205 réponses à ce sujet

[saracen16]

Cody211282 wrote...

So you like the endings because you can't wrap your head around them.

Well thats great for you but the rest of us want something that makes sense.

You didn't even read my OP. You just took what you thought satisfied your argument and baited me. The ending does make sense, and it leaves me wondering about the fate of my galaxy. The possibilities in the context of the lore is virtually limitless.

[fpspind]

"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C."

"A,B,C"

That's exactly what we got. NUFF SAID.

Modifié par fpspind, 15 mars 2012 - 09:53 .

[LegendaryBlade]

In all seriousness, everything after the magic space elevator is terrible. You've probably heard the term Deus Ex Machina thrown around a bit, it's literal translation is God from the Machine and it's a literary term. The entire series is wrapped up by an out-of-nowhere godlike character that very suddenly and jarringly gives you a plot dump and then concludes the story.

That's not even the real problem with the end though. The reaper's motivation makes little to no sense, everything the Starchild tells you about 'Organics and Synthetics cannot coexist' is already disproven by that point, and all the while you can't do anything about it. There is no investigate option, no interrupt, you just blindly do what the Starchild tells you. It gets a lot worse though.

We were told, several times, that the endings would not be a cookie cutter A.B.C choice, and as close to right as they got is that instead of A.B.C it's BLUE.GREEN.RED. It's also just lazy that the cutscene after you make this decision is almost identical regardless of the decision, at least in Mass Effect 1 whether or not you saved the council changed the first half of the cutscene.

Every decision you make throughout the game is entirely discarded, none of it affects the finalmoments outside of the EMS bar. And even that only decides if you get the green decision, and if you get the three second shot of Shepard breathing.

I have even spoken of the plot holes and inconsistencies. All the foreshadowing from Haestrom about Dark Matter is thrown out the window, the entire conversation with Sovereign in ME1 is completely discarded, people TELEPORT back to the Normandy which defies one in a billion odds and crashlands on a random life sustaining planet.

The fact that fans have clung to the Indoctrination theory is a BAD THING, because it shows that we're so desperate to believe things are not how they are at face value that we'll attach ourselves to the greatest longshot hoping it's the truth of the matter. Indoctrination could of been done well, if it was ALREADY INCLUDED IN THE GAME instead of a DLC that we may get MONTHS later.

[Dougremer]

saracen16:

I hear you. I totally agree with that you should think about the ending, I have done that, believe me. First I was in rage, but I'm calmer now. In some ways it's beautiful (it looks so good) and if it was a movie I would like it, but I want more than beauty from this game, I wan't personality that has been giving to me through out the series. That is my opinion at least.

I saw the last game as a big ending as well. It's weird not to since everyone says good bye through the whole game. But all that seems pointless, not because I die or that everyone dies. It's because the ending doesn't fade out and gives a sheering thought. Your in the middle of the biggest fight in the galaxy, everything comes down to this and then a god child decide what you need to do. You make up your mind, the galaxy is screwed or not (who cares anyway now?) and your crew crash lands on a planet somewhere. For me that is not personality, that is some good looking clips with dramatic piano music. If I wanted to have this kind of ending I just watch a movie like Donnie Darko (and even that movie gives you hope).

Then it ends with him/her taking one last or first breath. Thanks for going Interception on me, that is so fresh and "new". I will not bash BW and say I hate them cause I don't. The series is still very good. But I really thought they had the skills to make it better than this.

Time will tell if I'm right or wrong. But up until this moment I think they fell on the finish line.

Modifié par Dougremer, 15 mars 2012 - 10:13 .

[Piarath]

saracen16 wrote...

Let me tell you something. The story has been very coherent from start to finish, and you have to pay close attention to all the details as to what is happenning. It's not the developer's fault if you didn't like the ending. It's YOURS.

So, yeah, **** the free market economy.

The ending is NOT coherent, filled with plotholes and LACKS detail, as people have outlined with sound logic. It's not OUR fault you blissfully ignore that to justify your purchase rather than be a responsible consumer (seriously? You're going to say that about a free market economy? No wonder you got taken so easily; I have a toaster to sell you, made it myself- modern art. Doesn't work, but that's ok with you).

