.

No, they didn't lie. They specifically said that ME3 would be the end of Shepard's story, not the franchise. They provided SUFFICIENT closure to Shepard's relationships with his crewmates and other characters. And many questions as to why the galaxy is what it is have already been answered throughout the game: Vendetta on Thessia, the Catalyst on the Citadel, the Prothean Javik, the Quarian/Geth relationship. They couldn't humanly do that in the last 10 minutes because as a story it will FAIL to be memorable. The whole game WAS the ending, so please have a memory slightly longer than 10 minutes.

[saracen16]

ChopyChopZ wrote...

So basically you want us to make believe the ending? I've seen some desperate ideas but you sir take the cake.If you want to keep living in denial OK,just don't go around saying the ending was good.

Don't patronize me and put words in my mouth. I'm asking you to THINK about the ending based on the choices YOU made (that's right, YOU and NOT ANYONE ELSE), not make-believe it. There's a line between make-believe and asking questions because one attempts to warp reality and shove it down everyone's throats while the other asks you to consider your experience of the trliogy as a whole. Read my OP again instead of insulting me with blanket statements.

Honestly, the fact that BioWare made me think back to all my decisions I made in ME1 is not a betrayal of the trilogy. No. It honored it. You people should be ashamed of yourselves for wanting to shove an impersonal ending down other people's throats.

[Lyrandori]

Problem in itself isn't the endings we do have, it's that we had no power to get to any of the three endings we do have. The nature of the threat, Reapers, meant basically that the main theme of the ME's universe, game-play-wise, being that of making choices and seeing their consequences, was ultimately impossible to achieve for ME3's end. That's what it implies. That even if BioWare wanted us the players to make choices and carve "our own Shepard's endings" since that was the way the games worked, that they themselves (BioWare) realized that specifically for ME3's ending(s) there could be no choices made by Shepard for "real closure" of the trilogy to happen.

In the end, whether we "get closure" or not from the endings that we do have isn't the main issue, it's due to the fact that the lore itself mean that the main game-play mechanic of the entire trilogy would have to go poof because the lore doesn't allow it after all. In other words, that Reapers are basically SO SUPER-MEGA powerful, that the developers couldn't think of any other endings that would justify giving our Shepards choices that would ultimately lead to many more endings, which in themselves would have made the Reapers just as miserable as a Vorcha to deal against.

[ket_shee]

*rubs his temples*

Side stepping the conversation altogether, let me ask the OP a question.

What are you hoping to gain, arguing with the camp of fans who dislikes/hates the ending? And if you can suffer a few others, why are you objecting other people shoving an impersonal ending down other people's throats when you yourself are shoving the ending we were given down ours?

It can NOT be so hard to imagine that some people will have different perceptions than you. It doesn't show a difference in thought, intelligence, or consideration. It's a matter of preference.

And a lot of people I've talked to prefer a different ending.

[saracen16]

Tangster wrote...

I thought about the ending, and each time I did I spiraled further into a deep, dark depression. I then went to sleep and my mind retconned the ending in my dreams.

Oh, for God's sake, have a memory longer than 5 minutes and reconsider how the galaxy will be like after the ending given all the choices you have made in the previous two games. It's YOUR galaxy, not anyone elses.

[Piarath]

No. I will not 'screw' their promises. No, putting it in bold text doesn't make you right. If you promise a product and you do not deliver, I have every right to demand the product be delivered as promised or to take my business elsewhere. Don't like that? Tough.

And no, the endings didn't get closure. "The krogan got closure with the cure of the genophage [...]" and so forth is not CLOSURE. Where is the closure to the GAME? If you can ask all these questions and are left wondering, then it's a fact that your narrative did not offer CLOSURE. Why was Joker fleeing the battle? How did my downed squad get back on the Normandy? Why didn't the destruction of the relays destroy the galaxy? These are plot holes.

There are easily reaching into the thousands of posts that have stated WHY the endings are bad and poorly written with hard logic, sound reasoning, and actual evidence. Refusing to address those issues, sticking your fingers in your ears, and screaming at everyone that you liked it so they MUST be wrong is just a lack of objectivity and open-mindedness. You liked the endings; fine, I respect that.

I, and a good many other people (at least 40K+) do NOT like the endings and none of the reasons you've stated actually addresses the reasons why we don't nor changes our mind.

