[quote]UnAffectedFiddle wrote...
[quote]Malificis wrote...
You display an embarrassing lack of understanding.
will keep this short -
1) Morrigan grew up in a swamp with an evil demi-god. She has known nothing else for her entire life. Not society not anything, hence she is massively repressed in terms of knowledge of politics, society and social dealings. Does not understand this village issue or politics surrounding it - merely sees it as help people and waste time doing important thing as she sees it in saving Aemon or help them and risk death. These are characters in a fictional world - they dont know you can load game and redo things if you die.
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She likes to pipe up shes been taught deception, manipulation and all these wonderful thing sby her mother. She mentions batting her eyelids and acting innocent and coy to have the guards side with her against a Chasind man. She has made trips into small villages as well and has watched them and some of the social interactions still confuse her such as physical contact and so on.
I can get the lack of social understanding, but her actions seem a total contradiction of her friendship/romance line. Its like Morrigan is replaced by a doppleganger during these scenes. She must have plenty of educaiton by flemeth anyway as indicated by her knowledge of quite a few things. Listen to her baiting Alistair or arguing with other party members. There she shows a clever, deep and cynical personality with hints of manipulative agendas.
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2) Morrigan is used to comfort and an easy life due to her patron, Flemeth. She does not see the difficulty in things because things have never been particularly hard - Flemeth COULD probably just walk into Denerim and kill Loghain - and this is how Morrigan has been taught to be behave, and the ONLY method of behaviour she has ever learnt. She isnt as powerful as Flemeth but the reasoning is identical, understandably.[/quote]
Yet by all accounts her childhood was quite hard being hunted and simply having flemeth as her mother. Frequently hit and talked down to in an attempt to harden her to life as well as generally being left to fend for herself. Any attempts at seeking simple pleasures in life were ruthlessly crushed under foot as being "childish and weak". Flemeth quite clearly shows she is cunning, canny and dangerous. In fact I would not see her as ever advicing something so silly becaue she seems to grasp the sheer stupidity of mindless slaughter. Flemeth is after all, the one who pushes you to seek out the treaties and face up to your responsibilities and even understands the Blight transcends good and evil.
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3) (")The Mages are locked within? Fitting.(") - Morrigan at Tower.
Total anathema to her way of life with flemeth - being enclosed in a building with no freedom. She sees the mages as having given up their freedom and allowing templar dominance thus resenting them maybe even hating them for not fighting back thus allowing them to persecute her and Flemeth. It is irrelevant whether they could or not - as I have explained, such things do not factor into Morrigan's mode of thought as she has lived with an all powerful supermage. She doesnt consider the fact that the templars would be free as she doesnt understand institutionalisation or their lyrium addiction - hence she would assume they would go elsewhere and forget hunting apostates, and if she hypothetically realised that they could continue, she would assume she would be safe due to Flemeth's protection, and later, yours. [/quote]
Again and again her baiting of Alistair suggests she has a keen knowledge of what Templars are and how they operate. She and her mother have been baiting them for years. She seems quite capable of realising the Circle and Templars are not buddies, I believe she even makes mention to the Templars essentially being the mages Jailers.
She then expects you to save Jowan, a weak willed, whiny man. He has never done anything successful by himself and sits in jail wallowing in self pity. I kinda get she relates to atonement (Sten for example), but again its jarring when any decision that involves atonement that the PC makes is met with scorn.
Here is the irony, Morrigan has no freedom. Flemeth has made most of her decisions, guided her actions and even sends her with the Wardens. Not once does Morrigan ever simply strike out for independence or "freedom". In fact shes so scared she asks you to kill her mother. How can she possibly turn about and claim people asking you for help are "weak" after that?
Flemeth never seems to act as a super mage, in fact Morrigan isnt even sure she believes half of what they say about Flemeth and mentions that Flemeth hardly elaborates on anything. So the belief that Flemeth would nanny Morrigan seems ludicrous. Flemeth would also not want a future body for habitation if it was weak enough to crumble before any opposition so Morrigan wouldnt be able to rely on Flemeth all the time. That would be a sign of weakness.
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4) Helping people would mean going against her policy of isolation and her own superiority complex. "don't get close to anyone without a really really good reason" is Morrigan's main mindset. Coupled with lack of social knowledge all her actions can be explained to a basic level. [/quote]
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Yet she does help Sten (understandable, recognises his self jailing as a form of disicpline) and Jowan for example. The two character are miles apart, one being self sufficient, strong and matter of fact while another is an idealist, simpering failure.
I like Morrigan but she seems to flip flop between two people sometimes. I realise she is a basic play on mother nature, evidenced by her specialisation and original spell selection. Entropy to favour chaos of nature and shapeshifting to focus on a more animal intent and logic to her actions (survival of the fittest). The bear does not care for social graces, it will kill to ensure its own safety and that of its young and the weakest animal in the pack is a liability and so on. Of course much of nature also works in harmony to achieve a form of symbiosis but whatever.
Her knowledge of Templar dogma, intiation and tactics shows she has a clear understanding of the organisaiton. She comprehends and has learnt about the Chantry from Flemeth. She hasnt been taught the frivolous social graces because they arent necessary but time and tme again its shown flemeth has groomed and taught her a LOT about manipulation, history, religion, magic and people.
Its quite obvious she has a superiority complex, but the lack of being able to express your motivations to her as you can with other characters (game mechanic to rationalise otherwise "goody" choices) makes her frustrating to deal with. All you get to show her is the face value of your action, not the intent.[/quote]
interesting, some things i hadnt overly considered. esp. the bear and magic learning things.
1) remember learning about people and knowing them are not the same thing. a serious political situation and moral issue like redcliffe is far far from going to a small village and leaving because she is seen as an outsider. learning about all these subjects like history wont help in social context.
2) shes not interested in a relationship, just casual sex. she doesnt "flip flop" between two people except in the bedroom scene at the end (badly written scene with a 1size fits all approach to dialogue).
3) flemeth didnt teach her the level of cunning and dangerous needed to be a threat or guess flemeth's intentions. we can learn a lot about morrigan from flemeth but only pieces.
4) indeed a keen knowledge of templars. a mistake when i said she doesnt understand them - perhaps she simply sees herself in too strong a position for them too be too much of a threat now, afterall, you are going to be the world's saviour and flemeth protects her from them. she doesnt know flemeths plan at this point! This is unclear. but she still hates the mages for being weak.
5) yes haha the freedom thing is different though. she doesnt equate the mages situation to her own in the right way, a character flaw naturally. she sees flemeth as all powerful so she cant rebel against her - she doesnt realise the mages see it in a similar fashion (cant rebel without blood magic etc).
6) this development makes it even more interesting that she should help Jowan, the whiny mage. why does she do this? i saw it as a very deep-in feeling that he should be freed because he is an outsider like her, trying to succeed in life (yet he is a failure as you said) and he is trapped by those who would wish to trap her. a feeling of unexplainable, ephemeral similarity in a few aspects? a rare sign of pity from Morrigan who sees what could of happened to her? subjective.
a good post.
Modifié par Malificis, 29 novembre 2009 - 01:09 .
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If saved, Redcliffe could provide soldiers and supplies to the army. = Valuable Resources
