Modifié par GTANJ, 14 mars 2012 - 06:11 .
Why it WASN'T Indoctrination
Débuté par
GTANJ
, mars 14 2012 06:10
#1
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:10
GTANJ
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This theory of indoctrination being the ending of ME3 is based on the belief that Shepard has been systematically indoctrinated through the three games. However, there is one important part of ME3 that proves Shepard was not in any shape or form, indoctrinated. If he was, the Prothean VI on Thessia would have sensed that Shepard was indoctrinated to some level and would have said "Sensing Indoctrinated Lifeform" or something of that nature. Remember when the VI did that when Kai Leng showed up? Shepard wasn't indoctrinated at all. The theory is debunk. Sorry fans, it was just a bad ending.
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#2
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:11
Meltemph
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Doesn't change the fact that the reapers could have been trying to mess with his mind, they obviously have the ability to do so.
#3
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:12
SyxxByNyne
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This is discussed in great detail in the hallucination/indoctrination thread. There are several theories to explain this, including the idea that the Protheans didn't know enough about indoctrination to detect subtle yet incomplete indoctrination. If you want more, just search that thread for it.
#4
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:13
RyMann88
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It's possible he was indoctrinated AFTER he spoke with the VI. After the blast knocked Shepard out, it's entirely possible that his mind and body was in a weakened state, allowing for indoctrination. Simple counter to your theory.
#5
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:13
GTANJ
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Meltemph wrote...
Doesn't change the fact that the reapers could have been trying to mess with his mind, they obviously have the ability to do so.
If Shepard wasn't indoctrinated at Thessia, no event after that would have caused him to be all of a sudden controlled by the Reapers. It doesn't make any sense for the Reapers to have indoctrination over him when they didn't only a few missions before the finale.
#6
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:13
Talogrungi
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Can't also dismiss the hallucination theory; Shepard's been through some crazy stuff and we get plenty of hints about his mental state deteriorating throughout the course of ME3. Indoctrination or just combat fatigue are both entirely plausible.
#7
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Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:13
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Through-out the three games? GTANJ Shepard has been resisting through-out the three games, only until then does Harbinger win. When the Prothean VI met with Shepard he was not fully indocdrinated. Remember, Shepard's mind is very resiliant, but only to that point does he finally collapse under all the pressure. Seeing Thessia fall screwed his confidence big time.
#8
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:13
Meltemph
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also does not change that fact that the Star Child lied about destroying the crucibel destroys ALL synthetics, casue that would mean shep would be nothing but morgue worthy considering he had major organs replaced with synthetics.
Modifié par Meltemph, 14 mars 2012 - 06:17 .
#9
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:14
Leafs43
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Prothean VI idea has already been ruled out.
Prothean VI detects organics indoctrinated
Sheperd is never indoctrinated until the very end when you choose to be indoctrinated by choosing the control or synthesis options.
Prothean VI detects organics indoctrinated
Sheperd is never indoctrinated until the very end when you choose to be indoctrinated by choosing the control or synthesis options.
#10
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:14
Barhador
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Also possible that its a plot hole. It's not like ME doesn't have those.
#11
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:14
Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd
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I'm more for the fact that this was Harbingers last ditch effort and he expended alot of energy in trying to do this to Shepherd.
#12
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:14
GTANJ
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RyMann88 wrote...
It's possible he was indoctrinated AFTER he spoke with the VI. After the blast knocked Shepard out, it's entirely possible that his mind and body was in a weakened state, allowing for indoctrination. Simple counter to your theory.
So Shepard is out cold. Harbinger can blast him to pieces with his beam. But they decide to indoctrinate him instead? I find that hard to believe.
#13
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:15
Meltemph
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If Shepard wasn't indoctrinated at Thessia, no event after that would have caused him to be all of a sudden controlled by the Reapers. It doesn't make any sense for the Reapers to have indoctrination over him when they didn't only a few missions before the finale.
You are stuck on the word indoctrination... Replace it wither whatever you want, the premise is, what happened wasnt real or at least completely reality.
#14
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:15
GTANJ
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Talogrungi wrote...
Can't also dismiss the hallucination theory; Shepard's been through some crazy stuff and we get plenty of hints about his mental state deteriorating throughout the course of ME3. Indoctrination or just combat fatigue are both entirely plausible.
I don't dismiss the hallucination theory. I still think that would be a bad ending.
#15
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:16
Meltemph
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GTANJ wrote...
Talogrungi wrote...
Can't also dismiss the hallucination theory; Shepard's been through some crazy stuff and we get plenty of hints about his mental state deteriorating throughout the course of ME3. Indoctrination or just combat fatigue are both entirely plausible.
I don't dismiss the hallucination theory. I still think that would be a bad ending.
Why, cause it ends it on a cliffhanger and throws a lot of people off? Lot of books and movies do that and get praised.
