If his main problem is that Shep is not the Catalyst, then he should be happy that according to latest leak Shepard is becoming the Catalyst at the end of ME3.
An interesting post from the Penny Arcade forums.
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Tsantilas
, mars 14 2012 08:29
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#127
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 06:01
jcmccorm
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Author seems to believe that the Deus Ex Machina ending comes from Deus Ex, and so that game should be the point of comparison here. Not the actual source, Ars Poetica, and how it explains a Deus Ex Machina ending. Using the game Deus Ex as the reference makes for a very poor argument.
Modifié par jcmccorm, 25 mars 2012 - 06:04 .
#128
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 06:07
Drumsmasher
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I liked Human Revolution, but that's the only disagreement on my part.
#129
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 06:37
Tesar
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Somewat disagree about DE:HR, but agree about ather part.
#130
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 06:48
Greed1914
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jcmccorm wrote...
Author seems to believe that the Deus Ex Machina ending comes from Deus Ex, and so that game should be the point of comparison here. Not the actual source, Ars Poetica, and how it explains a Deus Ex Machina ending. Using the game Deus Ex as the reference makes for a very poor argument.
Not when it's extremely relevant. It allows a comparison between two titles in the same medium, and if you actually compare the ending of the first Deus Ex to ME3, they are the same.
#131
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 07:08
Mighty_BOB_cnc
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Kub666 wrote...
latest leak
The what now?
#132
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 07:13
Byrdman
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This is the type of constructive criticism that BioWare should be focusing on. Mods, are you out there? Please forward this to whoever is in charge
#133
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 09:12
AtlasMickey
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I responded to this post when it was shortened and combined with others in You May Have Missed This (Part 1) thread but I didn't realze there was a thread here just for this topic.
Yes, I think it's brilliantly written (and is even better when it's shorter, as edited in the thread above) even though I disagree with just about everyone and in the end like the endings.
The idea that Shepard could have been the Catalyst floors me because of how close it actually happens in the Synthesis ending and because I like to think that Shepard's vision of the Catalyst as the boy is a product of her own psychology and not necessarily intended by the being.
I am so tempted to think about Shepard interacting with the Citadel's systems on a psychic level, similar in technology to the way she interacted with the beacons, and using the Citadel the way she would have used any computer to bring up a list of options on how to deploy the Crucible. The trouble is, she's dying, thinking about the senseless violence of the reapers and the people she's trying to protect, and so her use of the Citadel is not as clear as it should be. So, you can still argue that perhaps this is indeed the case. Shepard is not indoctrinated. She's just dying and her mind's interaction with the Crucible interface in the Citadel is majorly ****ed.
One thing that super bugs me about your standard indoc theory is how early some of you are eager to make something an hallucination. There are four whole separate scenes you want to gut meaning from when really there's only one scene that is problematic, which is where the OP says the narrative goes "off the rails" as Shepard levitates to the Catalyst. This is, after all, the only point where Shepard collapses out of her own lack of vitality, and not because she was just hit by a lazer blast, fell through a conduit, or been mind****ed by TIM.
The epilogue is deeply unsatisfying exactly for the reason the OP mentioned, which is that it makes "the Shepard" into just anybody, which for the player Shepard manifestly is not. But I guess that's the reason why it's an epilogue, tacked on to the story and not really a part of it. So I consider the positive and useful only, and I do mean only, for the purpose of disproving quack conspiracy theories like indoc by answering our question, "did that ALL actually happen?" with "YES that ALL happened" and that it was not a dream or hallucination, neither fraud nor deception.
This statement can still be accurate if you see the Catalyst not as the manifestation of a Reaper trying to control you, but merely as the interface to the Citadel's deployment of the Crucible. It can all be consistent and doesn't gut meaning from anything, two things you can't say about indoc.
Yes, I think it's brilliantly written (and is even better when it's shorter, as edited in the thread above) even though I disagree with just about everyone and in the end like the endings.
