631 réponses à ce sujet

[Rockpopple]

@Steve - It didn't take the whole Galaxy to defeat Sovereign. You gotta play ME1 again, dude.

And "bonehead"? No need to get personal, brah.

[Tiax Rules All]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

ronbo_68 wrote...

Interesting point Hex23. I remember that whole conversation in arrival but it was something I just filed away but now that you mention it, it makes sense. I can also see the boy being "Harby" and talking to Shepard to try and sway him. But didn't the other reaper that they killed on Rannoch say something to Shepard also? And didn't they also kill it with conventional weapons? Albeit it was a helluva a fight.

yes "Reapers are invincable" is a misguided idea, IN THE GAME. People say it, but they are wrong. Shepard and friends prove this over and over.

They are just damn tough.

No one says they're invincible, bonehead. It takes everyone in the universe to take out a single one, and by the end, they can barely take out a single Reaper they are so weakened militarily.

bonehead? i think my caps might have sent the wrong tone, im making my point not accusing you of anything, I could have posted it without qouting you maybe...

but it did not take a "universe" to kill "one". its took Normandy and Some of the alliance fleet to kill soverighn (which was one of the biggest if not biggest reaper of all) soverighn also had the element of surprise, and was more mystical back then to pilots. alot has changed.  It took shep and the quarian fleets help to kill the destroyer on rannock which was if you ask me, quite easy really, paint and shoot from space? didnt lose anybody...

when you look at the war readyness screen to the right it verbalises your the galactic fleets chances of victory against the reapers. the highest you can get is "even".  EVEN? thats pretty damn good odds for and "Army of invincable biengs"

[ZeBlob987]

I was reading through the Collector's Edition art book, and they said how "one of the plans on the drawing board was to have the Illusive Man turn into a Reaper creature for the final battle. Eventually, this plan was scrapped, since we wanted to give players the satisfaction of fighting a character they already know than a random character"

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure a bunch of Banshees and Brutes aren't really characters "we already know", and TIM at the end is not a boss. Pretty strange how ME3 ends w/o a final boss fight, come to think of it....

definately support for post-"ending" DLC, and this is probably the most likely way it will be done, even if BioWare ends up going "that's a better idea than ours, let's use it".

Modifié par ZeBlob987, 15 mars 2012 - 04:57 .

[Tiax Rules All]

lol. its Steve, you got me for a sec by changing your avatar pic... good one, lol

now ill go back to ignoring the troll that has come back to the thread for more...

[Rockpopple]

Just a thought, if Indoc. is true and the "breathe" ending is the true ending... just how effing awesome is Cmdr Shepard?

She's been mentally and battered through the course of the ME series, but no more than she was in ME3. She comments on it several times, especially during the Paragon route. She's tired. She's beat. But she'll keep going. Never stop.

And even at the end, when she's critically wounded, surrounded by Eldritch technology that's battering her psyche from all angles, telling her to submit, to let go, trying to trick her into thinking she's already won, that the battle's over, despite bleeding out on a slab of concrete somewhere on earth, she still fights. She fights and she wins, dammit.

Shepard is an effing boss.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 15 mars 2012 - 04:59 .

[1490]

Just thought of this, maybe it's a huge stretch but I'll say it anyway:

Shepard is very much a Jesus figure: the savior of humanity, sacrificing his life to save everyone. According to Dante's model, Jesus went through hell, then purgatory, and then into heaven after he died, and good people who go to heaven follow him in this model when they die. When Shepard first enters the "Citadel," it is dark red with bodies everywhere: Hell. When he is between floors with TIM and Anderson, where he is in stalemate,he is in Purgatory. Then, he passes out and ASCENDS to a bright, open area with a child of light: Heaven. It is very symbolic and almost unrealistic in that sense. You could go on to say the Reapers are playing to Shepard's understanding about what heaven, hell, and apotheosis are, trying to appeal to his desire to be a "Savior", also evidence that the "destruction" choice is shown to have the worst effects, and is highlighted in red.

Anyway, just throwing it out there.

[Tiax Rules All]

ZeBlob987 wrote...

