631 réponses à ce sujet

[The Spamming Troll]

Arppis wrote...

But the scene suggests that Shepard might have been indocrinated. But if that's true... Reapers win either way. And that's grim.

this is what im concerned about with this indoctro theory. if sheps indoctro then who cares if hes alive or dead. hes a reaper pawn now, so hes better off dead.  maybe ME4 contains a lazerous project that removes indoctro instead of recreating a human being from goo.

......oh ****, reaper goo!!!

why dont we lazerous project a reapers goo?????????

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 14 mars 2012 - 10:43 .

[Smiley556]

ronbo_68 wrote...

 Howdy all, 

I have been thinking about this for days now and watching the forums and posted a few times on the endings thread started.  The game was amazing for me and absolutely a blast to play. I am not a huge fan of the endings either but have come to grips with them. I have read both of Tiax's threads so here is my thoughts and question(s). 

I may have to play a sceond time to see everything you all are talking about but I remember the whole dream walking scene and on the citadel. I, like, others picked the synthesis because I thought that was the best answer. But after reading about the indoc theory and some of the scenes, I can see the point and if that was true, "well played BW, well played." LOL! :happy:

But the questions are this Tiax: What about the geth and most importantly to EDI. Personally I LOVED what they did to EDI and her maturing from 2 to 3. So if it was all a dream sequence or Shepard battling indoctrination, and you chose the destroy option and wake up at the end, what would happen to EDI? I am guessing it wouldn't destory her if he did choose to destroy the reapers? Does the child state that about all synthetic life dying to scare Shepard? I chose the green version because if it was me, I couldn't bring myself to kill EDI. I would have happily sacrificed myself for my crew.

And to me the whole gasping at the end to show he was alive kind of reminds me of the gasp someone would take after CPR from drowning, or a heart attack when I hear it.  I guess you could say like you see in the movies when someone dies and then is revived. that first gasp for air. lol

You chose synthesis because you couldnt bring yourself to kill EDI. You would fail horribly irl if the reapers would try to indoctrinate you. They dont play fair, they will use your sentiment against you.

I should also point out that CPR in movies is the most horribly innacurate bull**** ever in hollywood. Fact: CPR CANT REVIVE YOU. Please for the love of everything spread this word, for people seem to totally think hollywood is accurate.

Modifié par Smiley556, 14 mars 2012 - 10:45 .

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

Like I said, you have to look in my topic if you want the full explanation. Shep being awake, then seeing good ending means it's 100% not a dream. And if Shep got "indoctrinated" with the other two options, S G ending would never happen because he would never become an eternal legend, and Reapers would have killed all.

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Glad you made this thread Tiax(you saved me the trouble) I've said it on several other threads pertaining to the indoctrination theory. The footage of Shepard regaining consciousness is simply pure evidence that everything after Harbinger hits him with the beam, is either indoctrination or a dream. It's irrefutable. none of the Nay-sayers would give me their explanation for it on the other threads. They would just dodge it because there is no other explanation other than indoc/dream. I they're in denial of what there eyes see after the credits

Explain Star Gazer, not a dream, not a hallucation, being same for all choices then?

[Smiley556]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Glad you made this thread Tiax(you saved me the trouble) I've said it on several other threads pertaining to the indoctrination theory. The footage of Shepard regaining consciousness is simply pure evidence that everything after Harbinger hits him with the beam, is either indoctrination or a dream. It's irrefutable. none of the Nay-sayers would give me their explanation for it on the other threads. They would just dodge it because there is no other explanation other than indoc/dream. I they're in denial of what there eyes see after the credits

Explain Star Gazer, not a dream, not a hallucation, being same for all choices then?

Shepard is a legend regardless of choice at the ending.

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

Smiley556 wrote...

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Glad you made this thread Tiax(you saved me the trouble) I've said it on several other threads pertaining to the indoctrination theory. The footage of Shepard regaining consciousness is simply pure evidence that everything after Harbinger hits him with the beam, is either indoctrination or a dream. It's irrefutable. none of the Nay-sayers would give me their explanation for it on the other threads. They would just dodge it because there is no other explanation other than indoc/dream. I they're in denial of what there eyes see after the credits

Explain Star Gazer, not a dream, not a hallucation, being same for all choices then?