And as a final side note; in the first game you're outright told the Reapers aren't unstoppable. They kill organic life so easily because the Citadel is a huge trap. They use it to shut down all the relays so only THEY can use them, isolating galaxies to pick them off one by one (a process Vigil points out takes decades). They're shown to be VERY much things that can be destroyed. Hell, you destroy one in the VERY. FIRST. GAME. In fact, a United Galaxy could easily match them and possibly overcome them, which is why they need the whole Indoctrination schtick in the first place, and is the driving motive for their reason of needing to kill Shepard and stop him/her from uniting said Galaxy- which was, you may recall, a MAJOR PLOT ELEMENT OF THE STORY.

I'm supposed to believe in space magic instead of the hard work and dedication we've spent two games putting up? That's the only way to beat the Reapers? Well, if that satisfies YOU, more power to you. Me? I'll hold the line.

[deathscythe517]

Once more, it's people like you who break the free market economy. A business is not a person, it does not need defending, an interactive medium cannot be art, I'm sorry, but it can't. It is suppose to be entertaining - be that purely fun gameplay or a coherent story with a wonderful finale.

Sadly, Bioware missed the mark on the coherent story up till the end, it's like riding a roller coaster while somehow maintaining the ability to read a pick-your-own-adventure novel, but at the end when you get off the ride some random person runs out of nowhere and punches you in the face then takes your book.

[daguest]

saracen16 wrote...

Tangster wrote...

I thought about the ending, and each time I did I spiraled further into a deep, dark depression. I then went to sleep and my mind retconned the ending in my dreams.

Oh, for God's sake, have a memory longer than 5 minutes and reconsider how the galaxy will be like after the ending given all the choices you have made in the previous two games. It's YOUR galaxy, not anyone elses.

I dunno, I'd say destroyed, because every mass realy of the gaalxy went kaboom, which mean some kind of supernova in each system.... But don't worry, joker have survived. 
Ok you may argue the god child, with space magic (he is pro with space magic) spare everyone from the explosion. So, we have an entire fleet of millions of people, and dozens of species strangled in sol. No communications in the galaxy. No mass relay. No governements. Billions dead. Planets all over the galaxy in ruins.
I don't know, but the only ending I see after this is pretty grim. I'd say in a matter of days, every species will fight for survival.

[Miphious]

What I got from the ending was that I shouldn't have laid down real money in order to use my own imagination to put together an ending for the ME universe. I paid $80 (Digital Deluxe) to be left with answers, not to be left with "use your imagination".

It's really disrespectful to tell everyone they're wrong just because you were happy with the ending and what you got out of it and that they must not have taken long enough to think about it. Most of the people here have been thinking about it for almost a week, as evidenced by well-made complaints with real points to complain about.

By the way, I liked the ending, save for the 'use your imagination' for what happens to everyone else bit. Notice that I didn't bother to discredit anyone who didn't like the ending? That's called respect. Try it some time.

[teff]

The ending downright sucked.. End of discussion..

[saracen16]

deathscythe517 wrote...

Once more, it's people like you who break the free market economy. A business is not a person, it does not need defending, an interactive medium cannot be art, I'm sorry, but it can't. It is suppose to be entertaining - be that purely fun gameplay or a coherent story with a wonderful finale.

Sadly, Bioware missed the mark on the coherent story up till the end, it's like riding a roller coaster while somehow maintaining the ability to read a pick-your-own-adventure novel, but at the end when you get off the ride some random person runs out of nowhere and punches you in the face then takes your book.

Let me tell you something. The story has been very coherent from start to finish, and you have to pay close attention to all the details as to what is happenning. It's not the developer's fault if you didn't like the ending. It's YOURS.

So, yeah, **** the free market economy.

Modifié par saracen16, 15 mars 2012 - 09:21 .

[LegendaryBlade]

Yo dawg, I heard you didn't want to be destroyed by synthetics so I make synthetics to destroy you every 50,000 years so you wont be destroyed by synthetics.

I mean, listen bro, I know you don't know anything about me and I basically bold facedly told you that I AM THE REAPERS, but you should listen to me and pick your favorite color to die too.

[Cody211282]

So you like the endings because you can't wrap your head around them.

Well thats great for you but the rest of us want something that makes sense.

[saracen16]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Yo dawg, I heard you didn't want to be destroyed by synthetics so I make synthetics to destroy you every 50,000 years so you wont be destroyed by synthetics.

I mean, listen bro, I know you don't know anything about me and I basically bold facedly told you that I AM THE REAPERS, but you should listen to me and pick your favorite color to die too.

I'm sorry, but that argument fails beyond all recognition because you fail to see beyond what's shown to you. As for the Reaper motivation, it was clear: they want organic life to continue by preserving the races who have just reached a technological singularity where they have created or can create synthetic AI's that can wipe out all organics in Reaper form. You're taking it TOO LITERALLY.

Modifié par saracen16, 15 mars 2012 - 09:20 .