I was reading through the Collector's Edition art book, and they said how "one of the plans on the drawing board was to have the Illusive Man turn into a Reaper creature for the final battle. Eventually, this plan was scrapped, since we wanted to give players the satisfaction of fighting a character they already know than a random character"

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure a bunch of Banshees and Brutes aren't really characters "we already know", and TIM at the end is not a boss. Pretty strange how ME3 ends w/o a final boss fight, come to think of it....

i like what you did there. but now im going to break the mystique and spell it out...

yeah if Indoc is true TIM is not at citadel is just a projection, so hes still waiting to be met/ fought / defeated in the DLC

[DirectorStormchaser1]

kmcd5722 wrote...

I guess I can accept this theory, but I just have a couple questions... Sorry if you have already answered them.

1) So does the process of getting hit by the beam force indoctrination (which makes no sense), or are we to extrapolate that Shep lies on the ground for awhile after being hit, and Harbinger tries to indoctrinate Shep as he bleeds out/dreams?

2) I know this question has been raised, but I still haven't heard a sufficient answer. Without MP/iOS it is nearly impossible to obtain a 4000 EMS, so it would seem all these players (let it be noted, that ME1/ME2 had been built on the singleplayer experience) are screwed out of getting the "correct" ending, simply because they don't have internet access or felt they didn't really need the MP (my choice). How could this possibly be justified?

**FOR ANSWER #1**
I can answer this easily.  Since I am the only oen which ever went through a Real Life Turmoil like Shepherd did when I was in the NAVY.

When the explosion hit me.  I was out of it for awhile.  If Indoctrination did occur it would be after the incident.  I had GOD talk to me.  Yes there is in fact a GOD.  But, regardless Shepherd's state was that he would have been Indoctrinated shortly after.

For me I wound up clinical dead for 3 days. 

No one knows how much time passed by in the Indoctrination.  Was like me a couple days. 


**FOR ANSWER #2**
There are trainers available for Maximum MP.  Got to cheat sometimes.

[Tiax Rules All]

Rockpopple wrote...

Just a thought, if Indoc. is true and the "breathe" ending is the true ending... just how effing awesome is Cmdr Shepard?

She's been mentally and battered through the course of the ME series, but no more than she was in ME3. She comments on it several times, especially during the Paragon route. She's tired. She's beat. But she'll keep going. Never stop.

And even at the end, when she's critically wounded, surrounded by Eldritch technology that's battering her psyche from all angles, telling her to submit, to let go, trying to trick her into thinking she's already won, that the battle's over, despite bleeding out on a slab of concrete somewhere on earth, she still fights. She fights and she wins, dammit.

Shepard is an effing boss.

For real though. Shep IS a boss. Thats why hes a legend in the Stargazer future. Nothing in and future DLC will chage that and make Stargazer invalid.

Thats how your supposed to feel by all this ending stuff. This will all clear up in time.

Im gonna get goosebumps when Garrus and Liara (squaddies are charge scene) pick shep up out of the rubble in the begginning of the DLC..

[Tiax Rules All]

DirectorStormchaser1 wrote...

kmcd5722 wrote...

I guess I can accept this theory, but I just have a couple questions... Sorry if you have already answered them.

1) So does the process of getting hit by the beam force indoctrination (which makes no sense), or are we to extrapolate that Shep lies on the ground for awhile after being hit, and Harbinger tries to indoctrinate Shep as he bleeds out/dreams?

2) I know this question has been raised, but I still haven't heard a sufficient answer. Without MP/iOS it is nearly impossible to obtain a 4000 EMS, so it would seem all these players (let it be noted, that ME1/ME2 had been built on the singleplayer experience) are screwed out of getting the "correct" ending, simply because they don't have internet access or felt they didn't really need the MP (my choice). How could this possibly be justified?

**FOR ANSWER #1**
I can answer this easily.  Since I am the only oen which ever went through a Real Life Turmoil like Shepherd did when I was in the NAVY.

When the explosion hit me.  I was out of it for awhile.  If Indoctrination did occur it would be after the incident.  I had GOD talk to me.  Yes there is in fact a GOD.  But, regardless Shepherd's state was that he would have been Indoctrinated shortly after.

For me I wound up clinical dead for 3 days. 

No one knows how much time passed by in the Indoctrination.  Was like me a couple days. 


