Aller au contenu

Photo

I want to discuss Rubble/ Shep Lives ending.


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
631 réponses à ce sujet

#601
Liquoid

Liquoid
  • Members
  • 133 messages

Phobius9 wrote...

I'd argue that it's highly unlikely that the entire Citadel structure is made of metal. Key structural components may be, but I'd imagine that the internal walls, such as those forming the actual buildings could be made of concrete or equivalent. Again, if that final shot was in London, I'd imagine sound of combat etc. That's not what's heard.

Tiax, I'm pretty sure that 'metal structure' you mention in the first set of pictures on this page is supposed to be part of Shepard's armour.


Troll harder. You're full of crap, in bad denial. I honestly don't see how you can claim the rubble is not made of concrete while keeping a straight face.

#602
turian_rage

turian_rage
  • Members
  • 422 messages
Sure, this idea was based on the main principal that we just want to find some logic with how stupid and illogical the endings are. But the more people dig, the more people find and the more convincing it becomes. Your messages are actually inspiring an entire legion of gamers into rethinking and re-appreciated Mass Effect 3, including myself. Keep digging, dude, you'll eventually find something irrefutable that nobody can argue against. 'Till then i'm holding the line and keeping Indoctrination as my headcanon.

#603
Auresta

Auresta
  • Members
  • 505 messages

cubie_hole7 wrote...

I like the indoctrination theory, but I may have found a problem with this part of the ending.

This is one of the original screen captures I took of the Shepard alive scene.  It's a little before the camera moves over to Shepard.

Image IPB

Here's an adjusted picture.  All I did was adjust color levels to brighten it up.

Image IPB

That clearly looks like major metal structure(s) in the background, and possibily even part of the now destroyed Citadel structure.  The concrete is still an issue.  I can't really tell if the Citadel has no concrete or not.  Sometime it looks like it does, while other times, it looks like it doesn't.

Another issue is with what is thought to be metal/steel rebar used in regular concrete construction.  Here's an example from the final scene of Shepard alive.  Again, I've adjusted color levels to brighten the picture.

Image IPB

It's on the right hand side.  I don't think that is rebar.  I think it's cables.  There are two there.  It's too big to be rebar, and it is not shaped like rebar.  Rebar has a curved spiral ridge.  What you see here are edges that do not curve in an up or down direction.  They wrap around straight, so to speak, and they are just way to wide.  Look at other rebar from the Hammer Intro scene in London for comparison with shape and size.

Rebar with a curved ridge line.  It also gives some what of a size comparison with Anderson

Image IPB

More rebar with better size comparison with a husk.  It is considerably smaller than what is beside Shepard, and counters arguments such as "maybe they use larger rebar in the future," because they clearly do not.

Image IPB

Here is a shot of Anderson about to destroy the Reapers.  Sadly, these look much more like the cables/rebar that appears in the Shepard alive scene.  It's not close enough to see the ridge lines, but the size looks like a better fit, and, if the scene is not a dream or whatever, there are clearly an adundance of them there to be thrown around in the impending explosion.

Image IPB

At first, I hoped this scene was part of the indoctrination theory - mainly because I wanted that theory to be true.  It meant there was more to the story and those last few minutes dubbed "the ending" actually made some sense.  I think the Shepard alive scene is Shepard after the explosion on the Citadel now.  I'm not happy about that for one, because I like the indoctrination theory, and, two, I'm running out of places to put all the gigantic plot holes the end of this game created.


;____;

#604
Jadebaby

Jadebaby
  • Members
  • 13 229 messages
go to youtube and type in shepards indoctrination... NOW!

#605
Silasqtx

Silasqtx
  • Members
  • 1 010 messages
Logically speaking, Shepard can't survive:

#Citadel explosion in space
#Citadel falling on Earth from space

Simply because he doesn't have neither armor or helmet. Last time it happened was on ME2 and we all know how did he look after that little crash-landing.

Best option available: Indoc. theory true. I refuse to believe it's bad writing.

#606
Phobius9

Phobius9
  • Members
  • 423 messages

Liquoid wrote...

Phobius9 wrote...