Shepard is a legend regardless of choice at the ending.

That makes zero sense. If he becomes indoc'd, he doesn't stop the Reapers, he becomes an enemy of humanity, and they continue to kill everything. So why would he be a legend? Indoc = not stopping the Reapers, there is zero disputing that.

[mupchu777]

I think people are missing the point... the whole end is a massively hallucination... reapers, mass effect relays, tech, all there... if thats truely BW ending... very well played. That being the case the actual end at the end of the credits still makes sense as it happens after it's all over and the reapers are defeated (with or without sheaperd).

[Baelyn]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Glad you made this thread Tiax(you saved me the trouble) I've said it on several other threads pertaining to the indoctrination theory. The footage of Shepard regaining consciousness is simply pure evidence that everything after Harbinger hits him with the beam, is either indoctrination or a dream. It's irrefutable. none of the Nay-sayers would give me their explanation for it on the other threads. They would just dodge it because there is no other explanation other than indoc/dream. I they're in denial of what there eyes see after the credits

Explain Star Gazer, not a dream, not a hallucation, being same for all choices then?

Ill repost this from earlier in case you didn't see it and it got lost:

I'm sorry but I found the logic failing at "Stargazer is the same no matter what, so all endings are good." We have no idea how far in the future Stargazer happens, and thus don't know if something else happened after this that made everything "ok." TIM betraying humanity and telling the Reapers about the plan to destroy them with the Citadel was obviously not good, but everything can still turn out ok due to someone elses actions.

[GreyLord]

I didn't get the little black fog around me in an ending of mine, the good ending. The only time that black fog really appeared was when talking to TIM. Furthermore, the Citadel didn't blow up in that ending...just the buildings on the Citadel. The ring itself was solid.

That leads me to think that Shep could actually be in the rubble left over on the Citadel as well...and that the destroy ending actually happened. However, at the time he was doing it he could have been fighting off indoctrination.

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

Baelyn wrote...

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Glad you made this thread Tiax(you saved me the trouble) I've said it on several other threads pertaining to the indoctrination theory. The footage of Shepard regaining consciousness is simply pure evidence that everything after Harbinger hits him with the beam, is either indoctrination or a dream. It's irrefutable. none of the Nay-sayers would give me their explanation for it on the other threads. They would just dodge it because there is no other explanation other than indoc/dream. I they're in denial of what there eyes see after the credits

Explain Star Gazer, not a dream, not a hallucation, being same for all choices then?

Ill repost this from earlier in case you didn't see it and it got lost:

I'm sorry but I found the logic failing at "Stargazer is the same no matter what, so all endings are good." We have no idea how far in the future Stargazer happens, and thus don't know if something else happened after this that made everything "ok." TIM betraying humanity and telling the Reapers about the plan to destroy them with the Citadel was obviously not good, but everything can still turn out ok due to someone elses actions.

Shep is a legend in S G, which means no matter what, he STOPPED the Reapers. End of discussion. He cannot have been indoctrinated (which happened with anything but destroy, according to the theory) and stopped the Reapers. So even if somehow, some way, humanity beat the Reapers (which is impossible if he dies, but for sake of argument) then he would have gone to the enemy. But really, he gets indoc'd, Reapers win, and kill everyone. How the heck would he become an eternal legend and hero for doing that? And TiM is an AWFUL choice - he will go down for eternity as a villain who almost killed humanity.

[Smiley556]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Glad you made this thread Tiax(you saved me the trouble) I've said it on several other threads pertaining to the indoctrination theory. The footage of Shepard regaining consciousness is simply pure evidence that everything after Harbinger hits him with the beam, is either indoctrination or a dream. It's irrefutable. none of the Nay-sayers would give me their explanation for it on the other threads. They would just dodge it because there is no other explanation other than indoc/dream. I they're in denial of what there eyes see after the credits

Explain Star Gazer, not a dream, not a hallucation, being same for all choices then?

