249 réponses à ce sujet

[Arokel]

GrumpyM00SE wrote...

Arokel wrote...

Idk if the theory is true or not. Its nice to have some hope though.

As far as I can tell the only solid evidence against indoctrination is the Prothean VI on Thessia not registering Shep as indoctrinated.

This is the only thing that prevents me from fully accepting the theory. I'll play devil's (for lack of a better term) advocate and argue that the VI was unable to detect Shep's indoctrination because unlike Cerberus he was not under their control yet. They had their claws in him but couldn't control him yet.

The theory is that shepard is not fully indoctrinated until the end of the game. The Prothean VI on Thessia says that Kei Leng is fully indoctrinated.

You basically just showed that I wasted about 10 lines lol.

[Nefelius]

bytemarks wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

bytemarks wrote...

Evidence? The indoctrination didn't consume Shepard until the end when was vulnerable and running off pure adrenaline. Evidence to support indoctrination can be found throughout the whole campaign, not to mention the description given in the codex.

This is only your assumptions not evidence.  " The indoctrination didn't consume Shepard until the end when was vulnerable and running off pure adrenaline." is u are being guessing and speculating.

The only real evidence is the Prothean VI's statement. 

Ok, let me rephrase that. Evidence to support the theory can be found throughout the campaign. Also, when the Prothean VI detects indoctrination, how do you know he's not talking about Shepard? (forgive me if he makes it more clear in the game, this just came to me but it makes sense)

"Signs of indoctrination are not present." when he turns on. "Indoctrination etected" When he shuts down when Leng arrives.

Later on Cerberus base

"Signs of indoctrination are not present".

[Astarmos]

As I recall, Vigil was able to find even the smallest taint of indoctrination and reaper influence.

[Rockpopple]

To be clear: Indoc. Theory in it's purest form doesn't hold any significance to "Vent boy". Indoc. Theory assumes that the boy is a real boy, he died during the Reaper attack, Shepard saw it, and it haunted him ever since.

Indoc. Theory doesn't hold that the boy was really an hallucination, or Harbinger, or Starchild, or anything. Those are OTHER theories. Indoc. Theory holds no signficance to Vent Boy. Indoc. Theory takes all it's evidence from only what is seen and experienced during the endings, and what is said, done, experienced explicitly in the games. Nothing more.

[bytemarks]

GrumpyM00SE wrote...

Arokel wrote...

Idk if the theory is true or not. Its nice to have some hope though.

As far as I can tell the only solid evidence against indoctrination is the Prothean VI on Thessia not registering Shep as indoctrinated.

This is the only thing that prevents me from fully accepting the theory. I'll play devil's (for lack of a better term) advocate and argue that the VI was unable to detect Shep's indoctrination because unlike Cerberus he was not under their control yet. They had their claws in him but couldn't control him yet.

The theory is that shepard is not fully indoctrinated until the end of the game. The Prothean VI on Thessia says that Kei Leng is fully indoctrinated.

Does it actually say Kei Leng? It just says indoctrinated life form detected, as far as I remember. He could have been referring to Shepard. Kei Ling happened to be at the right place at the right time.

[Nefelius]

Llames wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

bytemarks wrote...

Plenty of evidence to suggest indoctrination, none that would suggest he's a unicorn. Stop trying to prove people's opinions wrong because you can't.

You see there's a diference between Evidence and Assumptions.

Evidence is when - Prothean VI states he's not indoctrinated.
Assumption is when - you say Habinja indoctrinates Shepard after he hits him with his main gun laser.

I didn't know you could actually talk to the Prothean VI AFTER you get hit by the laser? So you woke up wounded, went ahead and talking to the to VI one more time before heading into the crucible? Nice, you played a differen't game than me

Because otherwise how would he know if he was indoctrinated on earth? .. Yeah you don't get indoctrinated right away (Maybe you could actually, as ADRENALINE speeds up the process A LOT if you listened to experiements Cerberus made, and he was greatly wounded and had lost tons of will power after losing to KAI, seeing Thessia burn, and founding out about the citadel-crucible too late, aka they moved it to earth).

i dont see a point here. All you say is your interpretation  and assumptions based on your imagination. That's not even near the term evidence.

Again i'm not telling wheter true or not. All the evidence we have is Prothean VI stating upon turning on "Indoctrination not deteced" and "Indoctrination detected, shutting down" When Leng arrives.

