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[Shepard needs a Vacation]

check this article http://theparanoidga...lshit-buzzword/

[Thompson family]

IGN's decided to scold BioWare's customers afterthe consumers reacted badly to a game -- a game in which an IGN staffer appeared as a cast member.

Can't make this stuff up.

IGN has zero credibility on this or any other issue regarding ME. Letting a staff member "report" on a game when she was part of the cast showed already how deeply they've put themselves in the corporate pocket. This counter-attack on customers merely proves that, beyond selling out, they drank the Kool-Aid too.

Modifié par Thompson family, 14 mars 2012 - 11:48 .

[ShdwFox7]

LinksOcarina wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Eh...hes just another dude on a soapbox to me.

nothing against him, but when people take his stuff as gospel, I get annoyed easily since he usually has little to back it up in terms of evidence.

It doesn't matter. In an issue like this, the numbers matter, not the quality. 

In what sense then?

Numbers can be a factor in terms of things like stocks and what not, but quality of information and the interpretation of information, is key here.

What people tend to forget is that you can shape things into facts. When you prove evidence to the contrary, its hard to shape things then.  It's an old history method really of reading between the lines of things. Its easy to call out BS when people are passionate, but difficult to go against factual information and hard statistics.

Yes, however first of all, as people have already stated in this thread, he doesn't need to provide evidence for these specific arguments. You should not discredit a person for making a mistake in the past if he is correct at the moment.
Second of all, one individual with stellar evidence against something is not going to make a company such as EA waver. But a million of individuals who won't buy EA products again don't have to provide any evidence or any REASON to be a realistic threat to them as a company. That's why, in this case, numbers matter. 

You are missing the point. 

When someone brings forth an opinion on things, the problem is that the evidence behind the opinion is usually not factual. TB, for example, was wrong about the DLC stuff, and his video stating his thoughts on it was nothing but supossion that people took for gospel. 


The problem I have with guys like TB is that yeah, the opinion is fine. If a lot of people follow it, its fine. But is it fact? If what he is saying is not factual, then the opinion is moot. I hate these false analogies, but its like me saying the sky is green because its my opinion, and no one can change that. That is dangerous in a mob mentality when you put it forth and expect people to take you for your word. Then if you don't check it out or do research on things to form your own opinion, it becomes even worse. 

I know he has two shows, so maybe I am spoiled by watching the inferior show (I think its the mailbag one is where he verbally states everything is my opinion on this matter, which is good he disclaims that) , but what bothers me is he doesn't check out his facts and give updates for most of what he says, and in the end just offers more platitudes against things.

Hes a kid on a soapbox stirring the pot, but he has nothing to say with weight in the end. Its insightful and thought provoking, but it doesn't mean I should take him by his word.

The general message of the video is as factual as well as it is clear: as gamers we need to stop infighting like this and realize our business to these companies matters to them. If we want to see change in the industry we need to come together as a whole in order to put an end to shoddy business practices such as ME3's ending.

Modifié par ShdwFox7, 14 mars 2012 - 11:56 .

[LinksOcarina]

Shepard needs a Vacation wrote...

check this article http://theparanoidga...lshit-buzzword/

This part stuck out to me.

Wherein then is the gamer’s recourse? Message boards, Twitter, Youtube, Metacritic and countless other communities are often the only place that these people can go to give voice to their issues. Sometimes this happens in destructive and controversial ways, with threats of boycotts, public flaming of developers on Twitter, and occasionally even hacking. All of this is usually quite dramatic and exactly the sort of thing that the gaming media loves to report on, but they tend to criticize and paint the fans as rabid basement warriors, rather than trying to understand how a group of rational people could feel so out of options that their passion drives them to such actions in the first place. It’s no wonder that these controversies pop up left and right given that the gaming industry has a tendency to treat its fans in an adversarial manner quite unlike that of any other entertainment medium.In a netscape where developers openly call people “****ing Morons” on Twitter and casually delete complaints off official forums, why shouldn’t angry consumers bomb Amazon and Metacritic reviews? Why shouldn’t they create petitions and flood message boards with their anger? What else can they do? Besides, numerous are the petitions, lawsuits and fan movements that have brought about real changes in the way developers and publishers do business and treat their customers.

Here is the problem with this that the article doesn't point out.

1) The fans were the ones starting the entire issue. Well before the game came out, they began campaigns and protests and other things without even trying the product. Earlier in his article he uses a rather poor analogy of a person in a restraunt who was mistreated, well, twist that around for a second, what if the consumer was mistreating the client? The problem is no one knows who started it, but I seriously doubt BioWare, or any person, deserves harassment like that from people they don't know.

