265 réponses à ce sujet

[Taleroth]

Liquoid wrote...

If you think the endings were real then you have been indoctrinated.

I think the endings were badly written fiction. But I think they were overt badly written fiction.

[Tequila Man]

Taleroth wrote...

Liquoid wrote...

If you think the endings were real then you have been indoctrinated.

I think the endings were badly written fiction. But I think they were overt badly written fiction.

But, see, NOT fanfiction. Devfiction. Or, as I like to call it, canon.

[Smiley556]

Tequila Man wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

So is explaining the indoctrination theory. It explaines the scenes we see in the canon ending as we percieve them. Both are interpretation of the canon story.

Absolutely. It is a really awesome interpretation. Made by a fan. If I said it was all faninterpretation rather than fanfiction, would you feel better?

Some players interpret the ending as indoctrination, some interpret it as space magic. Call it whatever you like. But by your logic, if you call indoctrination theory faninterpretation, then space magic theory is also faninterpretation.

[Tequila Man]

Smiley556 wrote...

Tequila Man wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

So is explaining the indoctrination theory. It explaines the scenes we see in the canon ending as we percieve them. Both are interpretation of the canon story.

Absolutely. It is a really awesome interpretation. Made by a fan. If I said it was all faninterpretation rather than fanfiction, would you feel better?

Some players interpret the ending as indoctrination, some interpret it as space magic. Call it whatever you like. But by your logic, if you call indoctrination theory faninterpretation, then space magic theory is also faninterpretation.

Except, you know, that happened. In the game. Right in front of me. There were colors. A kid. Oh my lord, the OP is right.

[Lemonwizard]

Smiley556 wrote...

Some players interpret the ending as indoctrination, some interpret it as space magic. Call it whatever you like. But by your logic, if you call indoctrination theory faninterpretation, then space magic theory is also faninterpretation.

Space magic isn't subtext that's alluded to throughout the game. It's text that is explicitly stated.


Direct narrative statements always trump potential implications when determining something's canonicity.

[Rockpopple]

pprrff wrote...

rockpopple. indoc ending is just as bad of an ending as the current one, everything from no closure to no choices is just as true for indoctrination. at least with what we have the reaper problem is gone, one way or the other.

Don't get me wrong. Go ahead and look at my past posts. I never said Indoc. ending was GOOD. I said it was brilliant. But at best, it leaves the final battle between the Galaxy and the Reapers as something the player never has input in, or never finds out what happens. That's... not good. And if that's how BioWare decides to leave it, as a giant cliffhanger, then so be it. If you want to be angry about that, that would be the right thing to be angry about.

But if Indoc. Ending is true, then it's a brilliant, genius move by the writers, to involve the players themselves into the ME universe by introducing the PLAYER into the insideous attack that is Indoctrination. It'd mean the writers knew exactly what they were doing, and that there were no plot holes. You'd have to give them massive kudos for that.

Again, keep in mind that Indoc. Theory introduces NO NEW FACTS to the series, or the ending. None whatsoever. It's an answer to a question, and the questions are what you, the player, are meant to ask during the endings, because NOTHING MAKES SENSE. 

And don't compare that to the Dragon Age 2 endings. They made perfect sense, they just sucked. Loved DA2, but the 3rd act was a mess. But these endings in ME3 are an illogical mess. How can Shepard "Breathe" after being blown up on the Citadel? How would she survive the re-entry into Earth's orbit? How would he survive the Citadel explosion alone? Why is he covered in stone and mortor that looks suspiciously like the same material London's buildings are made of, instead of Citadel material? These are questions we have to ask, not just accept at face value.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 14 mars 2012 - 05:50 .

[DarkSeraphym]

Tequila Man wrote...

Except, you know, that happened. In the game. Right in front of me. There were colors. A kid. Oh my lord, the OP is right.

Don't forget the little message at the end that makes sure to remind you that Shepard just dealt with the Reaper threat, regardless of your ending.

[Verit]

Lemonwizard wrote...
Seriously guys, let's get some Occam's Razor in here.  The ending wasn't cryptic and needing analysis, it was actually just poorly done.

I totally agree, and I hope the community ends up realizing that sooner rather than later. It's kind of despressing seeing how more and more people are trying to rationalize the ending by saying it all never happened. If that doesn't speak volumes about how bad the endings are, I don't know what does.

Modifié par -Draikin-, 14 mars 2012 - 05:48 .

[Tequila Man]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

Tequila Man wrote...

Except, you know, that happened. In the game. Right in front of me. There were colors. A kid. Oh my lord, the OP is right.

Don't forget the little message at the end that makes sure to remind you that Shepard just dealt with the Reaper threat, regardless of your ending.

Bolded for thread win.

[hismastersvoice]

Uh, some people really should look up the definition of Occam's Razor before they tell other people to apply it to anything...

[Rawgrim]

Why would Shepard be exposed to every single weapon the Reapers could possibly use, except for indoctrination?

[Makatak]

Mcfly616 wrote...

You sir, are gullible....if you have played the first 2 games in the series, and you actually think its over....you are gullible. If you have any sense of logic you would know its not over, its totally illogical of Bioware to leave it like that....going to be funny when everybody that thinks the current ending is the final word on the series....

What I think about EA/Bioware's intentions past the given ending is irrelevant. If Stephanie Meyer released another book in the Twilight series where it was retconned into the lore to say, "No, really, vampires die by sunlight, stakes through the heart, and removal of the head, and Edward Cullen was just an emo creep in body glitter," would I suddenly pick up and read the entire Twilight series?

Hell no.

[Tequila Man]

Rawgrim wrote...

Why would Shepard be exposed to every single weapon the Reapers could possibly use, except for indoctrination?