I'm glad you enjoyed the ending, and I'm glad you chose to intepret it in a way that satisfies you. Personally? The only interpretation I feel I can be left with, if I want to draw from reasonable conclusions, is that we lost the fight with the Reapers- the destruction of a Mass Relay destroys whole Solar Systems, and we blew them ALL up. Including the biggest one. Anything that's left is probably a minimalistic settling that's likely just crawling itself out of the Mass Effect world's equivilent of a dark ages since we just NUKED the basis of all technology and economy in the galaxy.

I'd rather buy the Indoctrination theory, but that also means- until DLC is released to expand on it- that as things stand the Reapers won. Seeing as my squad died and I was indoctrinated.

Yeah, that's all enjoyable, even if looking past the plot holes.

[Jagatay]

Thinking about my ending....

Shephard is running down..... Liara (His Love interest) and Ashley was supposed to be with him..I mean at least they were up until that moment. Then I guess, Liara saw that Shephard was hit by Harbinger and she decided that it was a good time to give a call to Joker to bring Normandy down to earth to grab her and run away. ...come on...

[Daverid]

fpspind wrote...

"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C."

"A,B,C"

That's exactly what we got. NUFF SAID.

QUOTED FOR F***ING TRUTH

It's article's like these which make me believe more and more that the Whole Dream type Theory is correct because there's no way they could have looked at the Endings that are sitting in the game right now.. And still had the balls to say that in a Interview, that occured Mid January .. Considering they said the game was finished 2-3 months before it's Release Date .. The ending was complete and Ready to go by the time of that interview

[saracen16]

Piarath wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Let me tell you something. The story has been very coherent from start to finish, and you have to pay close attention to all the details as to what is happenning. It's not the developer's fault if you didn't like the ending. It's YOURS.

So, yeah, **** the free market economy.

The ending is NOT coherent, filled with plotholes and LACKS detail, as people have outlined with sound logic.

You're a parrot who's spewing self-righteous BS. You're repeating that same garbage Gamefront article that I debunked earlier in this thread.... and no one has yet to respond to that. I'm not going to dignify the rest of your post with an answer.

[saracen16]

fpspind wrote...

"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C."

"A,B,C"

That's exactly what we got. NUFF SAID.

If that's what you saw, then you're discarding the rest of the game. BioWare stated that this was no traditional ending: that the entire game was the ending to a MASSIVE trilogy that has NEVER been undertaken before. If you read the other posts in this thread, you'll find that your endings REALLY DO MATTER.

I don't have to repeat myself.

[ediskrad327]

oh i will, everything after the crucible connects to the citadel never happened, the reapers got destroyed without killing the geth nor the relays nor EDI and everyone lived happily ever after....the end

[saracen16]

ediskrad327 wrote...

oh i will, everything after the crucible connects to the citadel never happened, the reapers got destroyed without killing the geth nor the relays nor EDI and everyone lived happily ever after....the end

That's not what I said nor implied. The story has been given to you, and you should interpret it and hypothesize.

Don't act stubbornly and miss the entire point of my OP.

[Spectre_Shepard]

I didn't have an ending. they're all the same

[saracen16]

LegendaryBlade wrote...
~snip~

You were told this, you were told that... You believe these marketing plots disguised as promises too much, don't you?

[MassFrank]

There is a difference between "like/don't like" and good. You like the endings, you are very fortunate in that. The reasons people are opposing them, has more to do with the fact that the ending is isolated, inconsistent with the narrative, ignores events that have just occurred, ignores actual player choices and introduces a new underdeveloped character (literally and figuratively) that sums the game by turning it into a galactic game-show.

[Erriiieeee]

The ending could've worked if Bioware's writers took the time to realize all the plot holes within the ending. It's not the lack of choice that bothers me, but the evidence that points to the ending being rushed. Can't blame Bioware for just saying the ending is open to interpretation, kinda like just slapping abstract on any piece of art that escapes definition.

