631 réponses à ce sujet

[Zyrious]

viperabyss wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...


thats assuming anderson was even supposed to be on the charge at all. hes an admiral for god sakes. hes in the back commanding with hackett. not charging like a grunt. he would NEVER be there. he is too valuable. SHEP is the soldier thats why he is sent.

Shep imagines anderson as a friendly influence and the voice of reason in his hallucination

How about we stop with the speculation for a bit?

Anderson charging was odd, yes, but he was also the commander for the Hammer team, which is a fact. Therefore he was part of the charge.

 

Scroll to 49:40. Everyone who sat in that APC charged, including Anderson. He even had a Carnifex pistol in his hand.


Again, no real, solid evidence that Shepard dreamed Anderson up. 

Anderson had been LEADING the charge for the ground forces since the moment shepard left, he detailed his journeys of personally evading and attacking reapers himself with others.

I dont know why people think it was odd for him to charge, it was an all or nothing moment. Open the citadel arms or everyone dies. Pretty simple.

[Tiax Rules All]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

So you people are saying A) there's only 1 right choice at the end, otherwise it's "MISSION CRITICAL FAILURE". That Stargazer is a bloody liar! A liar! C) Shepard is completely unnecessary since even with low EMS like just a couple tugboats and a turian mercenary apparently the Stargazer lives when Shepard gets indoctrinated.

Or, the endings as is are true, just suck, and shepard defeats/pacifies the reapers, and the stargazer is a descendant of some human colony. Hmmm...which is more likely...hmmm

1. Kinda like how there's a mission critical failure at the end of ME2 if your Shep dies- you can't import that save.

We've already established that Starchild is a liar.
He said that we'd die in the red ending, and we don't. Why should we trust anything else he says?

As for the old man- Stargazer is one messed up grandpa. "Grandpa tell me more about the time that the asari used biotic fields while she and Shepard had sex. I liked that part."

Anyway, who knows when that scene comes around? We haven't finished the story yet. It's an objection, but not nearly as big as the massive plot holes that litter the current ending.

You guys keep digging yourselves deeper. It's friggen hilarious. IF that was Indoc., then no action was taken, therefore Starchild isn't a liar, because he never destroys anything, it's all a war for his mind. So, how could it be a dream if he actually destroys them?

 
he dreams of detroying them *facepalm    look i dont mind debating this but you dont understand indoctrination theory fully so you are argueing with false info.

this is shep dreaming up happy endings for the universe and his friends while he is dying in that rubble pile.

this is what the character wants it his brain putting him at ease...

then he wakes up....

[Rafe34]

I Want My Happy Ending wrote...

Rulycar wrote...

Problem:
... BioWare promised you do not have to play MP to get best ending.
... 4000 EMS requires MP.
... Most would agree, Shepard living must be best ending.
... Would BioWare lie? (err ... logic error detected)

I got over 5 without multiplayer and nearly 8 with so no sorry

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

Rafe34 wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

So you people are saying A) there's only 1 right choice at the end, otherwise it's "MISSION CRITICAL FAILURE". That Stargazer is a bloody liar! A liar! C) Shepard is completely unnecessary since even with low EMS like just a couple tugboats and a turian mercenary apparently the Stargazer lives when Shepard gets indoctrinated.

Or, the endings as is are true, just suck, and shepard defeats/pacifies the reapers, and the stargazer is a descendant of some human colony. Hmmm...which is more likely...hmmm

1. Kinda like how there's a mission critical failure at the end of ME2 if your Shep dies- you can't import that save.

We've already established that Starchild is a liar.
He said that we'd die in the red ending, and we don't. Why should we trust anything else he says?

As for the old man- Stargazer is one messed up grandpa. "Grandpa tell me more about the time that the asari used biotic fields while she and Shepard had sex. I liked that part."

Anyway, who knows when that scene comes around? We haven't finished the story yet. It's an objection, but not nearly as big as the massive plot holes that litter the current ending.

What I will agree on:

Shepard stops the Reapers or makes them go away. S G happens, Shep is not a villain, he has not been indoctrinated. You are right, last we see is Shep. waking up. We don't know for sure if it is after the Citadel or what happened, that is speculation. I really hope they don't cave and give a new ending, though.

