885 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

lol, that'd actually make great addition on the add-on page.

[Malificis]

Volourn wrote...

the Circle are scumbags who murder anyone who don't obey them and the chantry. The Circle is just a tool of the Chantry. Look at how quickly they wanted to murder Jowan simnply because he wanted to leave the circle and because OMG he may be ablood mage (of cours,e it doesn't help that he goes on to be an attempted murderer but that's a different story).

The Circle makes a habit of helping Chantry and templars hunt down wild mages (ie. those not under their control) and execute them no matter what they are doing. Morrigan has every right to hate them because they wnat her dead simply because she exists outside the circle.

Why should she shed a single tear for these monsters? Espicially since they are so weak they basiclaly destory their own circle cause they can't control their magic? Neither Flemeth or Morrigan ever lose control of their magics. Nor is Morrigan a huge fan of abominations or demons or even blood magic (thoguh you can give her the specialty I think ).



"She gets angry because it's been her plan since day one and everything she's done has led up to that.
If you think she cares for your PC, congratulations, you've been successfully manipulated by a poorly written obnoxious 1-digit IQ would-be-a-Mary-Sue-but-isn't-because-she's-so-incredibly-stupid evil witch.

Wouldn't be so irritating if BioWare itself didn't share the fanboy's infatuation with this cardboard lunatic."

Yeah, yeah. I get it. It's because of her boobies. And, no she is Mary Sue. Nor is she a stupid, evil witch. That's Wynne whose probably played a role and executing innocent mages simple because they work outside the circle. The Circle kidnaps children from their parents (with the chantry's help) for the main purpose of BRAINWASHING them. Afterall, that's what started the whole Connor mess.

Again, why should Morrigan shed a single tear for the destruction of an organization that WANTS HER DEAD SIMPLY BECAUSE SHE ISN'T ONE OF THEM. *shrug*

GO MORRIGAN GO!

you are almost as ridiculous as Angry One just on the other side -.-

Modifié par Malificis, 30 novembre 2009 - 09:41 .

[Alex Savchovsky]

Skellimancer wrote...

So killing "Kitty" demon; Morrigan Disapproves-3
Killing Conner (possessed kid); Morrigan Approves +3

riiiiight

It's perfectly reasonable, if you know what Morrigan values and what she does not.
See, Kitty has a lot common with Sten - it is a creature of power, deprived of its freedom. So Morrigan mostly pities the demon and is more willing to let him free.
Conner is not such a case, his demon is not caged. Thus, no pity for him.

[Malificis]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yes, she's chaotic stupid, but that's not bad writing.

There's no such thing as 'academic style' character analysis. Academia is everything from kindergarten to grad school and covers a diverse number of subjects. You might be referring to analyzing the Jungian archetype that Morrigan is part of; to how she indicative of popular notions of women and femininity; to how she compares to other BioWare female character or to femme fatales in film noir; or how the voice actor, character animations, and design convey her character.

Well clearly im not talking about kindergarten letter-to-santa style. don't be ridiculous ;s

Main themes would be presentation of character, explanation of character development and actions presuming the PC romances her.
Covering voice acting to design and animation as part of that.
Cover implicit/explicit on approval moments and actions.

Not comparing her to other women in films as i dont really watch many but may use literature... if you've read Thomas Hardy she bears interesting similarity to one of his more famous characters, Eustacia.

She is chaotic stupid on only some things, but normally for understandable reasons.

[Malificis]

Skellimancer wrote...

So killing "Kitty" demon; Morrigan Disapproves-3
Killing Conner (possessed kid); Morrigan Approves +3

riiiiight

yay someone else who is totally unable to think anywhere deeper than the initial top-layer facts that they are shown.
2 TOTALLY different situations.
Alex S has right idea.

Skellimancer on the Cold War:
LIEK, USSR ALMOST NUKED NEW YORK
BUT DIDNT ALMOST NUKE NEW ZEALAND!
WTF?!

Modifié par Malificis, 30 novembre 2009 - 08:37 .