Sticking with the same ending but with changes:
-EMS should've been better developed, I've watched all the endings and the only difference between Earth being saved or destroyed is a 2 second difference in what the explosion kills/changes.It should tie in with your squad mates as well instead of just showing all them abandoning you at the vital moment just to get stranded on a random planet. Logically the two squadmates you picked should've been dead regardless.

- I understand the whole concept of choosing similar endings but honestly they ALL end the same way except the color of the explosion. Bioware could spent a little more time fleshing each ending out so they actually felt like different endings. ME2, the suicide mission looks completely different if you went ill-prepared.

-Logical change, I think Shepard needs to die regardless of his/her choice since the Citadel either seals up or explodes, goes with the bleak ending that Bioware wants without creating a gigantic plot hole as to how Shepard ends up back on Earth.

That's all I would want and the ending would've been perfect.

-

[saracen16]

MassFrank wrote...

There is a difference between "like/don't like" and good.

No, there isn't. Saying an ending is "good" is subjective. I didn't like the ending of Star Wars because I thought it was too cliched. Subsequently, I felt that it was a bad ending. Don't try to objectify an opinion.

[Piarath]

saracen16 wrote...

I don't have to repeat myself.

Repeating yourself is all you apparently do. It's one thing to SAY you debunked it, another to actually have done so. Nice try though, and nice way to prove 'your side' has all the immature kids for once.

[FabricatedWookie]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

In all seriousness, everything after the magic space elevator is terrible. You've probably heard the term Deus Ex Machina thrown around a bit, it's literal translation is God from the Machine and it's a literary term. The entire series is wrapped up by an out-of-nowhere godlike character that very suddenly and jarringly gives you a plot dump and then concludes the story.

That's not even the real problem with the end though. The reaper's motivation makes little to no sense, everything the Starchild tells you about 'Organics and Synthetics cannot coexist' is already disproven by that point, and all the while you can't do anything about it. There is no investigate option, no interrupt, you just blindly do what the Starchild tells you. It gets a lot worse though.

We were told, several times, that the endings would not be a cookie cutter A.B.C choice, and as close to right as they got is that instead of A.B.C it's BLUE.GREEN.RED. It's also just lazy that the cutscene after you make this decision is almost identical regardless of the decision, at least in Mass Effect 1 whether or not you saved the council changed the first half of the cutscene.

Every decision you make throughout the game is entirely discarded, none of it affects the finalmoments outside of the EMS bar. And even that only decides if you get the green decision, and if you get the three second shot of Shepard breathing.

I have even spoken of the plot holes and inconsistencies. All the foreshadowing from Haestrom about Dark Matter is thrown out the window, the entire conversation with Sovereign in ME1 is completely discarded, people TELEPORT back to the Normandy which defies one in a billion odds and crashlands on a random life sustaining planet.

The fact that fans have clung to the Indoctrination theory is a BAD THING, because it shows that we're so desperate to believe things are not how they are at face value that we'll attach ourselves to the greatest longshot hoping it's the truth of the matter. Indoctrination could of been done well, if it was ALREADY INCLUDED IN THE GAME instead of a DLC that we may get MONTHS later.

If I am not mistaken the crucible is a dues ex machina as well

[Wildhide]

saracen16 wrote...

MassFrank wrote...

There is a difference between "like/don't like" and good.

No, there isn't. Saying an ending is "good" is subjective. I didn't like the ending of Star Wars because I thought it was too cliched. Subsequently, I felt that it was a bad ending. Don't try to objectify an opinion.

Interestingly, one of the reasons I don't like the end of ME3 is that it's too cliche (Which can be okay when done well, cliche isn't always bad) and a very poorly presented and developed cliche.  The simple fact they brought in a literal Deus Ex Machina to plot dump you reeks of poory narrative.

Grim, Dark, hopeless, and heavily philosophical endings are not a new trend.  They're very common, but usually they fit the rest of the story they're attached to and are developed much better.