The idea that Shepard could have been the Catalyst floors me because of how close it actually happens in the Synthesis ending and because I like to think that Shepard's vision of the Catalyst as the boy is a product of her own psychology and not necessarily intended by the being.
I am so tempted to think about Shepard interacting with the Citadel's systems on a psychic level, similar in technology to the way she interacted with the beacons, and using the Citadel the way she would have used any computer to bring up a list of options on how to deploy the Crucible. The trouble is, she's dying, thinking about the senseless violence of the reapers and the people she's trying to protect, and so her use of the Citadel is not as clear as it should be. So, you can still argue that perhaps this is indeed the case. Shepard is not indoctrinated. She's just dying and her mind's interaction with the Crucible interface in the Citadel is majorly ****ed.
One thing that super bugs me about your standard indoc theory is how early some of you are eager to make something an hallucination. There are four whole separate scenes you want to gut meaning from when really there's only one scene that is problematic, which is where the OP says the narrative goes "off the rails" as Shepard levitates to the Catalyst. This is, after all, the only point where Shepard collapses out of her own lack of vitality, and not because she was just hit by a lazer blast, fell through a conduit, or been mind****ed by TIM.
The epilogue is deeply unsatisfying exactly for the reason the OP mentioned, which is that it makes "the Shepard" into just anybody, which for the player Shepard manifestly is not. But I guess that's the reason why it's an epilogue, tacked on to the story and not really a part of it. So I consider the positive and useful only, and I do mean only, for the purpose of disproving quack conspiracy theories like indoc by answering our question, "did that ALL actually happen?" with "YES that ALL happened" and that it was not a dream or hallucination, neither fraud nor deception.
This statement can still be accurate if you see the Catalyst not as the manifestation of a Reaper trying to control you, but merely as the interface to the Citadel's deployment of the Crucible. It can all be consistent and doesn't gut meaning from anything, two things you can't say about indoc.
Modifié par AtlasMickey, 25 mars 2012 - 09:13 .
#134
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 09:18
sistersafetypin
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I agree with almost everything but this: " I think that default Shepard probably represents a genuine 'blind-first-time-through' playthrough pretty well. We tend to discount how much influence message boards and social media play on our decision-making. For instance: how about that ending, eh?
"
My canon Shep was Paragon from the start, Social Media had nothing to do with it. And as for the ending, I purposely kept myself unspoiled... Which was probably a mistake. I feel like knowing what was coming would have eased the blow
"
My canon Shep was Paragon from the start, Social Media had nothing to do with it. And as for the ending, I purposely kept myself unspoiled... Which was probably a mistake. I feel like knowing what was coming would have eased the blow
Modifié par sistersafetypin, 25 mars 2012 - 11:13 .
#135
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 09:35
Kub666
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Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...
Kub666 wrote...
latest leak
The what now?
This thing:
http://social.biowar.../index/10560313
#136
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 10:59
Mighty_BOB_cnc
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Kub666 wrote...
Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...
Kub666 wrote...
latest leak
The what now?
This thing:
http://social.biowar.../index/10560313
That is all.
#137
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 11:04
txmn1016
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Love this. Bump. Everyone read it. I love how many smart fans BW has.
#138
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 11:12
sistersafetypin
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Kub666 wrote...
If his main problem is that Shep is not the Catalyst, then he should be happy that according to latest leak Shepard is becoming the Catalyst at the end of ME3.
Seriously!? That sounds even more stupid then the current ending! Dear God, what is happening to Bioware?
#139
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 03:52
AtlasMickey
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sistersafetypin wrote...
Kub666 wrote...
If his main problem is that Shep is not the Catalyst, then he should be happy that according to latest leak Shepard is becoming the Catalyst at the end of ME3.
Seriously!? That sounds even more stupid then the current ending! Dear God, what is happening to Bioware?
You must think it better than indoc, though, right?
