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AI Shortcomings

Débuté par Guest_krullstar_* , nov. 28 2009 11:05

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5 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Guest_krullstar_*
Posté 28 novembre 2009 - 11:05

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  • Characters getting stuck and ultimately picked off by enemies (you would think a game with 'tunneled' paths to have no issues with pathfinding)
  • NPCs lined up side by side, shoot arrow at one, he comes forward but the ones besides him just stand there like nothing happened.  There should be a mass reaction if that one is clustered with others every single time otherwise it just kills the mood of the game.
  • No Patrols?  It seems most NPCs just stand there waiting for your to arrive.  Personally, this totally kills the mood for me.  I mean, its better to have fewer NPCs but make them more dynamic, enable them to patrol, call for help etc than place a bunch of dumb NPCs waiting around doing nothing.
  • The one moment that really made me aware of the lacking AI was when I was chased by NPCs right into a village and nobody did anything to help or even run away.  Not the villagers, not the Templars, nobody.... they all just stood there completely oblivious to was taking place right before them.  
Personally, I think much of this can be solved with the following:
  • Proximity induced reaction - if you are within their (NPC) visual range/line of sight or hearing range then they react
  • Mass reaction - you hit an NPC and the one besides them that are within visual/hearing range of the target react by starting to do a quick patrol etc.  This should also apply to villagers who are near a fight etc, there should be a reaction instead of them just standing there.
  • Don't limit range of NPC or characters for that matter by 'locking' down certain areas during battles.  Running away is an excellent tactic at times, but the game currently 'tunnels' players movements so you are limited where you can go and when combined with the fact you cannot leave a certain area when in battle - you in essence take away a huge strategic element from the gameplay.  Trying to escape in my view greatly heightens the experience, excitement etc.  Suggestion - let the NPCs follow you into other areas if their speed/stamina is equal or greater than your characters.  Think about it, if you can outrun it then it should not follow you, but if its speed and stamina are both better than you then it should be able to follow/enter the next area you arrive in... and when you do enter that area, your speed/stamina should be reduced so you are in essence at a huge disadvantage.  This is just a suggestion of the top of my head, but the point is a better more realistic system will increase gameplay experience.
The key to having successful AI is aiming for quality versus quantity.  There may be times when you truly want a bunch of dumb zombie NPCs who just stand there until they personally are hit over the head with an axe before they react but in my view, the bulk of the game should involve fewer NPCs but far more intelligent and cunning. 

Just two more suggestions:
  • If group members keep falling/injured in battle, then they should like you less and less until they finally leave.  There has to be a consequence otherwise the 'losses' are not as impacting/important.
  • Stamina, speed and leaving characters of your group behind - if running away was ever allowed in the game as I suggested above, then some characters who are too slow, weighted down by heavy gear should not make it through to a new area but instead say forced to one on one fight with their chaser NPC.  If they fall, they die and no longer are available to you. It is all about consequences, if you abandon them then there should be some penalty.

Anyways, thats enough from me! lol
Good gaming people 

Modifié par krullstar, 28 novembre 2009 - 11:16 .

#2
stevebo77
Posté 28 novembre 2009 - 11:35

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I think I'm in total agreement here.

I was playing down in dwarf city last night and was attacked by a group of political fanatics WHILE those same fanatics and my party were intermixed with the royal guards. I didn't even realize the royal guards were there until bodies were on the floor and there were 4 guards just standing around in the piles of bodies. It was then that I started having ideas similar to yours, tho less eloquently stated than the above notes hehe.

Really, guards? You didn't see annnny of that just go down? K bye, thanks for the hand.

If NPCs are just there for decoration, maybe make them statues or tapestries instead.

#3
Guest_krullstar_*
Posté 28 novembre 2009 - 11:47

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'If NPCs are just there for decoration, maybe make them statues or tapestries instead.'

Exactly. So much time and effort to creating an amazing story, a vast and interesting world but then to simply plot down these 'static' NPCs? The thing is, the programmers should really have not much difficulty in the implementing the suggestions above, so I am at a loss to understand why they opted for dumbed down NPCs.  Perhaps they didn't have time etc to do so... 

The only issue I can see them have with the suggestions I listed is 'getting rid' of party members but that can easily be remedied by making the 'essential' characters to the plot of the story have higher endurance and speed than the NPCs & or main character.  

Personally, I would rather pay for a smarter AI than the current style of add ons available.  If people are working on creating new content and selling it, why not enhance AI and sell that as an add on too? :P

Modifié par krullstar, 28 novembre 2009 - 11:53 .

#4
Cyrilix2
Posté 28 novembre 2009 - 11:55

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Haha, even funnier, is when I can't get by a certain battle, I just pull out my bow, and pull ONE PERSON AT A TIME, even when this guy is right in the middle of a pack. Well, what can I say? It feels like I'm cheating, and to be honest, I sort of am. :P

Modifié par Cyrilix2, 28 novembre 2009 - 11:55 .

#5
Guest_krullstar_*
Posté 28 novembre 2009 - 12:01

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Sadly, I did the same thing too. Yes, we are in fact cheating or rather taking advantage of the 'lacking' AI. It is not hard for them to program the AI to react in such situations, so not sure what happened here - maybe there is something I have not thought of, some reasoning...

I mean, if you were in stealth mode, picked one off, then a huge uproar happens as they all start looking around for you - that would be awesome! Then again another opportunity and you pick another one, so the NPCs go even crazier, move around faster, maybe even some closer in the direction of where they 'think' the shots were coming from - can you imagine the intensity level?  The excitement factor?  

The sad reality is a spider on my wall has more intelligence than most AI's in games...

Modifié par krullstar, 28 novembre 2009 - 12:03 .

#6
Jordi B
Posté 28 novembre 2009 - 12:37

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I don't think pulling is cheating (it's just really cheesy and I don't do it unless absolutely necessary). You're taking advantage of the (lack of) AI, sure, but you are always doing that. Maybe if the devs would admit that this is a bug, then I might start to consider it cheating. I think it's far more likely that it was designed as something that you, the player, can smartly take advantage of (just like NPCs going after your tank first, even though that's the last guy they should want to attack). When you play against a computer you almost always more-or-less "exploit" the AI.



I do agree that the suggestions in the first post would definitely make the game even better than it already is, although I haven't really been bothered by this lack of AI. I don't think such changes can be added in via DLC though. Making gameplay changes like these would basically require that Bioware admits that this lack of AI was not designed, which would make it kind of like a bug, which would make it something for a patch and not DLC people have to pay for.
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