2) Simple really, two wrongs don't make a right. Review bombing a game and all of that just shows how petty people can be. I actually am supporting the childs play charity going on right now, that shows a lot more character than someone who decides to go on metacritic and give the game a 0  FOUR HOURS after the game was released. So once again, the issue of tactfulness is hard to cut through when one side is basically out for blood without equivocation.

And while this has nothing to do with Mass Effect, but its nothing new for BioWare. The Jennifer Hepler situation is a prime example of this. She got harassed via Twitter just for signing up on twitter. Last I checked no one should be called an "obese c*nt" just because you don't like a game. It is crap like that which makes this whole issue an entitlement to ignorance.

She didn't help when she finally replied negatively after ten days of people harassing with her, I agree on that part, that comapnies should be the better men. But once again, who started it, was it the consumer or the client?

3) Both sides are wrong in the end. This is something people also need to realize. 

[Madecologist]

ShdwFox7 wrote...

The general message of the video is as factual as well as it is clear: as gamers we need to stop infighting like this and realize our business to these companies matters to them. If we want to see change in the industry we need to come together as a whole in order to put an end to shoddy business practices such as ME3's ending.

Exactly, these problems exist in all industries, but as mentioned by both TB and even that contributer guy in Forbes, is the worst in the Game Industry. TB takes the extra step and says it is our fault too.

He is right. If people would stop going to IGN (I mean seriously stop going), and the website stops getting hits, it will get less advert money. The reason video game 'journalism' is so full poo (aside from normal journalism is not better half of the time) is they get away with it.

Same for the industry as a whole, companies get away with it. We fight amongst ourselves, and it is easy for IGN or a Company to call the fans entitleed especially if we call each other that. We don't do anything to make them realise that will loose money if they don't shape up. As TB said, these are companies, they exist only to make money. If they don't make money or we give the money to the competition, it causes them to change their strategy. The simple rule of basic compitition. That also means we need to stop accepting subpar work, be it with games as a whole or the ending of a great series.

My sister once bought a car from Ford, it had a manufacturing defect and there was a recall. The part was changed for free, and they offered a free tune up for the inconvienience. The point here is that everything was done to make sure my sister remained a happy constumer of Ford. That her next car will also be a Ford. Heck.. the tainted meat scandel of Maple Leaf in Canada... was immediately addressed with a low budget filmed commercial of the CEO apologising.

Have we ever seen a game studio ever behaving with even an once of this sort of responsibility?

[suusuuu]

I don't see anyone insulting the Bioware staff anywhere, actually. I'm starting to think the people who accuse us of being "not civil" and "rude" are delusional or on some kind of drugs. To be honest, I have never seen such a big group of united disappointed gamers to be polite to this extent. No one is even using the word "lol" anymore, everyone is wording their thoughts as well as they can. If you can't see that, I can't help you. 

Maybe there's some insult thing going on on twitter, I don't use that very much. But everywhere else? I don't see any RAGE comments like for some other games and I certainly don't see anyone insulting the staff so I have no idea why do you suddenly bring up the Jennifer Hepler issue (which, to be honest, she brought on herself really).

Modifié par suusuuu, 15 mars 2012 - 12:23 .

[Xaijin]

Thompson family wrote...

IGN's decided to scold BioWare's customers afterthe consumers reacted badly to a game -- a game in which an IGN staffer appeared as a cast member.

Can't make this stuff up.

IGN has zero credibility on this or any other issue regarding ME. Letting a staff member "report" on a game when she was part of the cast showed already how deeply they've put themselves in the corporate pocket. This counter-attack on customers merely proves that, beyond selling out, they drank the Kool-Aid too.

Pretty surreal how blatant it seems to be. Not saying that it is, but in thise case it appears cartoonishly correct.

[Xaijin]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Shepard needs a Vacation wrote...

check this article http://theparanoidga...lshit-buzzword/

This part stuck out to me.