I'd argue that it's highly unlikely that the entire Citadel structure is made of metal. Key structural components may be, but I'd imagine that the internal walls, such as those forming the actual buildings could be made of concrete or equivalent. Again, if that final shot was in London, I'd imagine sound of combat etc. That's not what's heard.

Tiax, I'm pretty sure that 'metal structure' you mention in the first set of pictures on this page is supposed to be part of Shepard's armour.


Troll harder. You're full of crap, in bad denial. I honestly don't see how you can claim the rubble is not made of concrete while keeping a straight face.


Errrr, what? I never said it wasn't concrete. In fact, I'm saying it is, but that you can get concrete on the Citadel not just metal. Just because there is concrete in the final shot does not preclude it from being rubble in/from the Citadel. I'm not saying that the theory laid out in this thread is incorrect, I'm merely offering my own thoughts on the matter. If pages can be given over to detailed discussion of space-rebar I'm pretty sure I'm within my rights to argue the toss over sound effects and building materials, no?

#607
Jadebaby

Jadebaby
  • Members
  • 13 229 messages

Silasqtx wrote...

Logically speaking, Shepard can't survive:

#Citadel explosion in space
#Citadel falling on Earth from space

Simply because he doesn't have neither armor or helmet. Last time it happened was on ME2 and we all know how did he look after that little crash-landing.

Best option available: Indoc. theory true. I refuse to believe it's bad writing.



#608
Xerkysz

Xerkysz
  • Members
  • 191 messages

SirJeal wrote...

Either that, or Shepard beat their indoctrination by "destroying" them in his mind... so when he wakes up, he isn't indoctrinated.


One person gets it.

#609
GamingKoala

GamingKoala
  • Members
  • 17 messages

Rockpopple wrote...

I know this goes beyond the discussion of the rubble, but....

Look at the choices you're given by the Catalyst and how they're presented to you.

Destroy. Throughout the entire Mass Effect series, not only Shepard, but everyone he ever respected and cared about had only one solution to the Reaper threat: their utter annihilation. There was NEVER even any thought of compromise be Shepard's friends and loved ones, or Shepard himself. The ONLY time Shepard brought up the possibility of NOT destroying the Reapers, but instead controlling them, he was shot down by Hackett. Destroy the Reapers, that is your only goal. That is the PLAYER'S only goal.

But the Catalyst tells you Destroy is an awful option. It's red and scary. It'll destroy all synthetic life, like the Geth. Even you would be destroyed. And even if you do choose Destroy, there's nothing that says Synthetic life wouldn't rise again and threaten the Galaxy. It was presented almost as not an option at all.

Now look at Control. Throughout the series, The Illusive Man has been obsessed with controlling the Reapers, and Shepard had been STEADFAST in telling TIM that controlling the Reapers would ONLY lead to Indoctrination and destruction.

Now you're being told that Control is the Paragon option. That you would die, but the Reapers would be under your control. They'd stop their attacks on the Galaxy. Oh, maybe something bad would happen, somewhere down the line, but this way you could save everyone.

Finally Synthesis. Saren was the enemy who was most invested in Synthesis, and he was obsessed with it because, as he was heavily Indoctrinated, it was the only way Saren could see as saving his own soul. If Synthesis was the answer, then they could allow themselves to be taken by the Reapers. Synthesis was a REAPER idea. Shepard fought against Synthesis every step of the way. Making peace between Organics and Synthetics is NOT Synthesis. The very idea of Synthesis is the idea of the Saren, Husks, Reapers.

But on the Citadel, Synthesis is presented as the BEST option. Shepard would again PERISH, but the Galaxy would be saved. Reapers would still exist, but they'd have no reason to kill everything because everything would BE LIKE THEM. The perfect merging of organic and synthetic. Sound familiar? Sovreign said the Reapers had all of the strengths of organics and snythetics, and NONE of the weakenesses. Those exact words!

This kind of thinking fooled me. By choosing Synthesis, I thought I was doing the best thing for the Galaxy. Looking back at it, I failed utterly. The only goal should be destroying the Reapers, no matter the costs, but the Catalyst, and the game, mind-effed me into thinking otherwise. Into saving the Reapers.

Insidious.


