885 réponses à ce sujet

[Driveninhifi]

Lughsan35 wrote...
She's never had a friend before which leads to her being completely inconsistent as that friendship butts up against what she and her mother have set out to do...

She doesn't need to be on your good side.  Especially if she just wants you to **** her for conception purposes.

Plenty of reason to be confused about caring about this person who shouldn't matter to her at all...yet does.

Yeah, and I thought this came across as pretty obvious during the conversations with her. The writing and the voicework did a good job with getting across the whole "Why am I in love with this person? I thought only weaklings fall in love...but I really want this person around!" thought process she's going through. That, coupled with the fact that she's far more naive and inexperienced than she wants anyone to realize gives you a somewhat inconsistent character. 
Though I do think they use her as the devil on your shoulder far too much - though that is a function of the fact that you are constrained in your responses. It would be more realistic to tone it down the more she loves/respects the PC, so it actually feels like the character is developing outside of camp.

[Akka le Vil]

tmp7704 wrote...

Doesn't this come back to the concept letting personal like/dislike for Morrigan cloud your judgement wheter you save your own life by taking her offer... is silliness itself, much like cutting off one's nose to spite the face?

First, it maybe silly, but it's common human behaviour.
And second, how do you know she will make you an offer that will save your life ? You can send her away anytime, and she's with right nearly right from the beginning. As far as the PC know once reaching Lothering, she's just an unthrustworthy b*tch with an attitude, and if she continues to be a pain, why keep her ?

By making her a nuisance, she just makes it more likely to be sent her own way or to end up on the irritated side of the two only Grey Wardens she knows. This is, again, what the argument boils down, and how stupid she looks.

[Alex Savchovsky]

Akka le Vil wrote...
As far as the PC know once reaching Lothering, she's just an unthrustworthy b*tch with an attitude, and if she continues to be a pain, why keep her ?

Depends on the character, but here are several reasons:
* You agreed with Flemeth to take her. Having her leave seems like not holding to your word.
* You have a Blight to stop and you can hardly afford to lose ANY help. And she's powerful.
* You actually didn't find her to be an "untrustworthy b*tch", because she actually helped you find your treaties.
* In Lothering she's mostly pain for Alistair, who actually needed some sharp words to pick him out of his depression about Duncan dying.
* Also in Lothering, she offered a different point of view on several subjects, and she made sense. Resolving all possible conflicts personally and running Chantry errands surely seem like waste of time in front of the coming Blight and her sarcastic way of saying that is quite charming.

I'm sure I can think of other reasons too, but I'm more interested to hear a reason or two why should I consider not keeping her. Unless your character has a fanatic templar-like views on the "illegal" mages, that is.

[Akka le Vil]

*sigh*

I'm not asking for pretexts or explanations, I have seen enough splitting hair nitpicking to know that someone can ALWAYS come up with something to justify anything.

It was a rethorical question, meant to highlight how counter-productive it's for her to make herself a nuisance, as it increase the likelyhood she will be expelled or she'll be able to convince the Grey Warden to go with her schemes.

It seems that the entire concept of "counter-productive" is completely lost for many, from people trying to justify that Loghain was just so smart to destroy his own forces before invasions, and now Morrigan, who seems justified to completely ignore her supposed character in order to make things harder on her in her quest of higher efficiency.

Where is a good /facepalm image when you need it ?

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 01 décembre 2009 - 09:55 .

[Alex Savchovsky]

Akka le Vil wrote...

It was a rethorical question, meant to highlight how counter-productive it's for her to make herself a nuisance, as it increase the likelyhood she will be expelled or she'll be able to convince the Grey Warden to go with her schemes.

It seems that the entire concept of "counter-productive" is completely lost for many, from people trying to justify that Loghain was just so smart to destroy his own forces before invasions, and now Morrigan, who seems justified to completely ignore her supposed character in order to make things harder on her in her quest of higher efficiency.

The concept you're trying to explain here is called "humanity", I think.

