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Original Ending (Not 'Dark Energy') / Current Ending


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#1
v0rt3x22

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So - I managed to snag a copy of the original beta script that leaked back around Nov '11 (No I won't link it) - and here is what I gather:

- The current ending in the game - right down to the conversation with the Catalyst - is almost (with a few exceptions) - 1:1 on par.

The interesting thing is actually that the conversation (in my opinion) - in that version of the script is even a little simplified - but it doesn't provide any more information than we already know from the current ending in the game.

However - The Catalyst indentifies itself as a complete new being - seperate from any other race in the galaxy.

In essence (what is also explained in the actual game) - the 'Reapers' are the solution to organics creating a powerful enough AI that would be capable of destroying the 'Reapers'.

Now here's the interesting part:

Back in that version of the script (I can't actually remember if its in the actual game) - the Catalyst says that it was created to come up with that solution.

If you think about the fact that the Catalyst says it was CREATED (by someone else) - the following assumption can be made:

Whoever created the Catalyst in the first place - was such an advanced race, that it almost destroyed itself through technology - in essence - through the very 'reason' - the 'Catalyst' came up with the 'Reapers': A powerful AI.

Whether that race is still alive due to the 'Catalyst's solution - or the 'Catalyst' was simply created to come up with a solution - in order to spare other races from that same fate - is unknown.

The 'Catalyst' created the 'Reapers' (it came up with the solution of the Reapers) - so whoever created 'Starchild' actually created the Reapers - to harvest technologically advanced civilizations and store them in 'Reaper' form.

This is also why the 'Reapers' identify themselves as a 'Nation' (see ME1).

In essence - by harvesting these civilizations - The Reapers also evolve from the technology they gain from the advanced civilizations and thus - each cycle - they become stronger.

This may also explain the significance of the 'Tropical Forest' ending and the destruction of the Relays.

Civilization is thrown back to the brink (but thereby saved) - as they lose their technological advancement.

The synthesis ending in the early script - was also 'The Catalysts' ultimate solution to the 'Technology destroying civilization' problem.

In essence - the three options you're presented at the end of the game (as far as I understand) - are the three different solutions to the problem of advanced galactic society killing itself through technological advancement (supreme AI)

'Controlling' the Reapers - isn't actually one of the solutions. You just take the place of the 'Catalyst'

'Destroying' the Reapers will temporarily end the cycle - but Starchild fears that eventually a race will create an AI that will destroy all organic life. (The Reapers won't be there anymore to stop that from happening).

'Fusing with Technology' (as in the original script) - would have been Starchild's ultimate solution (perhaps what the Race did - that created Starchild)


So here are my final thoughts on the matter:

Since the script was leaked in November - that is already very far into the development cycle.

Script changes could have been done (and like I mentioned - the dialogue is (with a few exceptions) almost 1:1 on par) - but re-designing the ending significantly - is very doubtful.

Seeing how the game was in beta back then however - and given the fact that BioWare has been teasing us on Twitter with plans - I do believe that certain changes and plans were put in motion - that we don't know about.

By the way:

The script makes no mentioning of the cinematic with the Normandy, the talk between 'Anderson' and 'Shepard' after the ffight with TIM, the 'Forest', 'Stargazer' or the ending in which 'Shepard twitches'.

I'm assuming those are all new and could infact make this entire ending a cliffhanger to something else coming.

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 15 mars 2012 - 02:08 .


#2
Guest_AshleyMadelineWilliams_*

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Yeah well they screwed us over big time with the "changes" keeping the mass relays would have made me a happy puppy so that my normandy crew survived landed back on earth and not some random uncharted world. Would have also given me some hope for my Sheploo to be back with Ash ... god damn it they really took us for fools.

#3
Guest_AshleyMadelineWilliams_*

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Very sad.

Modifié par AshleyMadelineWilliams, 14 mars 2012 - 09:36 .


#4
Sunnyhat1

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AshleyMadelineWilliams wrote...

Yeah well they screwed us over big time with the "changes" keeping the mass relays would have made me a happy puppy so that my normandy crew survived landed back on earth and not some random uncharted world. Would have also given me some hope for my Sheploo to be back with Ash ... god damn it they really took us for fools.

