Another well written post. Agree...100%.
An interesting post from the Penny Arcade forums.
Débuté par
Tsantilas
, mars 14 2012 08:29
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#78
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:36
Lendorien
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Wow. That was extremely inciteful and well written. Like others I hope Bioware reads it. Even if they don't fix ME3, perhaps they'll at least be more aware of the writing pitfall thy fell into.
#79
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:42
sctdarby
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"She might as well be anyone. And that's the thing that nobody wanted said about their Shepard."
Exactly my sentiments. Knowing that in the grand scheme of things, my decisions played so little a role in the ending. The disappointment is so heavy, it makes my stomach hurt.
Exactly my sentiments. Knowing that in the grand scheme of things, my decisions played so little a role in the ending. The disappointment is so heavy, it makes my stomach hurt.
#80
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:43
Lugaidster
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This is the type of thing Bioware has to use as feedback.
#81
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:44
Monarchos915
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hoping eventually that with more posts/articles like this...bioware will see how and where they went wrong...
#82
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:47
dorsk188
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Reading the OP made me realize that the perfect ending was Shepard and Anderson watching the Earth turn below them and dying as the Crucible fired, destroying the Reaper treat.
We didn't need a choice of which color the fireworks should be. We didn't need a speech about what the Reapers were there for. We didn't need anything more than a pair of soldiers that died to take that hill.
We didn't need a choice of which color the fireworks should be. We didn't need a speech about what the Reapers were there for. We didn't need anything more than a pair of soldiers that died to take that hill.
#83
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:55
Laughing_Man
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Very good.
It's amazing to see so many different yet intelligent takes on "what's wrong with the ending".
What's even more surprising is to see that so many of them actually make alot of sense, makes you wonder what the hell was going on in the head of the people who made this thing.
It's amazing to see so many different yet intelligent takes on "what's wrong with the ending".
What's even more surprising is to see that so many of them actually make alot of sense, makes you wonder what the hell was going on in the head of the people who made this thing.
#84
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 08:02
Eulalia Danae
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Yeah...the author lost me the moment he/she said "i actually quite like the ending," in one of the comments beneath the article.
A few good points were made, but I disagreed on a few of them, particularly the dismissive view towards the importance of remaining true to thematic elements in the game, or at the very least not betraying them. I also didn't think Shepard had been defeated at the rise of the elevator, so much as the point where she accepted the options handed over by the god-child thereby accepting the premise that Organics and Synthetics will inevitably destroy each other.
A few good points were made, but I disagreed on a few of them, particularly the dismissive view towards the importance of remaining true to thematic elements in the game, or at the very least not betraying them. I also didn't think Shepard had been defeated at the rise of the elevator, so much as the point where she accepted the options handed over by the god-child thereby accepting the premise that Organics and Synthetics will inevitably destroy each other.
#85
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 08:23
Cirreus
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Thanks for posting this Tsantilas , it's sometimes hard to navigate the PA forums, as I'm sure it's hard for people to navigate BSN.
I disagree with Orikaeshigitae about the need to explain why the writing is bad, and heavily disagree with the road he took to get that conclusion. It's a skewed perspective on a bigger problem. There is game statistics we are not privy too. (for exmaple; I wouldn't be shocked to know if less than 10% of people had a ME1>>ME2>>ME3 playthrough complete & even less than 25% a complete ME2 import.) Statistics heavily determine were game resources go. There is also corporate pressure on were those resources go. "Orik" for short, ignores the biggiest problem of the game. It's not the just the "bad" writing, half-*ssed ending, but the intention of the product.
The consumer was marketed Mass Effect 3. We got Mass Effect's Ending. I was furious at the PA guys for suggesting that the Mass Effect 3 game was the end from the second the exe was launch, the disc spining up on the console. What did they see that I didn't ? I noticed most reviewers took a similar aproach. This is like going to see Stars Wars - Return of the Jedi, but only getting the battle of Endor (but no party with stormtrooper drumsets). The guys working in the field (game industry) saw it on the wall. But the consumer was blind sided by the marketing material. The ending was bad, a given. Can you imagine the reverse? Explain the ending only in a postive way ? You would need to explain the entire game, the series to get context. Orik glassed over why ME3 was sh*t to begin with & focused on the end game writing. That's like talking about the history of Delorean Moto Co., but focusing only on the lack of safety in gulwing doors. The game is marketed to the layman as Mass Effect 3. We didn't get that. It almost feels like we got an old school (sh*tty) expansion pack to Mass Effect 3 instead. In a nut shell, this is why you don't over analyze a bad work. There isn't some space magic logic behind why it's crap other than to avoid what went wrong. We can't rationalize Bioware's mistake too much. We can rationalize telling them were to stick it, and where we are not sticking our money anymore (until change happnes).
I disagree with Orikaeshigitae about the need to explain why the writing is bad, and heavily disagree with the road he took to get that conclusion. It's a skewed perspective on a bigger problem. There is game statistics we are not privy too. (for exmaple; I wouldn't be shocked to know if less than 10% of people had a ME1>>ME2>>ME3 playthrough complete & even less than 25% a complete ME2 import.) Statistics heavily determine were game resources go. There is also corporate pressure on were those resources go. "Orik" for short, ignores the biggiest problem of the game. It's not the just the "bad" writing, half-*ssed ending, but the intention of the product.