[Skellimancer]

Malificis wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

So killing "Kitty" demon; Morrigan Disapproves-3
Killing Conner (possessed kid); Morrigan Approves +3

riiiiight

yay someone else who is totally unable to think anywhere deeper than the initial top-layer facts that they are shown.
2 TOTALLY different situations.
Alex S has right idea.

Skellimancer on the Cold War:
LIEK, USSR ALMOST NUKED NEW YORK
BUT DIDNT ALMOST NUKE NEW ZEALAND!
WTF?!

What?

[Alex Savchovsky]

Skellimancer wrote...
What? 

Come on, playing "oh, what?" is no argument. A flamewar is only good when there are actual arguments in it.

[Skellimancer]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...
What? 

Come on, playing "oh, what?" is no argument. A flamewar is only good when there are actual arguments in it.

I liked his post

[Volourn]

"But there was proof of him studying Blood Magic"



And, Blood Magic is not neccessarily evil. And, oh, stop with the defending the Circle. They have no problem helping to hunt down apostate mages. Apostates are not, by defintion, evil or even a threat; but they get hunted down anyways.



Again, why should Morrigan shed a single tear over the destruction of an organization dedicated to hunting her down like a dog? The answer is simple she shouldn't.





"you are almost as ridiculous as Angry One just one the other side -.-"



Why are people so butthurt they have to attack the poster? Just deal with the issue. This is a Morrigan thread not a Volourn thread.



Connor Demons vs Kitty Demon are just two exmaples of people just look at the basics and not the actual scenarios. It should be obvious why Morirgan supports one and not the other.



Then again, I had no prob doing good things and getting Morrigan's approval. *shrug*





The only people who are simple minded ar ethe ones who view Morrigan through their own shallow eyes. There's a lot going on there. On top of this, sure, at times she cna be a hypocirte. So is basically every characetr in the game. So, are 99% of people in real life. It's called being human.



And, oh, it's also not about sex/love too, as you can befriend Morrigan just fine even as a woman despite the fact she has no interest in you. Go figure.

[Skellimancer]

Lots of rage in this thread.



Just add a "kill Morrigan" option and everything is fine.

[Mavkiel]

I agreed to aid Bann Teagan because:

a) He expresses support for the Grey Wardens and opposition to Loghain. = Natural Ally
If saved, Redcliffe could provide soldiers and supplies to the army. = Valuable Resources

Morrigan complains and disapproves (-5).  She'd rather I let Redcliffe perish (losing allies and resources) and assumes that I've acted out of compassion or some other motivation of which she doesn't approve.  There is no option to persuade her that my motivations are anything other than altruistic.  In contrast, Leliana can often be persuaded to accept dubious acts for the sake of the "greater good".

She could simply be assuming redcliff is a lost cause. No-one in the castle responds to outside shouts. Zombie hordes pour out of the castle every night. One could come to a very logical conclusion that everyone inside is either dead or possessed. If that is the likely case, why bother with them? You probably have other allies, you need to recuit still. Your a grey warden, not a demon hunting templer. You cut your losses and move on to the next allie who will hopefully give you the troops you need without jumping through hurdles.

Now I am not saying the above logic is nice, but it is cold and logical. Very much in style with her personality imo. If you take Sten with you, he also disapproves of joining in the fight. Only difference is you can get a persude check. That might be the only thing that needs to be added. Of course that assumes she is open to being presuded and not hell bent on whatever course she chooses(Which again strikes me as in synch with her personality).

[Alex Savchovsky]

Skellimancer wrote...

Lots of rage in this thread.

Just add a "kill Morrigan" option and everything is fine.

Yeah, because lots of people (including myself) consider her the best character in the game.
By the way, if we accept for a moment the theory that she's evil, are you any less evil, wanting so badly to kill her? 

P.S. For those that don't like Morrigan's company... Have you ever tried leaving her at the camp and quitting whining on the forums?

[Skellimancer]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Lots of rage in this thread.

Just add a "kill Morrigan" option and everything is fine.

Yeah, because lots of people (including myself) consider her the best character in the game.
By the way, if we accept for a moment the theory that she's evil, are you any less evil, wanting so badly to kill her? 

P.S. For those that don't like Morrigan's company... Have you ever tried leaving her at the camp and quitting whining on the forums?