[Wolvy]

Smiley556 wrote...

JackofStaves wrote...

One point here.  While CPR isn't nearly as effective as portrayed, it can, and does save lives every day.  I've been in healthcare for more than twenty years, and half of that was as a field medic for the Army.  Don't do CPR and people die.  Do CPR and they at least have a chance, albeit a small one.

Sorry, it's a soapbox thing for me....

You do not have to educate me on CPR. I have been an army medic for over 7 years now. CPR saves lives, yes, CPR doesnt revive people, especially not the way it is portrayed in hollywood movies. But I think this is pretty far beyond offtopic

LOL! I got the feeling CPR was a sensitive issue for you and this explains it all Smiley. :happy:  I can see why now. And I applaud you both for the job you did and do. My Air Force job was not that spectacular. But that is another story for us all together.  

On topic, I didn't understand why Shepard was not using a helmet on the citadel either. But when the citadel was in it's normal place and position people didn't need helmets either? Dammit I am gonna have tomplay it again and see the destroy for myself now. So if the destroy was part of the dream then the child was scaring shepard by saying he would kill the geth and EDI or anything synthetic, including himself? I guess I am looking at this the wrong way around cuz I keep seeing that Shepard would sacrifice all synthetics and the unity with the geth and Quarians to destroy the reapers. lol:) That was why I thought of it as the rene choice. 

Modifié par ronbo_68, 14 mars 2012 - 11:37 .

[Chrisimo]

Zyrious wrote...

Alran wrote...

The only qualm I have about this theory, is if the indoctrination is ONLY at the last part, during the assault on earth after shep is knocked out, then the Indoctrination theory is possible.

Some people have said that he was being slowly indoctrinated over time. The 'hum' that James comments on while aboard the Normandy and Shepards dreams are a few examples.

The only point of I have to make about Shepard being indoctrinated over time through the game: on thessia, when Shepard came into contact with the Prothean VI, it doesnt detect him as being under the influence of indoctrination. But it does detect Kai as being affected.

This as well, at no point does the VI detect Shepard as being influenced by indoctrination, including on the cerberus base after you beat Kai leng, it detects that indoctrinated forces have been eliminated and grants you access to its files once more.

Indoctrination only affects Shepard when he is "weak" (asleep/unconscious).

[Smiley556]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

Can someone point me to the video where the stargazers talk about shepard being a legend and or saving the universe? The only video I see is where the star gazers talk about shepard but what they think of him and what he did is never adressed.

Can someone point me in the direction where you said the story wasn't about Shepard, and they didn't mention him, like a complete ninny, and then ignored where I showed you they did. Indoc didn't happen. Sue Bioware for not ending how you wanted.

I never said the story wasnt about shepard 
But there is no story actually told in the cutscene. It shows 2 people that were talking about shepard, but what they said isnt in the cutscene. Thats why I'm saying, please show me the version you saw where they say shepard is a legend and that they revere him (these were your words). Ofcourse its a possibility but thats just pure speculation, you cant state that as fact as you did.

For reference, this is the one I saw:
 

[Rafe34]

Zyrious wrote...

viperabyss wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...


thats assuming anderson was even supposed to be on the charge at all. hes an admiral for god sakes. hes in the back commanding with hackett. not charging like a grunt. he would NEVER be there. he is too valuable. SHEP is the soldier thats why he is sent.

Shep imagines anderson as a friendly influence and the voice of reason in his hallucination

How about we stop with the speculation for a bit?

Anderson charging was odd, yes, but he was also the commander for the Hammer team, which is a fact. Therefore he was part of the charge.

 

Scroll to 49:40. Everyone who sat in that APC charged, including Anderson. He even had a Carnifex pistol in his hand.


Again, no real, solid evidence that Shepard dreamed Anderson up. 

Anderson had been LEADING the charge for the ground forces since the moment shepard left, he detailed his journeys of personally evading and attacking reapers himself with others.

I dont know why people think it was odd for him to charge, it was an all or nothing moment. Open the citadel arms or everyone dies. Pretty simple.

I'll agree its not odd for him to leading the charge. It is odd for Shepard, Anderson, and TIM to somehow get into the Reaper base without the Alliance forces seeing them- they think everyone went down in the charge.