My thoughts exactly. Being forced to detroy the mass relays is just cruel.. besides the logic error what bugs me the most.

#5
v0rt3x22

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It seems I made a mistake about the relays - its a bit sketchy.

It looks like in the destruction ending - the relays were supposed to be destroyed - but it makes no refernce for the synthesis ending.

For the control ending - it says that the cycle will just continue (as you gain control of the reapers) - so I'm assuming in that scenario the relays survive.

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 14 mars 2012 - 09:47 .


#6
BrotherFluffy

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Yeah, blowing up the Mass Relays and Joker leaving the fight are the two things I have the most problems with.

#7
Himmelstor

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BrotherFluffy wrote...

Yeah, blowing up the Mass Relays and Joker leaving the fight are the two things I have the most problems with.

These do bother me, but quite honestly in the finished product there is no excuse for the empirically incorrect justification the Catalyst had.

The entire ending, the first (and second, because I'm a fool and tried a different choice thinking there might be significant differences) time I played through had me muttering no under my breath over and over.

EDIT: That, and if it weren't for the promise of future DLC so uncaringly shoved in, it almost felt like they were throwing a Molotov cocktail at the universe so painstakingly created and running.

Modifié par Himmelstor, 14 mars 2012 - 10:07 .


#8
qdust

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Okay...if the reapers are somehow saving the galaxy from synthetics couldn't they wait until these malicious synthetics show up and kill them.

#9
v0rt3x22

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qdust wrote...

Okay...if the reapers are somehow saving the galaxy from synthetics couldn't they wait until these malicious synthetics show up and kill them.


I suppose that's something to think about.

#10
Catroi

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And I guess in this old script there was no way to tell the catalyst to **** off and show him examples like the Geth and EDI? (oh and the fact that the prothan had destroyed all their AI...)

#11
v0rt3x22

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The more I play the ending and think back about what it was supposed to be originally - the more I love it.

My very first reaction was like a lot of people - I didn't like it at all.

But that's because I didn't understand it - which a lot of people are arguing as well.

I have a quicksave now before the end and the more I play it and carefully listen and check for details - the more I actually understand the ending!

I think its great!

#12
GBGriffin

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v0rt3x22 wrote...

The more I play the ending and think back about what it was supposed to be originally - the more I love it.

My very first reaction was like a lot of people - I didn't like it at all.

But that's because I didn't understand it - which a lot of people are arguing as well.

I have a quicksave now before the end and the more I play it and carefully listen and check for details - the more I actually understand the ending!

I think its great!


Something tells me that you really aren't examing it as well as you claim.

Or, if you are, it might make sense to you, but only because you're thinking in very limited terms without considering all of the glaring plotholes.

Either way, if it makes sense to you, my argument would be that you actually aren't taking everything in to consideration. You just might like big speeches presented by awful child voice actors. =/

Modifié par GBGriffin, 15 mars 2012 - 12:30 .


#13
v0rt3x22

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GBGriffin wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

The more I play the ending and think back about what it was supposed to be originally - the more I love it.

My very first reaction was like a lot of people - I didn't like it at all.

But that's because I didn't understand it - which a lot of people are arguing as well.

I have a quicksave now before the end and the more I play it and carefully listen and check for details - the more I actually understand the ending!

I think its great!


Something tells me that you really aren't examing it as well as you claim.

Or, if you are, it might make sense to you, but only because you're thinking in very limited terms without considering all of the glaring plotholes.

Either way, if it makes sense to you, my argument would be that you actually aren't taking everything in to consideration. You just might like big speeches presented by awful child voice actors. =/


Care to elaborate? I like a healthy discussion.

#14
ninjaman001

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qdust wrote...

Okay...if the reapers are somehow saving the galaxy from synthetics couldn't they wait until these malicious synthetics show up and kill them.


that would make too much sense, besides you aren't allowed to question godchild.

#15
Jealous Beauty

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That's why dark energy makes more sense to me.

It makes even MORE sense if it's revealed that the reapers are actually at war with another ancient, super-advanced species that's been using dark energy to attack our galaxy for millions of years.  It's very similar to something from the Xeelee Sequence.