The ME3 ending would be if you watched Star Wars and the last 10 minutes suddenly became 2001: A Space Odyssey.  I like Bioware's writing ability, but they did not do well with this ending.

[Wildhide]

FabricatedWookie wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

In all seriousness, everything after the magic space elevator is terrible. You've probably heard the term Deus Ex Machina thrown around a bit, it's literal translation is God from the Machine and it's a literary term. The entire series is wrapped up by an out-of-nowhere godlike character that very suddenly and jarringly gives you a plot dump and then concludes the story.

That's not even the real problem with the end though. The reaper's motivation makes little to no sense, everything the Starchild tells you about 'Organics and Synthetics cannot coexist' is already disproven by that point, and all the while you can't do anything about it. There is no investigate option, no interrupt, you just blindly do what the Starchild tells you. It gets a lot worse though.

We were told, several times, that the endings would not be a cookie cutter A.B.C choice, and as close to right as they got is that instead of A.B.C it's BLUE.GREEN.RED. It's also just lazy that the cutscene after you make this decision is almost identical regardless of the decision, at least in Mass Effect 1 whether or not you saved the council changed the first half of the cutscene.

Every decision you make throughout the game is entirely discarded, none of it affects the finalmoments outside of the EMS bar. And even that only decides if you get the green decision, and if you get the three second shot of Shepard breathing.

I have even spoken of the plot holes and inconsistencies. All the foreshadowing from Haestrom about Dark Matter is thrown out the window, the entire conversation with Sovereign in ME1 is completely discarded, people TELEPORT back to the Normandy which defies one in a billion odds and crashlands on a random life sustaining planet.

The fact that fans have clung to the Indoctrination theory is a BAD THING, because it shows that we're so desperate to believe things are not how they are at face value that we'll attach ourselves to the greatest longshot hoping it's the truth of the matter. Indoctrination could of been done well, if it was ALREADY INCLUDED IN THE GAME instead of a DLC that we may get MONTHS later.

If I am not mistaken the crucible is a dues ex machina as well

It's technically a macguffin, some object, idea, anything that drives the story forward.  It's a focus for the protagonist (and perhaps the antagonists) to be reaching for.  It does feel a bit forced, but I can accept it mostly.  It would serve it's purpose better if it simply augmented and empowered your forces, or had significant firepower that sets the scale in your favor.  I expected more of a conventional battle against the Reapers.

The super destroy everything weapon isn't nearly as interesting to me, but not story breaking.

[Tedler]

saracen16 wrote...

MassFrank wrote...

There is a difference between "like/don't like" and good.

No, there isn't. Saying an ending is "good" is subjective. I didn't like the ending of Star Wars because I thought it was too cliched. Subsequently, I felt that it was a bad ending. Don't try to objectify an opinion.

Oh, you're a hipster. That makes sense.

[VirtualAlex]

Erriiieeee wrote...

The ending could've worked if Bioware's writers took the time to realize all the plot holes within the ending.
-

PLOT HOLES, I keep hearing about plot holes. There are no plot holes. I specifically made a thread called "What Plot Holes" and I ended up with this: 
http://alexjuice.com...nding-explained 

[GreyhameBioware]

To respond to the OP, I did wrap my head around the endings. I still think that they are crap, and from a completely different narrative style than the rest of the series I was playing. And they didn't provide any real closure. Even other things where the hero makes similar sacrifices, there's usually something to wrap up and provide closure. This ending did none of that.

[Tedler]

VirtualAlex wrote...

Erriiieeee wrote...

The ending could've worked if Bioware's writers took the time to realize all the plot holes within the ending.
-

PLOT HOLES, I keep hearing about plot holes. There are no plot holes. I specifically made a thread called "What Plot Holes" and I ended up with this: 
http://alexjuice.com...nding-explained 

You might want to clean up your spelling and grammar if you're going to exhibit that level of smug condescension.

[VirtualAlex]

Tedler wrote...

You might want to clean up your spelling and grammar if you're going to exhibit that level of smug condescension.

You are 100% right about that. I wrote it in haste because I wanted to make sure it was up. I will be editing it as I go.