[hex23]

No matter how you look at it the Star Gazer scene makes no sense. How far in the future would it have to be, for humans to not be sure if there's life on other planets, AGAIN?

I mean....humans spent the last 200ish years flying around the galaxy, socializing with aliens....it's not as if this kind of thing would escape history books, even thousands of years in the future.

So that scene is a wild card. It makes no sense regardless of whether or not you take the end at face value.

Lastly the old man isn't really specific about what Shepard did. He even goes as far as to say "the details were lost because it was so long ago".

[Rafe34]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

So you people are saying A) there's only 1 right choice at the end, otherwise it's "MISSION CRITICAL FAILURE". That Stargazer is a bloody liar! A liar! C) Shepard is completely unnecessary since even with low EMS like just a couple tugboats and a turian mercenary apparently the Stargazer lives when Shepard gets indoctrinated.

Or, the endings as is are true, just suck, and shepard defeats/pacifies the reapers, and the stargazer is a descendant of some human colony. Hmmm...which is more likely...hmmm

1. Kinda like how there's a mission critical failure at the end of ME2 if your Shep dies- you can't import that save.

We've already established that Starchild is a liar.
He said that we'd die in the red ending, and we don't. Why should we trust anything else he says?

As for the old man- Stargazer is one messed up grandpa. "Grandpa tell me more about the time that the asari used biotic fields while she and Shepard had sex. I liked that part."

Anyway, who knows when that scene comes around? We haven't finished the story yet. It's an objection, but not nearly as big as the massive plot holes that litter the current ending.

What I will agree on:

Shepard stops the Reapers or makes them go away. S G happens, Shep is not a villain, he has not been indoctrinated. You are right, last we see is Shep. waking up. We don't know for sure if it is after the Citadel or what happened, that is speculation. I really hope they don't cave and give a new ending, though.

Why? Just because you like seeing 90% of the not being satisfied with the current endings?

Why do you care if they give us an option to have a different ending?

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

So you people are saying A) there's only 1 right choice at the end, otherwise it's "MISSION CRITICAL FAILURE". That Stargazer is a bloody liar! A liar! C) Shepard is completely unnecessary since even with low EMS like just a couple tugboats and a turian mercenary apparently the Stargazer lives when Shepard gets indoctrinated.

Or, the endings as is are true, just suck, and shepard defeats/pacifies the reapers, and the stargazer is a descendant of some human colony. Hmmm...which is more likely...hmmm

1. Kinda like how there's a mission critical failure at the end of ME2 if your Shep dies- you can't import that save.

We've already established that Starchild is a liar.
He said that we'd die in the red ending, and we don't. Why should we trust anything else he says?

As for the old man- Stargazer is one messed up grandpa. "Grandpa tell me more about the time that the asari used biotic fields while she and Shepard had sex. I liked that part."

Anyway, who knows when that scene comes around? We haven't finished the story yet. It's an objection, but not nearly as big as the massive plot holes that litter the current ending.

You guys keep digging yourselves deeper. It's friggen hilarious. IF that was Indoc., then no action was taken, therefore Starchild isn't a liar, because he never destroys anything, it's all a war for his mind. So, how could it be a dream if he actually destroys them?

 
he dreams of detroying them *facepalm    look i dont mind debating this but you dont understand indoctrination theory fully so you are argueing with false info.

this is shep dreaming up happy endings for the universe and his friends while he is dying in that rubble pile.

this is what the character wants it his brain putting him at ease...

then he wakes up....

Indoc. theory holds that the Citadel was not real. You guys then say Starchild is a liar.

I was addressing this:

"He said that we'd die in the red ending, and we don't. "

If Indoc. is true, we have NO IDEA if Shep. dies in the red ending, because we never get to see it. Game ends with Shep waking up after fighting off Indoc.

[turian_rage]

Do you know how big of sigh of relief we would take if that entire end sequence really was just a dream? Shepard emerging from the rubble knowing full well how craptastic things would be if he had indeed talked to that star child, that thing that has been haunting his dreams. That would instantly turn this into the greatest gaming moment in history. Till then, we get what we get :/

[Tiax Rules All]

so major Coates stays back at charge but Admiral anderson runs with the grunts....

no.

this is an assumption but an assumption based on the fact that we never see anderson run and well common sense, plus indoc theory.

the opposite of him charging, beating shep to it, and nobody seeing him is much much harder to believe. all eyes were on the charge with the hopes of the galaxy. Nobody saw shep and anderson go in

come on.