Hello ME4 and reaper-tech-enhanced Normandy. :-)

Modifié par Jealous Beauty, 15 mars 2012 - 12:54 .


#16
OriginalTibs

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v0rt3x22 wrote...

The more I play the ending and think back about what it was supposed to be originally - the more I love it.

My very first reaction was like a lot of people - I didn't like it at all.

But that's because I didn't understand it - which a lot of people are arguing as well.

I have a quicksave now before the end and the more I play it and carefully listen and check for details - the more I actually understand the ending!

I think its great!


Of course you do: You've been indoctrinated.

#17
v0rt3x22

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No it's just my opinion

#18
dfstone

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It doesn't make sense. If synthetic vs organic was the issue then why bother making peace between the geth and quarians and teaching EDI how to be alive?

From all the hints and guesses in ME2 I thought the whole thing would center around dark energy. That was implied all throughout ME2. That the reapers harvested it from living beings as a powersource or something like that. They waited until species grew smart enough to develop biotics and its like an oven timer going off...dinner's ready.

Thats what I always thought.

This whole synthetic vs organics thing just came out of nowhere.

#19
Greyhound144

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So out of left field here, was there any notes on to how much the whole "story arc" ending just was taken out of Norse Mythos Ragnarök and given a shiny sci fi universe where you get to be Odin and lead your group of Aesir to there doom/endings and re beginnings?

Because it's the only history source i can come up with that validates the ending + what's behind it as a story coming from something in our own history, real or not.

#20
v0rt3x22

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It doesn't make sense. If synthetic vs organic was the issue then why bother making peace between the geth and quarians and teaching EDI how to be alive? 


It's not Shepard's issue. It's the Catalyst's issue.

#21
v0rt3x22

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It's pretty obvious that things changed from the script and it generally looks like it was done to accommodate future plans.

#22
Dormitorius

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It was funny really, here Bioware says they're going to change the script cause it was leaked... Then they don't really do much to it at all.

Believe me when I say if they had the ability to change it all the way back in Nov. they had time to modify the ending extensively. All it would take is modification and reuse of assets for the whole game. The only real challenge would be some debug, and getting voiceovers (Possibly new character models too). Once you see how fast these people can work in things like UDK, 3DS Max, Maya, etc. you'll understand why.

Games are pretty easy to modify once they've gotten into the production. I mean you can't change the WHOLE thing obviously, but changing the ending wasn't too far fetched.

The reason I think they gave us a blanket ending was because ultimately the writers gave up. Can you imagine writing how 1,000s of possible choices will affect the ending? If they had some more time and pulled it off though... I would have to applaud them on achieving it. That final weaving of plot threads into the ending would be a literary work of art.

Modifié par Dormitorius, 15 mars 2012 - 10:16 .


#23
_Flipp_

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v0rt3x22 wrote...

It's pretty obvious that things changed from the script and it generally looks like it was done to accommodate future plans.


Whats your thought on those "future plans" ? I mean if it is some kind of DLC or Add-On it needs to be shephard related - but the ending does not leave much room for that!

#24
lucidfox

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Jealous Beauty wrote...

It makes even MORE sense if it's revealed that the reapers are actually at war with another ancient, super-advanced species

That'd just be cliche.

#25
_Flipp_

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Dormitorius wrote...
The reason I think they gave us a blanket ending was because ultimately the writers gave up. Can you imagine writing how 1,000s of possible choices will affect the ending? If they had some more time and pulled it off though... I would have to applaud them on achieving it. That final weaving of plot threads into the ending would be a literary work of art.


I do not expect them to give me so many and fancy different outcomes.
I do not expect them to give me a nice , pink , fluffy bunny , everyone is happy outcome
I do not expect them to even reflect all my choices in the outcome.
Hell I am even okay with the fact that none of my decisions mattered and I have to make some kind of ultimate decision in the end.

But what I am not okay with is that the last 10 minutes are not quite logic.
Where does Anderson come from? How the fu** did TIM get there? Why does joker bail out? How could he pick up my squad? And at last, I want to have at least some idea how all the people I saved during 100hours of gaming are doing and not just see 3 of them walking out of a crashed normandy..