No.

~Sten

[Alex Savchovsky]

Skellimancer wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Lots of rage in this thread.

Just add a "kill Morrigan" option and everything is fine.

Yeah, because lots of people (including myself) consider her the best character in the game.
By the way, if we accept for a moment the theory that she's evil, are you any less evil, wanting so badly to kill her? 

P.S. For those that don't like Morrigan's company... Have you ever tried leaving her at the camp and quitting whining on the forums?

No.

~Sten

Figured that myself. Admitting it still does you credit... as Morrigan would say.

[Volourn]

You can also kick her out of the party completely... Problem solved. The only character youa re stuck with Alistar the Crybaby Wynne Murderer.

[Skellimancer]

Volourn wrote...

You can also kick her out of the party completely... Problem solved. The only character youa re stuck with Alistar the Crybaby Wynne Murderer.

Hey, Alistair may be a crybaby (and he is) but he is also the camps cook. Morrigan is just a wet blanket covered in Anthrax.

[Vajrana]

I believe Morrigan plays a huge role into this Game as most games there will always be a character no one likes. As for me if you don't like her disapproval switch her out and bring Wynne for this Redcliff quest. afterwards go back into the village and switch her right back in. Although her company with Sten makes the game interesting I believe they created this game for your own choosing of what they made. whether you choose to be accompanied by Morrigan is up to you. Though in truth I wished she do more things that are evil. Like betrayal.

[Tirronan]

Hell I don't know she seems to be a complex character in someways, easy to get on her back foot if she has to react in a positive way in romantic situations. Her giving the ring really was a bit of an insight to me. Gee I guess being raised as an only child by a demon that intends only to possess you would tend to make one a bit amoral and self centered to the point of being almost a survivor which she most certainly is. She lends a lot of color to the game for me and I see her as almost fragile in some ways. I think that the fact that I found myself wanting to protect her even as I understood that I could never count on her was pretty interesting. I'm glad that they put her in.

[Alex Savchovsky]

Skellimancer wrote...

Hey, Alistair may be a crybaby (and he is) but he is also the camps cook. Morrigan is just a wet blanket covered in Anthrax.

She's not like that. I have some experience regarding her and blankets, so you can trust me.
Seriously, Alistair... he's constantly like "hey, how could you sacrifice that utterly hysterical b***h to save the kid!!!! I'm mad on you! What? Ummm... you actually have a point... ok, I'm not mad, I'm just depressed... again..."

[Akka le Vil]

tmp7704 wrote...

Well but again, why would she want to try? She only can get what she wants on the eve of fight with archdemon and if she doesn't believe any sane person could refuse an offer like that, why bother pretending she is something she isn't until that happens? There's nothing to gain from it, and you know her opinion on doing things which give no gain.

Disagree.
She understand that Alistair doesn't like nor trust her and will refuse to bed her unless the PC asks. So she CAN imagines that people could refuse, and that they could refuse because she was a b*tch to them.
And she still acts like a b*tch toward the two persons her plan entirely depend upon.
This is simply idiocy.

She constantly shows that she's a pragmatist concerned first and foremost with her own survival and/or goals.

And that's the point. She doesn't tell you anything unless it furthers her goals. She held the information about dying when slaying the Archdemon until the very end, there is nothing indicating the PC she might not hold other informations just as crucial. Nobody sane would trust her, and she brang this distrust upon herself.

Let's not split hair to try to find justification. She has the absolute need of Grey Warden killing the Archdemon, and she upset the two that she has under her hand. Remember that the PC could send her away at any time if she was too much of a pain.
And she still berates him/her and doesn't miss an opinion to antagonize him/her and Alistair.

That's just plain square STUPID. It makes just as much sense as Loghain destroying half his army before facing two invasions. It's acting counter-productive to your goals and being an idiot.

[tmp7704]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Disagree.
She understand that Alistair doesn't like nor trust her and will refuse to bed her unless the PC asks.

I suppose this may depend on how your playthrough goes. My character was friends with her so it made it much more convenient for her to ask me to convince Alistair (since Alistair generally does as told) than try to convince him personally. But if it came to it i have no problem picturing her seducing him directly instead, without even telling him there's anything more to it than just sex. In this sense, it's more of a game script issue to let the player make the decision and have impact on the outcome, than anything else. 