[Zyrious]

Rafe34 wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

viperabyss wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...


thats assuming anderson was even supposed to be on the charge at all. hes an admiral for god sakes. hes in the back commanding with hackett. not charging like a grunt. he would NEVER be there. he is too valuable. SHEP is the soldier thats why he is sent.

Shep imagines anderson as a friendly influence and the voice of reason in his hallucination

How about we stop with the speculation for a bit?

Anderson charging was odd, yes, but he was also the commander for the Hammer team, which is a fact. Therefore he was part of the charge.

 

Scroll to 49:40. Everyone who sat in that APC charged, including Anderson. He even had a Carnifex pistol in his hand.


Again, no real, solid evidence that Shepard dreamed Anderson up. 

Anderson had been LEADING the charge for the ground forces since the moment shepard left, he detailed his journeys of personally evading and attacking reapers himself with others.

I dont know why people think it was odd for him to charge, it was an all or nothing moment. Open the citadel arms or everyone dies. Pretty simple.

I'll agree its not odd for him to leading the charge. It is odd for Shepard, Anderson, and TIM to somehow get into the Reaper base without the Alliance forces seeing them- they think everyone went down in the charge.

I think you need to play again, TIM was already on the citadel before the attack on Earth, you are told as much by the prothean VI. He left to the citadel and told the reapers about the crucible. TIM was already there waiting, being deluded into thinking he could control the reapers when you hooked up the crucible.

The "They're all down" comment was when you were still on the ground bleeding, atleast it was in my playthrough, they said nothing after i got back up. They probably saw about 100 people vaporized and a bunch of half dead people crawling around or limping around getting mopped up by reaper ground forces. It's understandable you'd miss 2 dots limping their way into the beam.

Tiax Rules All wrote...

so major Coates stays back at charge but Admiral anderson runs with the grunts....

no.

this is an assumption but an assumption based on the fact that we never see anderson run and well common sense, plus indoc theory.

the opposite of him charging, beating shep to it, and nobody seeing him is much much harder to believe. all eyes were on the charge with the hopes of the galaxy. Nobody saw shep and anderson go in

come on.

Anderson didn't beat shepard, he came in after you did, it just sent him to an alternate entryway, likely set up that way to disperse the bodies of humans equally.

Modifié par Zyrious, 14 mars 2012 - 11:41 .

[Smiley556]

ronbo_68 wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

JackofStaves wrote...

One point here.  While CPR isn't nearly as effective as portrayed, it can, and does save lives every day.  I've been in healthcare for more than twenty years, and half of that was as a field medic for the Army.  Don't do CPR and people die.  Do CPR and they at least have a chance, albeit a small one.

Sorry, it's a soapbox thing for me....

You do not have to educate me on CPR. I have been an army medic for over 7 years now. CPR saves lives, yes, CPR doesnt revive people, especially not the way it is portrayed in hollywood movies. But I think this is pretty far beyond offtopic

LOL! I got the feeling CPR was a sensitive issue for you and this explains it all Smiley. :happy:  I can see why now. And I applaud you both for the job you did and do. My Air Force job was not that spectacular. But that is another story for us all together.  

On topic, I didn't understand why Shepard was not using a helmet on the citadel either. But when the citadel was in it's normal place and position people didn't need helmets either? Dammit I am gonna have tomplay it again and see the destroy for myself now. So if the destroy was part of the dream then the child was scaring shepard by saying he would kill the geth and EDI or anything synthetic, including himself? I guess I am looking at this the wrong way around cuz I keep seeing that Shepard would sacrifice all synthetics and the unity with the geth and Quarians to destroy the reapers. lol:) That was why I thought of it as the rene choice. 

Saving human lives is always a sensitive subject, I just want to help clear the myths around CPR and hollywood is NOT helping lol.

About the breathing on the citadel. The codex states citadel keep a breathable atmosphere through the use of mass effect fields. This is why I never bring that part up as evidence for the indoctrination theory, as it is very well possible shepard was indeed able to breath there without a helmet.