Wherein then is the gamer’s recourse? Message boards, Twitter, Youtube, Metacritic and countless other communities are often the only place that these people can go to give voice to their issues. Sometimes this happens in destructive and controversial ways, with threats of boycotts, public flaming of developers on Twitter, and occasionally even hacking. All of this is usually quite dramatic and exactly the sort of thing that the gaming media loves to report on, but they tend to criticize and paint the fans as rabid basement warriors, rather than trying to understand how a group of rational people could feel so out of options that their passion drives them to such actions in the first place. It’s no wonder that these controversies pop up left and right given that the gaming industry has a tendency to treat its fans in an adversarial manner quite unlike that of any other entertainment medium.In a netscape where developers openly call people “****ing Morons” on Twitter and casually delete complaints off official forums, why shouldn’t angry consumers bomb Amazon and Metacritic reviews? Why shouldn’t they create petitions and flood message boards with their anger? What else can they do? Besides, numerous are the petitions, lawsuits and fan movements that have brought about real changes in the way developers and publishers do business and treat their customers.

Here is the problem with this that the article doesn't point out.

1) The fans were the ones starting the entire issue. Well before the game came out, they began campaigns and protests and other things without even trying the product. Earlier in his article he uses a rather poor analogy of a person in a restraunt who was mistreated, well, twist that around for a second, what if the consumer was mistreating the client? The problem is no one knows who started it, but I seriously doubt BioWare, or any person, deserves harassment like that from people they don't know.

2) Simple really, two wrongs don't make a right. Review bombing a game and all of that just shows how petty people can be. I actually am supporting the childs play charity going on right now, that shows a lot more character than someone who decides to go on metacritic and give the game a 0  FOUR HOURS after the game was released. So once again, the issue of tactfulness is hard to cut through when one side is basically out for blood without equivocation.

And while this has nothing to do with Mass Effect, but its nothing new for BioWare. The Jennifer Hepler situation is a prime example of this. She got harassed via Twitter just for signing up on twitter. Last I checked no one should be called an "obese c*nt" just because you don't like a game. It is crap like that which makes this whole issue an entitlement to ignorance.

She didn't help when she finally replied negatively after ten days of people harassing with her, I agree on that part, that comapnies should be the better men. But once again, who started it, was it the consumer or the client?

3) Both sides are wrong in the end. This is something people also need to realize. 

Not necessarily. Context is absolute king. Gaming is interactive storytelling. To say that the interactive part of that paradigm is functionally irrelevant is ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. It is akin to saying the ball in football does not actually matter. Not only is it fundamentally incorrect, it speaks to a lack of understanding to whom the product is actually intended for. As someone who works in gaming; my goal is not writing or producing content for me. It is for other people. I am, in fact beholden to other people, both producers and consumers alike.

While reasonableness, has indeed, gone out the window, the basis of that ire in both occasions is justified.

The simple fact and it is in fact, a fact, and not a supposition, is that to a very large majority of Mass Effect Players, the endings are unsatisfying. You can debate forever on end whether or not they are subjectively good or bad or to what degree, but the FACT they are unsatisfying is not really up for debate. Large groups of people are complaining because they purchased a product they are unsatisfied with, regardless of any other subjective or objective concerns. This a further exacerbated by the same type of thing on the MP side. People are unsatisfied with RNG unlocks and losing hundreds of dollars in BW points and hundreds of hours of character and weapon building.

BW has done very little to address these dissatisfied customers publicly.

I'm going to err on the side of rational thinking and ignorantly declare that BW did not intend to make people angry, and they are working their ass off on addressing these concerns. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't.

In any case, these concerns should be addressed with extreme consideration, because if they aren't, fans will stop paying for BioWare products. When this many copies of a product are sold, there is a set of corporate expectations levied by the publisher, and regaining trust  becomes a slope that can no longer be conquered when these things reach critical negative mass, no matter how hard you try.

I've watched companies disintegrate because of it and BioWare is not immune.

Modifié par Xaijin, 15 mars 2012 - 01:30 .

[Aleka]

Amazing find. Thank you very much for sharing. Remember folks, hold the line.

[ramdog7]

The point is EA is Corporation, they only care about profit and not if you like it. People who are defending Bioware and EA need to realize this

[Ja5ck]

I knew he'd put in his very valuable 10 cents on the issue. Good to know he's on our side.

[LilyasAvalon]

His accent is so classy~

[LolaLei]

He's spot on!

[pomrink]

good man

[Iztiak]

Good man for sure.

[paynesgrey]

This guy's spot on.

[jbajcar]

Beautifully said.

[log1x_dr4g0n]

This human understands!

[VyseN1]

Definitely agree with him. Adam Sessler liked the ending, but didn't insult others, and said he could see where we are coming from. Moriarity came across as a judgmental ******. Not saying that he is, I obviously don't know him. Just saying that is how he came across.

[Iztiak]

Definitely how he came across. Jeez, does he even read what he writes? lol