She has the absolute need of Grey Warden killing the Archdemon, and she upset the two that she has under her hand. Remember that the PC could send her away at any time if she was too much of a pain.
And she still berates him/her and doesn't miss an opinion to antagonize him/her and Alistair.

This is interesting part, actually. What happens if you do send her away earlier, does she still show up on that final night with her offer?

[Malificis]

Akka le Vil wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Well but again, why would she want to try? She only can get what she wants on the eve of fight with archdemon and if she doesn't believe any sane person could refuse an offer like that, why bother pretending she is something she isn't until that happens? There's nothing to gain from it, and you know her opinion on doing things which give no gain.

Disagree.
She understand that Alistair doesn't like nor trust her and will refuse to bed her unless the PC asks. So she CAN imagines that people could refuse, and that they could refuse because she was a b*tch to them.
And she still acts like a b*tch toward the two persons her plan entirely depend upon.
This is simply idiocy.

She constantly shows that she's a pragmatist concerned first and foremost with her own survival and/or goals.

And that's the point. She doesn't tell you anything unless it furthers her goals. She held the information about dying when slaying the Archdemon until the very end, there is nothing indicating the PC she might not hold other informations just as crucial. Nobody sane would trust her, and she brang this distrust upon herself.

Let's not split hair to try to find justification. She has the absolute need of Grey Warden killing the Archdemon, and she upset the two that she has under her hand. Remember that the PC could send her away at any time if she was too much of a pain.
And she still berates him/her and doesn't miss an opinion to antagonize him/her and Alistair.

That's just plain square STUPID. It makes just as much sense as Loghain destroying half his army before facing two invasions. It's acting counter-productive to your goals and being an idiot.

Obviously wrong.
1 You can trust her all you like as long as she has a reason to help you, which she does.

2 Doesn't matter if she is sent away. She would still come to you and offer you the ritual to save your life - most people who are being honest and playing their character as they would themselves would still take it so Morrigan gets what she wants. But more convenient to stay with you. She is totally reliant on the fact that she has the easiest route out for you to live on after the Ademon.

3 She can bait Alistair all she likes - the PC is obviously the one with the power, she quickly identifies Alistair as a simpering idiot. Indeed, he only becomes a leader when he requires vengeance over Loghain. It will not cause a problem for her to annoy Alistair. She is also reliant over keeping Alistair down and subservient to the PC, a good reason to bring down his self esteem and bring yours up (hence the sex). She is assuming you will kill the Ademon, not Alistair. It would help to be in your good graces. However her arrogance and set opinion on things will not make her bend very much in terms of your actions if you act like a fool. I.e. if she likes you she will happily befriend/sleep with you but if she doesnt, her personality doesnt allow her to do so.

4 Read "The Prince" by Niccolo Machiavelli and/or "The Art of Political Manipulation" by W. H. Riker.

[RunCDFirst]

Malificis wrote...

2 Doesn't matter if she is sent away. She would still come to you and offer you the ritual to save your life - most people who are being honest and playing their character as they would themselves would still take it so Morrigan gets what she wants. But more convenient to stay with you. She is totally reliant on the fact that she has the easiest route out for you to live on after the Ademon.

Not true, some of us would have Loghain there to take the fall instead of ourselves.

[Skellimancer]

RunCDFirst wrote...

Malificis wrote...

2 Doesn't matter if she is sent away. She would still come to you and offer you the ritual to save your life - most people who are being honest and playing their character as they would themselves would still take it so Morrigan gets what she wants. But more convenient to stay with you. She is totally reliant on the fact that she has the easiest route out for you to live on after the Ademon.

Not true, some of us would have Loghain there to take the fall instead of ourselves.

Thats the plan!

[tmp7704]

RunCDFirst wrote...

Not true, some of us would have Loghain there to take the fall instead of ourselves.

Which works only until the point where Loghain holds the very same view and thinks it should be the other guy not him to take the fall... relying on the goodwill of that guy is hardly more sensible than relying on Morrigan telling you the truth.