[MartinJHolm]

In general Morrigan doesn't want to do goodie-goddie things for people, she'd rather leave them to their own fate and think of the bigger picture.



I guess the problem with that particular fight is that you can't advance the storyline without doing it.



Solution, take her out of the party - add her back before the battle.

[RavenholmeCP42]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

The villagers are not a part of your mission as a Grey Warden. Just as Lothering was not important to the local bann, Morrigan feels that Redcliffe Village is not important to the war effort. And she is technically correct, though the information you get at the time is pretty muddy. Natural reaction in my book.

That's my take.

Well, not really. Because who do you think are the footsoldiers in any war? That's right, the peasants. Everyone of the mud grubbers is a potential meat shield in chainmail with a spear between you and the Darkspawn, and if you do your damnedest to save them out of what appears to be compassion, they might just throw themselves between you and a hurlock that would've killed you, out of gratitude. No matter if that's why you did it in the first place (For a good example of this in literature, look up Ciaphas Cain: Hero of the Imperium)

Morrigan is chaotic stupid, no two ways about it. That or she was just incredibly poorly written.

Modifié par RavenholmeCP42, 01 décembre 2009 - 11:45 .

[Alex Savchovsky]

RavenholmeCP42 wrote...
Morrigan is chaotic stupid, no two ways about it. That or she was just incredibly poorly written.

The pure amount of topics discussing Morrigan says you're VERY wrong about that.

[Alex Savchovsky]

RavenholmeCP42 wrote...
Morrigan is chaotic stupid, no two ways about it. That or she was just incredibly poorly written.

The pure amount of topics discussing Morrigan says you're VERY wrong about that.

[Akka le Vil]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

The concept you're trying to explain here is called "humanity", I think.

Not every human is stupid and contradictory - though yeah, it happens very regularly.
Morrigan definitely seems to be.

[Tale Dakari]

It's annoying how everyone complains about Morrigan just because she won't agree with his/her character all the time. I really don't know what's the big deal. I prefer it that way, I don't need another Leliana spewing "oh the maker will be so happy with you" every time I do what can be described as a good deed. And even though she dissaproved of what I was doing half the time, I still got her to love me in the end. If I wanted a character that always agreed with me, I'd keep the dog in my party at all times.

[Curlain]

Actually Dog's got his whole own agenda going on, he's really the true master manipulator influencing your PC down the path leading to Mabari world domination (even Morrigan says he's a master manipulator, cause she does it herself  )

Modifié par Curlain, 01 décembre 2009 - 12:41 .

[Chalenheri]

Hmm, inconsistent. In Lothering Morrigan says "Let's do some quests, we need experience". And after Lothering "gathering xp by helping people" suddenly is bad ^^

[Derengard]

I've just a little question concerning the dialogs with Morrigan. Giving her a mirror as a gift after she's told of her mother smashing a mirror that she liked as child, gives the option to say "It's a gift, you have to give nothing in return" which will leave her touched and gives a massive approal rating of 20 but leaves her character apparently the same as before. Saying that you expect her to change her demeanor in return will let her accept the demand due to the special nature of the gift and she even reacts differently when she's selected afterwards (giggling (though likely artificial) and different little phrases from before). However, the rating is only +13.

So what is better? Is it better to leave her sort it out herself with +20, or will nothing happen from that (apart from pure "romance option"), or is the only way to expect something to change from that by saying change you demeanor with only +13 rating?

Modifié par Derengard, 01 décembre 2009 - 02:22 .

[Alex Savchovsky]

Derengard wrote...

I've just a little question concerning the dialogs with Morrigan. Giving her a mirror as a gift after she's told of her mother smashing a mirror that she liked as child, gives the option to say "It's a gift, you have to give nothing in return" which will leave her touched and gives a massive approal rating of 20 but leaves her character apparently the same as before. Saying that you expect her to change her demeanor in return will let her accept the demand due to the special nature of the gift and she even reacts differently when she's selected afterwards (giggling (though likely artificial) and different little phrases from before). However, the rating is only +13.