This. Thought of Saren when presented with the synthesis option. Then TIM, obviously, represents the control option. Both are officially indoctrinated. The "ending" is kind of epic if interpreted this way- a live action of indoctrination taking place in the minds of the players...and how some players would actually choose control/ synthesis despite having gone through the entire series trying to destroy the reapers, and despite having defied the indoctrinated antagonist ie Saren and TIM. 

#610
kidbd15

kidbd15
  • Members
  • 1 142 messages

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Silasqtx wrote...

Logically speaking, Shepard can't survive:

#Citadel explosion in space
#Citadel falling on Earth from space

Simply because he doesn't have neither armor or helmet. Last time it happened was on ME2 and we all know how did he look after that little crash-landing.

Best option available: Indoc. theory true. I refuse to believe it's bad writing.



#611
Myskal1981

Myskal1981
  • Members
  • 205 messages
Just want to add one thing: If you don't "save" Anderson you need 5000 EMS to achieve this ending. Where is the correlation?
My only explanation: Anderson is the mental projection of Shepard's fight against the Reapers. By letting TIM shoot Anderson, Shepard needs more EMS "to get back". It is a long shot, but makes sense if you believe in indoc.

#612
Liquoid

Liquoid
  • Members
  • 133 messages
I believe the initial posts about indoctrination interpretation that got buried explain it best, as they not only list slight clues towards this interpretation, but talk about the significance of each NPC during the ending cutscene

#613
Keltikone

Keltikone
  • Members
  • 337 messages
There was a post here referencing Occam's razor (simplest answer usually correct, lex parsimoniae etc) pointing out that they were rapidly approaching their EA deadline and simply "put a rush job" out.

Right now, given that I've read (hopefuly) all the official Bioware tweets, released dev notes etc, it looks like this was the case. I hope they decide to improve on it but usually when the game goes gold, the team is reduced and spread around other/new projects and are probably too busy designing paid DLC now :P

#614
Zokopops

Zokopops
  • Members
  • 49 messages
IF he went up the citadel Shep will die. FACT. Either thru suffocation, explosion or impact when citadel crashes to earth (IF it crashes to earth)....so who is lying in the rubble????

THAT is the question...

#615
Sundance31us

Sundance31us
  • Members
  • 2 647 messages

cubie_hole7 wrote...
Image IPB

Has anyone been able to find the object in the background...the one between Shepard and the rebar?

#616
Priisus

Priisus
  • Members
  • 445 messages
Ok, trying to be the devil's advocate here. I don't know how many of you guys know of this very widely practiced workflow in the game industry: it's called re-using assets.

Rubble and all... Many levels of Mass Effect 3 features them and they probably just use the gazillions of rubble art assets to render this cutscene. It may be from the London level which is why it looks so freaking similar. I know you're all gonna say the Citadel's material is not like this... Yes!

But at this point, I'm more inclined to believe that this is just a "cheaper" (time and effort) method to produce this cutscene. Same with the endings plot, as compelling as the indoctrination theory is (and may I add, it is very plausible). I'm in the camp where the whole ending thing is just not thought up properly at all, basically just poor execution on the whole thing... and not because they're trying to be sneaky and hide the sunshine and rainbows from us all and released it later.

I used to believe that the Space Edition copies had a "locked" content so those who get to play them early will not leak the stories and endings and it will come out different in the retail versions. We all know now that it's not true; the current ending is what we're given and what we're stuck with unless the devs decided to change it. If they had done that to the Space Edition copies, I would say well played but the retail copy is the same and right now the sales had been hurt bad. If they had sunshine and rainbows planned, why hide it still?

Bleak truth I know and I'm still hoping that the endings will be changed. Shepard deserves better, Mass Effect deserves better.

#617
Turbotanden

Turbotanden
  • Members
  • 293 messages

Sundance31us wrote...

Has anyone been able to find the object in the background...the one between Shepard and the rebar?

Looks like a multi-story building like the ones we see at the start of the game.

#618
Tiax Rules All

Tiax Rules All
  • Members
  • 2 938 messages

Priisus wrote...

Ok, trying to be the devil's advocate here. I don't know how many of you guys know of this very widely practiced workflow in the game industry: it's called re-using assets.

