265 réponses à ce sujet

[Pottumuusi]

It's not a theory but a hypothesis and it's a pretty plausible one at that.

[Lemonwizard]

byne wrote...


While I agree we should use Occam's Razor in most occasions, any occasion where Occam's Razor leads to a god child using space magic should probably be treated as very suspect at best.

I don't mean using Occam's razor in canon. I mean using it in real life. Bioware's writing has never been this subtle, no matter how rose tinted your glasses are.

[pprrff]

DirectorStormchaser1 wrote...

Young Earth Creationists do not put all the facts out therefore they are Theorists.

Indoctrination Theorists are not Theorists. They are Factualists. They lay out all the facts which is presented as evidence.

Factualists cannot lay down theories which Young Earth Creationists do.

yes they do, the pick and choose 'facts' that fit their theory, and dimiss those that disproves it, which is like what people do here. They ignore the whole ending part the endinng to look for bits and pieces that support their thinking.

this is what i wrote on the other thread which is probably better posted here.

pprrff wrote...

I'm sorry to say this but the only thing
worse than what we have for an ending is that Shepard gets indoctrinated
at the end. Pretend for a moment that's the real ending instead of the
god child, the outrage here on the forum wouldn't be over 3 different
color explosion, it would be like this:

"OMG none of our choices mattered cuz Shep just get indoctrinated, what horrible writing plot hole ....."

"I
have so many different Shep and so many different play through and it's
all for nothing cuz the ending is exactly the same, FU bioware..."

"After
5 years of emotional investment and this is the f***ing ending? I
should have just let Saren shoot me and get the same outcome..."

"Where
is my crew? where is my LI, is bioware saying that they, along with the
whole galaxy are screwed because the hero get mindF*cked at the last
minute. This isn't an ending, this is just a non standard critical
mission failure"

So yea, I don't see why people who are upset over the current ending will put their hopes in a even worse one.

[Eyjh]

Right now, either Bioware is completely incompetent, or there is something that we don't know. Currently the ending contradicts everything that was promised. The question is, could one of the most celebrated game producers in the world suddenly become incompetent? Possible, but...

[Nightshade386]

Lemonwizard wrote...

 You pick a premise and then frantically search for anything that can be interpreted to support it, ignoring the premise's utter lack of expression anywhere else.


Seriously guys, let's get some Occam's Razor in here.  The ending wasn't cryptic and needing analysis, it was actually just poorly done.

Unless we're right, you're wrong, and it's cliffhanger.

Just saying.  All interpretation is open to discussion until  we get something difinitive from Bioware.

[DarkSeraphym]

To be fair, one of the arguments that I have seen "indoctrinators" use in support of the idea is that there are just so many plot holes and inconsistencies floating around in the ending that they can't be mere coincidence. There must have been some kind of intent to all of them, there is no way that the writing could just be poor. Surely there must have been a design in them.

Remove the references to Mass Effect 3 and insert references to a deity. That is the same argument I have seen a lot of theists tossing around in my lifetime.

[MadMatt910]

Young earth theory has as many holes as the current endings.
Both break the lore of the universe

[Ashilana]

Lemonwizard wrote...

 Seriously guys, let's get some Occam's Razor in here.  The ending wasn't cryptic and needing analysis, it was actually just poorly done.

Pretty much...

They could decide to make it "all a dream", but that doesn't make the dream suck any less.

[Tequila Man]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

To be fair, one of the arguments that I have seen "indoctrinators" use in support of the idea is that there are just so many plot holes and inconsistencies floating around in the ending that they can't be mere coincidence. There must have been some kind of intent to all of them, there is no way that the writing could just be poor. Surely there must have been a design in them.

Remove the references to Mass Effect 3 and insert references to a deity. That is the same argument I have seen a lot of theists tossing around in my lifetime.

To be fair, the Greeks saw way too many thing happen to be just coincedence.

Zeus is real.

Indoctrination is right.

/Thread. You win! *strike dramatic Ryu pose*

[jb1983]

Lemonwizard wrote...

 You pick a premise and then frantically search for anything that can be interpreted to support it, ignoring the premise's utter lack of expression anywhere else.




Seriously guys, let's get some Occam's Razor in here.  The ending wasn't cryptic and needing analysis, it was actually just poorly done.

This.

Thank you. 

[Dranume]

Lemonwizard wrote...

 You pick a premise and then frantically search for anything that can be interpreted to support it, ignoring the premise's utter lack of expression anywhere else.




Seriously guys, let's get some Occam's Razor in here.  The ending wasn't cryptic and needing analysis, it was actually just poorly done.

Glad you have your opinion and no we do not hate you for it.   You have yours now let them have theirs.. it is really not that hard.  Thank you anyways for taking the time and posting a thread.

[Lemonwizard]

Nightshade386 wrote...


Unless we're right, you're wrong, and it's cliffhanger.

Just saying.  All interpretation is open to discussion until  we get something difinitive from Bioware.

I don't think you understand what "cliffhanger" means.