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

Smiley556 wrote...

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

Can someone point me to the video where the stargazers talk about shepard being a legend and or saving the universe? The only video I see is where the star gazers talk about shepard but what they think of him and what he did is never adressed.

Can someone point me in the direction where you said the story wasn't about Shepard, and they didn't mention him, like a complete ninny, and then ignored where I showed you they did. Indoc didn't happen. Sue Bioware for not ending how you wanted.

I never said the story wasnt about shepard 
But there is no story actually told in the cutscene. It shows 2 people that were talking about shepard, but what they said isnt in the cutscene. Thats why I'm saying, please show me the version you saw where they say shepard is a legend and that they revere him (these were your words). Ofcourse its a possibility but thats just pure speculation, you cant state that as fact as you did.

For reference, this is the one I saw:
 

"What the... Really, watch the video again, right now. 
 
"They DONT speak about shepard. At all. So how you can make any statements about how he speaks of shepard is beyond me."

So you've gone from he could be a villain and they'd talk about him, to they don't talk about him, to they talk about him and even if he went evil they'd still focus all stories for future generations around him? k.

[Tiax Rules All]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

So you people are saying A) there's only 1 right choice at the end, otherwise it's "MISSION CRITICAL FAILURE". That Stargazer is a bloody liar! A liar! C) Shepard is completely unnecessary since even with low EMS like just a couple tugboats and a turian mercenary apparently the Stargazer lives when Shepard gets indoctrinated.

Or, the endings as is are true, just suck, and shepard defeats/pacifies the reapers, and the stargazer is a descendant of some human colony. Hmmm...which is more likely...hmmm

1. Kinda like how there's a mission critical failure at the end of ME2 if your Shep dies- you can't import that save.

We've already established that Starchild is a liar.
He said that we'd die in the red ending, and we don't. Why should we trust anything else he says?

As for the old man- Stargazer is one messed up grandpa. "Grandpa tell me more about the time that the asari used biotic fields while she and Shepard had sex. I liked that part."

Anyway, who knows when that scene comes around? We haven't finished the story yet. It's an objection, but not nearly as big as the massive plot holes that litter the current ending.

You guys keep digging yourselves deeper. It's friggen hilarious. IF that was Indoc., then no action was taken, therefore Starchild isn't a liar, because he never destroys anything, it's all a war for his mind. So, how could it be a dream if he actually destroys them?

 
he dreams of detroying them *facepalm    look i dont mind debating this but you dont understand indoctrination theory fully so you are argueing with false info.

this is shep dreaming up happy endings for the universe and his friends while he is dying in that rubble pile.

this is what the character wants it his brain putting him at ease...

then he wakes up....

Indoc. theory holds that the Citadel was not real. You guys then say Starchild is a liar.

I was addressing this:

"He said that we'd die in the red ending, and we don't. "

If Indoc. is true, we have NO IDEA if Shep. dies in the red ending, because we never get to see it. Game ends with Shep waking up after fighting off Indoc.

starchild is in his head too, what arent you getting...

everything that happens between destroyer blast and wake up breath is hallucination. thereforr none of it is real. none of it needs to make sense

god childs choices appear to be leading to the reaper effect but in reality those choices represent letting indoc take hold of you or resisting it and waking up.

[stevesyanks17hotmail.com]

Rafe34 wrote...

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

So you people are saying A) there's only 1 right choice at the end, otherwise it's "MISSION CRITICAL FAILURE". That Stargazer is a bloody liar! A liar! C) Shepard is completely unnecessary since even with low EMS like just a couple tugboats and a turian mercenary apparently the Stargazer lives when Shepard gets indoctrinated.

Or, the endings as is are true, just suck, and shepard defeats/pacifies the reapers, and the stargazer is a descendant of some human colony. Hmmm...which is more likely...hmmm

1. Kinda like how there's a mission critical failure at the end of ME2 if your Shep dies- you can't import that save.

We've already established that Starchild is a liar.
He said that we'd die in the red ending, and we don't. Why should we trust anything else he says?

As for the old man- Stargazer is one messed up grandpa. "Grandpa tell me more about the time that the asari used biotic fields while she and Shepard had sex. I liked that part."