Modifié par Meltemph, 14 mars 2012 - 06:16 .
#16
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:16
hex23
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GTANJ wrote...
If Shepard wasn't indoctrinated at Thessia, no event after that would have caused him to be all of a sudden controlled by the Reapers. It doesn't make any sense for the Reapers to have indoctrination over him when they didn't only a few missions before the finale.
Uh....no one is saying he was controlled by the Reapers, or even indoctrinated. The whole conversation with the kid was a battle of wills, Control/Synthesis being unite with the Reapers, Destroy is telling them to go to hell.
If you pick Control/Synthesis you become a Reaper pawn. If you choose Destroy, you wake up on Earth. Which explains the final cut scene with Shep alive.
So the VI would have no reason to detect it because it hadn't happened yet.
#17
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:16
VerdantSF
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The Cerberus labs on Sanctuary stated very clearly that adrenaline was the best way to enhance and speed-up the indoctrination process. The rush to the Citadel beam was as adrenaline packed as you could get AND it put you within close physical proximity to Harbinger.
#18
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:16
MPSai
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GTANJ wrote...
I don't dismiss the hallucination theory. I still think that would be a bad ending.
It most certainly would be, but it's an easy out to expand on the ending and create a proper one.
#19
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:17
Negix
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Actually, in ME1 Vigil states that the Protheans underestimated indoctrination, meaning that the VI isnt necessarily capable of mentioning it 100%. Indoctrination isnt really on an on/off switch, its more of a slow process.
Im not saying that the indoc theory is true, imo its just too good to be. However, its not exactly ilogical.
Im not saying that the indoc theory is true, imo its just too good to be. However, its not exactly ilogical.
Modifié par Negix, 14 mars 2012 - 06:17 .
#20
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:18
Sarevok Synder
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Guys let it go; it was just a badly written ending.
#21
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:18
GTANJ
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hex23 wrote...
GTANJ wrote...
If Shepard wasn't indoctrinated at Thessia, no event after that would have caused him to be all of a sudden controlled by the Reapers. It doesn't make any sense for the Reapers to have indoctrination over him when they didn't only a few missions before the finale.
Uh....no one is saying he was controlled by the Reapers, or even indoctrinated. The whole conversation with the kid was a battle of wills, Control/Synthesis being unite with the Reapers, Destroy is telling them to go to hell.
If you pick Control/Synthesis you become a Reaper pawn. If you choose Destroy, you wake up on Earth. Which explains the final cut scene with Shep alive.
So the VI would have no reason to detect it because it hadn't happened yet.
I just can't believe that Shepard could be indoctrinated in such a short amount of time. If the VI on Thessia didn't detect Shepard to being affected by the Reapers, I don't think he was indoctrinated.
#22
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:18
Stalker
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Already recognized.
I don't know about the general theory, but I don't think he has been in process of indoctrination throughout all the games.
It has started on earth in ME3, with the vision of the dying kid that never existed.
He was not indoctrinated when talking to the Prothean VI, because being indoctrinated would mean being in control over the victim. To this point, Harbinger just had started indoctrination with his dreams. Shepard was completely aware of his actions on Thessia.
After being hit by Harbinger on earth, happens the last attempt to indoctrinate Shepard.
I don't know about the general theory, but I don't think he has been in process of indoctrination throughout all the games.
It has started on earth in ME3, with the vision of the dying kid that never existed.
He was not indoctrinated when talking to the Prothean VI, because being indoctrinated would mean being in control over the victim. To this point, Harbinger just had started indoctrination with his dreams. Shepard was completely aware of his actions on Thessia.
After being hit by Harbinger on earth, happens the last attempt to indoctrinate Shepard.
#23
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:18
Rawgrim
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Hex23 and VerdantSF hit the nail on the head.
#24
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:19
77boy84
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It's possible that the VI detected Kai Leng's reaper enhancements, and that's what set it off.
Or, maybe the VI just couldn't detect people that were subtly being indoctrinated, or not completely under?
I'm not sure if we can really go on the accuracy of the VI, though. If they COULD detect indoctrination with perfect accuracy, they would have never been torn apart by the splinter group.
Or, maybe the VI just couldn't detect people that were subtly being indoctrinated, or not completely under?
I'm not sure if we can really go on the accuracy of the VI, though. If they COULD detect indoctrination with perfect accuracy, they would have never been torn apart by the splinter group.
#25
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 06:19
Ultra Prism
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Exposure to Indoctrination can vary, since Shepard is strong-willed, Reapers needed Shepard to be at his/her weakest(after the blast) in order to overwhelm the mind. This explains that Shepard was barely hold out after blast before hitting teleport platform in the end to go up to Citadel. At this point, Shepard is weakened physically and mentally...thus allowing Reapers to get inside of his head