Because it doesn't mean "we acted like it was over but there are tiny clues hidden around that imply there could be more stuff if the sequel starts with a big plot twist".

[MPSai]

I maintain the Indoctrination Theory wasn't intentional, but it's plausible and would be a good place to start for an Retcon: The Ending For Real This Time DLC

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Lemonwizard wrote...

PKchu wrote...

Lemonwizard, I've heard you name somewhere before. I remember you being a cool guy.

I love your title and shot at YEC.

https://twitter.com/...967731070799872 is sort of interesting though

I used to make lots of really ridiculous troll topics in the first year or so after ME2 came out. I was fairly well known on BSN at the time. I just stopped posting here once ME3 info started getting released to evade spoilers.

Yeah, I remembered something like that being funny. You should make a blog or something.

I wonder who will be the first to defend YEC, and if so, what version of the ending they believe...

[Baronesa]

byne wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Seriously guys, let's get some Occam's Razor in here.  The ending wasn't cryptic and needing analysis, it was actually just poorly done.

While I agree we should use Occam's Razor in most occasions, any occasion where Occam's Razor leads to a god child using space magic should probably be treated as very suspect at best.

Well... There are FAR more problems and inconsistencies taking the endings as they are, than if you apply the ID  Hypothesis.

Neither is perfect, but the glaring plotholes are way bigger if you take the endings at face value.

[Mysten]

The game basically beats you over the head with the indoctrination. Honestly, it plays out like someone had just recently finished Dead Space and thought, "the way the Marker manipulated Isaac with hallucinations of Nicole was pretty cool right? We should do that, but have Shepard's guilt manifest as a small child - the ultimate form of innocence" but then someone said, "hey, do you think we need someone like Kendra Daniels? To explain it to the audience, just in case they don't get it?" "No," said the first designer, "they're smart enough to get this on their own."

Oh wait.

[Taleroth]

Thank you, OP. The indoctrination theory posts make me want to flee this "fix the ending" discussions just to save my sanity.

Baronesa wrote...

Well... There are FAR more problems and inconsistencies taking the endings as they are, than if you apply the ID  Hypothesis.

Neither is perfect, but the glaring plotholes are way bigger if you take the endings at face value.

  Occam's Razor should be applied to our world. It should not be applied to the fictional one.

It is far easier to believe that Bioware rushed an ending than anything else. Plot holes are not hard.

Modifié par Taleroth, 14 mars 2012 - 05:10 .

[DarkSeraphym]

MPSai wrote...

I maintain the Indoctrination Theory wasn't intentional, but it's plausible and would be a good place to start for an Retcon: The Ending For Real This Time DLC

If it wasn't intentional, they wouldn't be able to use it even if they did think it was a good idea. This is why writers won't accept recommendations or ideas that relate to storyline. There are certain legal complications that could arise if the people who originally wrote them suddenly decided they wanted compensation for their idea.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 14 mars 2012 - 05:10 .

[jb1983]

Lemonwizard wrote...

byne wrote...


While I agree we should use Occam's Razor in most occasions, any occasion where Occam's Razor leads to a god child using space magic should probably be treated as very suspect at best.

I don't mean using Occam's razor in canon. I mean using it in real life. Bioware's writing has never been this subtle, no matter how rose tinted your glasses are.

Actually, my first play-through was green. So they're more green-tinted glasses.

[Taleroth]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

If it wasn't intentional, they wouldn't be able to use it even if they did think it was a good idea.

Historical precedent disagrees.
http://tvtropes.org/...Main.SureWhyNot 

[DarkSeraphym]

Eyjh wrote...

Right now, either Bioware is completely incompetent, or there is something that we don't know. Currently the ending contradicts everything that was promised. The question is, could one of the most celebrated game producers in the world suddenly become incompetent? Possible, but...

I think Dragon Age 2 would like a word with you.

[RowanCF]

Lemonwizard wrote...

 You pick a premise and then frantically search for anything that can be interpreted to support it, ignoring the premise's utter lack of expression anywhere else.




Seriously guys, let's get some Occam's Razor in here.  The ending wasn't cryptic and needing analysis, it was actually just poorly done.

How do you explain the breath scene when you pick destroy then? The indoctrination theory pretty much fits it all perfectly and you offer nothing of substance in your post to indicate otherwise.

[Lemonwizard]

PKchu wrote...

Yeah, I remembered something like that being funny. You should make a blog or something.

I wonder who will be the first to defend YEC, and if so, what version of the ending they believe...

Most people who try to defend young earth creationism don't realize that "young earth creationism" and "creationism" do not mean the same thing, and quickly stop defending it once the difference is explained.

[zarnk567]

DON'T TAKE AWAY MY HOPE.

[savionen]

Lemonwizard wrote...

 You pick a premise and then frantically search for anything that can be interpreted to support it, ignoring the premise's utter lack of expression anywhere else.




Seriously guys, let's get some Occam's Razor in here.  The ending wasn't cryptic and needing analysis, it was actually just poorly done.

If the rest of ME3 was terrible, and Bioware were a terrible company I'd agree, but neither of the previous statements are true.