Anyway, who knows when that scene comes around? We haven't finished the story yet. It's an objection, but not nearly as big as the massive plot holes that litter the current ending.

What I will agree on:

Shepard stops the Reapers or makes them go away. S G happens, Shep is not a villain, he has not been indoctrinated. You are right, last we see is Shep. waking up. We don't know for sure if it is after the Citadel or what happened, that is speculation. I really hope they don't cave and give a new ending, though.

Why? Just because you like seeing 90% of the not being satisfied with the current endings?

Why do you care if they give us an option to have a different ending?

Name me the last popular thing that ended and was liked? The Wire, Sopranos, Lost, etc., etc. People try and create their own realities when they don't agree with how things ended. That's silly to me. I don't want another ending unless it's:

a. Free
b. Does not conflict with the current ending in any way shape or form

No way one, let alone  both of those happen if a new ending is made.

[Nobrandminda]

magicalpoop wrote...

There is no definitive answer, they left the ending intentionally open to interpretation on some levels

Straight from the game director

I didn’t want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people debating what the endings mean and what’s going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in. That to me is part of what’s exciting about this story. There has always been a little bit of mystery there and a little bit of interpretation, and it’s a story that people can talk about after the fact.

SOURCE: MSNBC http://www.ingame.ms...s-ending-442217

I can respect leaving some things open to interpretation, but this is too much.

We shouldn't be asking questions like:

-To what degree are the Quarians screwed?
-How is the Galactic Armada going to eat?
-Where is the Normandy?
-Why did the Normandy ground team leave earth?
-Who lived and who died in that battle?

The worst part is that you have to make a lot of assumptions to get to a point where the ending isn't just depressing.  Like assuming that:

-The citadel didn't crash to earth in an Endor Holocaust.
-The Mass Relays didn't go supernova like in Arrival.
-The Galactic Armada wasn't severly damaged by the crusible like the Normandy was.
-The GA brough enough supplies with them to take a conventional trip back home.
-If they didn't, Earth can support that many aliens living in the Sol system.

And then there are other little questions that are clearly the result of poor storytelling and not part of some plan to get us to talk about the ending:

-How did Anderson get to the Crusible controls without us seeing him?
-What's TIM doing there?
-When did the the Normandy ground team leave earth?
-Synthetics vs Organics?  Really?

[Tiax Rules All]

Bioware did such a good job trying to trick the player at the end with thier real time indoctrination process that people cant even believe it wasn't real. even though they purposefully fill the whole sequence with some many odd things and plot holes to jar you out of believeing it.

dont take it the wrong way but.. you are indoctrinated.

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 14 mars 2012 - 11:47 .

[Smiley556]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

"What the... Really, watch the video again, right now. 
 
"They DONT speak about shepard. At all. So how you can make any statements about how he speaks of shepard is beyond me."

So you've gone from he could be a villain and they'd talk about him, to they don't talk about him, to they talk about him and even if he went evil they'd still focus all stories for future generations around him? k.

They dont speak about shepard in the course of the cutscene no. They were speaking about him before the cutscene, and after, but in the cutscene the only thing we hear them say is the fact that they were speaking about shepard, and something about traveling to the stars one day, and then asking for another story about shepard and before the man actually starts this story about shepard, it cuts out again. So no, they dont talk ABOUT shepard in this cutscene, so there is no way of knowing what they were saying about shepard and how they feel about him.

[Zyrious]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Bioware did such a good job trying to trick the player at the end with thier real time indoctrination process that people cant even believe it want real. even though they purposefully fill the whole sequence with some many odd things and plot holes.

dont take it the wrong way but.. you are indoctrinated.

Bioware: yessss....yeeeesss...those weren't plotholes...it was all...a side effect..of indoctrination...obviously...i dont see why people dont see that.

Fans: What about the plotholes before that?

Bioware:...uh..*reads forums* they have it right...the effects of it slowly taking over you...infact, that's the reason for every plothole since ME1...ever since you hit the beacon on eden prime you're slowly being indoctrinated with plot holes...i mean oddities in your surroundings.

[Rafe34]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

So you people are saying A) there's only 1 right choice at the end, otherwise it's "MISSION CRITICAL FAILURE". That Stargazer is a bloody liar! A liar! C) Shepard is completely unnecessary since even with low EMS like just a couple tugboats and a turian mercenary apparently the Stargazer lives when Shepard gets indoctrinated.