Same occurs on Cerberus base.

 And the most probable point that you can't dissaprove: How much indoctration is needed before the Prothean VI can read it? Maybe he just wasn't indoctrinated enough for the VI to see the influence of the reapers? Shepard never loses control before that point in the theory, as he ALWAYS resists/snaps out of it, and only succumbs in the end(And even resists that in the end if he destroys).

 

Again. These are assumptions based on your imagination.

A theory is something based on undeniable facts, not imagination.

Modifié par Nefelius, 14 mars 2012 - 07:04 .

[Astarmos]

bytemarks wrote...

Does it actually say Kei Leng? It just says indoctrinated life form detected, as far as I remember. He could have been referring to Shepard. Kei Ling happened to be at the right place at the right time.

Prothean VI wouldn't even start conversation if Shepard had even smallest taint of indoctrination.

[bytemarks]

Rockpopple wrote...

To be clear: Indoc. Theory in it's purest form doesn't hold any significance to "Vent boy". Indoc. Theory assumes that the boy is a real boy, he died during the Reaper attack, Shepard saw it, and it haunted him ever since.

Indoc. Theory doesn't hold that the boy was really an hallucination, or Harbinger, or Starchild, or anything. Those are OTHER theories. Indoc. Theory holds no signficance to Vent Boy. Indoc. Theory takes all it's evidence from only what is seen and experienced during the endings, and what is said, done, experienced explicitly in the games. Nothing more.

Which indoc theory? The one documented on the site? I formed my own indoc theory during the ending sequece. I assumed the boy was an hallucination. I assumed this because after returning to the game and readin the codex regarding indoctrination, it makes complete sense. 

[Lambchopz]

I will say it one more time: this argument is pointless.

It doesn't matter what you think of the theory.

Both groups of people clearly dislike the current ending. Stick with that.

[bytemarks]

Astarmos wrote...

bytemarks wrote...

Does it actually say Kei Leng? It just says indoctrinated life form detected, as far as I remember. He could have been referring to Shepard. Kei Ling happened to be at the right place at the right time.

Prothean VI wouldn't even start conversation if Shepard had even smallest taint of indoctrination.

How do you know this?

[v0rt3x22]

Lambchopz wrote...

I will say it one more time: this argument is pointless.

It doesn't matter what you think of the theory.

Both groups of people clearly dislike the current ending. Stick with that.

Speak for yourself. I loved the ending and support the indoctrination theory.

[Rocktel]

Nowhere in the codex does it say that indoctrination works via hallucinations.

[Nefelius]

bytemarks wrote...

Astarmos wrote...

bytemarks wrote...

Does it actually say Kei Leng? It just says indoctrinated life form detected, as far as I remember. He could have been referring to Shepard. Kei Ling happened to be at the right place at the right time.

Prothean VI wouldn't even start conversation if Shepard had even smallest taint of indoctrination.

How do you know this?

Did u visit Thessia?

"Indoctrination not detected" When VI is turned on.
"Indoctrination detected, shutting down" When Leng arrives.

"indoctrinated ones are gone" When turned on in the Cerberus base.

[Astarmos]

bytemarks wrote...

Astarmos wrote...

bytemarks wrote...

Does it actually say Kei Leng? It just says indoctrinated life form detected, as far as I remember. He could have been referring to Shepard. Kei Ling happened to be at the right place at the right time.

Prothean VI wouldn't even start conversation if Shepard had even smallest taint of indoctrination.

How do you know this?

Oh yes, VI was just messing around with Shepard like a bro.

[bytemarks]

Nefelius wrote...

bytemarks wrote...

Astarmos wrote...

bytemarks wrote...

Does it actually say Kei Leng? It just says indoctrinated life form detected, as far as I remember. He could have been referring to Shepard. Kei Ling happened to be at the right place at the right time.

Prothean VI wouldn't even start conversation if Shepard had even smallest taint of indoctrination.

How do you know this?

Did u visit Thessia?

"Indoctrination not detected" When VI is turned on.
"Indoctrination detected, shutting down" When Leng arrives.

"indoctrinated ones are gone" When turned on in the Cerberus base.

It had been tampered with in the ceberus base though.