Ill repost this from earlier in case you didn't see it and it got lost:

I'm sorry but I found the logic failing at "Stargazer is the same no matter what, so all endings are good." We have no idea how far in the future Stargazer happens, and thus don't know if something else happened after this that made everything "ok." TIM betraying humanity and telling the Reapers about the plan to destroy them with the Citadel was obviously not good, but everything can still turn out ok due to someone elses actions.

Shep is a legend in S G, which means no matter what, he STOPPED the Reapers. End of discussion. He cannot have been indoctrinated (which happened with anything but destroy, according to the theory) and stopped the Reapers. So even if somehow, some way, humanity beat the Reapers (which is impossible if he dies, but for sake of argument) then he would have gone to the enemy. But really, he gets indoc'd, Reapers win, and kill everyone. How the heck would he become an eternal legend and hero for doing that? And TiM is an AWFUL choice - he will go down for eternity as a villain who almost killed humanity.

 

Actually, I just rewatched the stargazer scene, it only implies he was telling stories about shepard, it says nothing about shepard being awsome or not. We tell stories about hitler and make movies about his life, and I'm quite sure that wasnt cos he was such a jolly good man that saved the world.

Modifié par Smiley556, 14 mars 2012 - 11:02 .

[Tiax Rules All]

viperabyss wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

your still assuming that shepard actually ever gets up to look at his surrounds with his real eyes. he got hit by the destroyer, hes down, hard, and everybody thats with him, hes dying, his brain is firing off some last happy thoughts of his victory trying to put his own thoughts at ease, and now because of his physical and mental weakened state. Indoctrination finally has a chance to controll shep and the reapers/ god child/ harbinger give it one last chance.

And how is it different that you're assuming Shepard was indoctrinated when he was blasted? There was nothing even remotely indicating that he was indoctrinated.

Why don't you remove your assumption, and try to look at this from an objective angle? There must be a starting point for you to say, "this event leads me to believe this is all just an indoctrination". What is that event?

you are onlt open to the parts of the theory that work for you. if you take all of the theory, it works, all of it. but i wont take the time to wite it all out for you since it wont change your mind. got to my indoctrination theory page and read the OP with and open mind. I didnt assume much but did make logical connections to in game stuff.

[Tiax Rules All]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Shep is a legend in S G, which means no matter what, he STOPPED the Reapers. End of discussion. He cannot have been indoctrinated (which happened with anything but destroy, according to the theory) and stopped the Reapers. So even if somehow, some way, humanity beat the Reapers (which is impossible if he dies, but for sake of argument) then he would have gone to the enemy. But really, he gets indoc'd, Reapers win, and kill everyone. How the heck would he become an eternal legend and hero for doing that? And TiM is an AWFUL choice - he will go down for eternity as a villain who almost killed humanity.

if shep died during the final charge but the galactic force he assembled still won he wouldnt be a legend?

he doesnt have to be the one the pushes the magic kill all reapers button to still be the sole driving force as to why the galaxy beat the reapers. There is no specifics at all in stargazer o disprove indoc theory.

live, die, indoc or no, Shep is already a legend before the charge

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 14 mars 2012 - 11:04 .

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

Smiley556 wrote...

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Glad you made this thread Tiax(you saved me the trouble) I've said it on several other threads pertaining to the indoctrination theory. The footage of Shepard regaining consciousness is simply pure evidence that everything after Harbinger hits him with the beam, is either indoctrination or a dream. It's irrefutable. none of the Nay-sayers would give me their explanation for it on the other threads. They would just dodge it because there is no other explanation other than indoc/dream. I they're in denial of what there eyes see after the credits

Explain Star Gazer, not a dream, not a hallucation, being same for all choices then?

Shepard is a legend regardless of choice at the ending.

That makes zero sense. If he becomes indoc'd, he doesn't stop the Reapers, he becomes an enemy of humanity, and they continue to kill everything. So why would he be a legend? Indoc = not stopping the Reapers, there is zero disputing that.