**FOR ANSWER #2**
There are trainers available for Maximum MP.  Got to cheat sometimes.

Thanks alot for your input on number 1 
its what i was thinking but could not claim to have and experience.

[kmcd5722]

1490 wrote...

Well it would definitely be in their best interest to continue the storyline. I mean, Mass Effect is such a huge IP, to completely end it would be a pretty foolish use of a multi-million dollar investment.  I mean, I was satisfied with the game either way.  I like tragedies (Hamlet and Othello are some of my favorite), so if the game ends the way it does now, that's cool.  If they add a new ending on via DLC, that's cool too. I'd prefer the latter though because I think ME really champions choice, and I know a lot of people are very saddened by the way it ended.

Thing is, they spent sooooo much time into crafting EVERYTHING in this universe, from vast dialogue trees to the tiniest detail in a Secondary Codex entry.  The ME universe is one of the most self-contained universes ever made, and there is simply NO WAY that BioWare/EA can just justify the ending by just taking it at face value.  Aside from plot holes, ditching of core ideals, etc., the ending as is makes NO SENSE without some sort of external theory.

I could care less if it ends in tragedy; there was just no closure to the game.  In fact, tragedy would be quite artistic.  Nothing I did mattered, and I wasn't allowed to see what really happend.  No explanation is given for what transpires, as if we are just to assume some God Space Kid is real.  I simply cannot accept it.  There has to be more.  There has to... otherwise BW/EA wasted a lot of time (not just their time, but the fans/critics, too). 

[1490]

kmcd5722 wrote...

Thing is, they spent sooooo much time into crafting EVERYTHING in this universe, from vast dialogue trees to the tiniest detail in a Secondary Codex entry.  The ME universe is one of the most self-contained universes ever made, and there is simply NO WAY that BioWare/EA can just justify the ending by just taking it at face value.  Aside from plot holes, ditching of core ideals, etc., the ending as is makes NO SENSE without some sort of external theory.

I could care less if it ends in tragedy; there was just no closure to the game.  In fact, tragedy would be quite artistic.  Nothing I did mattered, and I wasn't allowed to see what really happend.  No explanation is given for what transpires, as if we are just to assume some God Space Kid is real.  I simply cannot accept it.  There has to be more.  There has to... otherwise BW/EA wasted a lot of time (not just their time, but the fans/critics, too). 

I tried to start a thread on this, but there are just too many thread flying around right now.  While I defend "creative license" being a writer myself, I think the Mass Effect series was the wrong place to exercise that excuse.  Let's just throw out fan dissatisfaction: on Bioware's end, they have put MILLIONS of dollars into developing this absolutely massive, expansive IP.  To simply put it to a cold end wastes all that work put forth by the writers and developers that created this universe.  Plus, they could stand to make a lot more money if they left it intact.

[palacios]

I agree with most of you. The indoctrination theory just makes so much sense. Even if you don't believe it is, you can't deny the fact that the ending is far less interactive compared to ME2. No boss fight, no assigning teammates, no strategy really.. and we all know BioWare is capable of much much more than that. It's a risky move from their side to do this, but sometimes you got to take the plunge when you wanna go outside the box. So far, a lot of people were 'indoctrinated' by the 'ending' of ME3 , what greater accomplishment is that for a game where indoctrination plays a large role. I'm glad I took the destroy ending Plus, i'm sure if anything the DLC will be free.

[Tiax Rules All]

this isnt an "air out your grievances" thread either...

its a "i want to discuss the rubble/ Shep lives ending" thread

[DirectorStormchaser1]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Thanks alot for your input on number 1 
its what i was thinking but could not claim to have and experience.

Mass Effect 1 is proof writers did go to a VA and talk with Vets if you chose to be a spacer in character creation.  

Writers need to know what it is like first hand experience to even write something like PTSD, Schizophrania, or other mental illnesses. 

People will deny they have a mental illness like an alcoholic or drug addict.   Shepherd should have talked to Dr Chakwas.  

But, when an incident in real life happens your willpower is shattered.  I had a 140 IQ before incident.  After incident I had a 20 IQ.   It took me 6 years to raise my IQ over 130.  That ends the Shepherd Story.  