Got exposed to it near the end of ME3. Beat it. 

Not beating it = TIM shooting you in the head.

[xeNNN]

i dislike the creationist theory (mainly the adam and eve idea) mainly because if thats true then we are all inbreds and we really are all brothers and sisters and so forth and so forth lol

id rather believe the indoctrination theory to be honest

[Priviums]

even from the beginning of mass effect 2 harbinger wanted to indoctrinate shepard, the whole storyline in me3 gave hints about indoctrination, reapers most lethal weapon is indoctrination, i dont think were trying to make excuses, this theory is infact the only that makes sense.

[Smiley556]

Tequila Man wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

Tequila Man wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

So is explaining the indoctrination theory. It explaines the scenes we see in the canon ending as we percieve them. Both are interpretation of the canon story.

Absolutely. It is a really awesome interpretation. Made by a fan. If I said it was all faninterpretation rather than fanfiction, would you feel better?

Some players interpret the ending as indoctrination, some interpret it as space magic. Call it whatever you like. But by your logic, if you call indoctrination theory faninterpretation, then space magic theory is also faninterpretation.

Except, you know, that happened. In the game. Right in front of me. There were colors. A kid. Oh my lord, the OP is right.

Interesting, cos when I played the game, Indoctrination happend. In the game. Right in front of me.

[Rockpopple]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

Tequila Man wrote...

Except, you know, that happened. In the game. Right in front of me. There were colors. A kid. Oh my lord, the OP is right.

Don't forget the little message at the end that makes sure to remind you that Shepard just dealt with the Reaper threat, regardless of your ending.

No offense, but Commander Shepard was the driving force behind everything that could have made a dent against the Reapers, including the Crucible, including the Galactic Allied Forces that fought the Reapers. Whether or not Indoc. Theory is true, if the Reapers were dealt with, Commander Shepard would have been the one with the credit.

[Tequila Man]

Priviums wrote...

even from the beginning of mass effect 2 harbinger wanted to indoctrinate shepard, the whole storyline in me3 gave hints about indoctrination, reapers most lethal weapon is indoctrination, i dont think were trying to make excuses, this theory is infact the only that makes sense.

They did try to control and indoctrinate us.

We shot the guy in the stomach (his weakest point! "ARRRRGH! WHY'D I PUT MY HEART IN MY SPLEEN?!"

[Tequila Man]

Smiley556 wrote...

Interesting, cos when I played the game, Indoctrination happend. In the game. Right in front of me.

Absolutely. Then, we shot him in the stomach. He fell down. Indoctrination failure.

[Verit]

hismastersvoice wrote...

Uh, some people really should look up the definition of Occam's Razor before they tell other people to apply it to anything...

Please explain. I hope you're not suggesting that the huge wall of text that is the indoctrination theory is actually the ending theory that makes the fewest assumptions.

[Zyrious]

Psychiatrists say that many 9/11 conspiracy theories are a result of people wanting to believe the government is all powerful as opposed to the idea that we are so vulnerable a rag-tag group of middle-eastern men could walk into our country and kill thousands with little effort.

In this situation, people are so desperate to believe that bioware didnt just plain screw up the ending, either due to lack of time or just thinking the shock value of it would be seen in a good light (which it wasnt).

There would be more foreshadowing and obvious clues that don't require mass nitpicking of the entire forum community. Most of the players dont come here, they would not leave a supposed "dream" sequence not reveal itself as a dream sequence by the end of the game, and they certainly wouldn't have made the Stargazer sequence. It's reaching, it's desperation.

[Rockpopple]

Tequila Man wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Why would Shepard be exposed to every single weapon the Reapers could possibly use, except for indoctrination?

Got exposed to it near the end of ME3. Beat it. 

Not beating it = TIM shooting you in the head.

Tequila Man, you can't compare TIM's poor-ass version of Indoctrination to the real thing. Shepard was never, throughout the entire series, victim or nearly victim of the Reaper's most feared and insideous weapon. That alone begs the question: why in the 3rd act of this amazing trilogy did Shep never have to deal with Reaper Indoctrination?

[KorPhaeron]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

Tequila Man wrote...

Except, you know, that happened. In the game. Right in front of me. There were colors. A kid. Oh my lord, the OP is right.

Don't forget the little message at the end that makes sure to remind you that Shepard just dealt with the Reaper threat, regardless of your ending.

Well in my ending Liara and my Shep are sitting on a beach talking about how live is good, Garrius is in the background flirting with Tali and Grunt is trying to swim.

Can that indoctrination people disprove my ending

[DarkSeraphym]

Rockpopple wrote...

No offense, but Commander Shepard was the driving force behind everything that could have made a dent against the Reapers, including the Crucible, including the Galactic Allied Forces that fought the Reapers. Whether or not Indoc. Theory is true, if the Reapers were dealt with, Commander Shepard would have been the one with the credit.

To be honest, I think that is a fair assessment. However, I don't think conventional means would have been enough to defeat the Reapers on its own. The Crucible was necessary and getting the Crucible attached to the Citadel would have required someone to go through the beam. Assuming anything beyond Harbinger's attack was a hallucination, who did it in order to stop that threat without Shepard?

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 14 mars 2012 - 05:56 .

[Talogrungi]

Tequila Man wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

Interesting, cos when I played the game, Indoctrination happend. In the game. Right in front of me.

Absolutely. Then, we shot him in the stomach. He fell down. Indoctrination failure.

Did you not get the ending where Shep is seen waking up in the rubble amidst the sound of reapers?

Like .. after being clipped by Harbinger's beam just before the nonsensical, dreamlike sequence .. ?

That's how I interpreted the ending I saw. Injured by Harbinger, Hallucinated, Woke Up.