So what is better? Is it better to leave her sort it out herself with +20, or will nothing happen from that (apart from pure "romance option"), or is the only way to expect something to change from that by saying change you demeanor with only +13 rating?

Eh, better, powerplayers.... 
This choice depends entirely on how you role-play your character I think. You can get her approval to 100 anyways. It only matters what your character thinks of that choice.

[Derengard]

It's not just powerplaying, though that is fair enough. It's also about trying to understand the scripters'/writers' intention. The question is: will her dialog options change with one answer or the other? Then I think I'll go with this: "It only matters what your character thinks of that choice."

Modifié par Derengard, 01 décembre 2009 - 02:35 .

[Skellimancer]

Derengard wrote...

It's not just powerplaying, though that is fair enough. It's also about trying to understand the scripters'/writers' intention. The question is: will her dialog options change with one answer or the other? Then I think I'll go with this: "It only matters what your character thinks of that choice."

Is there an option to smash the mirror in her face?

[Alex Savchovsky]

Skellimancer wrote...

Is there an option to smash the mirror in her face?

You don't give up, do you? So confident and persistent. I actually like that. It also reminds me of a character, but if I say the name you'll probably disapprove.

[Roxlimn]

Morrigan disapproves because it doesn't further HER goals. She doesn't actually care about the Hero's goals.

[Akka le Vil]

Tale Dakari wrote...

It's annoying how everyone complains about Morrigan just because she won't agree with his/her character all the time. I really don't know what's the big deal.

The big deal is that you fail HARD at reading comprehension.

[Derengard]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Is there an option to smash the mirror in her face?

You don't give up, do you? So confident and persistent. I actually like that. It also reminds me of a character, but if I say the name you'll probably disapprove.

I think Morrigan wouldn't be so crude.

[Skellimancer]

Derengard wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Is there an option to smash the mirror in her face?

You don't give up, do you? So confident and persistent. I actually like that. It also reminds me of a character, but if I say the name you'll probably disapprove.

I think Morrigan wouldn't be so crude.

I would love to see her try.

[RavenholmeCP42]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

RavenholmeCP42 wrote...
Morrigan is chaotic stupid, no two ways about it. That or she was just incredibly poorly written.

The pure amount of topics discussing Morrigan says you're VERY wrong about that.

I didn't say her romance was, but she as a character is when dealing with situations other than the Grey Warden.

[Alex Savchovsky]

RavenholmeCP42 wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

RavenholmeCP42 wrote...
Morrigan is chaotic stupid, no two ways about it. That or she was just incredibly poorly written.

The pure amount of topics discussing Morrigan says you're VERY wrong about that.

I didn't say her romance was, but she as a character is when dealing with situations other than the Grey Warden.

I wasn't talking about her romance. Neither all the topics are about it.

@Skellimancer:
Nah, she would just suggest putting you into a cage. 

[Driveninhifi]

Derengard wrote...

I've just a little question concerning the dialogs with Morrigan. Giving her a mirror as a gift after she's told of her mother smashing a mirror that she liked as child, gives the option to say "It's a gift, you have to give nothing in return" which will leave her touched and gives a massive approal rating of 20 but leaves her character apparently the same as before. Saying that you expect her to change her demeanor in return will let her accept the demand due to the special nature of the gift and she even reacts differently when she's selected afterwards (giggling (though likely artificial) and different little phrases from before). However, the rating is only +13.

So what is better? Is it better to leave her sort it out herself with +20, or will nothing happen from that (apart from pure "romance option"), or is the only way to expect something to change from that by saying change you demeanor with only +13 rating?

Does the status on her slider go up a step when you say the line about "A gift for a beautiful woman..."? (from Warm -> Caring -> Adore -> Love) I think her reaction has to do with that. Also check what Wynne says about her, since she goes from "She's probably using you..." to "She really does love you" when the romance flag is tripped.