Shepherd would be too old to fight in this war as a hero after the encounter with Harbinger.  Would be suffering even worse due to Stockholm Syndrome. 

If Shepherd got hit by a laser.  He probably suffered brain damage, at least 8-12 slipped disks in back.  I personally have 8 slipped discs and I have 1-2 more slip every 4-6 years.  Problems in my joints with crippling arthritis.  Shepherd could never be 100% after the laser hit.  

Ashley just got shoved to the shuttle panel with full armor on.  So it would be easier for her to recover than Shepherd would.

The only thing which brought Shepherd back to life was Reaper Tech.  We ourselves even 300 years from now would never be able to bring someone back to life with zero brain functioning. 

It took over 29,000-30,000 years to be medically advanced as we are now. 

The brain is just being explored and how it works it will take another 1000-2000 years to fully comprehend how it totally works.

Brain tumors will take longer for better and effective ways to remove them.  I expect another 1000 years.

The one thing I do not believe will ever ever happen is flying cars.  We cannot even drive on the road.  A mid-air collesion in the sky would be disasterous for those on the ground. 

[Tiax Rules All]

palacios wrote...

I agree with most of you. The indoctrination theory just makes so much sense. Even if you don't believe it is, you can't deny the fact that the ending is far less interactive compared to ME2. No boss fight, no assigning teammates, no strategy really.. and we all know BioWare is capable of much much more than that. It's a risky move from their side to do this, but sometimes you got to take the plunge when you wanna go outside the box. So far, a lot of people were 'indoctrinated' by the 'ending' of ME3 , what greater accomplishment is that for a game where indoctrination plays a large role. I'm glad I took the destroy ending Plus, i'm sure if anything the DLC will be free.

yup, people whine about cookie cutter endings all the time, they ask for more out of a video game..

then a game trys something risky and those same fans got issues.

EA/Bioware knows this, they aren't worried. They have this all under control. they are poised to break records with this DLC i think.

IF we effect ANYTHING by complaining it would be them lowering thier intended price or possibly free.

[Balmung31]

Just the fact that he can live is encouraging to me. All those "The hero HAS to die, deal with it!" people can politely stick it for all I care.

[Tiax Rules All]

@DirectorStormchaser1

thanks again good read. I take all your points but i think we all know that Shepard is wearing specially designed PlotArmor.. So he will be just as hurt as the writers want him to be. no more or less.

If they want shep to keep fighting in the future DLC then they will make it so.
If they want to go ultra real and leave it as Shep takes that breath but he is still "out of the fight" then it will be so.

[Wolvy]

 

kmcd5722 wrote...

2) I know this question has been raised, but I still haven't heard a sufficient answer. Without MP/iOS it is nearly impossible to obtain a 4000 EMS, so it would seem all these players (let it be noted, that ME1/ME2 had been built on the singleplayer experience) are screwed out of getting the "correct" ending, simply because they don't have internet access or felt they didn't really need the MP (my choice). How could this possibly be justified?

Here is another thread on the general discussion forums about that. 

http://social.biowar...3/index/9665384  

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

ronbo_68 wrote...

Interesting point Hex23. I remember that whole conversation in arrival but it was something I just filed away but now that you mention it, it makes sense. I can also see the boy being "Harby" and talking to Shepard to try and sway him. But didn't the other reaper that they killed on Rannoch say something to Shepard also? And didn't they also kill it with conventional weapons? Albeit it was a helluva a fight.

yes "Reapers are invincable" is a misguided idea, IN THE GAME. People say it, but they are wrong. Shepard and friends prove this over and over.

They are just damn tough.

No one says they're invincible, bonehead. It takes everyone in the universe to take out a single one, and by the end, they can barely take out a single Reaper they are so weakened militarily.

While I understand what you are saying I believe it was mainly the Quarian fleet at Rannoch that helped with that and the Normandy?  I think it would be quite tough or close to near impossible with as many near earth as there. was. The main reason I asked was what did the reaper say to Shepard and the conventional weapon was a side bar.

Modifié par ronbo_68, 15 mars 2012 - 05:45 .

[DirectorStormchaser1]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

thanks again good read. I take all your points but i think we all know that Shepard is wearing specially designed PlotArmor.. So he will be just as hurt as the writers want him to be. no more or less.