Actually, I just rewatched the stargazer scene, it only implies he was telling stories about shepard, it says nothing about shepard being awsome or not. We tell stories about hitler and make movies about his life, and I'm quite sure that wasnt cos he was such a jolly good man that saved the world.

Holy. Crap. You are reaching so far here. It is obvious they are talking about the events of ME3/the series of ME. Why would the kid ask about "The Shepard" if a. the story didn't revolve around him, and b. if he wasn't a hero?

Do you think kids in a hundred years are going to be like "Hey mom, tell me more about The Hitler!" Come on man.

[Tiax Rules All]

Shepard is a legend before the final charge ever takes place. he can only get more legendary from there.

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Shep is a legend in S G, which means no matter what, he STOPPED the Reapers. End of discussion. He cannot have been indoctrinated (which happened with anything but destroy, according to the theory) and stopped the Reapers. So even if somehow, some way, humanity beat the Reapers (which is impossible if he dies, but for sake of argument) then he would have gone to the enemy. But really, he gets indoc'd, Reapers win, and kill everyone. How the heck would he become an eternal legend and hero for doing that? And TiM is an AWFUL choice - he will go down for eternity as a villain who almost killed humanity.

if shep died during the final charge but the galactic force he assembled still won he wouldnt be a legend?

he doesnt have to be the one the pushes the magic kill all reapers button to still be the sole driving force as to why the galaxy beat the reapers. There is no specifics at all in stargazer o disprove indoc theory.

live, die, indoc or no, Shep is already a legend before the charge

Sure, "The Shepard" is immortalized for all eternity because he failed. The kid wants to hear more about the guy who chose to be indoctrinated and sided with the enemy.

Did you see the same ending I did? If Shep fails/gets indoctrinated, there is no winning. The Reapers kill everyone because they retreat. If he doesn't end them there, how do they get stopped? They don't.

[TarielMaeda]

I'm firmly in the camp that OP's statements are true. However, I'm also in the camp in saying there's more to the Ending that Bioware isn't telling us. I'm willing to bet there is so much more behind the curtain than just "he's really alive".

[Smiley556]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...


Holy. Crap. You are reaching so far here. It is obvious they are talking about the events of ME3/the series of ME. Why would the kid ask about "The Shepard" if a. the story didn't revolve around him, and b. if he wasn't a hero?

Do you think kids in a hundred years are going to be like "Hey mom, tell me more about The Hitler!" Come on man.

 

This is your quote:

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote... 
Shep is a legend in S G, which means no matter what, he STOPPED the Reapers. End of discussion. He cannot have been indoctrinated (which happened with anything but destroy, according to the theory) and stopped the Reapers.

 

I'm saying you are making a huge asumption that shepard is a legend that saved the universe in the stargazer scene and stating it as fact. This is simply not true. It is never said, please watch the scene again.

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Shepard is a legend before the final charge ever takes place. he can only get more legendary from there.

LOL dude. You are abandoning all logic to maintain your theory.

So, would we revere FDR if before the end of the war he decided to join the enemy and turn against humanity, and someone else had to kill the Germans/Japanese. Would we tell stories about "The Eisenhower" if he gave the Japanese an atomic bomb? Give me a break dude. Your indoctrination theory means that indoc'd or no, he's a hero, the main hero, and saved the universe, which is impossible if he is indoc'd.

If there were only the destroy ending, Indoc makes sense.

If there were only all three endings with no S G, Indoc. makes sense.

All 3 with S G means Indoc. = impossible.