[PX6DEVASTATER]

While I don't have an opinion regarding the whole indoctrination theory, the initial post is idiotic. There is a significant difference between saying "Shepard is indoctrinated, prove me wrong" and saying "Shepard is indoctrinated because of the following points" regardless of whether or not the points have flaws.

[Nefelius]

bytemarks wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

bytemarks wrote...

Astarmos wrote...

bytemarks wrote...

Does it actually say Kei Leng? It just says indoctrinated life form detected, as far as I remember. He could have been referring to Shepard. Kei Ling happened to be at the right place at the right time.

Prothean VI wouldn't even start conversation if Shepard had even smallest taint of indoctrination.

How do you know this?

Did u visit Thessia?

"Indoctrination not detected" When VI is turned on.
"Indoctrination detected, shutting down" When Leng arrives.

"indoctrinated ones are gone" When turned on in the Cerberus base.

It had been tampered with in the ceberus base though.

But he still refers to the indoctrinated ones  as "Indoctrinated ones" right? So he can still  aknowledge it, right?

...

[Rocktel]

bytemarks wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

bytemarks wrote...

Astarmos wrote...

bytemarks wrote...

Does it actually say Kei Leng? It just says indoctrinated life form detected, as far as I remember. He could have been referring to Shepard. Kei Ling happened to be at the right place at the right time.

Prothean VI wouldn't even start conversation if Shepard had even smallest taint of indoctrination.

How do you know this?

Did u visit Thessia?

"Indoctrination not detected" When VI is turned on.
"Indoctrination detected, shutting down" When Leng arrives.

"indoctrinated ones are gone" When turned on in the Cerberus base.

It had been tampered with in the ceberus base though.

Thessia was before the Cerberus base.

All these claims that the kid was always a hallucination are proven wrong right there.

[MatronAdena]

I always figured that shep's NOT indoctrinated, been attempts to but they all failed.... yet when s/he gets knocked out from the blast that is when Shep's guard is down THAT is when they attempt it, the end point is not to so much " break free" of it... it's to flat out battle for control.

I tend to notice when it comes to these things people think it has to be all in one or the other, I've yet to see many even suggest the possibility of it being an attempt to indoctrinate at the very end, they always seem to want to move it to a point in the time frame, like with the AI visits to dismiss the whole thing, or the dreams to account for it...

it's a big reason I think there is a good deal to support the idea, so much hints at it yes....but I don't think it's actually till the end that the Reapers can even gain a foothold, any attempt beforehand is " failing at the gate"

thats my take at least.

[MustacheManatee]

There is SO much evidence to support the indoctrination theory. Until proven, that's all it is. A theory. But evidence goes all the way back to the first game. If you want MORE evidence. Not assumptions, actual evidence, go to my thread entitled, "Why Mass Effect 3 isn't over yet"
I went over the ending scene by scene, and compiled some enticing information.
Of course it could just be a poorly written ending. I fully accept this possibility. It just seems like there is a lot of tangible evidence to the contrary. Either way, all this debate and media attention is giving EA exactly what they want. Controversy, and debate.

[laststarfighter]

The Prothean VI would have known if Shepard was indoctrinated. Or even Javik when he read Shepard mind.

[Transgirlgamer]

Rocktel wrote...

Nowhere in the codex does it say that indoctrination works via hallucinations.

In ME2 on the 'dead' reaper getting the IFF, the logs say that the crewmwmbers had many symptoms as they were being indoctrinated, including hallucinations.

[Transgirlgamer]

And to answer most of the rest of the arguments I've read in this post. The indoctrination theory holds that Shepard was being fast indoctrinated right near the end.

[Astarmos]

If indoctrination was so easily detected and defeated than Saren wouldn't be indoctrinated along with Benezia. Benezia never wanted to be a servant of a reaper. If she detected the attempt, then she would run or whatever. You don't believe that she just stood and waited "perhaps it is a headache, perfectly normal, i will go away".

[Astarmos]

If indoctrination was so easily detected and defeated than Saren wouldn't be indoctrinated along with Benezia. Benezia never wanted to be a servant of a reaper. If she detected the attempt, then she would run or whatever. You don't believe that she just stood and waited "perhaps it is a headache, perfectly normal, it will go away".


Sorry about double post, clicked quote not edit

Modifié par Astarmos, 14 mars 2012 - 07:22 .