If they want shep to keep fighting in the future DLC then they will make it so.
If they want to go ultra real and leave it as Shep takes that breath but he is still "out of the fight" then it will be so.

Writers want this to be realistic.  He would be commanding behind the lines in a DLC or Mass Effect 4.  He should not be in the frontlines.  I always have a problem with Anderson on the forntlines.  He should have been commanding in a safer location.  In Real Life, SOCOM Commanding Officer is safely tucked away in the Command Center on McDill AFB.

[Sparbiter]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

well there is one in the agree column.. I honestly would like to hear how this is NOT indoctrination theory by someone that rejects the theory. I can't find anybody that wants to touch it or can explain it differently.

Well, I would like to believe the indoctrination theory, but here's why I don't:

No sane company will troll it's fanbase with that type of ending. While a lot of these "cancelled" subscriptions are just empty threats, there are those who are actually doing it, costing Bioware money.

Some reviews are taking points off because of the ending.


That's my reasoning.

If you want a pure, storyline driven response, well, it has to be indoctrination, because the only way that ending makes any sense at all is if it's a mad fantasy delusion of a guy who just got zapped.

[shamE12]

I personally think that shepard waking up in the rubble and taking a deep first breath is likely the best visual proof that shepard is waking up from the indoctrination attempt by harbinger.

[Tiax Rules All]

DirectorStormchaser1 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

thanks again good read. I take all your points but i think we all know that Shepard is wearing specially designed PlotArmor.. So he will be just as hurt as the writers want him to be. no more or less.

If they want shep to keep fighting in the future DLC then they will make it so.
If they want to go ultra real and leave it as Shep takes that breath but he is still "out of the fight" then it will be so.

Writers want this to be realistic.  He would be commanding behind the lines in a DLC or Mass Effect 4.  He should not be in the frontlines.  I always have a problem with Anderson on the forntlines.  He should have been commanding in a safer location.  In Real Life, SOCOM Commanding Officer is safely tucked away in the Command Center on McDill AFB.

heh, interesting.
but I in no way see them taking Shep out of his role though. not at this point in the story.
or having you play as another character while shep commands. Its just too drastic and jarring. Its Shep or nothing

[DirectorStormchaser1]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

heh, interesting.
but I in no way see them taking Shep out of his role though. not at this point in the story.
or having you play as another character while shep commands. Its just too drastic and jarring. Its Shep or nothing

If Mass Affect 4 does happen.  I hope Shepherd is in it as a Reaper or giving us orders.  Since I would like to see something better than Freelancer and get Chris Roberts on the Bioware Team.  Bioware makes crappy space combat simulations.  Sorry Bioware, but your space simulators are crappola.  Hire Chris Roberts and get your space simulators made better and bring a massive rejoice to the Bioware Community. 

[Tiax Rules All]

Sparbiter wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

well there is one in the agree column.. I honestly would like to hear how this is NOT indoctrination theory by someone that rejects the theory. I can't find anybody that wants to touch it or can explain it differently.

Well, I would like to believe the indoctrination theory, but here's why I don't:

No sane company will troll it's fanbase with that type of ending. While a lot of these "cancelled" subscriptions are just empty threats, there are those who are actually doing it, costing Bioware money.

Some reviews are taking points off because of the ending.


That's my reasoning.

If you want a pure, storyline driven response, well, it has to be indoctrination, because the only way that ending makes any sense at all is if it's a mad fantasy delusion of a guy who just got zapped.

from a diff post of mine so not a direct adressing to you but..

to play devils advocate here im "Evil" EA personafied:

"so hey, we are not making you buy this dlc. ME3 base HAD an ending, this is just an extra ending for those who WANT extra. You dont have to see this super cool, awesome finale ending to the trilogy if you dont want to"

How much you want to be this will be tweeted by somebody in defence of the DLC

and they are not wrong.
balsy, dicks, evil, smart, money hogs.... irrelevant


"pre-order cancelled" didnt do a damn thing to hurt sales. It was free advertising. They just dont care about you saying that you wont buy it. because 90 percent that say they wont.. will

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 15 mars 2012 - 06:09 .