Or, the endings as is are true, just suck, and shepard defeats/pacifies the reapers, and the stargazer is a descendant of some human colony. Hmmm...which is more likely...hmmm

1. Kinda like how there's a mission critical failure at the end of ME2 if your Shep dies- you can't import that save.

We've already established that Starchild is a liar.
He said that we'd die in the red ending, and we don't. Why should we trust anything else he says?

As for the old man- Stargazer is one messed up grandpa. "Grandpa tell me more about the time that the asari used biotic fields while she and Shepard had sex. I liked that part."

Anyway, who knows when that scene comes around? We haven't finished the story yet. It's an objection, but not nearly as big as the massive plot holes that litter the current ending.

You guys keep digging yourselves deeper. It's friggen hilarious. IF that was Indoc., then no action was taken, therefore Starchild isn't a liar, because he never destroys anything, it's all a war for his mind. So, how could it be a dream if he actually destroys them?

 
he dreams of detroying them *facepalm    look i dont mind debating this but you dont understand indoctrination theory fully so you are argueing with false info.

this is shep dreaming up happy endings for the universe and his friends while he is dying in that rubble pile.

this is what the character wants it his brain putting him at ease...

then he wakes up....

Indoc. theory holds that the Citadel was not real. You guys then say Starchild is a liar.

I was addressing this:

"He said that we'd die in the red ending, and we don't. "

If Indoc. is true, we have NO IDEA if Shep. dies in the red ending, because we never get to see it. Game ends with Shep waking up after fighting off Indoc.

THE ENDING WE HAVE IS NOT THE TRUE ENDING.

The argument here is that if Indoc theory is NOT true, then Starchild LIED to us, since he said we were going to die if we chose red option. We don't die.
Therefore, he is a liar.
Therefore, why should we trust that anything else he says is true?
Thus, he has an ulterior motive for trying to get us not to choose the red option.
And our conclusion- Starchild is lying for some reason, some ulterior motive- which we say is because he's trying to indoctrinate us. The fact that he IS lying is beyond doubt- if the endings are real.

So to sum up:

Endings are real- Starchild is lying, he says Shep would die and she didn't. Why?
Endings are not real- Because the endings are not real, (working off this assumption), Starchild is trying to keep us from choosing the red option by telling us we're going to die, the Geth will be destroyed, etc. He is doing this in order to prevent us from choosing the red option because that is the only one that breaks the indoctrination.

Got it now?

[Tiax Rules All]

Zyrious wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Bioware did such a good job trying to trick the player at the end with thier real time indoctrination process that people cant even believe it want real. even though they purposefully fill the whole sequence with some many odd things and plot holes.

dont take it the wrong way but.. you are indoctrinated.

Bioware: yessss....yeeeesss...those weren't plotholes...it was all...a side effect..of indoctrination...obviously...i dont see why people dont see that.

Fans: What about the plotholes before that?

Bioware:...uh..*reads forums* they have it right...the effects of it slowly taking over you...infact, that's the reason for every plothole since ME1...ever since you hit the beacon on eden prime you're slowly being indoctrinated with plot holes...i mean oddities in your surroundings.

there is no plot hole for me before the ending and what i described. nobody seemed to think "the game was full of holes" before now..

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 14 mars 2012 - 11:49 .

[Zyrious]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Bioware did such a good job trying to trick the player at the end with thier real time indoctrination process that people cant even believe it want real. even though they purposefully fill the whole sequence with some many odd things and plot holes.

dont take it the wrong way but.. you are indoctrinated.

Bioware: yessss....yeeeesss...those weren't plotholes...it was all...a side effect..of indoctrination...obviously...i dont see why people dont see that.

Fans: What about the plotholes before that?

Bioware:...uh..*reads forums* they have it right...the effects of it slowly taking over you...infact, that's the reason for every plothole since ME1...ever since you hit the beacon on eden prime you're slowly being indoctrinated with plot holes...i mean oddities in your surroundings.

there is no plot hole for me before what i described. nobody seemed to think "the game was full of holes" before now..

The citadel can turn off all the relays. Why didnt they when they took control of it? They did it in every previous cycle. Repeatedly.