The consumer was marketed Mass Effect 3. We got Mass Effect's Ending. I was furious at the PA guys for suggesting that the Mass Effect 3 game was the end from the second the exe was launch, the disc spining up on the console. What did they see that I didn't ? I noticed most reviewers took a similar aproach. This is like going to see Stars Wars - Return of the Jedi, but only getting the battle of Endor (but no party with stormtrooper drumsets). The guys working in the field (game industry) saw it on the wall. But the consumer was blind sided by the marketing material. The ending was bad, a given. Can you imagine the reverse? Explain the ending only in a postive way ? You would need to explain the entire game, the series to get context. Orik glassed over why ME3 was sh*t to begin with & focused on the end game writing. That's like talking about the history of Delorean Moto Co., but focusing only on the lack of safety in gulwing doors. The game is marketed to the layman as Mass Effect 3. We didn't get that. It almost feels like we got an old school (sh*tty) expansion pack to Mass Effect 3 instead. In a nut shell, this is why you don't over analyze a bad work. There isn't some space magic logic behind why it's crap other than to avoid what went wrong. We can't rationalize Bioware's mistake too much. We can rationalize telling them were to stick it, and where we are not sticking our money anymore (until change happnes).
Modifié par Cirreus, 19 mars 2012 - 08:34 .
#86
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:59
Athro
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An excellent analysis - and right on the money, I feel.
#87
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 03:12
Fazumar
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This hits the nail on the head. 100% encapsulated and put into words what I, and likely many thousands of us felt upon reaching the "ending" of ME3.
Well done, sir.
Well done, sir.
#89
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 03:28
BeCeejed
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SandTrout wrote...
You guys don't get it and just want BioWare to compromise their artistic integrity!
I figured I'd get that out of the way.
My actual opinions: Right on, man. absolutely correct.
OMG LOLZ. had to repost, SandTrout. Best sarcasm ever.
This thread + social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10484483/ = most comprehensive arguments I have seen for BioWare's failure after such epic success ever. Keep on writing this kind of stuff people.
I will keep compiling it.
Now I understand why I felt like I was suddenly forced to play someone else's Shepherd. I thought the devs had written in their own Shepherd as the one whose ending everyone got. Kinda feels like they did. This makes a more comprehensive definition of how I can go from intimitely tied to my Shepherd's thoughts to being distanced from him suddenly and intensely.
#91
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 03:32
cyrrant
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The OP seems spot-on. I know that whole deal on Thessia riled me up. And then the ending just...just...ugh.
Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line
Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line
#93
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 03:37
dreaming_raithe
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Very well said. I sometimes like to pretend I can put my thoughts into words, and then someone comes along and writes something like this and proves me wrong.
Great read.
Great read.
#95
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 03:37
brian_breed
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Tsantilas wrote...
Fixed the formatting because the Bioware forums fail. Also bump.
And wrote a damned fine piece, at that. Nice work. Too tired to respond to it all but I applaud you for pointing out the last-minute swap of scope and affect in the ME trilogy.
#96
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 03:37
cyrrant
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BeCeejed wrote...
SandTrout wrote...
You guys don't get it and just want BioWare to compromise their artistic integrity!
I figured I'd get that out of the way.
My actual opinions: Right on, man. absolutely correct.
OMG LOLZ. had to repost, SandTrout. Best sarcasm ever.
This thread + social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10484483/ = most comprehensive arguments I have seen for BioWare's failure after such epic success ever. Keep on writing this kind of stuff people.
I will keep compiling it.
Now I understand why I felt like I was suddenly forced to play someone else's Shepherd. I thought the devs had written in their own Shepherd as the one whose ending everyone got. Kinda feels like they did. This makes a more comprehensive definition of how I can go from intimitely tied to my Shepherd's thoughts to being distanced from him suddenly and intensely.
I know I just posted, but that thread you linked is amazing! Everyone should read that one. So many insightful posts on the BSN tonight.
#97
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 03:39
brian_breed
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She might as well be anyone. And that's the thing that nobody wanted said about their Shepard.
That's what makes me sad enough to cry. I loved my character. I wanted to be like him. Turns out it doesn't matter.
#98
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 03:41
mastergpo
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I really hope they read this it's dead on of how i feel.
#100
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 03:44
LegatoSkyheart
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Yep, I agree. Would have been fine if the game ended with Shepard dieing right next to Anderson (with some Closure afterwards).
Also Default Mass Effect 3 Shepard made me think that I'm also right about another thing I had said.
The Ending of Mass Effect 3 only pertains to ONE Shepard not MANY.
Also Default Mass Effect 3 Shepard made me think that I'm also right about another thing I had said.
The Ending of Mass Effect 3 only pertains to ONE Shepard not MANY.
Modifié par LegatoSkyheart, 23 mars 2012 - 03:45 .