Rubble and all... Many levels of Mass Effect 3 features them and they probably just use the gazillions of rubble art assets to render this cutscene. It may be from the London level which is why it looks so freaking similar. I know you're all gonna say the Citadel's material is not like this... Yes!

But at this point, I'm more inclined to believe that this is just a "cheaper" (time and effort) method to produce this cutscene. Same with the endings plot, as compelling as the indoctrination theory is (and may I add, it is very plausible). I'm in the camp where the whole ending thing is just not thought up properly at all, basically just poor execution on the whole thing... and not because they're trying to be sneaky and hide the sunshine and rainbows from us all and released it later.

I used to believe that the Space Edition copies had a "locked" content so those who get to play them early will not leak the stories and endings and it will come out different in the retail versions. We all know now that it's not true; the current ending is what we're given and what we're stuck with unless the devs decided to change it. If they had done that to the Space Edition copies, I would say well played but the retail copy is the same and right now the sales had been hurt bad. If they had sunshine and rainbows planned, why hide it still?

Bleak truth I know and I'm still hoping that the endings will be changed. Shepard deserves better, Mass Effect deserves better.


nope.. this is a cinematic rendered outside the game engine, like the earth battlefield scenes and space cinematics,,

Does not use in game engine to render like dialogs

you are wrong, someone had to design it specifically

#619
Turbotanden

Turbotanden
  • Members
  • 293 messages

Priisus wrote...

But at this point, I'm more inclined to believe that this is just a "cheaper" (time and effort) method to produce this cutscene.

They could just show us lying on the platform we were just standing on. Would've been even cheaper.

#620
UrgentArchengel

UrgentArchengel
  • Members
  • 2 392 messages
The pile of rubble is right next to the conduit, which explains structure arguments. Shep is on Earth.

#621
pharsti

pharsti
  • Members
  • 1 010 messages
There... is.... no.... indoctrination!

That was the ending! That was it! It sucks!

Its full of plotholes, its nonsensical, but why do so many keep knocking heads with something that is obviously NOT true. Stop trying to apply logic to the ending we got and trying to come up with alternatives, you choose a color, see an explosion, speculate, THATS IT.

If you speculate that this "theory" is right, then it is right, for YOU, and all you need to do now, is speculate the rest of the ending, because thats all itll be, on your imagination.

#622
Veginator

Veginator
  • Members
  • 57 messages
Interesting find.

The ending still needs changed.

#623
UrgentArchengel

UrgentArchengel
  • Members
  • 2 392 messages

pharsti wrote...

There... is.... no.... indoctrination!

That was the ending! That was it! It sucks!

Its full of plotholes, its nonsensical, but why do so many keep knocking heads with something that is obviously NOT true. Stop trying to apply logic to the ending we got and trying to come up with alternatives, you choose a color, see an explosion, speculate, THATS IT.

If you speculate that this "theory" is right, then it is right, for YOU, and all you need to do now, is speculate the rest of the ending, because thats all itll be, on your imagination.


Your opinion is that the endings are what they are, good for you.  Some of us what to think that Bioware's ME team is better than that.  Get over it.

#624
Priisus

Priisus
  • Members
  • 445 messages

Tiax Rules All wrote...

nope.. this is a cinematic rendered outside the game engine, like the earth battlefield scenes and space cinematics,,

Does not use in game engine to render like dialogs

you are wrong, someone had to design it specifically


What I'm saying is the 3D in-game assets... the pre-rendered cinematics also use the in-game assets as a base. I haven't seen this particular ending myself because I don't play MP so it is impossible for me to get it. But if it is the same kind of cinematic cutscene where the Chantry scene of DA2 then it basically uses the same model as the Chantry you see when exploring as Hawke. This is what I meant... Poor wording sorry, it's getting really late here.

I really want to believe that this is intentional... but the ending of Mass Effect 3 just seems to be poorly planned and executed for me to believe your reasoning that they put a GREAT DEAL of thought and spin to the ending (and this secret cutscene). Why let the players think of all these theories, it is much easier to show if they really meant it... why let the players go into rage and hurt their sales.

#625
bigbade

bigbade
  • Members
  • 513 messages
the reaper noises as the camera pans even though reapers should be destroyed at this point is good enough proof for me that he wakes up in London.