[Smiley556]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Shep is a legend in S G, which means no matter what, he STOPPED the Reapers. End of discussion. He cannot have been indoctrinated (which happened with anything but destroy, according to the theory) and stopped the Reapers. So even if somehow, some way, humanity beat the Reapers (which is impossible if he dies, but for sake of argument) then he would have gone to the enemy. But really, he gets indoc'd, Reapers win, and kill everyone. How the heck would he become an eternal legend and hero for doing that? And TiM is an AWFUL choice - he will go down for eternity as a villain who almost killed humanity.

if shep died during the final charge but the galactic force he assembled still won he wouldnt be a legend?

he doesnt have to be the one the pushes the magic kill all reapers button to still be the sole driving force as to why the galaxy beat the reapers. There is no specifics at all in stargazer o disprove indoc theory.

live, die, indoc or no, Shep is already a legend before the charge

Sure, "The Shepard" is immortalized for all eternity because he failed. The kid wants to hear more about the guy who chose to be indoctrinated and sided with the enemy.

Did you see the same ending I did? If Shep fails/gets indoctrinated, there is no winning. The Reapers kill everyone because they retreat. If he doesn't end them there, how do they get stopped? They don't.

Kids are curious. I dont know about your childhood but I spend my entire childhood asking why and tell me more. The stargazer kid does the same, I see nothing wierd with that, wether shepard saved the galaxy or not.

[Tiax Rules All]

this post got f-ed start over...

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 14 mars 2012 - 11:12 .

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

Smiley556 wrote...

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...


Holy. Crap. You are reaching so far here. It is obvious they are talking about the events of ME3/the series of ME. Why would the kid ask about "The Shepard" if a. the story didn't revolve around him, and b. if he wasn't a hero?

Do you think kids in a hundred years are going to be like "Hey mom, tell me more about The Hitler!" Come on man.

 

This is your quote:

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote... 
Shep is a legend in S G, which means no matter what, he STOPPED the Reapers. End of discussion. He cannot have been indoctrinated (which happened with anything but destroy, according to the theory) and stopped the Reapers.

 

I'm saying you are making a huge asumption that shepard is a legend that saved the universe in the stargazer scene and stating it as fact. This is simply not true. It is never said, please watch the scene again.

So, after telling the story of how humanity is saved, a kid would want to know its main pariah? The main villain. No dude, it's obvious Shepard is being talked about as the hero. Like I told the OP, if you say otherwise you are just abandoning logic to support your theory, because with all the endings together Indoc. doesn't hold up.

IF Indoc. is true, S G happens villain or not. And that is not how you speak of a Villain in S G.

[Apathy1989]

Rulycar wrote...

Problem:
... BioWare promised you do not have to play MP to get best ending.
... 4000 EMS requires MP.
... Most would agree, Shepard living must be best ending.
... Would BioWare lie? (err ... logic error detected)

Pretty sure I got 5000 EMS without MP, just play perfectly.

Edit: Nvm im talking out of my ass. I can get full green bar without MP, but full green is only 3000.

Modifié par Apathy1989, 14 mars 2012 - 11:27 .

[Tiax Rules All]

no, im sorry but you ARE wrong, please let me explain.   If you see stargazer, then the galaxy wins. not necessarily shepard. but through shepards actions he does what no man could ever do. unite the galaxy to beat the reaapers and lead the charge. shep doesnt need to live to be a hero and legendary and at that point you have already assembled the force that will beat the reapers, so dying only makes you a martyr. but you are still a legend.

stargazer never says shep pushed the kill reapers button. not even close. but the story of the galaxy beating the reapers IS shepards story get it?

[Smiley556]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Shepard is a legend before the final charge ever takes place. he can only get more legendary from there.

LOL dude. You are abandoning all logic to maintain your theory.

So, would we revere FDR if before the end of the war he decided to join the enemy and turn against humanity, and someone else had to kill the Germans/Japanese. Would we tell stories about "The Eisenhower" if he gave the Japanese an atomic bomb? Give me a break dude. Your indoctrination theory means that indoc'd or no, he's a hero, the main hero, and saved the universe, which is impossible if he is indoc'd.

If there were only the destroy ending, Indoc makes sense.

If there were only all three endings with no S G, Indoc. makes sense.

All 3 with S G means Indoc. = impossible.

Holy bat****, "Revere"?! I dont know what stargazer cinematic you saw but I dont see anybody revering shepard. Stop making stuff up.